Proposal for restucture of championship

A lot of these proposals seem to be based on the idea that there's no such thing as a dual player, and also that county players have wolverine like recovery powers which will allow them to play a football match every weekend from May to August , while also training for both club and county.

Another poster here mentioned this before but I would be interested in seeing how a shoehorning a system almost identical to the NFL conference structure into a GAA championship would work. 32 teams so New York is out while Kilkenny don't look like they ever have any intention of playing football.
Pre Season

• Provincial championships replace O'Byrne cups etc.

Regular Season

• 8 divisions of 4 teams each based geographically.
• 16 games each for all counties.
• Each team play the teams in their division twice, so for example the likes of Cork and Kerry, Meath and Dublin, Mayo and Galway, Armagh and Down will get to maintain rivalries. 6 games a year there.
• A further 8 games will be played by playing teams from 2 other divisions on a rotating basis.
• The final 2 games to be played against teams from the two divisions not scheduled to meet. These will be based on previous years rankings, e.g If Dublin and Kerry's divisions are not scheduled to meet and they both finished 1st last year they would meet.

Post Season

• 12 teams will make the playoffs.
• The 4 division winners with the highest point totals overall will go straight through to the 1/4 finals.
• The other 4 division winners will play the 4 wildcards to make the 1/4 final. The wildcards are the 4 teams with the highest teams with the highest point totals not to win their group. These matches are to be seeded with the 5th best division winners playing the lowest ranked wildcard entry.

Divisions may end up somewhat uneven but with 10 games against non diviosonal opposition provides some fairness. The winner of a weak division will likely not progress past the last 12 either.



A quick idea of the divisions would be:

Southwest:
Cork, Kerry, Limerick and Clare


South:
Wexford, Waterford, Tipperary, London



South Midlands:
Laois, Offaly, Kildare, Carlow



East:
Wicklow, Dublin, Meath, Louth


North Midlands:
Longford, Cavan, Westmeath, Leitrim


North East:
Down, Antrim, Armagh, Monaghan


North West:
Donegal, Tyrone, Derry, Fermanagh


West:
Galway, Mayo, Sligo, Roscommon


Overall it would be an ambitious plan and the idea of taking a structure from another sport is a bit questionable but I believe it could work.



Advantages would include loads of competitive inter-county football, a fixed calender and the maintaining of local rivalries. Television friendly too.



Disadvantages are that some games may still be massively one sided. Some counties like Kildare and Louth do not have stadiums capable of playing big games in.

Given the number of challenge matches, College games, O'Byrne cup games and league matches played as it stands expecting players to play roughly 20 intercounty games a season is not too much to ask.

One thing that will have to end is players playing for both college and county. They should have to make a decision before the year starts. I would also propose scrapping under 21 level football at inter-county level. Also I would propose teams having to register a panel of roughly 30 players eligible to play at the start of the year with maybe a review week where 3 changes can be made to the panel midseason. Squad numbers could then be introduced.

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Given the number of challenge matches, College games, O'Byrne cup games and league matches played as it stands expecting players to play roughly 20 intercounty games a season is not too much to ask.

One thing that will have to end is players playing for both college and county. They should have to make a decision before the year starts. I would also propose scrapping under 21 level football at inter-county level. Also I would propose teams having to register a panel of roughly 30 players eligible to play at the start of the year with maybe a review week where 3 changes can be made to the panel midseason. Squad numbers could then be introduced.

And players wouldn't be expected to play everything or shouldn't. That's what you use a squad for. I don't think players playing for both college and county should be ended. But better coordination between coaches as to how much players are stretched.
I don't think a squad of 30 should be registered with review weeks is needed.
Squad numbers don't need to be introduced. You then get into messing surrounding finance as players(GPA) could look for money as players will be closely associated with the one jersey... By not having squad numbers you don't have that issue.
What would be benefit of squad numbers?
Under 21 inter county shouldn't be scrapped as its needed as a bridge between minor and senior at inter county level.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Leave it alone

They are professional players playing for their counties and tradition.

All teams are cyclical.

It was Meath, Kerry and Galway, 97-00 Then the rise of Armagh and Tyrone, Then Mayo and Kerry, then the rise of Dublin and Donegal. In the mid 90s it was Dublin, prior to that the Northern teams and Cork. In the early 80s it was Kerry and Offaly.

Different teams will rise and fall. Stop meddling.

Saying there has been no upsets is a dis-service to Louth in the Leinster Final a few years ago or Monaghan beating the All Ireland champions in the opening championship game in 2003.

The back door is the only real change and I think it has benefited the stronger counties more than the weaker ones by giving them a second chance and it should be scrapped.

O

They are not professional players though regardless of how professional their approach is.
The backdoor should only be scrapped if something that gives more games to sides. Yes it probably has benefited stronger counties more than weaker counties but what would you put in place instead of the qualifiers?

The only way to really improve the lot of the player and supporter is to have a meaningful league that runs parallel to the championship. It should have 3 tiers not four and no semis or finals. The constant stream of games will allow proper squad development in the counties that don't progress in championship. I'd keep the current championship structure but have an open draw system. The provincials could be ran as a precursor to allow teams to tune up. Start the league in march, tie in provincials in late march and then start the full championship in end of april, finishing everything in late sept /early october.
Teams will generate a following and extra revenue and have less training and more games. It will also allow new viewers with no allegiance to pick a team and follow them

Thanks to the OP for opening up a very interesting discussion.

I feel that while the intentions are good, the proposal has the appearance of providing a GAA competition which mirrors the Premiership/Champion's League in terms of layout, resulting in most games being televised on a pay-per-view basis and with possible financial remuneration of successful teams/players.

This runs contrary to many aspects of the GAA, where the club championship is (or should be) the basis of the organisation and where the players are amateur. Also, our population base would not allow recuperation of the cost associated with cameras at each game.

It is true that up to this weekend, the 2014 championship has been low on shock value, and it appears that at present, a small number of teams have moved a step ahead of the chasing pack. However, the pack will make up this ground and teams which are dominant at the moment will regress. This is the nature of GAA. Cavan, Tipperary and Roscommon are 3 teams who would hope for certain progression in the next 5-10 years.

I'm also a fan of the provincial championships, even if they are flawed. There is huge attraction in a local derby and much more satisfaction to be taken from beating a near neighbour than a team from the other end of the country (all other things being equal).

On the other hand, there are teams like Carlow and Waterford, for example, whose standards are significantly lower than the main pack and who find it extremely difficult to compete each year. These are the teams who regularly receive large beatings and it must be extremely difficult to motivate these teams for the championship. The Tommy Murphy cup was introduced in 2004 for these weaker counties but it only lasted 5 years. Perhaps something similar needs to be tried, but instead of entry to the Murphy cup being a consolation prize after losing a provincial game, the 8 weakest counties (perhaps determined by league ranking or some other ranking system) start their championship here, with the winner getting a place into the latter stages of the All-Ireland championship.

I think the championship structure should be left alone, but that the bottom teams do need a helping hand to get interest back into their championship campaigns. Perhaps a system of secondment of resources (and I mean coaching staff, organisation of underage structures moreso than handing over a wad of cash) from the upper to the lower counties would be beneficial in maintaining the interest in the lower-level counties.

Football fans are not interested in tiered championship structures like the hurling equivalents Christy Ring/Nicky Rakard/Lory Meagher etc.
Any restructure peddling that idea is doomed to failure and would be rejected.

threeball wrote: »

The only way to really improve the lot of the player and supporter is to have a meaningful league that runs parallel to the championship. It should have 3 tiers not four and no semis or finals. The constant stream of games will allow proper squad development in the counties that don't progress in championship. I'd keep the current championship structure but have an open draw system. The provincials could be ran as a precursor to allow teams to tune up. Start the league in march, tie in provincials in late march and then start the full championship in end of april, finishing everything in late sept /early october.
Teams will generate a following and extra revenue and have less training and more games. It will also allow new viewers with no allegiance to pick a team and follow them

That wouldn't be bad and allows clubs get games as well. Would teams really have less training??

laoisman11 wrote: »

Thanks to the OP for opening up a very interesting discussion.

I feel that while the intentions are good, the proposal has the appearance of providing a GAA competition which mirrors the Premiership/Champion's League in terms of layout, resulting in most games being televised on a pay-per-view basis and with possible financial remuneration of successful teams/players.

This runs contrary to many aspects of the GAA, where the club championship is (or should be) the basis of the organisation and where the players are amateur. Also, our population base would not allow recuperation of the cost associated with cameras at each game.

It is true that up to this weekend, the 2014 championship has been low on shock value, and it appears that at present, a small number of teams have moved a step ahead of the chasing pack. However, the pack will make up this ground and teams which are dominant at the moment will regress. This is the nature of GAA. Cavan, Tipperary and Roscommon are 3 teams who would hope for certain progression in the next 5-10 years.

I'm also a fan of the provincial championships, even if they are flawed. There is huge attraction in a local derby and much more satisfaction to be taken from beating a near neighbour than a team from the other end of the country (all other things being equal).

On the other hand, there are teams like Carlow and Waterford, for example, whose standards are significantly lower than the main pack and who find it extremely difficult to compete each year. These are the teams who regularly receive large beatings and it must be extremely difficult to motivate these teams for the championship. The Tommy Murphy cup was introduced in 2004 for these weaker counties but it only lasted 5 years. Perhaps something similar needs to be tried, but instead of entry to the Murphy cup being a consolation prize after losing a provincial game, the 8 weakest counties (perhaps determined by league ranking or some other ranking system) start their championship here, with the winner getting a place into the latter stages of the All-Ireland championship.

I think the championship structure should be left alone, but that the bottom teams do need a helping hand to get interest back into their championship campaigns. Perhaps a system of secondment of resources (and I mean coaching staff, organisation of underage structures moreso than handing over a wad of cash) from the upper to the lower counties would be beneficial in maintaining the interest in the lower-level counties.

Why would these changes lead to more ppv tv coverage? Doesn't have to be tv coverage at every game and any changes like this wouldn't change the fact the club championships are the primary base of the association

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I am not happy with the current system.

It is the current system that has led to creeping professionalism as the big football teams know they are safe to August even if they lose.

If the back door system was removed the All Ireland champions would have been considerably different as a lot of teams have won it through the back door. Cork would certainly have more All Irelands for example as they have beaten Kerry in Munster twice only to be dumped out by Kerry in a semi and final by them subsequently

I think that it's been a failure for football but a success for revenue and commercial streams for the GAA

I would put the football first.

The back door system has not been a failure for football. In some cases the all Ireland champions would have been different but it wouldn't be better if back door was removed. Going back to straight knock out is bad for football. The primary competitions for the counties shouldn't be just straight knock out.

Back in the day, 2009, I had this fanciful championship structure that just reorganised the season for the summer. I have to root it out.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That wouldn't be bad and allows clubs get games as well. Would teams really have less training??

I'd imagine so, you can't be flogging teams and sending them out weekend after weekend to play games. I think you'd end up with a preseason much the same as other sports. Fitness will come through the number of games played. If you had the second fifteen line out against the third fifteen in the county in challenge games you'd have a serious development system in place. That would cost next to nothing bar insurance.

At the moment its a bit of a sickner to wait all year for your team to tog out and theres 3 or 4 games and its over and I'm from an averagely good county. Can only imagine how bad it is to be from the less competitive counties.