Believing weight problems are "fine"

ford2600 · 02-07-2014 2:20pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It might not be hurtful to you but a lot of people's self confidence is linked to their perception of their body and other people's comments affects that.

The whole concept of commenting on someone's weight should be done tactfully, if oen has been asked, regardless of whether someone is overweight or underweight.

I should have added not hurtful to me! Thanks Editor

Actually I attended the fat exhibition in Trinity recently. One of the surveys was a questionnaire dealing with multiple questions on your own perception of your body type, how often you bought baggy clothes, dark clothes etc.

Some of the questions really shocked me as to how deep and personal it is for some people.

themissymoo · 08-07-2014 1:50am

Whenever my family tell me that I should lose weight, start counting my calories out loud (I have an aunt who will literally sit at the table estimating how many calories I've eaten that day) or recommend a fitness class that helped other people to lose weight, I feel under pressure to do something I don't want to. I try for a day or two but cave quickly, and then I just eat more because I'm upset.

Recently I became motivated to lose weight for myself. My friends and I are all at different ends of the spectrum. One is healthy, but recently gained weight. I am 14 stone (after gaining two stone in two years due to anxiety and stress). Another friend is probably around 300 pounds I'd estimate, although I honestly don't know. We all accept that each of us wants to lose weight. We support each other, talk about how we're doing that day in terms of calories, motivate each other to do their workouts and more. It's working because we want to do it for ourselves.

In my opinion, the way forward is by letting people become motivated themselves and giving them places to get support.

El_Dangeroso · 08-07-2014 2:32pm

themissymoo wrote: »

Whenever my family tell me that I should lose weight, start counting my calories out loud (I have an aunt who will literally sit at the table estimating how many calories I've eaten that day)

Sorry but your aunt sounds like a complete bitch.

Day Lewin · 12-07-2014 6:06pm

If you are under the delusion that "a fat person being offended at being called fat is like a smoker getting offended for being called a smoker" then you know little about your fellow citizens, or are pretending to know little about them

...but smokers are addicted, and powerfully guilted by society at large, and everyone thinks it is perfectly ok and even virtuous, to point a finger at smokers and demonise their addiction.

And heroin junkies are addicted, and we all criticise the cost to society that they cause.

So, addiction is a real thing, and calling things by their names is a real thing. So, none of this can ever justify gratuitously hurting somebody's feelings. Or interfering with their free choices...but neither should it always devolve on this issue being somehow untouchable and co-dependant, nobody daring to utter a word or have an opinion on the subject!

Surely common sense, and courtesy, can find a balance in respectful communication, when necessary. And shut up about other peoples' business, when NOT necessary.

MugMugs · 13-07-2014 4:32pm

For years I knew I had weight on but didn't see it as a real issue. Just thought that it was "a few extra pounds" friends, family partners all concurred with this thinking of mine. I thought I ate healthy and avoided carbs like the devil for some odd reason. "potatoes? Bad for you!" was my response. I filled a trough of a bowl every morning with porridge and coated it with honey because it was good for me. I didn't know the difference between a lean cut of meat and a fatty cut. Meat was meat. I ate frozen veg because it just seemed like the right thing to do and thought nothing of eating three chocolate bars a day all while doing very little exercise during the week.

Then a friend of mine who like me, shoots from the hip turned around to me in conversation and told me outright that I was fat. I was stunned. Absolutely stunned! He asked me how much longer I was going to let it go until I bothered doing something about it.

I went home that night and told my then partner. She brought me upstairs and stuck me on a scales. 6ft man, broad shoulders, well built and weighed in at 19 stone and 3 pounds. I was genuinely stunned about my weight. I was bordering 20 stone! That's the kind of weight you read about in articles on obesity. I was obese.

So I changed my attitude. I learned what foods were good for me and what weren't. Anything that crosses my lips does so in moderation and is freshly prepared by myself. I'm 16 stone and 5 pounds and falling since November last year. I was running 5k three nights a week but knocked that on the head because it was hitting my knees too much. I took up mountain biking and road biking. I walk at night if I haven't been biking. I've a good distance to go with my loss but there's serious benefits to it. So much so, I can't sleep unless I've exercised for at least an hour! I used to fall asleep in a matter of seconds of hitting the pillow.

Had it not been for that very straight talking friend of mine stating it like it was I wouldn't have done all the wonderful things that I've done this year. Dropped from a 40 waist to a 36 and for the first time in years worn a size medium shirt that actually fits me!

Tl;Dr Maybe saying it straight is exactly what obese people need to wake them up to the reality that is their life!

El_Dangeroso · 13-07-2014 4:58pm

^^^ I think your journey is to be commended. But I can't help but feel that approach would only work for a minority, and they would all be male.

Most thin women would like a lose a few pounds, so you'd find it very difficult to locate an overweight woman who didn't know about it.

queensinead · 13-07-2014 9:36pm

People should as far as possible take responsibility for their own health and well-being

But whereas smokers may get irritated by others criticising their habit, this is a whole universe away from what an obese person feels when their weight is commented on

Being fat, especially for women, can be a huge issue. They feel judged, and are often judged--in a way no smoker ever is--as unattractive, incompetent, a loser, ugly, lazy, greedy etc. Being fat is the last great taboo, the big no-no...

Real sensitivity is required around this issue, and to be honest, some of the "I speak as I find" types do not come across as having that sensitivity or the required gentle, nuanced approach.

There are busy-body officious types everywhere, curtain-twitchers who like to check that their neighbours' lawn, house-keeping, diet, children, are up to scratch, and they are never happier than when they can bustle in offering unsolicited advice or patronising these slackers "for their own good"

They love telling you: "I'm a straight talker. I tell it like it is." But try turning the tables and telling these people a few home truths about themselves, and you'll soon see that their belief in straight talking does not include listening to any criticism of themselves or their habits

Opportunities for tut-tutting over one's neighbours' adultery, poor house-keeping or ill-mannered children, have dwindled over the years

Fat people are one of the few safe targets left.

El_Dangeroso · 13-07-2014 10:13pm

queensinead wrote: »

They love telling you: "I'm a straight talker. I tell it like it is."

I love when people say that when you first meet them, it's code for 'I'm a tactless assh*le, please avoid me.'

It's a real time-saver.

Zillah · 14-07-2014 12:02pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If you've never had your weight commented on, you will never understand how it can cut into you. Not always but for a lot of people, whether they're underweight or overweight.

When I was about 13 or 14 my sister pointed out that I was getting fat and maybe I shouldn't be eating bags of sweets like I was. So I thought about it, decided she was right and stopped eating bags of sweets. It didn't even occur to me until that point that something might be wrong.

There is a growing movement in society right now - some of it implicit but some of it very deliberate - to try and convince us that fat people aren't really that fat, and that if they are then it isn't a problem, and we should all help them pretend the problem doesn't exist.

It is bad for society, it is expensive, and it is an absolutely toxic environment to be raising children. Any given person is perfectly entitled to eat themselves into an early, extra-large coffin if they like, but it is ludicrous to pretend that in a country with publicly funded healthcare, or where we care about how children are being raised, that we don't have a stake in the issue.

El_Dangeroso · 14-07-2014 12:17pm

Zillah wrote: »

When I was about 13 or 14 my sister pointed out that I was getting fat and maybe I shouldn't be eating bags of sweets like I was. So I thought about it, decided she was right and stopped eating bags of sweets. It didn't even occur to me until that point that something might be wrong.

There is a growing movement in society right now - some of it implicit but some of it very deliberate - to try and convince us that fat people aren't really that fat, and that if they are then it isn't a problem, and we should all help them pretend the problem doesn't exist.

It is bad for society, it is expensive, and it is an absolutely toxic environment to be raising children. Any given person is perfectly entitled to eat themselves into an early, extra-large coffin if they like, but it is ludicrous to pretend that in a country with publicly funded healthcare, or where we care about how children are being raised, that we don't have a stake in the issue.

Why are the only two options ignoring the problem completely or badgering and belittling people. Why the false dichotomy?

If all it took to solve the obesity crisis was to point out to people that they're eating too much and getting fat as a consequence, then the issue would be solved in the morning.

The research shows most people diet (read starve and then snap and put all the weight and more back on) their way to obesity, which means most are actually trying to eat healthier but failing and we need to find out why.

I've never seen any 'growing movement in society' that tells people that being obese is not an issue (unless you count some very fringe groups), in fact quite the opposite, it's become increasingly acceptable to berate and humiliate people who have issues with their weight, and it's making the problem worse, not better.

Alf Veedersane · 14-07-2014 12:42pm

Zillah wrote: »

When I was about 13 or 14 my sister pointed out that I was getting fat and maybe I shouldn't be eating bags of sweets like I was. So I thought about it, decided she was right and stopped eating bags of sweets. It didn't even occur to me until that point that something might be wrong.

Like I said, not everyone will react like you did. Some people get self conscious about it. Having someone else point it out to you in a very blunt way won't always have the same result and it doesn't necessarily need to end up in someone getting into extreme behaviours around food but you might be surprised how that self consciousness about weight and your body can manifest itself further down the line.

As I've said, I don't agree with telling people there isn't a problem when there is but if you feel the need to say something, just have the decency to take their feelings into account.

Zillah · 14-07-2014 1:00pm

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I've never seen any 'growing movement in society' that tells people that being obese is not an issue (unless you count some very fringe groups), in fact quite the opposite, it's become increasingly acceptable to berate and humiliate people who have issues with their weight, and it's making the problem worse, not better.

People's notion of what "obese" is is getting warped. It's ok to be fat, you're not fat fat like that guy you saw on TV. I can't count how many times I've seen friends reassure each other that their weight isn't too bad when it is actually very bad.

There's also this crowd who are generally insane, and while it hasn't reached our shores I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

I'm not advocating public berating, nor am I setting up any false dichotomies, I just object to the softly softly attitude that is becoming popular, as if acknowledging the reality of someone's weight problem - or the nation's - is being a horrible monster. I got lambasted by mutual friends once when a friend stated that they thought they were overweight and I agreed with them, as if I had inflicted some horrible wound, like I was an asshole for not toeing the line of whatever absurd egg-shell philosophy they had gotten used to.

El_Dangeroso · 14-07-2014 1:21pm

Zillah wrote: »

People's notion of what "obese" is is getting warped. It's ok to be fat, you're not fat fat like that guy you saw on TV. I can't count how many times I've seen friends reassure each other that their weight isn't too bad when it is actually very bad.

There's also this crowd who are generally insane, and while it hasn't reached our shores I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

I'm not advocating public berating, nor am I setting up any false dichotomies, I just object to the softly softly attitude that is becoming popular, as if acknowledging the reality of someone's weight problem - or the nation's - is being a horrible monster. I got lambasted by mutual friends once when a friend stated that they thought they were overweight and I agreed with them, as if I had inflicted some horrible wound, like I was an asshole for not toeing the line of whatever absurd egg-shell philosophy they had gotten used to.

I worked on a project to coach overweight people to eat healthy. Believe it or not the softly softly approach works much better than the blunt approach, in almost every situation. That is what the science is saying, but it seems there is an undercurrent of moral judgement in societies approach to obesity. Like people with weight problems are greedy or lazy or lack willpower and I can tell you this is patently not true in the majority of cases.

A little understanding goes a long way.

Zillah · 14-07-2014 2:05pm

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Believe it or not the softly softly approach works much better than the blunt approach, in almost every situation.

I can totally believe it! But you're already in the context of a project that people have joined to learn to eat healthily - you're past the hurdle of being able to broach the topic or have the person acknowledge there is a problem. There are many people that will jump to moral outrage if you do or say anything to encourage them to join such a project, for example, and lots of other people would back them up saying they are fine the way they are and who are you to judge etc. There are people who will take offense at the very idea that they are not eating healthily if they are overweight. We're developing an enabling culture when it comes to obesity.

Zillah · 14-07-2014 2:07pm

Honestly listen to some of these people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6mMpE8AaA0

El_Dangeroso · 14-07-2014 2:22pm

Zillah wrote: »

I can totally believe it! But you're already in the context of a project that people have joined to learn to eat healthily - you're past the hurdle of being able to broach the topic or have the person acknowledge there is a problem. There are many people that will jump to moral outrage if you do or say anything to encourage them to join such a project, for example, and lots of other people would back them up saying they are fine the way they are and who are you to judge etc. There are people who will take offense at the very idea that they are not eating healthily if they are overweight. We're developing an enabling culture when it comes to obesity.

That's a massive assumption you're making, most people who are overweight:

a) Know it
b) Want to do something about it

If that were not the case the diet industry would not be worth billions of euro.

Just because you can cite a couple of people who don't care that proves nothing.

We are not creating an 'enabling culture', we are creating a toxic food environment and then turning around and blaming its victims.

Zillah · 14-07-2014 2:28pm

What assumption are you referring to? I recounted observations I have made.

We can describe people as victims of an obesogenic environment if you want, but people still have willpower, and there's an increasing number of people who refuse to take responsibility for their own choices. I don't care what the environment is like or how it's contributed to your weight if you will sit there and tell me you think your obesity is genetic, or that I am a bad person for believing you would be better off losing the weight.

Alf Veedersane · 14-07-2014 2:36pm

The person that asks the question "Am I overweight?" knows the answer before they ask the question.

El_Dangeroso · 14-07-2014 2:49pm

Zillah wrote: »

What assumption are you referring to? I recounted observations I have made.

We can describe people as victims of an obesogenic environment if you want, but people still have willpower, and there's an increasing number of people who refuse to take responsibility for their own choices. I don't care what the environment is like or how it's contributed to your weight if you will sit there and tell me you think your obesity is genetic, or that I am a bad person for believing you would be better off losing the weight.

Are you not proposing that a significant minority if not a majority of overweight people either don't know they are overweight or don't care or both? That a significant contributor to the current obesity crisis is down to the fact that people are not confronted about their weight on a daily basis?

Because that is a massive red herring.

If you want to make any dent at all in obesity, you have to modify the environment. That does not mean that people don't need to take responsibility, but to say so is a truism and almost totally pointless without addressing environment.

queensinead · 14-07-2014 3:46pm

Zillah wrote: »

I can totally believe it! But you're already in the context of a project that people have joined to learn to eat healthily - you're past the hurdle of being able to broach the topic or have the person acknowledge there is a problem. B]B]There are many people that will jump to moral outrage if you do or say anything to encourage them to join such a project, for example, and lots of other people would back them up saying they are fine the way they are and who are you to judge etc.[/B[/B
There are people who will take offense at the very idea that they are not eating healthily if they are overweight. We're developing an enabling culture when it comes to obesity.

But in what context would you be encouraging people to join projects, or telling them to lose weight?

Not being a doctor or a weight-loss trainer, I cannot imagine any social situation where I would comment on another person's weight--especially not in front of others, which you seem to do, based on your "lots of other people would back them up" remark

How is their weight any business of yours?

Why are you so anxious to get them to publicly "acknowledge the problem" ?

Would you like to be called out in front of others in a public situation on some delicate personal issue in your own life which some "friend" thinks you need to acknowledge and own up to?

If you were upset and embarrassed would your other more tactful and socially clued-in friends not try to smooth over the situation? That is not necessarily "backing up" the victim. Just trying to deal with a tactless remark..

Don't we all know certain people who engage in that form of public humiliation of others,--a form of bullying.? Not that the perpetrator would ever admit to that ...

Zillah · 14-07-2014 3:52pm

I agree 100% that we need to change the environment that is causing obesity. I would be in favour of tax increases on junk food (whole debate to be had on what counts, of course) and subsidies on fresh vegetables. I'd love the government to throw funding behind an overall of the cycling infrastructure in the country to encourage people to avoid driving. Hell, even gym subsidies would be cool. But what the government does is influence by popular opinion, and the more popular opinions shift towards enabling obesity in the name of sensitivity the less likely that is to happen. I'm counting the days until a politician is accused of prejudice for advocating measures against obesity.

Regarding people and their perception of their weight: I don't think there is anyone completely in the dark of course, but there are a lot of people - people I know and plenty of accounts I've read online - where they knew they were a little overweight but it was only when confronted that it really struck them how serious it was. I've seen overweight friends argue that they're not really overweight by comparing themselves to 600lb super fats on TV. The more we perpetuate the culture of it being somehow rude or offensive to even broach the topic the more common that will become. If you watch the video above you will see some advocates arguing that obesity is not unhealthy and that is it discrimination to claim otherwise.

I'm not making any assumptions or chasing red herrings; this is all happening in the real world.

Zillah · 14-07-2014 3:58pm

queensinead wrote: »

Would you like to be called out in front of others in a public situation on some delicate personal issue in your own life which some "friend" thinks you need to acknowledge and own up to?

My friends and family used to berate me about smoking all the time. I'd feel excluded if I wanted to have a smoke around them and would feel ashamed when I came back from one. Once a friend told me I smelled like death at a party. Their criticism of my bad habit was one of the big motivating factors in giving up. There were lots of reasons for giving up, but their pressure forced me to keep the situation in perspective, it was very hard to convince myself it wasn't a big deal when I was constantly reminded how bad it was.

If I had a friend that tried to soothe my feelings, telling me I didn't smell bad and that it was my choice and my health they would have been doing my a huge disservice.

So yes, in answer to your question.

Alf Veedersane · 14-07-2014 4:15pm

Zillah wrote: »

The more we perpetuate the culture of it being somehow rude or offensive to even broach the topic the more common that will become. If you watch the video above you will see some advocates arguing that obesity is not unhealthy and that is it discrimination to claim otherwise.

Absolutely address the culture. But unless you're opinion is solicited, I'm not sure telling people they have a weight problem is not the way to do change the culture.

Zillah · 14-07-2014 4:30pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Absolutely address the culture. But unless you're opinion is solicited, I'm not sure telling people they have a weight problem is not the way to do change the culture.

I've no intention or interesting in going around to strangers commenting on their weight. But when it comes up in conversations - like when I see people comparing their own weight favourably to someone on TV, or someone that claims their own overweight state is genetic or out of their control in some other fashion - I'd like to be able to respectfully disagree without being instantly labelled a monster: You might not be morbidly obese but you're definitely overweight, and comparing yourself to someone that is 600lbs is not helpful. No, it isn't genetic, you're overweight because you eat too much food and you can make positive changes.

The culture we have right now I am expected to quietly endure these topics and essentially enable people to continue in their misconceptions.

Alf Veedersane · 14-07-2014 4:36pm

Zillah wrote: »

I've no intention or interesting in going around to strangers commenting on their weight. But when it comes up in conversations - like when I see people comparing their own weight favourably to someone on TV, or someone that claims their own overweight state is genetic or out of their control in some other fashion - I'd like to be able to respectfully disagree without being instantly labelled a monster: You might not be morbidly obese but you're definitely overweight, and comparing yourself to someone that is 600lbs is not helpful. No, it isn't genetic, you're overweight because you eat too much food and you can make positive changes.

The culture we have right now I am expected to quietly endure these topics and essentially enable people to continue in their misconceptions.

I get where you're coming from.

I'm just saying it has to be handled tactfully.

Not everyone is going to react to a comment that they're overweight the same way that you did when you were 13.

El_Dangeroso · 14-07-2014 4:45pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I get where you're coming from.

I'm just saying it has to be handled tactfully.

Not everyone is going to react to a comment that they're overweight the same way that you did when you were 13.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

I'm actually a person who responds well to criticism (if it's constructive

) and I'll act on it, it's a good motivator for me.

But I do realise I'm probably in the minority in that respect and keep blunt comments to myself where I can.

(Actually probably excepting smoking - pretty much everyone was on to me to give up, I told them if they didn't shut up I'd smoke two.

Had to cultivate my own desire to quit before I took the leap)

rachaelf750 · 14-07-2014 4:53pm

It can be complicated to communicate with people who have issues with their weight, be it over/underweight. The defensive mechanism will usually sway the conversation to make the person who is spoken about be the victim and the speaker be the aggressor.

I have learned that my opinions and thoughts are best left not said!!

I have one anecdotal story to tell which happened recently..

Daughters first blitz, man I never spoke to before who is a coach for an opposition team asked who my daughter was, I pointed her out, he said she could do with a bag of chips (to skinny) and not a minuet later he is commenting how one of the players on my child team is fond of the kitchen table.(to fat)

I left it at that as he actually may be right.

Tarzana · 15-07-2014 2:15am

Zillah wrote: »

No, it isn't genetic, you're overweight because you eat too much food and you can make positive changes.

Truthfully, what percentage of fat people you know or have witnessed on TV have ever claimed their weight was down to genetics? It's a cliché. Most people deep down know why they are overweight. There might be a thick insulating layer of denial, but they know, believe me, deep down they know.

OldNotWIse · 16-07-2014 5:03pm

Tarzana wrote: »

Truthfully, what percentage of fat people you know or have witnessed on TV have ever claimed their weight was down to genetics? It's a cliché. Most people deep down know why they are overweight. There might be a thick insulating layer of denial, but they know, believe me, deep down they know.

Believing weight problems are "fine"

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