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DART fines process. Please help!

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    #32
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    lee711 wrote: »
    get over yourself, if you were my age you would be doing the exact same thing. Money doesn't exactly grow on trees and being charged 3.05 for a one way 25 minute train journey is beyond ridiculous

    plus as I have said before, by law I am a child, yet the public transport systems in this country think I'm an adult, and can conveniently charge me adult fare.

    No i wouldnt. I think its a case of being a child when it suits . In general,when you are out and about, would you prefer to be treated as an adult or as a child?


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    #33
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    lee711 wrote: »
    get over yourself, if you were my age you would be doing the exact same thing. Money doesn't exactly grow on trees and being charged 3.05 for a one way 25 minute train journey is beyond ridiculous

    plus as I have said before, by law I am a child, yet the public transport systems in this country think I'm an adult, and can conveniently charge me adult fare.

    This attitude is why Ireland is in the mess it is in.


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    #34
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    lee711 wrote: »
    I panicked and gave someone else's name and address.

    Panicked but yet you were cool enough and quick thinking enough to pick a friend and rattle of an address.

    Your friend is about to be dropped into a lot of hassle. He'll have to waste his time and deal with this which could involve him/her going to court.

    I would ring IR explain the situation and take responsibility for your actions.
    (even though I don't agree with the fact that the Dart ticketing system classes anyone over 16 as an adult , yet the government and basically everyone else classifies anyone over 18 as adult. Serious lack of logic going on there)

    I guess you knew this when you purchased the ticket. How IR classify an adult is quite common across transport systems and plenty of other organisations don't define an adult as being aged 18+.


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    #35
    Zander1983
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭Zander1983


    This morning I bought a DART ticket in Drumcondra station on my way to Pearse station, but at Pearse station I was stopped and handed a 100 euro fine for travelling with a child ticket. I almost never take the Dart but my bike was punctured and I was in a rush to get to work early so took it this time. I'm almost certain I choose an Adult ticket in Drumcondra station. I remember thinking 1.15 euro was cheap but thought no more of it and got on the train. I was apoplectic when handed a fine. I have a good job, through which I pay vast taxes, and clearly either:

    (a) made a mistake rather than intentionally screwing Irish Rail out of about 1 euro

    or

    (b) the machine in Drumcondra malfunctioned as I have never pressed "child" by accident before

    Security kept me for 20 minutes because it took me ages to prove my address (my phone was dead).

    What is incredibly annoying is the lack of common sense shown by Irish Rail security. Clearly, in my case, either (a) or (b) above applied and a fine was unjust. Instead, they handled the situation like a smug bunch of paid bullies, clearly delighted to have caught someone who had accidentally broken a rule. They seem incapable of employing what should be standard for any public servant - good sense and sound judgement.

    Clearly, Irish Rail security are spending all their resources trying to catch people who may not have the right ticket - last week during the good weather, trains were predictably delayed due to vandalism and when it did arrive, was full of teenagers drinking heavily. Not a security guard to be seen.

    I'm going to appeal this on the basis that I'm pretty sure I selected Adult on the machine (I will request CCTV footage).

    Someone above pointed out Irish Rail staff read this forum. I hope so. Here's my message: try to do your bloody job while employing just a little bit of common sense for Christ's sake.


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    #36
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    Try see it from their perspective. I'm sure it seems obvious to you it was a mistake or malfunction, but they hear that excuse hundreds of times a day I'm sure, and I'm sure it sounds just as sincere.
    Look on the bright side- you won't make the same mistake again :)


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    #37
    Zander1983
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭Zander1983


    TheBandicoot wrote: »
    Try see it from their perspective. I'm sure it seems obvious to you it was a mistake or malfunction, but they hear that excuse hundreds of times a day I'm sure, and I'm sure it sounds just as sincere.
    Look on the bright side- you won't make the same mistake again :)

    My problem is:

    1/ Security show no common sense and clearly gloat when handing out fines
    2/ Spend too much time at stations on work day mornings catching people off to earn money to pay taxes
    3/ Ignore drinking on trains
    4/ Ignore the many drug addicts on LUAS's red line

    In short, they are an incompetent bunch of cowards who do nothing to tackle actual problems with rail travel in Dublin.


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    #38
    highnc
    Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭highnc


    Zander1983 wrote: »
    My problem is:

    1/ Security show no common sense and clearly gloat when handing out fines
    2/ Spend too much time at stations on work day mornings catching people off to earn money to pay taxes
    3/ Ignore drinking on trains
    4/ Ignore the many drug addicts on LUAS's red line

    In short, they are an incompetent bunch of cowards who do nothing to tackle actual problems with rail travel in Dublin.



    that will help your appeal!!

    in a day or two, when the dust settles, you'll realise you made a mistake (honest as it may be) and they were just applying the rules...they probably hear loads of excuses daily but at the end of the day it's the passenger's repsonsibility to have the correct ticket...regardless of vast taxes paid :)


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    #39
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    When you say security, who do you mean? Irish Rail Revenue Protection staff, or the actual security, the hired in big guys in stabproof vests? I assume you mean the former, the latter would not be around in the morning.
    Zander1983 wrote: »
    1/ Security show no common sense and clearly gloat when handing out fines
    Common sense is subjective. I suspect what you see as common sense, is actually just wanting favourable treatment.
    If they were 'gloating', fair enough, you have a valid complaint there about conduct. But I suspect given you were 'apoplectic' yourself at the time, your recollection might be coloured.
    2/ Spend too much time at stations on work day mornings catching people off to earn money to pay taxes
    Too much? How do you define that? What difference does it make if people are off to pay taxes or to go drink in a park all day? You have to have a ticket either way.. It's not like white collar professionals don't try to evade fares too(they most certainly do). Morning peak is when there are more people using the system, so it follows there would be more possible fare evasion, so surely that is a good time to be vigilant? What a bizarre point.
    3/ Ignore drinking on trains
    That is security's job, not revenue protection- it is not a case of them either checking tickets or dealing with drinking. However I have seen security tell people to leave drink behind many times when getting on trains. Depends on security being there of course, and they can't be everywhere at once. Perhaps if less adults traveled on child tickets there would be more money to hire more of them :D
    4/ Ignore the many drug addicts on LUAS's red line
    What does that have to do with Irish Rail?:confused:
    In short, they are an incompetent bunch of cowards who do nothing to tackle actual problems with rail travel in Dublin.
    Charming. Also, on-the-ground staff are the lowest rung with the least power to tackle an problems.


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    #40
    Zander1983
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭Zander1983


    @TheBandicoot

    Do you think a 100 euro fine for travelling from drumcondra to pearse st (about 6 minutes) on an accidentally purchased child ticket which would have saved me, and cost irish rail, about 1 euro is fair? I know those are the rules, but are the rules fair? This scenario is absolutely absurd!


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    #41
    circular flexing
    Registered Users Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    Zander1983 wrote: »
    @TheBandicoot

    Do you think a 100 euro fine for travelling from drumcondra to pearse st (about 6 minutes) on an accidentally purchased child ticket which would have saved me, and cost irish rail, about 1 euro is fair? I know those are the rules, but are the rules fair? This scenario is absolutely absurd!

    The fine is designed to act as a deterrent to fare evasion in the future.

    Maybe you made a genuine mistake, or maybe you've been travelling on child tickets for years and not getting caught (not saying you have but that's how the RUI people see it).

    In any case, I'm sure you will be more careful about what ticket you buy next time because of the fine.


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    #42
    Tom2
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭Tom2


    If you've calmed down, could I put three questions to you:

    First - Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that somebody else (and certainly not you) was in the habit of buying a child ticket every day so as to evade half the fare. For as long as they got away with it, commuting in and out of work every day, they'd be defrauding Irish Rail of at least a tenner a week and helping to push everyone's fares higher than they needed to be. Would you not agree that a fine of €100 would be reasonable if and when they were caught?

    Second - Let's say, again just for the sake of argument, that when they were eventually caught they claimed that it was the first time it had ever happened and they must have made a mistake in their hurry to buy a ticket. Do you honestly believe that should be sufficient grounds to let them get away with it?

    Third - How are the Revenue Protection people supposed to be able to distinguish between the genuine mistake you made and the deliberate and persistent evasion described above?

    I used to park in a pay-parking rail station and on just one occasion forgot to go to the machine and get a ticket. Needless to say, I was clamped when I got back that evening. Of course I was apopleptic at having to pay a release fee (I think it was €120) but I also realised it was entirely due to my own mistake and it made me damn careful never to let it happen again.


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    #43
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,753 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Would'nt bother paying the fine, see if ye can get away with it.


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    #44
    Zander1983
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭Zander1983


    Tom2 wrote: »
    If you've calmed down, could I put three questions to you:

    First - Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that somebody else (and certainly not you) was in the habit of buying a child ticket every day so as to evade half the fare. For as long as they got away with it, commuting in and out of work every day, they'd be defrauding Irish Rail of at least a tenner a week and helping to push everyone's fares higher than they needed to be. Would you not agree that a fine of €100 would be reasonable if and when they were caught?

    Second - Let's say, again just for the sake of argument, that when they were eventually caught they claimed that it was the first time it had ever happened and they must have made a mistake in their hurry to buy a ticket. Do you honestly believe that should be sufficient grounds to let them get away with it?

    Third - How are the Revenue Protection people supposed to be able to distinguish between the genuine mistake you made and the deliberate and persistent evasion described above?

    I used to park in a pay-parking rail station and on just one occasion forgot to go to the machine and get a ticket. Needless to say, I was clamped when I got back that evening. Of course I was apopleptic at having to pay a release fee (I think it was €120) but I also realised it was entirely due to my own mistake and it made me damn careful never to let it happen again.

    Clearly, there should be levels of offenses and first offense, second offense etc. One blanket fine is ridiculous. It's not like these things are hard to implement. 99% of people have the proper ticket so the staff are twiddling their thumbs most of the time, antsy to jump on any mistake from a customer. At the end of the day, this is appalling customer service.


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    #45
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,562 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Zander1983 wrote: »
    Clearly, there should be levels of offenses and first offense, second offense etc. One blanket fine is ridiculous. It's not like these things are hard to implement. 99% of people have the proper ticket so the staff are twiddling their thumbs most of the time, antsy to jump on any mistake from a customer. At the end of the day, this is appalling customer service.

    Whether you like it or not, this is now pretty much standard practice across all transport operators be they here, in the UK or on the continent.

    They do not have the time to be differentiating between first/second/later offenders - believe it or not the levels of fare evasion have been quite significant.

    Since the zero tolerance approach was adopted, significant numbers of fines have been issued.

    Unfortunately for you, I really think you're just going to have to take this on the chin as one of life's learning experiences.

    Irish Rail have been very clear in their notices on this:
    http://www.irishrail.ie/media/fixedpenaltydlleaflet1.pdf


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    #46
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Its always and "Accident" when you get caught and their fault, but never the persons fault for not checking what they were buying before paying for it. No sympathy.


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    #47
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Zander1983 wrote: »
    This morning I bought a DART ticket in Drumcondra station on my way to Pearse station, but at Pearse station I was stopped and handed a 100 euro fine for travelling with a child ticket. I almost never take the Dart but my bike was punctured and I was in a rush to get to work early so took it this time. I'm almost certain I choose an Adult ticket in Drumcondra station. I remember thinking 1.15 euro was cheap but thought no more of it and got on the train. I was apoplectic when handed a fine. I have a good job, through which I pay vast taxes, and clearly either:

    (a) made a mistake rather than intentionally screwing Irish Rail out of about 1 euro

    or

    (b) the machine in Drumcondra malfunctioned as I have never pressed "child" by accident before

    Security kept me for 20 minutes because it took me ages to prove my address (my phone was dead).

    What is incredibly annoying is the lack of common sense shown by Irish Rail security. Clearly, in my case, either (a) or (b) above applied and a fine was unjust. Instead, they handled the situation like a smug bunch of paid bullies, clearly delighted to have caught someone who had accidentally broken a rule. They seem incapable of employing what should be standard for any public servant - good sense and sound judgement.

    Clearly, Irish Rail security are spending all their resources trying to catch people who may not have the right ticket - last week during the good weather, trains were predictably delayed due to vandalism and when it did arrive, was full of teenagers drinking heavily. Not a security guard to be seen.

    I'm going to appeal this on the basis that I'm pretty sure I selected Adult on the machine (I will request CCTV footage).

    Someone above pointed out Irish Rail staff read this forum. I hope so. Here's my message: try to do your bloody job while employing just a little bit of common sense for Christ's sake.

    Try that one before putting money in the machine and buying the right ticket.


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    #48
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Zander1983 wrote: »
    My problem is:

    1/ Security show no common sense and clearly gloat when handing out fines
    2/ Spend too much time at stations on work day mornings catching people off to earn money to pay taxes
    3/ Ignore drinking on trains
    4/ Ignore the many drug addicts on LUAS's red line

    In short, they are an incompetent bunch of cowards who do nothing to tackle actual problems with rail travel in Dublin.

    Is that because you got fined?


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    #49
    Zander1983
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭Zander1983


    @Hilly Bill

    I can see you're very helpful around these parts


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    #50
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #51
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Zander1983 wrote: »
    @Hilly Bill

    I can see you're very helpful around these parts

    Thanks, i do my best.


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    #52
    Tom2
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭Tom2


    Zander1983 wrote: »
    Clearly, there should be levels of offenses and first offense, second offense etc. One blanket fine is ridiculous. It's not like these things are hard to implement. 99% of people have the proper ticket so the staff are twiddling their thumbs most of the time, antsy to jump on any mistake from a customer. At the end of the day, this is appalling customer service.

    Not an answer to any of the questions I asked you, though!


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