Irelands Mediterranean Migrant Crisis Response

beauf · 10-09-2015 10:41pm

jank wrote: »

...On the second point, it is interesting the US media both traditional and social have not really run with this. When Ferguson kicked off my own feeds was flooded with stuff, now though its much much quieter. Interesting how even in the internet age, ones social media feeds are still dominated by the U.S.

Well it wouldn't sit easy knowing the chaos they've left in their wake.

SpaceSasqwatch · 10-09-2015 10:42pm

beauf wrote: »

+1

The Govt seems to be intent on widening the wealth gap as much as they can.

yeah it will probably affect the dole rats on 188 euro a week now. 4k unemployed people entering the system will do that.

If you're working you have nothing to fear.

And another question...why are there so many newly regéd users posting on these type of threads?

beauf · 10-09-2015 11:04pm

SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »

....If you're working you have nothing to fear.....

Who else do you think will pay for all this?

Its not fear, its wondering why exactly I'm working, all I seem to be doing is paying for everyone else expenses and fixing everyone else's problems. Emigrating seems to the only thing that makes financial sense.

johnty56 · 10-09-2015 11:05pm

SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »

yeah it will probably affect the dole rats on 188 euro a week now. 4k unemployed people entering the system will do that.

If you're working you have nothing to fear.

And another question...why are there so many newly regéd users posting on these type of threads?

Nice contribution.. You stay classy dude.

SpaceSasqwatch · 10-09-2015 11:10pm

beauf wrote: »

its wondering why exactly I'm working

you're working for your take home pay.If thats not good enough for you ,skill up or change job.

Dont worry about the tax.You have no choice paying it and blaming the refugee's for high tax is a lazy argrument.

beauf · 11-09-2015 1:45am

SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »

you're working for your take home pay.If thats not good enough for you ,skill up or change job.

Dont worry about the tax.You have no choice paying it and blaming the refugee's for high tax is a lazy argrument.

The people working and paying tax are being lazy and blaming refugees for their wages? I think you've surpassed J. K. Rowling in fantasy fiction with that one.

People who say don't worry about tax tend to be the people who don't pay them, or avoid paying it. If there one consistent thing about this govt its how they keep saying its not really a tax and it making things better. Has a funny way of becoming an even more expensive tax without any improvement in anything. If anything it gets worse.

The fact is we have a govt that does not provide social housing, it outsources it. To the private sector. Theres a housing crisis. They've done nothing.

The Simon Community homelessness charity has warned that the State’s housing and homeless crisis is “out of control” and will continue to escalate unless the Government increases rent supplement limits and introduces rent certainty.

“The Simon Communities are working with over 6,000 people annually and it’s inevitable that we will see even more people turning to us for help unless the housing crisis is urgently addressed.”

70 per cent of landlords have loans while 71 per cent have insufficient income from their rental property to cover mortgage repayments,

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/housing-and-homeless-crisis-out-of-control-1.2320783

This is the reality that the migrants will arrive in the middle of.

But as you say don't worry about it.

Nodin · 11-09-2015 5:58am

Safehands wrote: »

I watched a video tonight of the refugees in Hungary and in Macedonia. These people are not a gentle flock of shell shocked people on the run from tyranny. They are a mob of aggressive migrants hell bent on imposing their ways on the governments trying to help them. In these videos we can see them throwing away good food and water. We can see the Macedonian refugees refusing red cross food parcels, seemingly because there is a Christian symbol on the packaging. This is outrageously arrogant behaviour from a group of people who will not be content to simply live anywhere. We need to be very careful. The innocent Irish, with huge hearts need to wake up and realise that these are not simple folk up from the country, looking for shelter.

They were refusing the parcels in protest at their treatment.

Safehands · 11-09-2015 9:28am

Nodin wrote: »

They were refusing the parcels in protest at their treatment.

In Macedonia they didn't take them because they had the red cross on the packs. They wanted Halal food. These parcels contained biscuits, fish and fruit, non of which would be subject to the Halal laws. Jews only eat Kosher food, but they never behaved like that when they were refugees.

These people are being hosted in their thousands. It is not easy for any government to click their fingers and have systems set up for them. They are doing their best and trying to feed them, to give them basic sustenance. They way the refugees are reacting is a cause for grave concern. There appears to be no basic understanding or appreciation of what is being done for them. They seem to have an entitlement attitude and that does not augur well for this country.

ComfortKid · 11-09-2015 10:28am

Nodin wrote:

They were refusing the parcels in protest at their treatment.

So you think throwing away the food and water off is justified?

Let me guess your answer. "Where did I say it was justified"

What treatment do you speak of Nodin? The offer of food and water and offering to bring to refugee camp to register for asylum?

Nodin · 11-09-2015 11:21am

Safehands wrote: »

In Macedonia they didn't take them because they had the red cross on the packs. They wanted Halal food. These parcels contained biscuits, fish and fruit, non of which would be subject to the Halal laws. Jews only eat Kosher food, but they never behaved like that when they were refugees.

...............

They refused them because of the way they were being treated. If you want to claim otherwise, present proof.

Safehands · 11-09-2015 11:45am

Nodin wrote: »

They refused them because of the way they were being treated. If you want to claim otherwise, present proof.

On the video we can hear them shouting "Halal". I would say that gives us an indication, wouldn't you?

AlekSmart · 11-09-2015 12:37pm

Nodin wrote: »

They refused them because of the way they were being treated. If you want to claim otherwise, present proof.

The main reason the aid was refused apparently centred around the migrants spokespersons believing it was part of a delaying process by Macedonian,and later,Hungarian authorities.

The fear of being retained within any of the other European countries was uppermost in the migrant mind (perhaps it still is)...Germany was THE destination.

At that point in time,before the general German absolution,there was very volatile situation in place,which saw several large-scale eruptions along the refugee trail.

However,it is notable that since Angela Merkel's clarification of Germany's willingness to accept most applicants,these violent scene's have abated.

The refusal of aid-packages,had far more to do with a mass distrust of official Policing and Politics than with Jesus,Mary or Allah

foggy_lad · 11-09-2015 12:47pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

However,it is notable that since Angela Merkel's clarification of Germany's willingness to accept most applicants,these violent scene's have abated.

The refusal of aid-packages,had far more to do with a mass distrust of official Policing and Politics than with Jesus,Mary or Allah

Germany have since stated that they will not be accepting economic migrants and they will be returned to where they came from, but they have yet to outline their plan to carry out this mass return of migrants.

The Church here have offered buildings afaik some empty convents and other such buildings, I wondered if these would be acceptable to Muslims and thought not but you know the old saying "beggars can't be choosers" should apply in situations like this if we are dealing with genuinely desperate refugees!

jackofalltrades · 11-09-2015 1:18pm

Nodin wrote: »

They were refusing the parcels in protest at their treatment.

What's your source for this?

Nodin · 11-09-2015 1:27pm

jackofalltrades wrote: »

What's your source for this?

Whats the source for them refusing the parcels because their treatment?

Nodin · 11-09-2015 1:27pm

Safehands wrote: »

On the video we can hear them shouting "Halal". I would say that gives us an indication, wouldn't you?

"we can" can we?

Safehands · 11-09-2015 1:37pm

Nodin wrote: »

"we can" can we?

yes!

A Primal Nut · 11-09-2015 2:34pm

Anyone who would starve rather than eat non-Halal food is a fundamentalist in my opinion and should be sent packing.

jackofalltrades · 11-09-2015 2:46pm

Nodin wrote: »

Whats the source for them refusing the parcels because their treatment?

I don't have to provide sources for claims that I haven't made.
But I'm guessing you know that.

So I ask again do you have a source for your claim?
I'm genuinely interested and would also like to see a source from people claiming that the parcels are being throw away due to the red cross on them.

JONJO THE MISER · 11-09-2015 6:17pm

Hungary will have there fence completed by Tuesday, the army is to be deployed and anyone entering illegally is to be arrested.
Great news, it appears Hungary is the only country that is prepared to sort out this madness.

Manach · 11-09-2015 10:44pm

Mod Note:
To re-iterate this thread is on Ireland's response to this crisis.

deni20000 · 25-09-2015 5:33pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I think it would give citizens more clarity if the Government told us what figures they have in mind for settlement here and how the process will work.

The country is a lot more divided on this, not that you would think it based on the one sided media reporting.

The Indo, Irish Times and RTE are giving a totally biased reporting. If you were to believe them you'd think that everybody is in favour of what's happening and nobody has any worries. Classic Hits 4FM and The Sunday Times are giving a balanced view.

deni20000 · 25-09-2015 6:04pm

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

RTE reporter in Greece showing 7 men from Pakistan arriving by paddle boat from Turkey, i thought all the refugees were from Syria like we are told by the left wing.
Fact is fewer than half are, the rest being economic migrant invaders.
I wonder will someone in Ireland offer to put these 7 up in there family home.

I heard the official figure is 1 in 6 are Syrian.

deni20000 · 25-09-2015 6:19pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Supposed to be a cabinet meeting on Wednesday to discuss this issue, this might give us more of an idea of the figures we are looking at taking in.

Cameron tells his people exactly the amount they are accepting, we get rubbish like "no upper limits" and later on then a figure of 5000 but no real clarity as to if this is the final figure.

Then to top it all Eamonn Ryan starts spouting that we should take in 40000.

Ryan says we should take 40,000 and Burton says there should be 'no limit' to the amount we take in. I know who I won't be voting for in the next election - or ever.

Nodin · 25-09-2015 8:16pm

deni20000 wrote: »

I heard the official figure is 1 in 6 are Syrian.

Would you happen to have a source for that?

Kivaro · 25-09-2015 9:25pm

The Washington Post has this article today:

Nearly a third of migrants in Germany falsely claim to be Syrian, officials say.

I wonder what Germany thought would happen when Merkel said Germany would probably receive 800,000 asylum seekers this year. They are calling it the "pull" affect (i.e. get in while you can), before the doors would eventually close.

Uncle Ben · 25-09-2015 9:29pm

Kivaro wrote: »

The Washington Post has this article today:

Nearly a third of migrants in Germany falsely claim to be Syrian, officials say.

I wonder what Germany thought would happen when Merkel said Germany would probably receive 800,000 asylum seekers this year. They are calling it the "pull" affect (i.e. get in while you can), before the doors would eventually close.

Interesting to see that Direct Provision could be considered by the Germans according to that article.

Safehands · 25-09-2015 9:34pm

deni20000 wrote: »

Ryan says we should take 40,000 and Burton says there should be 'no limit' to the amount we take in. I know who I won't be voting for in the next election - or ever.

Eamonn Ryan is in the Green party. That crowd are like those low energy ligtbulbs they introduced, not very bright!

foggy_lad · 25-09-2015 10:47pm

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Interesting to see that Direct Provision could be considered by the Germans according to that article.

That won't go down too well with people expecting houses and money not a camp bed in a community centre and food vouchers!

Uncle Ben · 25-09-2015 11:08pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

That won't go down too well with people expecting houses and money not a camp bed in a community centre and food vouchers!

Some of those migrants might have a change of heart.

jank · 26-09-2015 3:50am

Plate said that rather than a “concrete statistic,” the number was an estimate based on the perceptions of authorities on the ground, including the German Federal Police, the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees, and Frontex, Europe’s border agency.

“It is an indication,” he said at a news conference in Berlin, of how hard it is to know the true nationalities of asylum seekers, many of whom arrive without passports

Interesting. Of course those who put 100% of their faith in the authorities to weed out these fraudsters given of course the states failure in the past, well I suppose 'this time' it will be different.

This is interesting...

In an interview Friday with The Washington Post, de Maizière — a longtime ally of Chancellor Angela Merkel and one of the key officials dealing with the refugee crisis in Germany — said Europe needs to enact sweeping changes to its refugee system. He added that German attempts to aid refugees had been misinterpreted by migrants in far-flung nations such as Afghanistan as a green light to come to Europe

What did they expect tbh? A complete mess in the making.

AlekSmart · 26-09-2015 11:46am

Mein Gott !!! :eek:....Coming from a hugely experienced politician,and Cabinet Minister this statement really deserves far more attention !!

In an interview Friday with The Washington Post, de Maizière — a longtime ally of Chancellor Angela Merkel and one of the key officials dealing with the refugee crisis in Germany — said Europe needs to enact sweeping changes to its refugee system. He added that German attempts to aid refugees had been misinterpreted by migrants in far-flung nations such as Afghanistan as a green light to come to Europe

:rolleyes: MISINTERPRETED :rolleyes:

Is Minister Maiziére for real ?

Are he and Angela Merkel now suggesting that they abandoned a functional system and adopted this new response,"just for the craic lad's"...?

It's now looking as if the German Cabinet have quite a deal of explaining to do if they expect the remainder of Europe to buy into their,by now highly wobbly,predictions as to how this stuff will benefit Europe in the mid to long term.

This is now stuff of Father Ted proportions.....:o

Never has a Facepalm smiley been more required on Boards.ie !!!!

KingBrian2 · 26-09-2015 8:54pm

It now has become clear destroying Arab countries is not healthy for Europe. If you broke it you own it. Time for Europe to repair the damage caused by listening to unfriendly advise.:pac:

BlaasForRafa · 27-09-2015 1:14am

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It now has become clear destroying Arab countries is not healthy for Europe. If you broke it you own it. Time for Europe to repair the damage caused by listening to unfriendly advise.:pac:

Do please tell us how "Europe" destroyed Arab countries. How did Ireland destroy Arab countries? How did Hungary destroy Arab countries? How did Croatia destroy Arab countries?

AlekSmart · 27-09-2015 1:16pm

Attempting to debate the Mediterranean Migrant Crisis on these Fora has become quite a Guerrilla tactic procedure,as each thread now appears to be locked down for various reasons,often at quite decisive points in the debates.

With this in mind,and although posting on the relative backwater of "Humanities" I find todays revelation of a new Irish Official Procedure in relation to refugee processing to be significant,for a number of reasons.

Whilst the article,under the byline of Maeve Sheehan,is comprehensive and unbiased,I note,yet again,the irrelevant and questionable use of a photo of yet another distressed young,allegedly Syrian child in a Jordanian refugee camp.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/new-garda-unit-sent-to-overseas-camps-to-interview-refugees-31561362.html

The basics of the piece are quite positive and hopefully showing evidence of a desire to thwart the business plans of the Human Traffickers who,thus far,have made ALL of the running in this "crisis".

Gardai and up to 20 civil servants have been attached to a new unit in the Department of Justice set up last week to oversee the intake of 4,000 refugees to Ireland as the migration crisis deepens.

Of particular importance is the revelation that the GNIB/DoJ Task Force will be focusing on the Refugee Camps adjacent to Syria itself.

The new migrant unit will be responsible for co-ordinating the selection of refugees from camps in Jordan, the Lebanon and Turkey, their transport and where to accommodate them in Ireland.

This is without doubt a sensible and fair approach and one which Ireland should steadfastly maintain,particularly in the face of "Official" imposed EU migrant quota's designed to save Germany's face in the wake of Chancellor Merkel's decisions.

However,with this in mind,we also see that some element of being seen to assist "poor oul Germany" is being maintained,out of political expediency I would imagine.

They may also be selected from registration centres being set up by Germany and Austria on the continent. The department already sent two selection missions to the Lebanon in March and July this year to interview displaced Syrian and Iraqi families who wanted to come here.[/QUOTE]

Another notable element of some reasonableness and commonsense is the DoJ's earlier missions to The Lebanese camps focusing on those imgrants WHO WANTED TO COME HERE.

This factor alone,is I believe of substantial importance if Ireland is to have any hope of managing this German instigated crisis to suit IRELAND's particular needs,rather than Germany,France,Italy's or indeed any other EU member,none of whom have experienced a decade such as we have.

Gardai from the Garda National Immigration Bureau will be involved in vetting the refugees before they are accepted, a process that could take months.

If this process is to have any chance of success,both for Ireland AND the Applicants,the Garda vetting has to be thorough and fair,a process which cannot be "fastracked",if it is to be fit for purpose.

This unavoidable delay will,doubtlessly,be seized on by Refugee Industry Activist groups,as evidence of Irelands cruel,oppressive,inhuman attitude to anybody foreign.

Of the overall figure of 4,000 announced by the Government last Thursday, 520 are currently being resettled to Ireland under a previously agreed programme.

They were selected by staff from the Department of Justice's office for the promotion of migrant integration, working in conjunction with the UN high commissioner for refugees, who travels to refugee camps in places such as Lebanon to interview people of various nationalities.

I remain of the opinion that the originally agreed figure of 520 IS the sustainable and reasonable figure for present day Ireland.

It is clear that the DoJ's resources were being utilised quite sensibly in this,with the only downside being the lack of zero's in the big-figure,which Politicians became a bit fraught over in the face of a concerted Media driven campaign demanding ACTION to respond to the "crisis".

I contend that Ireland should have used it's Opt-Out,whilst pointing directly to it's already agreed extra numbers contained within the 520 and it's €600,000,000 Oveseas Aid Budget,maintained in the face of one of the largest financial collapses of any Developed Country.

Ireland,and it's people have NOTHING to be ashamed of in it's response to this Mediterranean Migrant Crisis.

DeadHand · 27-09-2015 1:31pm

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It now has become clear destroying Arab countries is not healthy for Europe. If you broke it you own it. Time for Europe to repair the damage caused by listening to unfriendly advise.:pac:

And what are their brothers in the culturally similar gulf Arab countries doing about it? Precisely zero despite their immense wealth.

Why?

Because this unresisted invasion is bringing Sunni Islam to Europe on a scale and with an ease that the Moors or Ottomans could only dream about. Allowing the faith to strengthen its foothold where it already exists and infect virgin territories through sheer numbers.

Hence, Saudi Arabia will not take "refugees" but will happy pay for the building of mosques in Europe to facilitate the expansion.

It is a valid point that foolish, immoral, illegal Western intervention has been a factor in making the ME the mess it is today. However, the thought that ordinary Europeans and small nations that had nothing to do with the interventions should now be made to suffer as a result and this is somehow justice is ludicrous.

Nodin · 27-09-2015 6:53pm

DeadHand wrote: »

And what are their brothers in the culturally similar gulf Arab countries doing about it? Precisely zero despite their immense wealth. .

They are conservative xenophobic wahabi monarchies. They have little in common with Syria and most Syrians would avoid the place like the plague. They are also quite sectarian in nature which rules out Shia, Druze, Christian and others going there.

DeadHand wrote: »

Because this unresisted invasion is bringing Sunni Islam to Europe on a scale and with an ease that the Moors or Ottomans could only dream about. Allowing the faith to strengthen its foothold where it already exists and infect virgin territories through sheer numbers. .

This is not an "invasion". The people who are arriving are not a monolithic bloc of the same sect of Islam, or even all of the same degree of orthodoxy.

I find your use of the term "infected" in relation to human beings fleeing a war disturbing.

DeadHand wrote: »

Hence, Saudi Arabia will not take "refugees" but will happy pay for the building of mosques in Europe to facilitate the expansion. .

For the reasons mentioned above, nonsense.

DeadHand wrote: »

............ However, the thought that ordinary Europeans and small nations that had nothing to do with the interventions should now be made to suffer as a result and this is somehow justice is ludicrous.

The numbers involved are, relatively, small. I'd suggest that the notion we're going to "suffer" is the more ludicrous one.

KingBrian2 · 27-09-2015 9:30pm

DeadHand wrote: »

And what are their brothers in the culturally similar gulf Arab countries doing about it? Precisely zero despite their immense wealth.

Why?

Because this unresisted invasion is bringing Sunni Islam to Europe on a scale and with an ease that the Moors or Ottomans could only dream about. Allowing the faith to strengthen its foothold where it already exists and infect virgin territories through sheer numbers.

Hence, Saudi Arabia will not take "refugees" but will happy pay for the building of mosques in Europe to facilitate the expansion.

It is a valid point that foolish, immoral, illegal Western intervention has been a factor in making the ME the mess it is today. However, the thought that ordinary Europeans and small nations that had nothing to do with the interventions should now be made to suffer as a result and this is somehow justice is ludicrous.

Muslims are not safe in Saudi Arabia that is why they come here and I notice not a lot of talk about Iraq. It has been mentioned on Boards that Iraqi's are flying out of Baghdad to Athens and onto European destinations. These countries are susceptible to the encroach of ISIS instead of backing off Europe needs to be advising Arab officials how to deal with security in their cities. Soft power can come to bear on these tense situations. Getting secular Arab nations working together.

jank · 28-09-2015 12:24am

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Muslims are not safe in Saudi Arabia that is why they come here and I notice not a lot of talk about Iraq. It has been mentioned on Boards that Iraqi's are flying out of Baghdad to Athens and onto European destinations. These countries are susceptible to the encroach of ISIS instead of backing off Europe needs to be advising Arab officials how to deal with security in their cities. Soft power can come to bear on these tense situations. Getting secular Arab nations working together.

How many of these are left? 1, maybe 2?

Irelands Mediterranean Migrant Crisis Response

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