21st Century Railway - RTÉ 1

The Idyl Race · 16-11-2012 12:10am

Sell the whole shooting match to DB or SNCF for a euro and give them a free hand.

That's the only logical solution.

dowlingm · 18-11-2012 4:28pm

Who says DB and SNCF want it, even for a euro? An organisation which is subject to political interference where every jumped out councillor and fantasist gets space in the papers to demand this or that, with significant industrial relations challenges, a continuing capital requirement and huge pension funding requirements?

But let's do the boards.ie thing and pretend all that can be wished away if you scrunch your eyes and think really hard.

CIE · 18-11-2012 11:36pm

The Idyl Race wrote: »

Sell the whole shooting match to DB or SNCF for a euro and give them a free hand.

That's the only logical solution

So the Third Amendment wasn't enough (which put European law above Irish law), but we have to hand over railway infrastructure to state railways of other countries in earnest?

lottpaul · 19-11-2012 11:05pm

Watched the second episode tonight with some friends who would in fairness know little about railways outside of All Ireland finals.
Even they were gobsmacked at the nonsense being trotted out. "The railways saved thousands from starvation during the Famine" to the East vs West, Western Rail Corridor to Sligo and so on. In an ideal fantasy world maybe but here and now?

Should have been shown on some sort of sci-fi/fantasy channel. All pie in the sky stuff unless we discover oil, gold and more in every corner of the country.

Must be the most "mis-named" programme on RTE for many years.

Temp101 · 20-11-2012 10:54am

Watched the second episode of this last night, again with non-railway folk. The non-railway folk may not have a great knowledge of railway history, but they do know general Irish history, which is more than can be said about the programme makers. The non-railway folk also know how to construct sentences, which appears beyond the script writer of the programme. The second episode was worse than the first, which is some going.

corktina · 20-11-2012 11:22am

Has there been anything about the 21st century yet?

RikkFlair · 20-11-2012 12:56pm

Temp101 wrote: »

Watched the second episode of this last night, again with non-railway folk. The non-railway folk may not have a great knowledge of railway history, but they do know general Irish history, which is more than can be said about the programme makers. The non-railway folk also know how to construct sentences, which appears beyond the script writer of the programme. The second episode was worse than the first, which is some going.

I'd be a non-railway person and was looking forward to this show, however last night there was so much rehashed stuff I thought I was actually watching a repeat of episode 1. There was one clip where they showed a train going parallel to a canal (not sure where in country that was) and they must have showed that clip about 8 times between the 2 shows so far.

The verdict from me: Not great. Actually wondering what the point of this show is at all? Much preferred the Boithre Iarainn shows on TG4 over the last few years.

lottpaul · 20-11-2012 1:17pm

RikkFlair wrote: »

Actually wondering what the point of this show is at all? Much preferred the Boithre Iarainn shows on TG4 over the last few years.

Exactly!

davidlacey · 20-11-2012 1:24pm

are those tg4 shows still avsilable to watch?

RikkFlair · 20-11-2012 1:38pm

davidlacey wrote: »

are those tg4 shows still avsilable to watch?

On their website no I don't think so, but there might be an episode or 2 up on youtube. I missed a few of those shows so maybe I'll try to track down a DVD boxset if such a thing exists.

foggy_lad · 20-11-2012 1:40pm

RikkFlair wrote: »

I'd be a non-railway person and was looking forward to this show, however last night there was so much rehashed stuff I thought I was actually watching a repeat of episode 1. There was one clip where they showed a train going parallel to a canal (not sure where in country that was) and they must have showed that clip about 8 times between the 2 shows so far.

The verdict from me: Not great. Actually wondering what the point of this show is at all? Much preferred the Boithre Iarainn shows on TG4 over the last few years.

You could make a better program using clips downloaded from youtube!

sligotrain · 20-11-2012 2:16pm

It strikes me that the whole series was put together as a promotional vehicle for Iarnrod Eireann and I fully expect the third episode will primarily consist of "look what we would have had if we had the government funding" moments.

Expect lots of computer simulations of the DART Interconnector...

Kumsheen · 20-11-2012 6:15pm

I watched the episode last night but i missed the first one.
I thought the program was terrible and completely removed from reality. Did they live in some parallel universe for the last 20 years? Cuckoo land stuff!
You really did get the impression you were watching some IR promo video at times.

And as for the WRC and all that Dublin is Anti West stuff, well that was just the icing on the cake.

The worst factual program i have seen in a very long time.

end of the road · 20-11-2012 6:19pm

its a program of CIE propaganda. spent most of last nights and the previous episode shouting at the tv, LOL. oh we bought new rolling stock aren't we fantastic, yeah you have so much that carriges units and locos between 12 and 20 years old are being left to rot because theirs no work for them as you bought to many new trains for services you were never going to implament, even some of the new stock may end up with no work either, stock designed for short distances are still operating the odd service to rosslare and sligo where as stock designed for long distances are operating to m3 parkway. oh we put down new track and improved speeds aren't we really fantastic, oh yeah speed restrictions and slower speeds then the 1980s so actually no you really are not fantastic. oh we opened new lines and reopened some aren't we really really fantastic, yes the middleton reopening was a good investment and is doing well and long may it continue, instead of only opening to m3 parkway they should have reopened the whole lot to navon but shambles after shambles will make sure that never happens or if it does it will be even more expensive because nobody thought to protect the alignment or even better not closing it in the first place. and as for the WRC, phaze 1 has caused 1 line to close and to more will go to pay for it 1 of which would definitely be a candidate for improved services and should have been a definite candidate for investment during the good times (so should the other 2 have been) but definitely limerick junction waterford, phaze 2 and 3 will never happen thankfully and phaze 1 will be shut and lifted soon.

Judgement Day · 20-11-2012 8:30pm

Second episode, which was pure muck, is now available here: http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10088571/

They will be able to sell it as a comedy to other networks.

Among the memorable quotes from the second episode were the following:

'We now have a fleet of trains absolutely fit for purpose' Barry Kenny

'The length of the trains is much longer' Frank McDonald

and the best of all from the programme presenter, that well known railway historian - Liz Nolan ' Under British Rule many routes were abandoned'....ffs! :rolleyes:

sporty56 · 20-11-2012 9:18pm

Wonder how many more times they'll show 171 blowing smoke rings ?? Pity they didn't ask BBC for some of the their excellent footage from Michael Palin's run down to Wexford with 461 etc. Poor program with no questions asked so far how IR's PR folk ended up with longer journey times to satisfy "on time" statistics. All that after spending a heap of money renewing permanent way, wasted opportunity to really speed things up.

corktina · 20-11-2012 9:19pm

i think almost no lines were abandoned under British Rule ! Glad I missed it...I did think it would turn out this way though.

Judgement Day · 20-11-2012 9:44pm

corktina wrote: »

i think almost no lines were abandoned under British Rule ! Glad I missed it...I did think it would turn out this way though.

Parsonstown & Portumna Bridge and the Bray & Enniskerry come to mind - only one of which was actually built and opened.

road_high · 20-11-2012 11:05pm

Christ Barry Kenny must live in la la land.

road_high · 20-11-2012 11:23pm

Oh lord I was cringing even more on the WRC stuff. Did they produce the "programme"? The East-West divide and how people on the east coast knock the poor old westerners. Truly some of RTE's worst ever production.
CIE and WRC propaganda, woeful sh!te. Funny how the WRC cheerleader failed to mentio they need to get passengers to use the service, all he could was "we need to get a groundswell of backing behind this".

Eiretrains · 21-11-2012 12:48am

Judgement Day wrote: »

and the best of all from the programme presenter, that well known railway historian - Liz Nolan ' Under British Rule many routes were abandoned'....ffs! :rolleyes:

Yes I was astonished at that statement too, I don't know where they might have got that fleeting assumption.

Also, we all know the Midland chose to build alongside the canal because they wanted to build quick and cheap, and not as stated, as been some part of some pioneering idea in transport incorporation.:rolleyes:

gobnaitolunacy · 21-11-2012 10:42am

Judgement Day wrote: »

that well known railway historian - Liz Nolan ' Under British Rule many routes were abandoned'....ffs! :rolleyes:

Who...? And what...???!!! Oh yes, the nasty oul Brits, we'll give them an oul' dig sure.
We were pretty adept at wrecking our transport system on our own thank you very much.

Just when I thought the worst RTE railway-related programme was the totally unfunny 'Signal Box' with David Kelly many moons ago. It has some stiff competition.

The Idyl Race · 21-11-2012 10:47am

Eiretrains wrote: »

Yes I was astonished at that statement too, I don't know where they might have got that fleeting assumption.

Also, we all know the Midland chose to build alongside the canal because they wanted to build quick and cheap, and not as stated, as been some part of some pioneering idea in transport incorporation.:rolleyes:

Official Ireland saying, it wasn't our fault, we didn't start railway closures, the brits did it first.. because Portumna Bridge to Birr has such a groundswell of resentment over that closure no doubt.

Judgement Day · 21-11-2012 2:45pm

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Who...? And what...???!!! Oh yes, the nasty oul Brits, we'll give them an oul' dig sure.
We were pretty adept at wrecking our transport system on our own thank you very much.

Just when I thought the worst RTE railway-related programme was the totally unfunny 'Signal Box' with David Kelly many moons ago. It has some stiff competition.

Just for you.

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/1145386/

Mercifully, I never saw the series but if I had, it could have cured my interest in railways and saved me a packet.

The plot thickens - it seems David Kelly also featured in an 1994 RTE production titled "The Signal Box" directed by Sean Hardie - but typically, being RTE, there's little or nothing online - even on imdb. Anybody seen it??

road_high · 21-11-2012 7:18pm

RTE, CIE, ESB etc etc all mutally exclusive State quango dinosaurs. We were hoping for far too much for this programme to be in any way objective or critical.
Truely some of RTE's worst rubbish in decades, and that's saying something.
If you want to imagine what TV programmes were like in Communist Russia, I'd imagine this would not be too wide of the mark!

gobnaitolunacy · 21-11-2012 9:46pm

In Communist Russia, TV watches you!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

gobnaitolunacy · 21-11-2012 9:52pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Just for you.

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/1145386/

Mercifully, I never saw the series but if I had, it could have cured my interest in railways and saved me a packet.

The plot thickens - it seems David Kelly also featured in an 1994 RTE production titled "The Signal Box" directed by Sean Hardie - but typically, being RTE, there's little or nothing online - even on imdb. Anybody seen it??

I had the misfortune of seeing it, it had Sean Hughes in it as well. It was slated by tv critics as not being the faintest bit amusing...RTE maintaining it was intended to be a 'surreal' comedy based on the writings of Myles Na gCopaillin.
They made lots of 'surreal' stuff over the years...Extra Extra, Ryantown, Leave It To Mrs O'Brien...:D

shelbourne ultimatum · 22-11-2012 12:45am

While some of the footage is enjoyable in parts, it is generally a woeful production.

Absolutely no critique has been applied to IE's version of events at all. Frank McDonald, a man who has done more to kill heavy railway development (simply because he gets a slight horn at the sight of a tram), fails to provide anything even remotely objective either - "the length of the trains is longer". Wow, Frank. Insightful.

While i'm grateful to see such a programme by RTE, it could have been so much better. Instead, we get an IE PR fluff piece timed to co-incide perfectly with the new timetable (or last gasp at saving the Intercity network).

RTE - Must try harder.

gobnaitolunacy · 22-11-2012 9:04am

Had a brief look at it, apart from the poor grammar by F Mc D, it looks to me like a feature-length IE ad.

Sligo Quay · 22-11-2012 10:09pm

I looked at it on the RTE player, its the greatest load of tripe, its like a propaganda film, it had no substance, it tolded a tall tale of the way things are certainly not, then the ''fussy'' aerial film footage of a steam train steaming thru the countryside giving the false impression that it was old footage from years ago when infact it was probably a resent RPSI railtour film footage taken from a helicopter.
Thats what the whole documentary was about, false impressions, smoke & mirrors, very deceptive and full of spin.
Irish Rail is bankrupt, the money disappeared down a black hole during the boom, badly managed.
Im not going to mention the guy from West on track, who had a lot to say, but said very little, I don't even read that thread anymore.
Miles from reality, but probably makes good TV.

LivelineDipso · 23-11-2012 6:07pm

Is it just me or is everything coming out of RTE these days just horrific?

steamengine · 23-11-2012 7:07pm

LivelineDipso wrote: »

Is it just me or is everything coming out of RTE these days just horrific?

No not just you - those tv licence ads currently being shown are so cringeworthy it beggars belief - Rabbits, interpretative dance, osmosis.

As regards the current railway series, it hasn't received one positive review here. It's somewhat ironic that it took the BBC series based on Bradshaws railway guide, with Michael Portillo, to show how an Irish railway series should be done.

The Idyl Race · 23-11-2012 7:15pm

steamengine wrote: »

No not just you - those tv licence ads currently being shown are so cringeworthy it beggars belief - Rabbits, interpretative dance, osmosis.

As regards the current railway series, it hasn't received one positive review here. It's somewhat ironic that it took the BBC series based on Bradshaws railway guide, with Michael Portillo, to show how an Irish railway series should be done.

Not ironic at all, the BBC are unquestionably the greatest broadcaster in the world while the limit of RTE's ambitions is Miriam O'Callaghan asking an interviewee but how do you feel?

steamengine · 23-11-2012 7:19pm

The Idyl Race wrote: »

Not ironic at all, the BBC are unquestionably the greatest broadcaster in the world while the limit of RTE's ambitions is Miriam O'Callaghan asking an interviewee but how do you feel?

I suppose we might be expecting too much from a family run outfit !;)

Sligo Quay · 24-11-2012 2:28pm

shelbourne ultimatum wrote: »

Absolutely no critique has been applied to IE's version of events at all. Frank McDonald, a man who has done more to kill heavy railway development (simply because he gets a slight horn at the sight of a tram),

Between Claremorris and Collooney there over 200 level crossings according to Frank McDonald, a guy who lives in Temple Bar and hasn't a clue as to whats happening outside the pale, I don't see the economic sense in reopening the Burma rd ether, but please, honest facts to argue your case, Iv since reseach in the last few days and Iv learned there where 46level crossing, not 200, way off the mark.
Frank McDonald is wired to the moon.

OurLadyofKnock · 24-11-2012 4:20pm

Sligo Quay wrote: »

Iv since reseach in the last few days and Iv learned there where 46level crossing,

Still and huge number for a short line and many cross busy N roads.

Losty Dublin · 24-11-2012 4:28pm

Sligo Quay wrote: »

Between Claremorris and Collooney there over 200 level crossings according to Frank McDonald, a guy who lives in Temple Bar and hasn't a clue as to whats happening outside the pale, I don't see the economic sense in reopening the Burma rd ether, but please, honest facts to argue your case, Iv since reseach in the last few days and Iv learned there where 46level crossing, not 200, way off the mark.
Frank McDonald is wired to the moon.

200 is including farm/accommodation crossings as well as road crossings. Accommodation crossings cause far more of railway speed restrictons due to their largely unprotected and unpredictable nature of traffic as well as the often blatand disregard of common sense by many of their users.

24-11-2012 5:45pm

I had these recorded and watched them today. The thing which really got to me was the propaganda about the new trains being "bigger" - try telling someone on the Rosslare line that they have bigger trains. :rolleyes:

Grandeeod · 24-11-2012 5:49pm

Unfortunately I can't see this programme where I am and I think I'm glad!

dowlingm · 24-11-2012 6:28pm

Sligo Quay wrote: »

Iv since reseach in the last few days and Iv learned there where 46level crossing, not 200, way off the mark.
Frank McDonald is wired to the moon.

Is that road-rail crossings or including accommodation crossings too?

Judgement Day · 24-11-2012 9:03pm

dowlingm wrote: »

Is that road-rail crossings or including accommodation crossings too?

Frank McDonald's nonsense quote includes every gate in a hedge along the line but it makes a great soundbite for lazy RTE filmmakers.

Sligo Quay · 24-11-2012 9:40pm

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

Still and huge number for a short line and many cross busy N roads.

Yes I agree, it was about 46 half miles from Claremorris to Collooney Junction on the Sligo line, so that would make on average a level crossing for every mile, but honest facts, not propaganda and soundbites, Frank McDonald would be the first one to criticised people for getting facts wrong, county councilors in planning etc. he's been banging on about that for years in the Irish Times.

Judgement Day · 25-11-2012 2:58pm

There was a far better, four part series entitled "Trains" produced by RTE (Norris Davidson) back in 1979. I bought a one-off VHS copy from RTE in 1997 for IR £121.00 - I still have it somewhere - meanwhile here's the RTE Guide cover from 1979 to keep you going.

dowlingm · 25-11-2012 4:41pm

LivelineDipso wrote: »

Is it just me or is everything coming out of RTE these days just horrific?

Possibly, but compared to North American broadcasting...

Sligo Quay · 25-11-2012 8:49pm

IR £121.00 was a lot of dough in 1979 JD, but I have to hand it to you, you do come up with some gems, it was few years after that, we would have met in person;) I didn't have 2brass farthings to rub together, never mind 100guineas, then I disappeared to sea for 20years, then turn up on boards like a bad penny:cool:

Judgement Day · 25-11-2012 8:53pm

When I find it I'll stick up a bit on YouTube and post a link here but it wasn't bad stuff.

Our man in Havana · 26-11-2012 9:35pm

All abroad for this weeks propaganda.

All stand for the gospel according to St Dick Fearn.

Lapin · 26-11-2012 9:53pm

Pie in the sky seems to be the theme this evening.

Our man in Havana · 26-11-2012 9:58pm

And that was a party political broadcast on behalf of the communist party of North Korea.

flynnlives · 26-11-2012 10:03pm

narrator- "good targeted economic investments"

and the a VT of that flutehawk from west on track!

tell me what is "good targeted economic investment" about the current limerick-galway line

a complete waste of money

21st Century Railway - RTÉ 1

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