BESS Thread

pollytcd · 24-05-2006 3:29pm

Yikes... nearly finished... just two left... How ye guys getting on.

Know what ya mean by Economics... yikes massive.
Any more tips...

And...
What the story on schols are they changing it?

24-05-2006 3:40pm

Changing it?

Thirdfox · 24-05-2006 3:51pm

Moving the system to end of second year results is what I think pollytcd meant.

I heard it was still in consultation stage... hopefully the system won't change.

24-05-2006 3:55pm

Ah. No, no decisions have been made yet.

BessBoy · 24-05-2006 6:00pm

Why would it be so bad? sure the pomp and circumstance is nice to see, but whatever.

Thirdfox · 24-05-2006 6:12pm

Well I think that to move it into the "no-one needs to apply" category really cheapens the whole thing. The specialness of having to commit yourself to the extra work seems... well rather special

But I do see the pragmatic argument - less work for lecturers, also less stress for students.

24-05-2006 6:18pm

The argument being put forward is that the best students aren't getting Schols, that some students get 70 - 80% in the SF annual exams but never go for Schols.

It could be seen that having them at the end of the year could make more students do them, or less.

Thirdfox · 24-05-2006 6:25pm

Less? How so? Would the "schols" exam be consumed and replaced with just the end of year exam in 2nd year? (For law students we need to do the 4 subjects from 2nd year and 1 from 1st year, is this similar to other subjects?) And what about the 3rd years (and 1st years for that matter

)? Do they lose the chance to do schols?

Pet · 24-05-2006 8:15pm

Myth wrote:

The argument being put forward is that the best students aren't getting Schols, that some students get 70 - 80% in the SF annual exams but never go for Schols.

It could be seen that having them at the end of the year could make more students do them, or less.

The way I see it, a lot of rich students, or students from Dublin, wouldn't really need the scholarship because their parents will pay for their accommodation and whatever, whereas students with less money will push themselves to get schols for all the financial benefits.
But if the schols exams are based on end-of-year results, then a lot of these rich/Dublin students (who wouldn't have to work part time during the year or travel up and down from the country every weekend, and hence would have more free time to study) will get it anyways, even though they don't really need or want it. Which I think is silly and unfair.

Do you think it will be changed for the 2006/2007 year, Dónal?

Awayindahils · 24-05-2006 8:25pm

Pet wrote:

The way I see it, a lot of rich students, or students from Dublin, wouldn't really need the scholarship because their parents will pay for their accommodation and whatever, whereas students with less money will push themselves to get schols for all the financial benefits.
But if the schols exams are based on end-of-year results, then a lot of these rich/Dublin students (who wouldn't have to work part time during the year or travel up and down from the country every weekend, and hence would have more free time to study) will get it anyways, even though they don't really need or want it. Which I think is silly and unfair.

Do you think it will be changed for the 2006/2007 year, Dónal?

Pet what are you on about. yeah there are a couple of rich students, there are always going to be some. But as for Dublin students who don't have to work during the year, what the hell are you on? I know you live in halls so you mainly only see non-dublin people but most dublin people i know have a part time job.

I'm still going for schols next year despite living in Dublin no matter what time of the year its at.

And there is no garuntee that people who live at home will get it over those who live in halls, or those who don't work will get it over those who do. I've heard decent arguments for and against the changing of schols but that is just pathetic.

Crash · 24-05-2006 8:26pm

Its not a fricking grant pet. what do you want, schols to be means tested?

Pet · 24-05-2006 8:41pm

Thank you, I know it's not a grant, and I'm aware it's more than just a financial benefit. But that's still a big part of it.

I'm still going for schols next year despite living in Dublin no matter what time of the year its at.

If it was between you and student X from the country (ie you both got the same marks), I'd rather see student X get schols. You can easily commute from home, a student from the country can't.

But as for Dublin students who don't have to work during the year, what the hell are you on? I know you live in halls so you mainly only see non-dublin people but most dublin people i know have a part time job.

I didn't say that, you misunderstand.
Rich students: will get their accommodation paid for and won't have to work during the year, hence will have more free time to study.
Dublin students: can live at home and don't need accommodation; also don't have to waste time at weekends travelling long distances, probably don't have to spend time doing various tasks like shopping, cooking, cleaning etc, and hence have more free time to study.

And it's not a pathetic argument; it may not be a great one but it holds weight. The way things are at the moment, with a separate schols exam for those who are determined to do it, is the best imho.

Crash · 24-05-2006 8:45pm

Lets actually just have country people quotas for schols, that'll sort it out best.

Pet · 24-05-2006 8:52pm

Or, let's just leave things the way they are, because that seems to work just fine for all concerned??

shay_562 · 24-05-2006 10:30pm

But if the schols exams are based on end-of-year results, then a lot of these rich/Dublin students (who wouldn't have to work part time during the year or travel up and down from the country every weekend, and hence would have more free time to study) will get it anyways, even though they don't really need or want it.

So...Dublin people automatically do better in exams...because they're from Dublin? I'm deeply confused, but meh.

The argument being put forward is that the best students aren't getting Schols, that some students get 70 - 80% in the SF annual exams but never go for Schols.

Just as a question - from what I've heard, they tend to mark Schols with a clear idea in mind of how many people in the year can be awarded firsts, and mark people down if the class on average is doing too well. So given that that number is pretty small (ie, 4 from BESS, a class of nearly 200), if they're scaling down the entire class' grades to make sure too many don't get it, doesn't that mean that people will be doing worse on their end of year exams as a result? Given that, ordinarily, more than 0.2% of people would get a first. I'm not sure if I'm phrasing this right, but it's something that strikes me as odd.

I kinda like the fact that Schols is a seperate exam; from a purely selfish perspective, it narrows the field somewhat, but from a more altruistic viewpoint, it means that the people who get Schols aren't just the ones who do well in exams, they're the ones who do well in exams and are willing to sit extra exams at an awkward time for potentially no reward at all. I'd rather see the scholarships going to someone who might be a percentage point or two lower in an end of year exam, but who's motivated enough to actually work for and follow through on Schols (given that, from what I've seen, lots of people sign up but don't sit them) rather than just turning up in June and hoping for the best. Oh, and going back to the selfish thing, it would also mean an end to exemptions, which means no 6-month summer vacation as a consolation prize. Which is a bad thing.

Pet · 24-05-2006 10:36pm

So...Dublin people automatically do better in exams...because they're from Dublin? I'm deeply confused, but meh.

...

No. They probably have more free time in which to study, however. Please go back and read post 116.

Cuckoo made a post a few months ago about why some people are hacks and some people don't get involved in college at all, and she mentioned a few different types of Trinity student (I can't get it as searching is disabled)..

One of these types of students was the "living away from home, surviving by themself" type of student, who works long hours to pay for rent, food etc, in addition to going to college and studying in the evenings. This type of student would not be able to compete with the aforementioned rich/Dublin types, who will have much more free time to study for summer exams. It just seems that this proposed new system of schols will disenfranchise the really hard-working students who really need (and tend to go for) the benefits that a scholarship brings, and work hard right from the start to get in there at Easter with the select few who care enough to give up their Easter holidays to sit the exams.

I can't make myself any clearer than that.

shay_562 · 24-05-2006 10:44pm

No. They MAY however have more free time in which to study. Please go back and read post 116.

But equally, I'm sure there are rich country students who don't have to spend time working and poor Dublin students who do, so making blanket assumptions that the people in Dublin have it easier is somewhere between misguided and insulting. And post 116...that'd be the one you edited after I made my last post, yes?

Pet · 24-05-2006 10:52pm

I'm sure there are rich country students who don't have to spend time working

Yes. They come under "rich students".

so making blanket assumptions that the people in Dublin have it easier

If you:

-are from Dublin
-are within reasonable commuting distance from college
-live at home with parents,

then YES, you WILL have it easier than students who live by themselves in rented accommodation, doing their own cooking, shopping, laundy, etc etc. You will have more free time because your parents will do your shopping, laundry etc, you WON'T have to work to pay for your food, you'll save time and money every day..

(And by the way, this entire view is not influenced by my own personal circumstances, I'm lucky enough that my dad supports me financially and I have no complaints there. This is concern based on other people I know.)

gilroyb · 24-05-2006 11:35pm

Schol is to ensure that the best students who attend Trinity get the best opportunities available. It is intended to be entirely meritocratic.

Many country students are living in Dublin city centre, while those Dublin students who live at home have a 1 or 2 hour a day round trip commute.

By making Schol part of the end of year exam it helps ensure that Trinity gives to those who have the greatest talent. If someone can put in absolutely no effort and still get a first, that person is still an ideal target for schol from Trinity's point of view.

I know a number of people who got a first in their end of year exams in 2nd year but who were too unsure of themselves to go for Schol.

I'd be a bit careful about saying that the current system is good while the end of year system would be bad, seeing as medicine scholars at the moment are selected based almost entirely on exams which make up their end of year results.

25-05-2006 11:55am

Thirdfox wrote:

Less? How so? Would the "schols" exam be consumed and replaced with just the end of year exam in 2nd year? (For law students we need to do the 4 subjects from 2nd year and 1 from 1st year, is this similar to other subjects?) And what about the 3rd years (and 1st years for that matter )? Do they lose the chance to do schols?

Someone being discussed is the possibility of having extra exams on top of the normal end of year exams in order to compete for Schols, so that you would show your intellectual might for the 'normal' annual exams, and then in the other ones as well.

Would have made more sense if I had included that in my post

And for the JS'ers, it was mentioned how it would be for SF only. But that was what I heard some time ago, I'm sure David Rickard reads boards and will contribute accordingly. *waves*

Thirdfox · 25-05-2006 12:41pm

Ah okay, that makes it easier to accept (one would still have to do something "extra" to be in consideration for schols).

gilroyb · 25-05-2006 1:22pm

I've heard of yet another Economics lecturer who's going to be missing next year. I actually don't see how the department is going to be kept running next year, they would be just as well to turn off the lights and come back to it in 2007/08.

Is there anyone here who's doing a dissertation for their final year next year? I'd be interested to know what supervisors they've managed to get.

Right_Side · 25-05-2006 1:24pm

gilroyb wrote:

I've heard of yet another Economics lecturer who's going to be missing next year. I actually don't see how the department is going to be kept running next year, they would be just as well to turn off the lights and come back to it in 2007/08.

Is there anyone here who's doing a dissertation for their final year next year? I'd be interested to know what supervisors they've managed to get.

Who is going besides Prof. Ruane?

gilroyb · 25-05-2006 2:03pm

Right_Side wrote:

Who is going besides Prof. Ruane?

Well I don't think the mods would like if I put up names, but there seem to be at least four other high profile lecturers either moving on from Trinity or else going on Sabatical for the year, with a number of rumours about one or two more. I presume that the information regarding the five leaving is intended to be public knowledge, but perhaps the other few are still going to happen but are just being kept quiet for the moment. That's why I was interested in seeing who's been lined up as dissertation supervisors as they would not take this upon themselves if they were not going to be here.

As an aside, the lecturers leaving are all moving on to bigger and better things, so it shows Trinity has a good ability for supporting growth of its academics. For those who had these lecturers this year but will have to do without them next year and in the coming years, remember,
" 'tis better to have learned and lost, then never to have learned at all "

Right_Side · 25-05-2006 2:10pm

gilroyb wrote:

Well I don't think the mods would like if I put up names, but there seem to be at least four other high profile lecturers either moving on from Trinity or else going on Sabatical for the year, with a number of rumours about one or two more. I presume that the information regarding the five leaving is intended to be public knowledge, but perhaps the other few are still going to happen but are just being kept quiet for the moment. That's why I was interested in seeing who's been lined up as dissertation supervisors as they would not take this upon themselves if they were not going to be here.

As an aside, the lecturers leaving are all moving on to bigger and better things, so it shows Trinity has a good ability for supporting growth of its academics. For those who had these lecturers this year but will have to do without them next year and in the coming years, remember,
" 'tis better to have learned and lost, then never to have learned at all "

What courses do they currently teach?

Stargal · 25-05-2006 2:18pm

gilroyb wrote:

Well I don't think the mods would like if I put up names

Why not? There's no reason not to put it up.

fookchooknooris · 25-05-2006 2:25pm

I think giving people that perform best in annual rather than inscholarship exams schols is a really good idea for some reasons. I know a lot of people, mostly girls, that always get firsts in their exams, but they get MASSIVELY stressed and pyscho at exam time. This is why they'd never voluntarily take exams they didn't have to. And in combination with massive female insecurity..... also, I personally think girls are less likely to take the exams then guys (but I suppose I could research this and find out) because girls wouldn't like to be seen as "I'm so smart I think I'll do schols and get them".

However, I think the tradition and pomp associtated with the schlorship exams is a good thing. The people that get scholarship should be the type of arogant, wannabe intellectual types. So having it in easter kinda seperates the nerdy from the nerdy arogant types. Well actualyl maybe that's a bad thing!

The only issue is see is the scholarship exam is tradionally more difficult then the annual, would they put optional questions on the annual for potential scholars? It would also save money maybe, less exams to set out and correct... And the final issue is annual exam excemptions, they'd probably cease to exist.

fookchooknooris · 25-05-2006 2:27pm

Also I wouldn't support any changes to the criteria other then being badass in exams. Taking into account a persons geographical location or any other bull**** is ****ing stupid.

gilroyb · 25-05-2006 2:33pm

stargal wrote:

Why not? There's no reason not to put it up.

Right so, I've reliably heard that Matthews is going on Sabatical, Newman on sabatical (perhaps working in another insitution for the period), Minns to another institution. I've also heard persistant rumours about another young member of staff, but although the person who told me said they were 100% sure, I am not entirely convinced so I'll avoid that name. Also as is known Ruane is moving upwards and onwards also. There are other rumours about another one or two members of staff, but such rumours are always present and I'd be surprised if they are true.

As regards up and coming talent this is a fairly sizable group, and if one looks at the classes each teaches it becomes apparent that a large chunk of the teaching staff is to be unavailable next year.

If you're worried about a class for next year because you based your choice on the lecturer, I'd advise waiting till the term starts up and seeing whether the lecturer has changed and if so whether the course has changed. It's possible that they will avoid altering the sylibus and perhaps the new lecturers will be even better. Perhaps.

Time Magazine · 25-05-2006 2:59pm

gilroyb wrote:

Newman on sabatical (perhaps working in another insitution for the period)

.

How could our dear Carol do this to us?

I was thinking of asking her to be my tutor and all...

Running Bing · 25-05-2006 3:29pm

gilroyb wrote:

Newman on sabatical

Cant comment on the others but thats a loss. great lecturer.

BessBoy · 25-05-2006 8:51pm

indeed. wheres she off to?

any others going in the faculty, or whatever it is now

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 25-05-2006 9:34pm

love the way John Fingleton has done so good since leaving Trinity economics. Once economist in TCD, then head of Competition Auth in Ireland, now head of Competition Auth in UK. Rock on!

pollytcd · 26-05-2006 1:27pm

Yikes, what did i start. The whole schols thing changing like that wont be as nice.

The whole dub/country thing is pretty straighforward. Regardless of how rich one is, there is a more stable study environment from home.

And before you ask...

yes i am a galway girl... so my opinion is prob judged as one sided...

See ye guys at the End of Exams Cele's if not next year.

Pol.

Nietzschean · 26-05-2006 1:51pm

pollytcd wrote:

there is a more stable study environment from home.

What now? i do absolutely no work anytime i'm ever at home(which is clare.....)....home = home comferts = relaxing = non-study for me anyway...

mizz.yelof!!! · 26-05-2006 3:38pm

god how hatefull is economics?!!! argh! aw grrrr tho its so annoying, like i mean econ is the one subject i actually really need to work in yet ive done nothing at all today i just dont seem to care which is terrible as it means i gonna be back in september, poooo to that anyway!!! anyone else in the smae boat or am i correct in thinking that friggin economics seems to come naturaly to eveyone else in JF BESS accept me, cause that what it bloody well feels like. errr!

pollytcd · 26-05-2006 3:42pm

I mean going to college from home everyday as compared to living with students... Well personally for me I know it would make a difference... depends on alot... parents etc.

Think about it?

Anyway!

Well, all JF Eco students are prob relaxing at the moment... and with the rep us BESS girls have we are prob shopping for tomorrow night's outfit and doing our fake tan...

if any eco students are online what chapter from Micro are we to know>? have lists taken down but kinda not sure.... not to worry if not...

C ya. Pol

Nietzschean · 26-05-2006 4:04pm

pollytcd wrote:

I mean going to college from home everyday as compared to living with students... Well personally for me I know it would make a difference... depends on alot... parents etc.

does that not more depend on who you live with? and even then not really i've never studied at home no matter where i've lived...always use a library or somewhere.......too many ways to dos off at home.... divx ftw.

Hermione* · 26-05-2006 4:08pm

Nietzschean wrote:

What now? i do absolutely no work anytime i'm ever at home(which is clare.....)....home = home comforts = relaxing = non-study for me anyway...

Ditto. To the extent that my Dad even told me if I thought it was better for my studies not to come home at Easter, they wouldn't mind. When I go home, I'm not even there for 48 hours, and generally I spend so much time lazing about reading all their broadsheets, having meals cooked for me, being taken to lunch, watching rugby matches, going to matches, essential post-match drinking....no matter what my intentions, the only studying that gets done is on the train. :rolleyes:

Nietzschean · 26-05-2006 4:10pm

thats more or less me too, though i don't even get the train study as i usually drive

Time Magazine · 26-05-2006 4:11pm

mizz.yelof!!! wrote:

god how hatefull is economics?!!! argh!

Dude it's like so totally not hateful at all loike roight. Cop on to yourself gurl! Loike don't pull a Mellisa on us. LOLZ!!!1!!!!one!!!!sqrt(-1^2)!!!!loike!!!

aw grrrr tho its so annoying, like i mean econ is the one subject i actually really need to work in yet ive done nothing at all today i just dont seem to care which is terrible as it means i gonna be back in september, poooo to that anyway!!!

Loike totally poooo to that. I mean like, you know roight? It's tragic that you have to loike totally study for these exams. I mean don't they know you've been like soo busy all year? I think we should loike complain or something. Or maybe doddy might be able to swing something your way loike. Loike in that story about Ross where his doddy loike totally swung something his way. That was a legend spot. Oisin is loike so totally my idol. It's such a hot name.

anyone else in the smae boat or am i correct in thinking that friggin economics seems to come naturaly to eveyone else in JF BESS accept me, cause that what it bloody well feels like.

I loike don't think you'll be roightly accepted anywhere roight!! LOLZBEBO! Loike totally loike, how did you get at least 475 points in the Leaving Sort without picking up a few good tips on how to study loike? You at least go to the Onstitute, didn't you?

Totally.

Hermione* · 26-05-2006 4:12pm

Nietzschean wrote:

thats more or less me too, though i don't even get the train study as i usually drive

Spoilt

I wouldn't want a car for that reason, as too many Sundays I get the train back after a long night's post-match drinking, completely wrecked, and fall asleep on whatever book I'm trying to read for college ... on these occassions, I'm very thankful I get on and off the train at a terminus. :rolleyes:

Pet · 26-05-2006 4:17pm

Angry Banana wrote:

Dude it's like so totally not hateful at all loike roight. Cop on to yourself gurl! Loike don't pull a Mellisa on us. LOLZ!!!1!!!!one!!!!sqrt(-1^2)!!!!loike!!!

Loike totally poooo to that. I mean like, you know roight? It's tragic that you have to loike totally study for these exams. I mean don't they know you've been like soo busy all year? I think we should loike complain or something. Or maybe doddy might be able to swing something your way loike. Loike in that story about Ross where his doddy loike totally swung something his way. That was a legend spot. Oisin is loike so totally my idol. It's such a hot name.

I loike don't think you'll be roightly accepted anywhere roight!! LOLZBEBO! Loike totally loike, how did you get at least 475 points in the Leaving Sort without picking up a few good tips on how to study loike? You at least go to the Onstitute, didn't you?

Totally.

Zing.

Hermione* · 26-05-2006 4:21pm

Angry Banana wrote:

Dude it's like so totally not hateful at all loike roight. Cop on to yourself gurl! Loike don't pull a Mellisa on us. LOLZ!!!1!!!!one!!!!sqrt(-1^2)!!!!loike!!!

Loike totally poooo to that. I mean like, you know roight? It's tragic that you have to loike totally study for these exams. I mean don't they know you've been like soo busy all year? I think we should loike complain or something. Or maybe doddy might be able to swing something your way loike. Loike in that story about Ross where his doddy loike totally swung something his way. That was a legend spot. Oisin is loike so totally my idol. It's such a hot name.

I loike don't think you'll be roightly accepted anywhere roight!! LOLZBEBO! Loike totally loike, how did you get at least 475 points in the Leaving Sort without picking up a few good tips on how to study loike? You at least go to the Onstitute, didn't you?

Totally.

Brilliant!

shay_562 · 26-05-2006 4:25pm

Re: better studying at home, again, there are about 17,000 different variables (slightly exagerrated, but you get the idea). I know people who can't study well at home due to squalling infants disturbing them; I know people who can't study well in student flats as there's too much going on. Travel time home has been mentioned; I personally spend at least an hour and a half every day travelling to and from college, and I know people who live further away than me, whereas if I lived on campus that's 90 minutes I could theoretically devote to studying. It's pointless to try and claim that either Dublin or country students have it easier, since everyone's circumstances are far too different.

Enda...bravo.

mizz.yelof!!! · 26-05-2006 7:17pm

Angry Banana wrote:

Dude it's like so totally not hateful at all loike roight. Cop on to yourself gurl! Loike don't pull a Mellisa on us. LOLZ!!!1!!!!one!!!!sqrt(-1^2)!!!!loike!!!

Loike totally poooo to that. I mean like, you know roight? It's tragic that you have to loike totally study for these exams. I mean don't they know you've been like soo busy all year? I think we should loike complain or something. Or maybe doddy might be able to swing something your way loike. Loike in that story about Ross where his doddy loike totally swung something his way. That was a legend spot. Oisin is loike so totally my idol. It's such a hot name.

I loike don't think you'll be roightly accepted anywhere roight!! LOLZBEBO! Loike totally loike, how did you get at least 475 points in the Leaving Sort without picking up a few good tips on how to study loike? You at least go to the Onstitute, didn't you?

Totally.

im hurt banana, your generalization was quite harsh and definately not helping my worry for tomorrow. i dont talk like those ****head d4 heads and am not oopma loompa orange.
and grrrr no i did not go to the tuite, i hate that place
ouch, and i actually have been trying to like study econ all year but its just hatefull!

Right_Side · 26-05-2006 7:21pm

mizz.yelof!!! wrote:

econ

Hate when people call it that!

For micro the main thing is to know how to plot graphs and the like.

Macro, the first question is usually quite similar each year just do all of them from the past papers.

gilroyb · 26-05-2006 7:24pm

Right_Side wrote:

Hate when people call it that!

Out of interest, do you pronounce it economics or economics?

Right_Side · 26-05-2006 7:25pm

gilroyb wrote:

Out of interest, do you pronounce it economics or economics?

Stargal · 26-05-2006 10:46pm

Angry Banana wrote:

Dude it's like so totally not hateful at all loike roight. Cop on to yourself gurl! Loike don't pull a Mellisa on us. LOLZ!!!1!!!!one!!!!sqrt(-1^2)!!!!loike!!!

Loike totally poooo to that. I mean like, you know roight? It's tragic that you have to loike totally study for these exams. I mean don't they know you've been like soo busy all year? I think we should loike complain or something. Or maybe doddy might be able to swing something your way loike. Loike in that story about Ross where his doddy loike totally swung something his way. That was a legend spot. Oisin is loike so totally my idol. It's such a hot name.

I loike don't think you'll be roightly accepted anywhere roight!! LOLZBEBO! Loike totally loike, how did you get at least 475 points in the Leaving Sort without picking up a few good tips on how to study loike? You at least go to the Onstitute, didn't you?

Ah Enda come on, that's pretty harsh. The girl has hardly ever even been here and that kind of stuff is unfair.

And by the way, when you said Melissa, did you mean Marissa? Cos otherwise I don't get it.

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