Do you see Gatso vans/Speed Vans as a necessity or a revenue stream

MagicSean · 26-11-2012 6:55pm

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Some of the older vans are still not in the bright new colours, and despite of the crap being peddled by the GS press office they are not just placed on stretches of roads which have a history of bad accidents.

When was the last time there was a bad accident on Mount Argus Road, or the road between Gormanstown and Julianstown. Truth is they are a revenue stream for the Government, whats worse they dont even make the roads safer as they dont detect dangerous/careless driving, use of mobiles, lack of lights etc.
I have no issue with the Traffic Corps enforcing all the rules , but these vans are just a money machine.:mad:

Don't know those areas. All I know is the ones around where I live are on roads that have a history of accidents, bad accidents too. I remember many of them. Same goes for the town near me. Five routes out of it are monitored, all of which have had fatal accidents in the past few years. I'm talking about the new private ones here.

I don't know what way the Garda locations are chosen. I don't think the decision goes very far up the line though so i can't see what benefit it would be to create a revenue stream for the person who makes the decision.

I.S.T. · 26-11-2012 6:59pm

sfwcork wrote: »

I had this discussion with a good mate of mine who is a guard over the weekend. My point was that I see vans in zones which are not notorious black spots and now more in areas where it would be considered an "Easy catch"Im all for any measure which will actually save lives but not all for a hidden revenue streamwhats the opinion?

If it's not about revenue generation, they would abolish the fine aspect of the offense and just give penalty points.

Dravokivich · 26-11-2012 7:03pm

Roman Square Sinner wrote: »

Mainly a revenue stream. If they are supposed to make our roads safer then..
[*]Why are they not painted in an high visability colour, so people will see them, and slow down? lots of them are painted black and hidden to try and catch the driver out. Thats not really making our roads safer.
[*]why are they put in wide safe stretchs of road, where there has never been a crash

I have never understood this. Why do they have to be visible? Same for the cameras mounted on poles (actual poles, not Polish people).

Death and Taxes · 26-11-2012 7:06pm

MagicSean wrote: »

Don't know those areas. All I know is the ones around where I live are on roads that have a history of accidents, bad accidents too. I remember many of them. Same goes for the town near me. Five routes out of it are monitored, all of which have had fatal accidents in the past few years. I'm talking about the new private ones here.

I don't know what way the Garda locations are chosen. I don't think the decision goes very far up the line though so i can't see what benefit it would be to create a revenue stream for the person who makes the decision.

Well Sean in most cases its not the Garda who make the revenue, there is a private company involved!
this is a lesson on why we should not privatise law enforcement, reform and strengte what we have, but handing law enforcement to the private sector, as in this case, is a recipe for disaster.

opti0nal · 26-11-2012 7:06pm

Shenshen wrote: »

He replied saying that usually, whenever a car driver spots one of these vans, they will drop whatever speed they were doing before, legal or not, and crawl by the van at around 30 ...As long as the average Irish driver has no idea what the legal limit is on whatever stretch of road he might be on at any given time, they will start acting as a serious danger to other drivers the moment they spot a van.

The answer to this problem is to conceal the cameras and not have prominent vans.

The 'revenue generator' argument is one of a number of cognitive distortions employed by offenders to justify their behaviour. Others include: 'driving fast is safer', 'the speed limits are wrong', 'confident/competant drivers should be allowed speed' and 'slow drivers cause accidents'.

78% of drivers exceed speed limits. that's too much.

ScumLord · 26-11-2012 7:24pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

I have never understood this. Why do they have to be visible? Same for the cameras mounted on poles (actual poles, not Polish people).

Because they're supposed to be discouraging you from speeding. Stopping someone from speeding is more beneficial than catching someone speeding.

dj jarvis · 26-11-2012 7:45pm

MagicSean wrote: »

Don't know those areas. All I know is the ones around where I live are on roads that have a history of accidents, bad accidents too. I remember many of them. Same goes for the town near me. Five routes out of it are monitored, all of which have had fatal accidents in the past few years. I'm talking about the new private ones here.

I don't know what way the Garda locations are chosen. I don't think the decision goes very far up the line though so i can't see what benefit it would be to create a revenue stream for the person who makes the decision.

ah sean , really ???

look , its in EVERY government employee's benefit to gather as much cash from the public as they can ,better public purse , more chance of a rise and better benefits - full stop , end of - if you don't see that then all hope is lost for you.

and to prove the point - i got arrested 25 odd years ago on a motorbike with a English reg , had it in the state over 6 months avoiding the VRT
got DRAGGED off the bike by a pr1ck of a cop , thrown into the squad car with 3 other cops , while being squeezed to death in the back with 3 of them , one looked over and squealed " you would not have gotten a 1/4 of this attention if you had mugged a old lady , you are robbing from the state by not paying VRT , so in turn you are robbing from me and my children , and for that we will f"ck you up every time "

so , not revenue collection ??? my feckin arse

The Maverick · 26-11-2012 8:37pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

ah sean , really ???

look , its in EVERY government employee's benefit to gather as much cash from the public as they can ,better public purse , more chance of a rise and better benefits - full stop , end of - if you don't see that then all hope is lost for you.

and to prove the point - i got arrested 25 odd years ago on a motorbike with a English reg , had it in the state over 6 months avoiding the VRT
got DRAGGED off the bike by a pr1ck of a cop , thrown into the squad car with 3 other cops , while being squeezed to death in the back with 3 of them , one looked over and squealed " you would not have gotten a 1/4 of this attention if you had mugged a old lady , you are robbing from the state by not paying VRT , so in turn you are robbing from me and my children , and for that we will f"ck you up every time "

so , not revenue collection ??? my feckin arse

Any guard who can figure out exactly how many tickets they need to issue so that by the time the money has gone all the way back into the central pot and been divided out again, they receive a pay rise, is being wasted on traffic duty.

If that quote from the garda arresting you happened, how you or the other guards could keep a straight face at the cheesy action movie qualities of that line is very impressive.

Some speeding vans are useful but I think everyone knows a long,straight stretch of road where they are positioned purely to generate revenue. There's a stretch near me that's 60 km/h, even though before it was bypassed it was apparently capable of 100 km/h. How is it less safe and in need of more enforcement now that there is less traffic on it before?

MagicSean · 26-11-2012 8:37pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

look , its in EVERY government employee's benefit to gather as much cash from the public as they can ,better public purse , more chance of a rise and better benefits - full stop , end of - if you don't see that then all hope is lost for you.

No person thinks like that. It's too grand a scale for an individual to consider.

dj jarvis wrote: »

and to prove the point - i got arrested 25 odd years ago on a motorbike with a English reg , had it in the state over 6 months avoiding the VRT
got DRAGGED off the bike by a pr1ck of a cop , thrown into the squad car with 3 other cops , while being squeezed to death in the back with 3 of them , one looked over and squealed " you would not have gotten a 1/4 of this attention if you had mugged a old lady , you are robbing from the state by not paying VRT , so in turn you are robbing from me and my children , and for that we will f"ck you up every time "

Back then I think Gardaí got a portion of VRT once it was paid on a vehcile they seized. Something like 10%. There is no such reward anymore.

The Maverick · 26-11-2012 8:38pm

MagicSean wrote: »

Back then I think Gardaí got a portion of VRT once it was paid on a vehcile they seized. Something like 10%. There is no such reward anymore.

Jesus that can't be true? How in the name of god would that ever be considered a good idea.

mikom · 26-11-2012 8:40pm

A money racket that lowers peoples respect for those in law enforcement.

repsol · 26-11-2012 8:47pm

MagicSean wrote: »

No person thinks like that. It's too grand a scale for an individual to consider.

Back then I think Gardaí got a portion of VRT once it was paid on a vehcile they seized. Something like 10%. There is no such reward anymore.

That is nonsense. Gardai never got commission. The vans operated by the Gardai are however a huge cash cow.There is a road in North Dublin and I have it on good authority that a 5 figure sum for fines can be achieved in a couple of hours no problem as the limit is low but the road is good quality with loads of traffic

keith16 · 26-11-2012 8:54pm

I don't care because I always obey the speed limit.

It's not like speeding in this country makes any difference in any case. You can get to Belfast, Cork, Galway and Limerick from Dublin in the guts of two hours or so.

I often will see people flying past me on the N11 only to pull up beside them at traffic lights 30 seconds later. I don't get it at all.

dj jarvis · 26-11-2012 11:44pm

MagicSean wrote: »

No person thinks like that. It's too grand a scale for an individual to consider.

Back then I think Gardaí got a portion of VRT once it was paid on a vehcile they seized. Something like 10%. There is no such reward anymore.

you are joking are you not?

Rodin · 26-11-2012 11:46pm

Specs cameras are the way to go.

dj jarvis · 27-11-2012 12:02am

The Maverick wrote: »

Any guard who can figure out exactly how many tickets they need to issue so that by the time the money has gone all the way back into the central pot and been divided out again, they receive a pay rise, is being wasted on traffic duty.

If that quote from the garda arresting you happened, how you or the other guards could keep a straight face at the cheesy action movie qualities of that line is very impressive.

Some speeding vans are useful but I think everyone knows a long,straight stretch of road where they are positioned purely to generate revenue. There's a stretch near me that's 60 km/h, even though before it was bypassed it was apparently capable of 100 km/h. How is it less safe and in need of more enforcement now that there is less traffic on it before?

verbatim, from one of Corks finest, round red faced ignorant ****ehawks.
And how do you know i was not laughing ? - And how is a sweaty fat cop squeezed into a ford on the Inchicore rd the qualities of ANY action movie ?
what films do you watch

so if tax collection and revenue enforcement is not so important to the garda , why oh why are there soooooo many tax traffic stops ? public safety ? civic concern ? ehhhh no - why so many checkpoints with the customs ? dipping for diesel ? checking VRT ? again revenue collection

the speed vans DO serve a duel purpose - but the main reason is for your cash - Dublin city is the safest city for road deaths in Europe , yet every feckin bush has a cop with a speed gun , normally on stretches of road like the stillorgan duel carriage way , easy pickings , again for safety ?
i would say no , if they wanted to really focus on safety, why not focus on dangerous roads instead on the roads with the easy pickings - you see it everyday - as the majority of posters have also voiced

keith16 · 27-11-2012 12:26am

dj jarvis wrote: »

verbatim, from one of Corks finest, round red faced ignorant ****ehawks.
And how do you know i was not laughing ? - And how is a sweaty fat cop squeezed into a ford on the Inchicore rd the qualities of ANY action movie ?
what films do you watch

so if tax collection and revenue enforcement is not so important to the garda , why oh why are there soooooo many tax traffic stops ? public safety ? civic concern ? ehhhh no - why so many checkpoints with the customs ? dipping for diesel ? checking VRT ? again revenue collection

the speed vans DO serve a duel purpose - but the main reason is for your cash - Dublin city is the safest city for road deaths in Europe , yet every feckin bush has a cop with a speed gun , normally on stretches of road like the stillorgan duel carriage way , easy pickings , again for safety ?
i would say no , if they wanted to really focus on safety, why not focus on dangerous roads instead on the roads with the easy pickings - you see it everyday - as the majority of posters have also voiced

I've been stopped, once, maybe twice in the last two years to tax checks.

And why shouldn't they check for VRT? Why would I even bother paying my motor tax if people don't pay VRT?

Why do people have such a big chip on their shoulder when it comes to speeding and some perception they are being "caught out"? How about you just obey the rules of the road.

Please Kill Me · 27-11-2012 12:44am

They have NOTHING to do with safety! They are revenue earners all the way. Fish in a barrel, easy targets, easy money...call it what you will, that's all they are.

keith16 wrote: »

How about you just obey the rules of the road.

How about speed limits be more realistic?? I've been on roads with an 100kph limit and you'd be lucky if you could get more than 60kph without rattling your car to bits or killing yourself on a hairpin bend! Then there are stretches where you could comfortably do 100kph and has a 60 limit. Why? To make it easier to catch people unaware!! Tossers!!

dj jarvis · 27-11-2012 12:47am

keith16 wrote: »

I've been stopped, once, maybe twice in the last two years to tax checks.

And why shouldn't they check for VRT? Why would I even bother paying my motor tax if people don't pay VRT?

Why do people have such a big chip on their shoulder when it comes to speeding and some perception they are being "caught out"? How about you just obey the rules of the road.

you are picking up what i am trying to say wrong,
i did not say it was wrong - i said that is the reason they are doing it

i have no chip on any of my shoulders - i just can seen the reason why they do it

as for the obey the rules of the road comment, you are aware that driving a bike with the vrt lapsed is a revenue problem , not a road traffic issue ?
and where oh where did i say i was speeding ?

and your personal experience of the amount of road traffic stops and mine do not count as a true reflection on the amount of ACTUAL road check points , so really my evaluation is as valid as yours - but to forward your argument your is more valid than mine ?

yes i was caught - for waiting 3 months over the limit while i earned enough to pay for the VRT , and in taking the bike off me they killed all chance of that - while also having to be abused by a Pr1ck of a garda for this lapse.

oooohhh , real al capone i am

even al was caught for taxes - you believe what you want, and ride off on your high horse - i guess you have NEVER EVER broken the speed limit :eek:

opti0nal · 27-11-2012 1:52am

Please Kill Me wrote: »

They have NOTHING to do with safety! They are revenue earners all the way. Fish in a barrel, easy targets, easy money...call it what you will, that's all they are.

If this is true, how much net profit is made by the state from speeding fines, once operational costs have been deducted? Back up your argument.

Please Kill Me wrote: »

How about speed limits be more realistic??..Then there are stretches where you could comfortably do 100kph and has a 60 limit. Why?

Because you care more about your own comfort than the safety of those who live along or use those roads?

Do you see Gatso vans/Speed Vans as a necessity or a revenue stream

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