Not really on-topic stuff from "N6 - Galway City Outer Bypass" thread

annfield1978 · 27-09-2013 10:19am

Have the Engineering Consultants been appointed for this yet?

antoobrien · 27-09-2013 10:43am

annfield1978 wrote: »

Have the Engineering Consultants been appointed for this yet?

There's work in progress on updating/extending the EIS.

GalwayMagpie · 27-09-2013 11:37am

antoobrien wrote: »

There's work in progress on updating/extending the EIS.

So have the tenders that were put out at the beginning of the summer been awarded?

Frank Black · 01-10-2013 2:17pm

GalwayMagpie wrote: »

So have the tenders that were put out at the beginning of the summer been awarded?

The Consultants for this scheme have not been appointed yet. The Tender return date is 25th October - assuming no extensions to the Tender Period.
I would imagine it will take a minimum of a month to assess the submissions and appoint.
There's a 3 year period in the Contract to bring the scheme through all the preliminary design phases - this is not a case of amending the previous EIS, but of going right back to Constraints Study Stage.

Given the likelihood of this scheme being brought to the European Commission there could be a considerably extended planning permission period than what would normally be expected from a scheme which goes before Bord Pleanala. Allow a year for this would bring the scheme up to start of 2018 before specimen design and contract documents could be produced and a tender run - allow at least another 6 months for this and award.

So, by my calculations, you would be looking at mid-2018 as an absolute best case scenario for construction work to commence with perhaps 2.5 year construction period - so 2021 for an optimistic but unlikely opening year.

GalwayMagpie · 12-11-2013 10:12am

We're Back Baby!!!!

http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/1738-council-renews-aim-to-have-bypass-open-by-2019

The Galway City Outer Bypass is now back on the table with new consultants to be in place by the end of the month and a fresh application where all route options will be re-examined likely to be made in early 2015 for the €300m project.

Galway City Councillors last night voted to hand Galway County Council status as lead authority over the scheme, which at the earliest – if no further obstacles were encountered – could be completed by 2019.

I shall now commence holding my breath until this is built....

what_traffic · 12-11-2013 12:02pm

GalwayMagpie wrote: »

http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/1738-council-renews-aim-to-have-bypass-open-by-2019

"
Galway City Councillors last night voted to hand Galway County Council status as lead authority over the scheme, which at the earliest – if no further obstacles were encountered – could be completed by 2019.
"

Were the County Council not the lead authority over the previous failed scheme as well?

antoobrien · 12-11-2013 12:13pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Were the County Council not the lead authority over the previous failed scheme as well?

They were, this is a PR exercise.

Frank Black · 12-11-2013 12:31pm

antoobrien wrote: »

They were, this is a PR exercise.

It's hardly a PR exercise, it's because some of the study area is in Galway City and some in Galway County so one authority needs to be appointed as lead.

antoobrien · 12-11-2013 12:39pm

Frank Black wrote: »

It's hardly a PR exercise, it's because some of the study area is in Galway City and some in Galway County so one authority needs to be appointed as lead.

It's funny that Galway Co Council were the authority that the NRA were dealing with and made the application to ABP.

So yeah, this stinks of a PR exercise the year before a local election.

veryangryman · 12-11-2013 12:52pm

antoobrien wrote: »

It's funny that Galway Co Council were the authority that the NRA were dealing with and made the application to ABP.

So yeah, this stinks of a PR exercise the year before a local election.

Am i the only one who was thinking (up to now) that ABP stood for "Anti Bypass"?

antoobrien · 12-11-2013 1:10pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Am i the only one who was thinking (up to now) that ABP stood for "Anti Bypass"?

In fairness to them, they did give permission for part of it.

Iwannahurl · 12-11-2013 1:37pm

GalwayMagpie wrote: »

We're Back Baby!!!!

http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/1738-council-renews-aim-to-have-bypass-open-by-2019

I shall now commence holding my breath until this is built....

Until 2019?

Is there an election due around then as well, by any chance?

Iwannahurl · 12-11-2013 1:48pm

Frank Black wrote: »

It's hardly a PR exercise, it's because some of the study area is in Galway City and some in Galway County so one authority needs to be appointed as lead.

It's a new plan, presumably.

It might be worth noting here that the relevant Director of Services in City Hall is moving on, the director of the Galway Transport Unit is on extended leave, and the County Manager is not long away from retiring.

Who'll be minding the shop?

GalwayMagpie · 12-11-2013 2:04pm

I think this is as Frank Black suggested, the tender went out last May/June for "N6 Galway By-pass Multi-disciplinary Engineering Consultancy Services" and some of the lands are in the City and some are in the county.

As for who made the biggest cock up during the last exercise, lets just say that absolutely nobody walks away without some form of a bad odor following them...

http://ireland-tenders.eu/1069_N6_Galway_By-pass_Multi-disciplinary_Engineering_Consultancy_Services_2013_Galway

antoobrien · 12-11-2013 2:06pm

GalwayMagpie wrote: »

I think this is as Frank Black suggested, the tender went out last May/June for "N6 Galway By-pass Multi-disciplinary Engineering Consultancy Services" and some of the lands are in the City and some are in the county.

The reason the city tendered that is because the portions of the proposed road the effect the SACs & NHAs in the area are mostly within the city boundry.

antoobrien · 13-11-2013 10:11am

Frank Black wrote: »

It's hardly a PR exercise, it's because some of the study area is in Galway City and some in Galway County so one authority needs to be appointed as lead.

There's more detail about what happened Monday night in today's Galway independent. The City Council gave the CoCo the right to control the parts of the proposed road that go through city council lands (not a whole lot).

Galway County Council will now take the lead on the project, after city councillors voted to approve a Section 85 Agreement under the Local Government Act, 2001 to allow the county council take charge of those parts of the road that will fall inside the city boundaries. Mr Gilmore said that the designers will now go back to the drawing board as regards the bypass route.

“It may be on the same route, it may not,” he said, adding that the council had identified a number of areas where the original design my be improved

Frank Black · 13-11-2013 1:40pm

antoobrien wrote: »

There's more detail about what happened Monday night in today's Galway independent. The City Council gave the CoCo the right to control the parts of the proposed road that go through city council lands (not a whole lot).

Yep - it's fairly standard part of the statutory process when a scheme goes through a number of different local authorities - not really a PR exercise. The job will be run out of the Regional Design Office in Ballybrit with a dedicated team anyway - so it's not even a major issue which authority is lead.

antoobrien · 13-11-2013 1:44pm

Frank Black wrote: »

The job will be run out of the Regional Design Office in Ballybrit with a dedicated team anyway - so it's not even a major issue which authority is lead.

It has been run from there for years. Like I said, PR exercise.

what_traffic · 13-11-2013 2:30pm

Frank Black wrote: »

Yep - it's fairly standard part of the statutory process when a scheme goes through a number of different local authorities - not really a PR exercise. The job will be run out of the Regional Design Office in Ballybrit with a dedicated team anyway - so it's not even a major issue which authority is lead.

The previous scheme was done from here as well. Would tend to agree with antoobrien. It is PR filler; add information to bulk up the story. It's following exact same process as the previous scheme. The most useful information from Frank Gilmore's quotes in the piece(in the Sentinel 12-11-2013 not online) though is the possible change at the N17 crossing(additional junction) from the original scheme and different type of junction at Garraun.

antoobrien · 13-11-2013 2:38pm

what_traffic wrote: »

The previous scheme was done from here as well. Would tend to agree with antoobrien. It is PR filler; add information to bulk up the story. It's following exact same process as the previous scheme. The most useful information from Frank Gilmore's quotes in the piece(in the Sentinel 12-11-2013 not online) though is the possible change at the N17 crossing(additional junction) from the original scheme and different type of junction at Garraun.

This is also in the galway independent article (I linked earlier), but I didn't think that it was relevant given that this is an off-topic thread;).

Frank Black · 13-11-2013 3:39pm

antoobrien wrote: »

It has been run from there for years. Like I said, PR exercise.

I think there's some confusion as to what's being described as a PR exercise.
Is it the appointment of Galway County County as the lead authority, which is just part of the statutory process, or the reporting of the appointment?

I don't really get the 'PR exercise' bit tbh. The scheme is at a new milestone. Prefered Consultants have been identified and will be appointed in a couple of weeks and the scheme will commence (yet again) down the NRA project management guidlelines route (Constraints, Route Selection, EIS).

What's PR about reporting on this?

antoobrien · 13-11-2013 4:03pm

Frank Black wrote: »

I think there's some confusion as to what's being described as a PR exercise.
Is it the appointment of Galway County County as the lead authority, which is just part of the statutory process, or the reporting of the appointment?

All of it. Galway Co Co was already doing the donkey work, the city council were doing bits that related to the portions that passed through areas that they controlled.

There is very little actual difference in what's going on with this change. The CoCo are still directing the work that will go on within the city boundary, however now they will also be doing it, rather than waiting for the city council to do so.

And at the end of the day, the same people could end up doing the work anyway, since the CoCo would be stupid not to leverage the existing experience.

Frank Black · 13-11-2013 4:12pm

antoobrien wrote: »

All of it. Galway Co Co was already doing the donkey work, the city council were doing bits that related to the portions that passed through areas that they controlled.

There is very little actual difference in what's going on with this change. The CoCo are still directing the work that will go on within the city boundary, however now they will also be doing it, rather than waiting for the city council to do so.

And at the end of the day, the same people could end up doing the work anyway, since the CoCo would be stupid not to leverage the existing experience.

But this is a new scheme. The previous scheme is dead.
So the process of appointing Galway County Council as lead authority is part of the statutory process, namely Section 85 of the Local Government Act, 2001, which must be followed, Given the reasons the previous scheme failed, it's probably the exact opposite of a 'PR exercise', and I'm surprised to hear it being described as such.

antoobrien · 13-11-2013 4:33pm

Frank Black wrote: »

But this is a new scheme. The previous scheme is dead.

Nope. Still active. They have decided that there will have to be changes, but that doesn't "kill" anything.

Frank Black wrote: »

So the process of appointing Galway County Council as lead authority is part of the statutory process, namely Section 85 of the Local Government Act, 2001, which must be followed

According to the city council website this was done in 2004.

This Project is being undertaken by Galway County Council on its own behalf and on behalf of Galway City Council in accordance with the agreement made on the 28th June 2004 under section 85 of the Local Government Act 2001 and approved by the national roads Authority under Section 14(8) of the Roads Act, 1993.

Pure PR excercise.

Frank Black · 13-11-2013 4:48pm

antoobrien wrote: »

Nope. Still active. They have decided that there will have to be changes, but that doesn't "kill" anything. .

I'm afraid you're misinformed.

The scheme is starting all the way back at the begining of the PMG's as I have posted earlier. Perhaps some of the previous information gathered can be used to inform this scheme's design, but very little. Some of the GI is still perhaps relevant, but all the other surveys and constraints mapping carried out for the previous scheme is far too old to be relied on.

This is to all intents and purposes a new scheme to bypass Galway.

antoobrien wrote: »

According to the city council website this was done in 2004.

Pure PR excercise.

Yes, it was - for the previous scheme.

This is a new scheme.

antoobrien · 13-11-2013 4:49pm

Frank Black wrote: »

This is a new scheme.

Neither the city or council council can scrap an NRA scheme, so where are you getting this rubbish out of?

They don't need to "ceed control" again in order to come up with a new route.

Frank Black · 13-11-2013 4:56pm

antoobrien wrote: »

Neither the city or council council can scrap an NRA scheme, so where are you getting this rubbish out of?

What bit are you having trouble understanding.
The NRA only fund schemes - it's was never the NRA's scheme.
Besides, NRA are totally behind the scheme starting from afresh.

In terms of 'where am I getting this rubbish out of' - you could have a look in the procurement documents for new Consulantts which GCC advertised on e-tenders. I've posted previously on the thread about what they've advertised (the development of a new scheme) and I'd wager I've more understanding of the process than you.

antoobrien · 13-11-2013 4:59pm

Frank Black wrote: »

What bit are you having trouble understanding.
The NRA only fund schemes - it's was never the NRA's scheme.
Besides, NRA are totally behind the scheme starting from afresh.

What a laugh - NRA are the body responsible for building national roads. They hand off the particulars to LAs but EVERY national road is an NRA scheme and has been since 1993.

Frank Black · 13-11-2013 5:02pm

antoobrien wrote: »

What a laugh - NRA are the body responsible for building national roads. They hand off the particulars to LAs but EVERY national road is an NRA scheme and has been since 1993.

You're actually wrong. i don't really have time to get into the semantics of why right now and it would be a very boring discussion anyway.

But tbh, it's not really the point is it? I take it you've accepted that the scheme is a new one then?

antoobrien · 13-11-2013 5:14pm

Frank Black wrote: »

You're actually wrong. i don't really have time to get into the semantics of why right now and it would be a very boring discussion anyway.

But tbh, it's not really the point is it? I take it you've accepted that the scheme is a new one then?

That's straight out of the AH playbook, well done.

Changing the route does not make it a new scheme.

Btw where you really went wrong was your "knowledge" about the NRA.

Mission Statement
Improve quality of life and national economic competitiveness by developing, maintaining and operating the national road network in a safe, cost effective and sustainable manner.

The National Roads Authority (NRA) was formally established as an independent statutory body under the Roads Act, 1993 with effect from 1 January, 1994.

The Authority's primary function, under the Roads Act 1993, is to secure the provision of a safe and efficient network of National roads. For this purpose, it has overall responsibility for the planning, supervision of construction, road network management and maintenance on National roads.

Responsibilities of the Authority
The NRA has a number of specific functions under the Act, including:

Preparing, or arranging for the preparation of road designs, management and maintenance programmes and schemes for the provision of traffic signs and Intelligent Transport Systems (ITS) on national roads
Securing the carrying out of the management of construction, improvement and maintenance works on national roads
Allocating and paying grants for national roads, and training, research or testing activities in relation to any of its functions
The NRA has a general power to direct the road authority to "do any other thing which arises out of or is consequential on or is necessary or expedient for the purposes of or would facilitate the construction or maintenance of a national road".

The NRA may give specific directions to local road authorities relating to a number of matters, including motorway schemes; applications for a bridge orders; acquiring land by compulsory purchaser orders; preparing Environmental Impact Statements (EIS), and entering into contracts for and/or undertaking specified construction or maintenance works.ing specified construction or maintenance works.

It was always an NRA project and they directed Galway Co Co & Galway City Co to plan and build it. This has not changed.

Not really on-topic stuff from "N6 - Galway City Outer Bypass" thread

Comments