Introduction of two way system on Blackthorn Road, Sandyford Industrial Estate

c_kennedy26 · 28-11-2012 11:05am

Dread leaving work today based on whats happening to this estate! It is taking me over 30 minutes just to get out of here! No idea what the DLRCC where thinking!

Kamili · 28-11-2012 11:57am

c_kennedy26 wrote: »

Dread leaving work today based on whats happening to this estate! It is taking me over 30 minutes just to get out of here! No idea what the DLRCC where thinking!

They weren't! It's a complete joke. I left at 6 last night and even though I was going up towards the beacon south quarter and out that way it was still a nightmare.

Nice to know my taxes are being spent wisely...

homer911 · 28-11-2012 12:22pm

Coming through the estate late last night the turn right up Blackthorn Road was closed off.

I can see the Aircoach struggling to turn left towards Stillorgan at this junction - it is way too tight

Hopefully the council will at least improve the sequencing of the lights ASAP. wanted to go from Stillorgan Luas to Sandyford Luas last night and sat at a red light for ages...

Zascar · 28-11-2012 12:39pm

That's a good point. The Aircoach stops there a few times and hour. No room for other cars to pass now, and it can be there for a few mins letting people put their bags in the hold and then paying. A few months ago they tore the place apart to put in a tiny space for max 2 cars to pull in, the Microsoft electric bus is frequently there, but taxi's use it too. Yesterday I saw two taxi's forces to pull up on the grass. Why oh why they did not make it bigger is beyond me. The minuscule filter lane for going left is laughable. Seriously how in the world could this happen with dozens of people in planning meetings, architects etc - did not one suggest it should be bigger? When the traffic backs way back from the Leopardstown roundabout it often gets as far as this junction. At least when there were two lanes you could still turn left in the left lane, now the entire thing will be at a complete standstill with no where to go.

Here are some more people that we can write to about it: http://www.dlrcoco.ie/aboutus/councilbusiness/listofcouncillorsbyelectoralarea/glencullensandyford/index.html

omega666 · 28-11-2012 2:18pm

did anyone write to/get a response from DLRCC yet?

PaulieC · 28-11-2012 5:50pm

I got a response from the SBDA.

Yes, I am very sorry. I have received so manyemails in relation to this issue that I am getting overwhelmed with them.Please accept my apologies. I will pass on your message as I have with all theothers to the council. We are hoping to get an update very soon. In relation tothe works, to date the explanation for the works for the project are that theywill provide improved pedestrian and cycle facilities as well as upgradedsignalised junctions and the re-introduction of two-way traffic along the fulllength of Blackthorn Road. The SBDA have made a number of representation to thecouncil in relation to the issue and have questioned the proposed BlackthornRoad Two Way Proposal. The SBDA have sought and continue to seek from theTransportation Department information in relation to the road proposals and anexplanation to how the proposals were designed, particularly the need for thecarriageway to be two way. We have sought for our members the comfortthat the two way proposal is the best solution for traffic flow in the area andthat it will have no adverse effects on business in the District. We arereiterating this request.

I will keep you updated in relation to this.

Squeaksoutloud · 28-11-2012 6:17pm

Message from SBDA to members:

Dear Member,

Over the last number of weeks we received several queriesfrom the membership in advance of the implementation of a two way traffic flowon Blackthorn Road due to concerns it could negatively impact on traffic flow.Unsurprisingly given the traffic congestion experienced yesterday evening wehave received an unprecedented level of complaints from members in the past 24hours.

SBDA has brought all these complaints to the attention ofDun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council and have requested an urgent meeting withthe relevant representatives to discuss what plans are in place to rectify theproblem

SBDA will keep you updated on progress in relation to thisissue and any response received from Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council.

SBDA would welcome any further emails / comments in relationto this issue.

Many thanks. /QUOTE]
and note from DLRCOCO webpage:

Improving Traffic Flow in Sandyford Industrial Estate from 28 November

28/11/2012

The Traffic Section are proposing to make the full length of Blackthorn Road,in Sandyford Business Park, open to two-way traffic from today 28 November.This is to be achieved by changing the existing section of Blackthorn Road,between Burton Hall Road and Blackthorn Avenue, from one-way to two-way.

Currently new traffic lights are being installed at the Burton Hall Road andBlackthorn Avenue junctions to facilitate this change.

However these lights are working in a temporary set-up at present. This meansthat there will be traffic delays, in the short-term, until the system is fullyoperational./QUOTE]

Patrick O Keefe · 28-11-2012 6:59pm

Madness.
check out http://blackthornroad.weebly.com where I have posted information for people to use as they wish. Let them know how you feel

_Kaiser_ · 28-11-2012 7:52pm

My office window overlooks this new junction and a few things I've noticed in the last few days as they've finished (messing) it (up):

- Constant queue of traffic from lunchtime onwards

- The left filter lane is useless as it starts far too close to the turn

- The light sequence is actually DANGEROUS now for pedestrians. If they come off the Sandyford LUAS and look to cross at AIB, because the right lane is held anyway to allow traffic from Blackthorn Ave they start to cross and only then realise that the LEFT lane is still flowing, unless they've pressed the crossing button

- The right turn onto Blackthorn Ave is too narrow. Watching buses and 40ft trucks negotiate it is bemusing - especially as the lights have gone red again by the time they have

- Every other road out of the estate is now jammed by 5pm as people try other options to escape

The crazy thing is that there is/was ample room to put in a contraflow lane alongside the existing 2 lanes if that's what they wanted to do.
Something did need to be done though as there were constant near misses at the junction with cars flying down the Road and then cutting right/left at the last minute.

Only way this will change is if the business around there (MS, AIB, etc) start complaining. Individuals writing emails and making calls will do nothing. Start complaining to your employer and they're more likely to get a faster more favourable response.

m_stan · 28-11-2012 7:53pm

Here's a basic online petition asking for this change to be revisited and reversed. Please sign it and share via social networks if you feel strongly against this change: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/reverse-the-traffic-management-changes-in-2/

Zascar · 28-11-2012 8:26pm

Might want to check that link, not working for me..

m_stan · 28-11-2012 9:29pm

Zascar wrote: »

Might want to check that link, not working for me..

link updated. something went screwy with the original version

AltAccount · 28-11-2012 10:32pm

Nope, still not working

m_stan · 28-11-2012 10:50pm

worked for a while. the petition site I chose is messing up every time I create one

_Kaiser_ · 29-11-2012 9:09am

m_stan wrote: »

worked for a while. the petition site I chose is messing up every time I create one

Maybe I'm old and cynical but I wouldn't expect some of the dinosaurs that live in our councils to pay any heed to an online petition.
I still think complaining through your employer is the best way to achieve any real result on this - the work is done. They are/have packed up at this stage.

Just watching it at the moment and most cars don't even use the left filter lane at all. If the lights are green, they come flying down BTR and then slide left as they get to the lights themselves. You can fit 2.5 cars in that lane incidentally from what I've seen already today.

Oh and I've seen 1 car take the right turn onto the new contraflow lane in the last 20 mins.

homer911 · 29-11-2012 9:57am

DLR website from yesterday

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/newsevents/latestnews/title,8912,en.html

RE*AC*TOR · 29-11-2012 10:24am

This has totally ****ed traffic in the area. Trying to get out of heather road at 5pm, traffic backed up around the bend.

Have tried various other rat runs, for example down Corrig rd, but they are all backed up as a knock-on effect.

In effect it is adding about 30 minutes to my journey every evening, a distance that could be walked in 5.

Dubl07 · 29-11-2012 10:29am

I'm normally up in the estate area two-three times a week, shopping in Aldi, Dunnes or Woodies or using the AIB. Now I'll be going to Nutgrove and Carrickmines. I know it's tough on those of you who work there, but I also feel sorry for the retailers up there. I'll bet this fiasco will affect their footfall. I'd planned to buy some Christmas gifts in the Beacon, having seen them last week. Not now.

RE*AC*TOR · 29-11-2012 10:54am

I have sent a disgruntled email to the following:
'traffic@dlrcoco.ie'; 'roadprojects@dlrcoco.ie'; 'roadmaintenance@dlrcoco.ie'; 'transportation@dlrcoco.ie'
'sbdassoc@eircom.net'; 'lucinda.creighton@taoiseach.gov.ie'; 'brian.hayes@oir.ie'; 'minister@dttas.ie'
'okeegan@dlrcoco.ie'; 'tmchugh@dlrcoco.ie'; 'adevine@dlrcoco.ie'; 'pwatters@dlrcoco.ie'; 'ghorkan@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'rhumphreys@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'gokeeffe@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'bsaul@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'

Thus far only Verhoeven Albert <averhoeven@DLRCOCO.IE> has responded saying the query had been passed on to Traffic Engineer.

RosieJoe · 29-11-2012 11:30am

Saw my first near accident this morning. Car coming from Woodies, turning right to go down towards Microsoft goes straight into the right hand lane where they are met with a car coming straight for them. No impact but I reckon it's a sign of things to come

inabina · 29-11-2012 5:26pm

traffic backed up badly already...also on carmenhall road. What are these nutters thinking when they do these plans. Really hope they revert back. Stupid. Madness. but nothing is a surprise in this country.

coylemj · 29-11-2012 5:54pm

Drove through today at 15:30 when it should have been a breeze. I drove south-east along Blackthorn Ave. with the Luas line on my left heading for the roundabout at the end of Brewery Road. At the new traffic lights at the junction with Blackthorn Road I was stopped for exactly two minutes and this lead to a massive buildup behind me. Previously the traffic coming down the hill on Blackthorn Road could turn right straight into a lane dedicated to them, they could then seamlessly merge into the left lane if they were heading to the roundabout at the end of Brewery Road. Now both sets of traffic have to go through a brand new bottleneck in the form of a set of traffic lights which wasn't required before.

I pity any retailers or shops in the estate, especially the Chinese Szechuan Restaurant because he is going to lose out badly. Anybody with any sense will avoid the place until they put things back to the way they were.

markpb · 29-11-2012 8:54pm

Absolutely no traffic anywhere in the estate at 5:45 when I was leaving this evening.

omega666 · 30-11-2012 1:50am

markpb wrote: »

Absolutely no traffic anywhere in the estate at 5:45 when I was leaving this evening.

which estate are you talking about?
Because I left at 5:40 and while not as bad as earlier in the week there was still a delay.

RosieJoe · 30-11-2012 11:55am

markpb wrote: »

Absolutely no traffic anywhere in the estate at 5:45 when I was leaving this evening.

omega666 wrote: »

which estate are you talking about?
Because I left at 5:40 and while not as bad as earlier in the week there was still a delay.

I left at 5:50 and there wasn't any delay

Larbre34 · 30-11-2012 12:42pm

coylemj wrote: »

Drove through today at 15:30 when it should have been a breeze. I drove south-east along Blackthorn Ave. with the Luas line on my left heading for the roundabout at the end of Brewery Road. At the new traffic lights at the junction with Blackthorn Road I was stopped for exactly two minutes and this lead to a massive buildup behind me. Previously the traffic coming down the hill on Blackthorn Road could turn right straight into a lane dedicated to them, they could then seamlessly merge into the left lane if they were heading to the roundabout at the end of Brewery Road. Now both sets of traffic have to go through a brand new bottleneck in the form of a set of traffic lights which wasn't required before.

I pity any retailers or shops in the estate, especially the Chinese Szechuan Restaurant because he is going to lose out badly. Anybody with any sense will avoid the place until they put things back to the way they were.

Not a snowballs chance of that.

Its the same with any traffic system change, and God knows there have been enough of them in and around Dublin for the last 20 years, its a few days of chaos until the tweaking is done and then the new pattern settles in, I know its inconvenient for people but you'd think the world was ending. I did get stuck in it the first evening but ive adjusted my routine a bit and itll be much improved within the week

People might as well get used to the fact that the thrust of all Government and state body policy is to put the car at the bottom of the food chain and more and more road space and priority is going to be handed back to buses and bikes and other facilities so it aint ever going to get any better for the private driver. For instance, when the work starts on the Luas connector in the city next year you will effectively not be able to take a car through the centre of town any more and forever after that. Time to break out the Lycra.

homer911 · 30-11-2012 1:12pm

I agree that the new arrangements need a bedding in period, but there are things that they have done wrong and things they can fix immediately

Sitting for a full 2 minutes at the lights beside the luas (with no queue) is unacceptable - they can and should fix this NOW
The lack of co-ordination between these lights and the toucan lights beside Stillorgan Luas stop is unacceptable
The left filter lane after MS is ludicrously short, and the left filter option is useless when there are four or more cars waiting to turn right
Turning left here is dangerous - while they set the stop line for the opposing right turning lane (when you come around this corner) further back, the lane here is far too narrow and I have yet to witness a car take this corner without driving over the solid lines - it could so easily have been made wider with so much space on the side of the road
The absence of a pull-in spot for the Air Coach and buses is unforgivable

Zascar · 30-11-2012 1:28pm

Very well said Homer, my sentiments exactly, there are a few more to add also I'll post later...
AS already said, demanding they revert back is a waste of time - but fixing the above mentioned problems is perfectly achievable...

coylemj · 30-11-2012 6:09pm

Well if they do change the lights so that they operate according to demand and not like old clockwork driven (no flexibility) lights, let's hope that unlike DLR Co. Co. they put wide enough sensors at the lights. The sensors designed to detect people turning right at the junction of Newtownpark Ave and the Monkstown bypass and at Deansrange Cross are way too narrow. If even a VW Polo or similar small car aims properly, they can straddle the sensor without either the left or right wheels hitting it so the lights think there's nobody turning right and only one car gets to go through, no filter for the people behind.

patrickbrophy18 · 01-12-2012 6:46pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

People might as well get used to the fact that the thrust of all Government and state body policy is to put the car at the bottom of the food chain and more and more road space and priority is going to be handed back to buses and bikes and other facilities so it aint ever going to get any better for the private driver. For instance, when the work starts on the Luas connector in the city next year you will effectively not be able to take a car through the centre of town any more and forever after that. Time to break out the Lycra.

Unfortunately, buses will also get held up by the backwards engineering of the road network because they also use the same roads as cars for the most part. In case you didn't notice, there are grass patches between the pedestrian paths and the road itself which would be better suited to the paving of cyclist facilities. This means that the road shape would have remained the same without turning cyclists into obstacles. Eventually (when the economy recovers), underpasses could be provided for pedestrians and cyclists resulting in a conflict free zone for all road users. Hidden cameras and lighting could be installed in the construction phase to ensure that ruffians don't intimidate pedestrians and cyclists using the underpasses.

My sympathy goes out to the motorists who use the M50 to get to Sandyford because they will have to get up earlier to beat the previously non-existent tailbacks. This essentially defeats the purpose of the M50 by adding time to their journeys off it. Moreover, slowing down traffic at crucial points, particularly between major business hubs will put a strain on the flow of business. The purpose of wider roads is to facilitate the smoother flow of business between one hub and another by reducing the journey length time-wise. This creates a stronger link between business hubs and places in general.

While such roads would be used by the private car in the short term, it is hoped that public transport (preferably in the form of bus rapid transit) would be deployed to these roads to reduce car usage in the long term. With traffic calming (pretty much like that in Sandyford), it's merely bus transit and not bus rapid transit. On the broader spectrum, it is a complete joke that it takes an hour in most cases for a bus route to complete a trip that is less than 10 miles in length. This should take half an hour at most. This is one of the main reasons why I strongly disagree with traffic calming on any portion of such routes because it will make them more time consuming. Hence, less attractive. I do acknowledge the fact that excessive stops and neighborhood detours are a major factor as well. Either-way, if the money is not there to create a metro or underground DART system, we should be helping existing bus routes to achieve rapid transit status.

Introduction of two way system on Blackthorn Road, Sandyford Industrial Estate

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