Your Clubs CCS

kieran. · 01-10-2015 2:57pm #1

Whats the Lowest and Highest the CCS in your club has been this year (from the main competition tees).

Club: Rossmore GC
Lowest: 33 points
Highest: 37 points

Lowest I played in this year was a Open in New Forest the weather conditions where so bad it was reductions only.

Keano · 01-10-2015 3:50pm

I never remember it being lower than 36. Highest was 37

benny79 · 01-10-2015 4:52pm

I never see it lower than 37,

Regularly 38/39

Athy Gc

kieran. · 01-10-2015 5:03pm

benny79 wrote: »

I never see it lower than 37,

Regularly 38/39

Athy Gc

Dont think i could play a course week in week out were 40pts was necessary for a cut. The CCS on Open Thursdays during the summer on my home course was often 34/35 with last thursday being the season lowest @ 33pts. Weekend comps never any higher than 37, in the CCS fact has only been 37 once this season.

Dr_Colossus · 01-10-2015 5:07pm

Of the 20 competitions I've played on my home course (BlackBush) this year the highest was 37 and lowest 34.
The lowest all year was in Bray Golf Club during a stormy Sat where the CSS was 32pts.

Boskowski · 01-10-2015 5:24pm

Have seen between 34 and 37.

Edit: Tramore

37 on a calm day in the summer with fairways dry making the course shorter. Also when the wind blows down the par 5s the scores are usually 3 better than on other days. 34 when the wind is up and especially when its blowing across and or 'the wrong way' making the par 5s unreachable for everyone but the best. On a day like that 37 might win the comp. On a benign day I have seen 43s.
Being close to the sea makes it a windy course at times, some holes especially the longer ones are exposed to it. Blue tees make a difference too of course.

slave1 · 01-10-2015 6:27pm

kieran. wrote: »

..
Lowest I played in this year was a Open in New Forest the weather conditions where so bad it was reductions only.

I'm a member there, reductions only throughout the year because the place is set up too hard, folk leaving over it and hard on the soul to play week in week out

Senna · 01-10-2015 6:41pm

Ballybofey and Stranorlar
Lowest 33
Highest 38

Only at 33 once all year, must have been a brutal day, 37 would probably be the average

Rikand · 01-10-2015 7:05pm

Off the whites in athlone

Whites :: 36-33/33(reduction only)

Some comps are played off the yellows which is a much easier course but Im not sure what css is off it. Prob 34-37

Golfgraffix · 01-10-2015 7:08pm

Not sure the highest and lowest but I would say its 35 quite regularly

PARlance · 01-10-2015 7:22pm

kieran. wrote: »

Dont think i could play a course week in week out were 40pts was necessary for a cut. The CCS on Open Thursdays during the summer on my home course was often 34/35 with last thursday being the season lowest @ 33pts. Weekend comps never any higher than 37, in the CCS fact has only been 37 once this season.

But isn't that just physiological? If CSS is 38 then the field found it easy to score on it, so a 40 isn't as hard to achieve as another course with a lower CSS.

*It can never be an exact science because no 2 fields are ever the same or play the same. An incorrect SSS may also throw things a bit too.

Generally 34-36 in St Anne's but with the odd 33 when it's blowing a gale.

kieran. · 01-10-2015 9:13pm

slave1 wrote: »

I'm a member there, reductions only throughout the year because the place is set up too hard, folk leaving over it and hard on the soul to play week in week out

It was blowing a gale the day I was there, so I put it down to that but it is an exceptionally open (to the elements) course with very tricky green complexs. If it's reductions only all year round it must be impossible for your handicap to drift out.

Milk_Tray · 01-10-2015 9:17pm

Most of the comps at my place the winner gets 38-40, CSS 69 so really unless your top 3-5 your getting .1... tough at the best of times...

mike12 · 01-10-2015 10:03pm

Css can only be one shot easier than sss.
So if it takes 39 points to be cut the sss is high.
Css 33 in roganstown a lot of the time think 36 maybe a couple of times this year 35 will get u cut off the white tees most days.

Kingswood Rover · 02-10-2015 12:24am

Blessed lakes 33 once i think and 36.

Dr_Colossus · 02-10-2015 8:46am

slave1 wrote: »

I'm a member there, reductions only throughout the year because the place is set up too hard, folk leaving over it and hard on the soul to play week in week out

Great for your game though. Only played it the once during their scratch cups this year where unfortunately the greens were heavily sanded. Great layout and a serious challenge but can see how it could become demoralising week after week.

BigChap1759 · 02-10-2015 4:19pm

St Margaret's

Lowest - 32

Highest - 36

Hoof Hearted2 · 02-10-2015 4:32pm

slave1 wrote: »

I'm a member there, reductions only throughout the year because the place is set up too hard, folk leaving over it and hard on the soul to play week in week out

If that's the case (and I very much doubt that it is), then the course is rated incorrectly and should be reassesed ASAP for a new SSS.
Also it's a shortcoming of the people in charge of the course that the course is rated incorrectly and left go on for so long, it's not a shortcoming of the course or the course setup as you point out.

slave1 · 02-10-2015 5:59pm

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

If that's the case (and I very much doubt that it is), then the course is rated incorrectly and should be reassesed ASAP for a new SSS.
Also it's a shortcoming of the people in charge of the course that the course is rated incorrectly and left go on for so long, it's not a shortcoming of the course or the course setup as you point out.

Played 7 comps, 4 were red only and i know other members who played in what turned out to be red only too, never even knew what red only was until this year.
You're bang on with your second comment, it's the setup e.g. areas that were water hazards e.g. RHS on 5 and 6 off the tee, LHS of approach to 14 are now defined as in play which is a total joke as they are weed beds, little things like that and having to play two par 3s over 200y week in week out just wear down.
I still love the place, just hard on the soul...

BTW SSS is already 2 over par

EDIT Sunday comp just gone was Reduction only...

benny79 · 08-10-2015 2:22pm

Does your course work out the CSS by the no of players in the competition wining score and average scores and use the same formula across the board foe GUI clubs?

So if its high its high & down to the amount of players & scores or something to that effect!

Russman · 08-10-2015 2:27pm

benny79 wrote: »

Does your course work out the CSS by the no of players in the competition wining score and average scores and use the same formula across the board foe GUI clubs?

So if its high its high & down to the amount of players & scores or something to that effect!

All clubs must work it out the same way. Its done automatically by the computer. To do it manually its down to the percentage of entries within (I think) two shots of SSS, something like that anyway and when you have a table you look up the results of your workings to find the +/- if any.

Hoof Hearted2 · 08-10-2015 2:56pm

benny79 wrote: »

Does your course work out the CSS by the no of players in the competition wining score and average scores and use the same formula across the board foe GUI clubs?

So if its high its high & down to the amount of players & scores or something to that effect!

It directly relates to the number of players who hit their buffer or better relative to SSS(excluding cat 4 players(although come Jan 1st 2016 cat 4 players will be included)), after that the next biggest influence on CSS is the number of players who entered the competition.
The same formulae is used across the board for all CONGU affilated clubs and the formula is taken from appendix B Table A of the Unified Handicapping System (UHS) manual.

benny79 · 08-10-2015 3:50pm

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

It directly relates to the number of players who hit their buffer or better relative to SSS(excluding cat 4 players(although come Jan 1st 2016 cat 4 players will be included)), after that the next biggest influence on CSS is the number of players who entered the competition.
The same formulae is used across the board for all CONGU affilated clubs and the formula is taken from appendix B Table A of the Unified Handicapping System (UHS) manual.

So what I'm saying is it doesn't matter if your clubs CSS he high or low its right as they are using the above formula which is used across the board.

Would I be correct in saying that?

slave1 · 08-10-2015 6:52pm

benny79 wrote: »

So what I'm saying is it doesn't matter if your clubs CSS he high or low its right as they are using the above formula which is used across the board.

Would I be correct in saying that?

Except it can't be more than 3 shots over SSS

Hoof Hearted2 · 08-10-2015 7:37pm

benny79 wrote: »

So what I'm saying is it doesn't matter if your clubs CSS he high or low its right as they are using the above formula which is used across the board.

Would I be correct in saying that?

The CSS will be correct (because it's the same formula across the board) if the SSS is rated correctly day one.
If like has been alledeged above that most comps are R/O then the SSS is incorrect and needs to be re-rated ASAP.

benny79 · 14-10-2015 12:58pm

Lads just on your clubs CSS I was talking to a fellow member about ours the weekend and he was saying the reason ours does be so high is a lot of members dont hand their cards back in! Especially if they have a mare as they dont want a 0.1 back so this reflects back on the clubs CSS been high! He told me he brought it up at a AGM 2 years ago and it fell on deaf years.

I have noticed this is very common occurrence in my club and lads have told me you are meant to be penalised if your not returning your cards, but this obviously doesn't happen in my club.

It also works the other way were some lads wouldn't hand their card in if the have a good score as they don't want to be cut!

Anyone any experience regarding this?

Have to admit I have been guilty of not handing in the odd card myself of fear of a 0.1 back but never do it now know matter how badly I want to get cut!

Kingswood Rover · 14-10-2015 7:01pm

benny79 wrote: »

Lads just on your clubs CSS I was talking to a fellow member about ours the weekend and he was saying the reason ours does be so high is a lot of members dont hand their cards back in! Especially if they have a mare as they dont want a 0.1 back so this reflects back on the clubs CSS been high! He told me he brought it up at a AGM 2 years ago and it fell on deaf years.

I have noticed this is very common occurrence in my club and lads have told me you are meant to be penalised if your not returning your cards, but this obviously doesn't happen in my club.

It also works the other way were some lads wouldn't hand their card in if the have a good score as they don't want to be cut!

Anyone any experience regarding this?

Have to admit I have been guilty of not handing in the odd card myself of fear of a 0.1 back but never do it now know matter how badly I want to get cut!

NR's get .1 back

Hoof Hearted2 · 14-10-2015 10:38pm

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

NR's get .1 back

Only if player who no returned is entered in the HC computer, note not every club requires you to sign into the HC computer before you play.

Senna · 14-10-2015 11:54pm

I asked in my club about NR as I seen it stated that "NR gets 0.1 back" but it doesn't happen. They said NR in this cases means a blanked hole in a stroke competition gets 0.1 back and it doesn't mean a score not entered▪

Hoof Hearted2 · 15-10-2015 1:05am

Senna wrote: »

I asked in my club about NR as I seen it stated that "NR gets 0.1 back" but it doesn't happen. They said NR in this cases means a blanked hole in a stroke competition gets 0.1 back and it doesn't mean a score not entered▪

A player who fails to finish a hole in stroke is DQ'd, they can still enter a score for all holes completed, that does not amount to an NR.
As things stand at the moment in Ireland a player who meets the entry requirements of a competition and fails to return a card is considered an NR, but not all clubs require you to sign in the HC computer prior to playing, so on such occasions a player who NR's won't be considered in calculation of CSS and won't get a .1 for the NR, unless the Comp sec or appointed club administrator cross checks the sign-in sheet with the players entered into the HC computer.

benny79 · 15-10-2015 10:02am

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

Only if player who no returned is entered in the HC computer, note not every club requires you to sign into the HC computer before you play.

You don't have to sign in before a competition at my club. I usually sign in when I'm finished then sign in again & enter my scores. This is actually the way most members do it in my club anyway. Mainly down to rushing, but have never received a 0.1 back for not returning my card which is rare less I forget.

Plus there is no sign in the club house stating all cards must be returned etc which wouldn't be a bad idea!

But I would say people not returning cards or entering scores in the computer has a big effect on my home course having a high CSS.

Your Clubs CCS

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