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Fluoridation of Irish water.

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    #32
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    JJayoo wrote: »
    Nope afraid your are incorrect. Zero about ingesting fluoride into the bloodstream.

    Topical means when something is applied directly, for example you drink tap water and while the water is in your mouth the fluoride is applied topically.

    Ingested means when you swallow the water and the fluoride enters the blood stream.

    There is zero reports that demonstrate that Fluoride provides any benefit to dental teeth once it is ingested.

    Strange distinction to make what is your point? What difference does it make? You drink fluoridated tap water and your dental health improves.


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    #33
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    jh79 wrote: »
    Strange distinction to make what is your point? What difference does it make? You drink fluoridated tap water and your dental health improves.

    You're wasting time, it's like arguing with a creationist. They want evidence, then refuse to accept it when provided.


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    #34
    JJayoo
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    jh79 wrote: »
    Strange distinction to make what is your point? What difference does it make? You drink fluoridated tap water and your dental health improves.

    You were the one that stated ingesting fluoride had a benefit for dental health and you stated there were "numerous studies" Maybe you shouldn't state things as fact when you make them up.

    You seem oblivious to the fact that fluoride only provides a benefit when applied topically.


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    #35
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    JJayoo wrote: »
    You were the one that stated ingesting fluoride had a benefit for dental health and you stated there were "numerous studies" Maybe you shouldn't state things as fact when you make them up.

    You seem oblivious to the fact that fluoride only provides a benefit when applied topically.

    Ok so water fluoridation provides benefits to our dental health. Happy now.


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    #36
    JJayoo
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    fatmammycat wrote: »
    You're wasting time, it's like arguing with a creationist. They want evidence, then refuse to accept it when provided.

    The "evidence" you provided was incorrect, I am not disputing anything on the study it's just the study you posted had zero to do with the ingestion of fluoride.

    So yes when something is stated as fact I would like actual evidence and not the first google search you can copy and paste.


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    #37
    JJayoo
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    jh79 wrote: »
    Ok so water fluoridation provides benefits to our dental health. Happy now.

    No I'm waiting for the "numerous studies" you mentioned, unless you were talking out your backside.....


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    #38
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    JJayoo wrote: »
    The "evidence" you provided was incorrect, I am not disputing anything on the study it's just the study you posted had zero to do with the ingestion of fluoride.

    So yes when something is stated as fact I would like actual evidence and not the first google search you can copy and paste.

    So what point are you trying to make?


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    #39
    JJayoo
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    JJayoo wrote: »
    Ingesting fluoride has zero benefit for our teeth. So maybe we can leave the fluoride in the tap water and use it as mouthwash, and buy bottled water.

    This was my initial post. I wasn't making a point just stating a fact.

    Then you said there are "numerous studies" which is incorrect and i asked you to provide such studies, which you didn't, because you like making stuff up, just like in the last thread on this topic.


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    #40
    DanWall
    Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭DanWall


    fatmammycat wrote: »
    People can put filters on their taps if they wish to remove fluoride. Other European countries put fluoride in food and salt. As far as I know ( I am not a scientist) there is really little peer reviewed evidence that minute levels of fluoride is harmful to us and plenty to suggest it is beneficial regarding tooth decay.

    I have enquired with several companies and filters cannot remove Fluoride.


    Also I would like to reverse the thinking, if you do not want fluoride, "Don't drink the water" If you want fluoride use your Fluoride toothpaste

    I think the issue is not whether it is good or bad, it is mass uncontrolled medication without any choice. They will be putting Viagra in to the water next to give Ireland an increased younger population


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    #41
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    JJayoo wrote: »
    This was my initial post. I wasn't making a point just stating a fact.

    Then you said there are "numerous studies" which is incorrect and i asked you to provide such studies, which you didn't, because you like making stuff up, just like in the last thread on this topic.

    So you caught a couple of posters with a trick question , why?


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    #42
    dgerryd
    Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭dgerryd


    Sorry for disrupting your debate, but can I ask why people keep referring to fluoride as "medication" where did that term come from. ?


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    #43
    sea_monkey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 755 ✭✭✭sea_monkey


    dgerryd wrote: »
    Sorry for disrupting your debate, but can I ask why people keep referring to fluoride as "medication" where did that term come from. ?

    No idea. It's like getting mad at vegetables which have had dung added to them for extra minerals for health benefits.


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    #44
    dgerryd
    Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭dgerryd


    LoL Where could I pick up those there dung-vegetables your referring to.


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    #45
    sea_monkey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 755 ✭✭✭sea_monkey


    dgerryd wrote: »
    LoL Where could I pick up those there dung-vegetables your referring to.

    every single supermarket


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    #46
    robbok
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭robbok


    The Guardian stating what we all know

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/04/04/anything-good-in-the-guardian/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=web&utm_content=most_commented

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2014/apr/04/politicians-anti-fluoridation-campaigners-fluoride-water

    “Research into the mindsets of anti-vaccination campaigners suggests that they tend to exhibit traits such as conspiratorial thinking, reasoning flaws, a reliance on anecdote over data and low cognitive complexity in thinking patterns.”

    “Similar traits are seen in the anti–fluoride movement, with similar mistrust of health interventions. It may not be a coincidence that the current drive against fluoride in Ireland emanates from West Cork, a region of the country with an extremely low vaccine uptake that has been the epicentre of recent measles outbreaks.”


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    #47
    Treora
    Registered Users Posts: 376 ✭✭Treora


    That was an opinion piece by a non-field specialist.

    This is a little science
    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/feb/09/medicalresearch.health


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    #48
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,322 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    corkonion wrote: »
    I posted on this in the Cork forum, but thought it may be of interest here.

    Cork County Council, the country's largest local authority ,
    has voted for the fluoridation of Irish water to end.
    Yesterday's motion was proposed by Clonakilty based
    Councillor Christopher O Sullivan, while councillors also received
    an open letter from the West Cork Fluoride Free campaign.
    The campaigners believe there are links between fluoride ,
    and a number of illnesses and diseases.
    Over the last two years, six West Cork councils have voted for the
    immediate cessation of the fluoridation of the public water supply.
    The motion was unanimously passed by all of the councillors present.

    I personally resent being forced to consume a chemical that has some very worrying results in regard to brain development.

    http://fluoridealert.org/studies/brain03/

    Fluoride was added to our water to fight tooth decay decades ago, but the rest of europe get to drink chemical free water with no sign of having any worse dental health than us.
    What level of education have you? Need to see what qualifies you to make statements and assess information


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    #49
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,322 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    flyingdoctor72 wrote: »
    Even if, for whatever reason, you believe there is nothing wrong with ingesting chemicals everybody should at least have the choice of not doing so if they so wish. However, there really doesn't appear to be any valid argument of ADDING toxic chemicals to our water supply.

    Here is some information on fluoride with a list of academic sources (I did see a more in-depth article somewhere but can't find it right now:

    http://www.trueactivist.com/15-facts-most-people-dont-know-about-fluoride/
    Plenty if things you put in your mouth are toxic. But when they are diluted as much as fluoride is they are not harmful.


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    #50
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,216 ✭✭✭jh79


    Some articles on the effectiveness of fluoridation.

    http://www.bfsweb.org/news/New%20Studies%202013/Fluoridation%20news%20-%20Analysis%20of%20post-1990%20studies.pdf

    http://www.bfsweb.org/news/New%20Studies%202013/Fluoridation%20News%20-%20Study%20of%2011%20to%2013-year%20olds%20in%20Newcastle%20and%20Manchester.pdf

    http://www.bfsweb.org/news/Aus%20and%20NZ/NZ%20survey%20on%20dent%20benefits%202012.pdf

    http://www.bfsweb.org/news/Aus%20and%20NZ/Fluoridation%20News%20-%20Australian%20study%20of%20adults.pdf


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    #51
    robbok
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭robbok


    Thanks Treora, you dismiss one opinion piece with another opinion piece ?
    I love the Bad Science Series in the Guardian but the clue is in the name , it was a somewhat tongue in cheek article and the main point Dr Benacre was making was in his opinion
    "The reality is that anyone making ANY confident statement on fluoride speaks way beyond the evidence."
    That seems to catch both pro and anti arguments
    That is his opinion but it is not in any way scientific


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    #52
    Gbear
    Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    Water is a chemical :(


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    #53
    JJayoo
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    Fluoride builds up in the Pineal Gland. This Gland is located outside the blood brain barrier and so the fluoride can gain access. This was discovered 2001. Does it interfere with the function of the Pineal Gland? No one knows because no research was ever done on whether or not it interferes with the function of the gland.


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