Irish Rail derails plans for Wi-Fi on trains

aliveandkicking · 21-05-2008 4:13pm

kearnsr wrote: »

What the higlighted points are your counter points?
It was trialled in 2003.

First class passegners get free wifi?

Increase in profits

and modal shift?

How does that add perspective?

The only thing that relates to a normal day to day passenger which would make up a large percentage of people using trains the only thing that relates to it is modal shift. Modal shift can be encouraged in some many different ways the most effecitve being an efficeint service with relevant up to date and easy to obtain information.

We are backwards becasue Irish Rail isnt going to provide wifi?

No the whole article is a counter point. The highlighted bits are just the bits I think are most relevant.

2003 was five years ago. Now five years later IE have only just begun thinking about it and have decided they can't be bothered. Meanwhile the rest of europe have just got on with it.

First class passengers getting free wifi encourages more passengers to upgrade to first class which is where the real money is for IE. For the initial investment IE would get an increase in the % of first class passengers per train forever.

The resulting increase in profits would be a good thing - no?

Wifi on trains would give IE a competitive advantage over short haul flying, Bus Eireann and the private car thus encouraging a modal shift away from the most polluting forms of transport towards the most environmentally friendly - again a good thing.

These points add perspective to the first few pages of this thread where you engaged in childish arguing over the wording of a sentence and argued for the sake of arguing rather than have a proper discussion about the merits or otherwise of wifi on trains.

Having wifi on trains and an efficient service are not mutually exclusive. You can have both. Again everyone else seems to be managing it so why can't IE?

When IE introduced online ticketing and seat reservation years after the rest of europe, were you arguing that the money should have been spent elsewhere? If so do you still have the same opinion?

OTK · 21-05-2008 4:47pm

Would a cheap 3g data card not do the same thing? Three mobile sell a data card for 129. You pay a fiver any day you use it. There's not much point in IE providing a service if they can't beat that.

godtabh · 21-05-2008 5:09pm

aliveandkicking wrote: »

First class passengers getting free wifi encourages more passengers to upgrade to first class which is where the real money is for IE. For the initial investment IE would get an increase in the % of first class passengers per train forever.

What percentage of perople use first class now? Very few compared to the rest of the ticket types. In a day and age were times are getting hard lower fares and being more competive is the way to go. Ryanair have tried using things like film on board as an enstiive to constumers. It didnt work and they dont do it any more. Its a luxury alot of people arent willing to pay for.

aliveandkicking wrote: »

These points add perspective to the first few pages of this thread where you engaged in childish arguing over the wording of a sentence and argued for the sake of arguing rather than have a proper discussion about the merits or otherwise of wifi on trains.

Plenty of opportunity was given to clear up the situation. It wasn't. I simply asked the question.

There are arguments for and against. Many people who posted here arent willing to listen the counter argumnet.

Having wifi on trains and an efficient service are not mutually exclusive. You can have both. Again everyone else seems to be managing it so why can't IE?

They arent mutually exclusive but when money is being diverted from one side to another one will suffer when budgets are limited.

IE can barley manage to get the trains to run on time. Get that right then we can worry about what every one else is doing.

When IE introduced online ticketing and seat reservation years after the rest of europe, were you arguing that the money should have been spent elsewhere? If so do you still have the same opinion?

Online ticketing and seat reservation is directly related to an efficent service. There is no comparison to wifi.

Do you get my the point? spend money on improving the running of the trains not spending money on something that at best is a luxury that most people could easily do without

Rawr · 21-05-2008 7:53pm

I think the real issue here is the attitude of IE, but also it seems, the way the Internet is sometimes perceived.

Long gone are the days where the web was just a thing of email and websites, it has also now become an important tool of business and life in general. In Business, things are now of VPNs, emails, reports and such. In general life, there are so many things, from the news, to booking Ryanair flights, hell..even this place

If you are able to avail of this tool while riding the train for a few hours, then that can only be a plus, which will make life easier. Even if it is just by a little bit. We have the technology, it can be done.

But this brings me back to IE's attitude. There are many things about our national rail service which needs to be sorted out. The Maynooth info signs are case in point. They have been there for ages, but have never been active along near 90% of this line. Such a small thing such as knowing when the train is coming would make life easier for commuters. But this project seems to have been left aside by IE. Commuters have been left to make do.

I am not saying that IE don't try to make an efficient service, they even pull it off sometimes, and some stations & trains are pretty good. But really, the attitude shouldn't be just to 'make do' and have a just ok service. IE should be gunning for a world-class service like some of our friends in Europe. Anyone who has taken the train in Germany will know that it's a pure joy to travel on their rail network. It's not perfect, but you know that they have made an effort.

In the end that's what counts. IE's attitude should be to make the effort whenever possible, instead of just making do.
/rant

Ham'nd'egger · 22-05-2008 12:06am

Rawr wrote: »

I think the real issue here is the attitude of IE, but also it seems, the way the Internet is sometimes perceived.

Long gone are the days where the web was just a thing of email and websites, it has also now become an important tool of business and life in general. In Business, things are now of VPNs, emails, reports and such. In general life, there are so many things, from the news, to booking Ryanair flights, hell..even this place

If you are able to avail of this tool while riding the train for a few hours, then that can only be a plus, which will make life easier. Even if it is just by a little bit. We have the technology, it can be done.

But this brings me back to IE's attitude. There are many things about our national rail service which needs to be sorted out. The Maynooth info signs are case in point. They have been there for ages, but have never been active along near 90% of this line. Such a small thing such as knowing when the train is coming would make life easier for commuters. But this project seems to have been left aside by IE. Commuters have been left to make do.

I am not saying that IE don't try to make an efficient service, they even pull it off sometimes, and some stations & trains are pretty good. But really, the attitude shouldn't be just to 'make do' and have a just ok service. IE should be gunning for a world-class service like some of our friends in Europe. Anyone who has taken the train in Germany will know that it's a pure joy to travel on their rail network. It's not perfect, but you know that they have made an effort.

In the end that's what counts. IE's attitude should be to make the effort whenever possible, instead of just making do.
/rant

Hear hear. It would be nice to have it but it is the least of our worries for now.

Yoda · 22-05-2008 12:14am

kearnsr wrote: »

Exactly.

I don't understand why people bitch and moan about something as trivial as wifi on a train when there are much more important issues at hand.

OP who many times would you use the train and how often would you have used the wifi?

I was in Scotland once and there was wifi on the train. What a pleasure! And me a lowly tourist too!

I don't go to Portland, Oregon airport often, but when I do, there is free wifi. They get it. They understand that travel is long and boring and upsetting and tiresome and they offer free wifi.

Hong Kong does. Singapore does. They are civilized.

Seattle doesn't. Dublin sure as heck doesn't. They insist on making money off of travellers. Bah.

Ireland, in general, does about as little as it possibly could to make travel here attractive. Blinkered, in my view.

Yoda · 22-05-2008 12:17am

Mind you I'd be happier if the catering on CIÉ weren't so abysmal, too. The coffee and tea they serve is disgusting. In Germany they serve real coffee. :-(

Eric Cartman · 22-05-2008 12:34am

i think IE will eventually come back to it,

in other news heres what i saw on the train today : http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pidgeontraincopypo1.jpg

parsi · 22-05-2008 4:30pm

I'm not that pushed about wifi on the train. Perhaps it would be better if Voda and the like realised that if they had masts to covers the lines then they could take the market that is supposedly out there and then well IE would be saved the grief of disgruntled folk who cannot connect to their wifi etc etc.

I'm not sure what the extent of this is in other countires. I'm sure we can all point to a flagship service somewhere that has had gazillions pumped into it (did someone mention the new AVE line in Spain) but generally what is the situation ?

I've taken the TGV from Paris to Lux a few times and for your first class money you get a bigger seat. That's it. No wifi. In a few places no mobile signal. Then again it is damn fast and oh so smooth...

mayhem# · 06-06-2008 12:16pm

I've discussed the topic extensively here:

http://tinyurl.com/62rpby & http://tinyurl.com/6b9e3d

Long story short is that it has been done, the demand is there and it doesn't have to costs Irish Rail anything.
The topic made it on to the Last Word show on Today FM yesterday. Let's see how it goes...

E.

dmeehan · 16-06-2008 1:03pm

There's an article in ENN today about this. Looks like some guy is going to offer it to Irish Rail for free. http://www.enn.ie/article/10124507.html

paulm17781 · 16-06-2008 1:07pm

dmeehan wrote: »

There's an article in ENN today about this. Looks like some guy is going to offer it to Irish Rail for free. http://www.enn.ie/article/10124507.html

Aren't they great. :rolleyes: They clearly didn't even consider things like this when they decided against implementing it.

Red Alert · 16-06-2008 2:28pm

Another example of the general malaise that seems to be in Irish Rail from the top down. Sure didn't they spec out the 'flagship' Mk4's without laptop power sockets?

trap4 · 16-06-2008 4:21pm

dmeehan wrote: »

There's an article in ENN today about this. Looks like some guy is going to offer it to Irish Rail for free. http://www.enn.ie/article/10124507.html

"Some guy" would be Evert Bopp, posting as mayhem# above

popebenny16 · 16-06-2008 4:31pm

Yes, when I'm sitting with my knees against a toilet door, beside someone else doing the same, in a vestiuble shared with seven others, with another six in the next one and five standing the end ends of the carraiges - all the way from Thurles to Dublin - and all because IE booked out two carraiges, one to a school and one to an OAP outing (even though the site said no seats were booked

).... I'll so soooooo glad I'll have my wifi connection.......

Victor · 16-06-2008 8:13pm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0616/wifi.html

Iarnród Éireann offered free Wi-Fi network
Monday, 16 June 2008 16:09

An Offaly-based technology company has offered to install a Wi-Fi network on Irish trains for free.

AirAppz is offering Iarnród Éireann a Wi-Fi network for passengers to use on their laptops, PDAs and mobile phones.

While there would be no cost for Iarnród Éireann, customers would most likely have to pay to surf.

The firm's Chief Executive, Evert Bopp, said passengers could use the service for around €1 an hour or pay a monthly unlimited subscription of €29.

Mr Bopp said his company is ready to roll out the service if it were given the go ahead.

There are several methods for delivering a Wi-Fi service to a moving train, but Mr Bopp said using existing fibre optic cables that run alongside main rail lines is the best solution.

By placing receivers on the trains to pick up the signal and repeaters along the tracks, Mr Bopp said a 2mb per second connection is possible. If the fibre optic option is not viable AirAppz has suggested a 3G network or a satellite connection.

AirAppz would make money from the venture through location-based advertising and ads would change each time the train passed a new station.

Iarnród Éireann spokesman Barry Kenny said it is planning to meet with AirAppz about the proposal.

Mr Kenny said it has had approaches similar to this one in the past, but cost has been the recurring issue.

'If it is beneficial to us and our customers we would consider it,' Mr Kenny said.

However, if AirAppz proposal is deemed viable, Mr Kenny said the contract would have to go to open tender.

Canada and several states in the US including California, Washington and New Mexico have installed Wi-Fi on their public transportation systems.

On the Iarnród Éireann website's Frequently Asked Question section, the company says it is not in the public's best interest to install the current wireless technologies for its customers to use on board its trains.

'Anything we install now is likely to be completely redundant within five years,' the website says.

Instead it advises passengers to obtain their own wireless solutions through mobile providers.

Mr Kenny said Iarnród Éireann has not put money into Wi-Fi because its priority is investing in more trains.

daymobrew · 17-06-2008 9:11am

All opinions can be given to the IR Management tomorrow at Heuston.
http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=391

Meet the Managers at Heuston Station on Wednesday 18th June 2008

Over the coming months Iarnród Éireann will be continuing its programme of face to face meetings of management team and customers.

The next of these meetings will take place in Heuston Station on Wednesday 18th June 2008.

Mr. Ciaran Masterson, Regional Manager for Mainline (Heuston and Cork Districts), along with his management team, will be available to meet customers on the afternoon of Wednesday 18th June 2008 between 4.30pm and 6.30pm at Heuston Station Concourse.

Customers are invited to come along and discuss issues of interest or concern to them with the management team.

monument · 17-06-2008 6:19pm

popebenny16 wrote: »

Yes, when I'm sitting with my knees against a toilet door, beside someone else doing the same, in a vestiuble shared with seven others, with another six in the next one and five standing the end ends of the carraiges - all the way from Thurles to Dublin - and all because IE booked out two carraiges, one to a school and one to an OAP outing (even though the site said no seats were booked ).... I'll so soooooo glad I'll have my wifi connection.......

You could send an email to the letters section of the Irish Times or the paper of your choice.

Frester · 23-06-2008 3:02pm

They could jsut research a bit. Wifibre is the new 1Gbps Wireless internet being tested. Before they didn't think it would be possible to get 1Gbps Wireless internet! So I doubt they can improve THAT much on that within the next 5 years. I feel they are just trying to make excuses to make themselves seem like real Business People! E.g. One person could say Wireless Internet but the other one would say "But you have to see the long term cost!" or something stupid like that!

Irish Rail derails plans for Wi-Fi on trains

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