Man your pumps, Wetherspoons are coming

thesandeman · 18-10-2014 4:50am

Up to about 15 years (can't remember exactly) ago pubs always did their own lines usually every one to two weeks. Then Guinness decided that because all the pubs were doing them over different time periods, the quality of the pint wasn't consistent and there was too much waste (which they had to give us an allowance for) so they took over the cleaning themselves with their 'quality' team.
However they only clean them once a month now but use a stronger solution than we used to use.

Lovely Bloke · 18-10-2014 7:51am

BaZmO* wrote: »

I think the Porterhouse do the 2-pour on their Red Ale.

yeah, they do - and their stouts afair.

n97 mini · 18-10-2014 10:03am

Ravelleman wrote: »

The funny thing about it is that it is a Guinness marketing exercise that has been applied to other brands like Beamish and Murphy's.

A nitro stout will have a head too large if poured in one go (try it). It didn't start as a marketing exercise it started as a necessary step, which was later marketed.

Chelon · 18-10-2014 11:51am

thesandeman wrote: »

Up to about 15 years (can't remember exactly) ago pubs always did their own lines usually every one to two weeks. Then Guinness decided that because all the pubs were doing them over different time periods, the quality of the pint wasn't consistent and there was too much waste (which they had to give us an allowance for) so they took over the cleaning themselves with their 'quality' team.
However they only clean them once a month now but use a stronger solution than we used to use.

This is really helpful (I'd already asked Guinness and they didn't reply); but once a month?? My old local in London, which had a divine pint of Courage, used to clean them daily. Two further questions:-

If Guinness have determined that monthly cleaning is suffficient and every pub in the country gets done this way then the cleanliness of the line *cannot* have any impact on quality of the Guinness?

The remainng factors are glass cleanliness/pipe length/pouring technique/cask storage conditions. Anything else?

the beer revolu · 18-10-2014 12:50pm

Chelon wrote: »

If Guinness have determined that monthly cleaning is suffficient and every pub in the country gets done this way then the cleanliness of the line *cannot* have any impact on quality of the Guinness?

The remainng factors are glass cleanliness/pipe length/pouring technique/cask storage conditions. Anything else?

Ambiance, reputation, familiarity expectations etc

irish_goat · 18-10-2014 12:51pm

n97 mini wrote: »

A nitro stout will have a head too large if poured in one go (try it). It didn't start as a marketing exercise it started as a necessary step, which was later marketed.

Not true, the head size comes out grand in one pour.

Chelon · 18-10-2014 1:17pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

Ambiance, reputation, familiarity expectations etc

Ha ha nice try. I've had some great pints in glitzy City centre bars where no-one else was drinking it and some terrible pints in old mans' pubs where it was flowing.

So think I've got my head round that particular chestnut

thesandeman · 18-10-2014 2:01pm

Chelon wrote: »

The remainng factors are glass cleanliness/pipe length/pouring technique/cask storage conditions. Anything else?

Personally I've always found the length of the line to be a big factor. Cold room and cooler temperatures as well. Stock rotation also but most places would be on the ball with that to avoid waste.
Pouring technique shouldn't really affect the taste but of course it ruins the presentation of the product and immediately leads to suspicion by the customer.
As regards Courage and other cask ales I always cleaned the line after each barrel if there was an opportunity, or at least ran water through before tapping the next one. I presume this is still common practice but I haven't dealt with cask in quite a while unfortunately. This isn't necessary with keg beers and I found once every ten days or so was perfect as long as there was some kind of flow on them. Cider lines hardly ever need to be cleaned as there is no yeast involved.

Geuze · 18-10-2014 4:06pm

Ravelleman wrote: »

Tried a couple of the cask ales earlier. The Freak of Nature DIPA is quite poor. Very harsh on the aftertaste. There were two Aussie ales - one golden, another 'bitter' - on cask and both were grand - totally inoffensive. An Irish cask might have been nice.

I was there on Fri 17-Oct.

Yes, my companion complained about the Freak of Nature IPA.

There were six festival taps, with four taps pouring, and two of them "due soon".

The Devil's Backbone was not on, due to "a supplier letting them down".

I see that beer is from Texas, so maybe there is an intermediary involved.

Chelon · 18-10-2014 5:56pm

thesandeman wrote: »

Personally I've always found the length of the line to be a big factor.

Any idea why exactly? Longer line = more crud buildup, or is there another reason?

thesandeman · 19-10-2014 12:46am

Chelon wrote: »

Any idea why exactly? Longer line = more crud buildup, or is there another reason?

To be honest I'm not sure (I did say personally) even though I'm in the game for 30 years. My personal opinion is that the shorter line cuts out the middle man and keeps the creaminess of the Stout from the keg. I know it still has to go through coolers etc these days.
I know we're way off topic but up to ten or so years ago a certain pub in Limerick always had one Guinness tap which had the barrel underneath it and bypassed the cooler so you could have a regular, soft, or half+half pint. I used to travel specially for the half and half. I'm sure the quality team has put an end to that though at this stage.

coylemj · 19-10-2014 2:14am

thesandeman wrote: »

I know we're way off topic but up to ten or so years ago a certain pub in Limerick always had one Guinness tap which had the barrel underneath it and bypassed the cooler so you could have a regular, soft, or half+half pint. I used to travel specially for the half and half. I'm sure the quality team has put an end to that though at this stage.

+1 My father had a pub from the 1960s and we used to have one Guinness tap not on the cooler for the older customers who liked a 'warm' pint.

For context I need to point out that in the 60s and 70s, an Irish B & B with a washhand basin in every bedroom (a relative luxury before the days of 'en-suite') used to advertise 'H & C in all rooms' - referring to 'hot and cold'.

When a customer asked for a pint, my Dad would ask 'H or C?' and like you, some customers asked for a 'half and half'.

coylemj · 19-10-2014 2:24am

Chelon wrote: »

Any idea why exactly? Longer line = more crud buildup, or is there another reason?

The long beer line was typically a feature of hotels which suffered from the dual handicap of casual staff who were useless at filling pints and the long beer line which was neglected by the management who cared more about room occupancy and bringing in functions than about the quality of the pint in the bar.

Hence most Guinness drinkers wouldn't touch a pint of the black stuff in hotels until the brewery took a more active role in line maintenance and then made filling a pint idiot-proof.

Lovely Bloke · 19-10-2014 5:55am

thesandeman wrote: »

To be honest I'm not sure (I did say personally) even though I'm in the game for 30 years. My personal opinion is that the shorter line cuts out the middle man and keeps the creaminess of the Stout from the keg. I know it still has to go through coolers etc these days.
I know we're way off topic but up to ten or so years ago a certain pub in Limerick always had one Guinness tap which had the barrel underneath it and bypassed the cooler so you could have a regular, soft, or half+half pint. I used to travel specially for the half and half. I'm sure the quality team has put an end to that though at this stage.

But the stout is not "creamy" in the keg, it's nitrogen that gives drinks like that their creamy texture. There's be no nitro loss over a line that's two foot long, or a line that's twenty foot or a line that's two hundred foot, it's a closed environment between the keg/line/cooler/tap. Nitrogen is introduced and has nowhere to go until the pint is poured - otherwise you'd have settled pints coming out of the line.

As for the lads looking for "warm" pints, they just liked to taste their beer.

thesandeman · 19-10-2014 7:24am

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

But the stout is not "creamy" in the keg, it's nitrogen that gives drinks like that their creamy texture. There's be no nitro loss over a line that's two foot long, or a line that's twenty foot or a line that's two hundred foot, it's a closed environment between the keg/line/cooler/tap. Nitrogen is introduced and has nowhere to go until the pint is poured - otherwise you'd have settled pints coming out of the line.

As for the lads looking for "warm" pints, they just liked to taste their beer.

As I said in my first paragraph "I'm not sure", but from experience (even doing relief in bad English pubs in the Park Royal days) the pint always was creamier if the line was shorter.
I still believe this holds true today.

BaZmO* · 19-10-2014 10:31am

All terribly interesting lads, but can we get back to the topic at hand please. Cheers.

BeerNut · 19-10-2014 12:32pm

Geuze wrote: »

The Devil's Backbone was not on, due to "a supplier letting them down".

I see that beer is from Texas

Nearly. It's from Wolverhampton.

The Six Point/Adnams Bklyn Bitter went on last night and is beautiful. Ramsay/Everards Village Elder is coming next.

MonkstownHoop · 19-10-2014 12:38pm

BeerNut wrote: »

Nearly. It's from Wolverhampton.

The Six Point/Adnams Bklyn Bitter went on last night and is beautiful. Ramsay/Everards Village Elder is coming next.

Was there last night, i tried all the festival ales that were available, and Bklyn was my favorite, although the 3 of us that tried a glass of the freak of nature actually enjoyed it

BeerNut · 19-10-2014 12:40pm

I thought Freak of Nature was a disaster. Massively phenolic, like drinking TCP.

MonkstownHoop · 19-10-2014 12:44pm

BeerNut wrote: »

I thought Freak of Nature was a disaster. Massively phenolic, like drinking TCP.

:-) it was the last we had so maybe

Ravelleman · 19-10-2014 1:56pm

BeerNut wrote: »

I thought Freak of Nature was a disaster. Massively phenolic, like drinking TCP.

Yes, I found it quite medicinal.

TheChizler · 27-10-2014 8:01pm

In today's Evening Echo:

J.D. Wetherspoon plc intend to apply for planning permission for development at the former Bank of Ireland building, East Douglas Street, Douglas, Cork consisting of the change of use of the former bank building (incorporating modifications permitted under 10/5227 PI.04.237720) to licensed premises. The proposed development includes the infill at ground floor level of existing vehicular access route at the northern site boundary (c.175m2) to provide additional accommodation including bar and food servery, wash up and ancillary office accommodation and WC; internal modifications including the provision of ladies and gents WC, and staff room at...

munchkin_utd · 28-10-2014 12:49pm

any word on how the new pub is coming on in Cork City at all?

coylemj · 28-10-2014 1:10pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

any word on how the new pub is coming on in Cork City at all?

Still simply 'Opening Soon' on the website ...

http://www.jdwetherspoon.ie/

The Forty Foot (Dun Laoghaire) is opening on Dec 16th by the looks of it.

Kevin the Kid · 28-10-2014 11:31pm

Anyone know when the first one is opening ?

Geuze · 29-10-2014 1:41am

Kevin the Kid wrote: »

Anyone know when the first one is opening ?

The first what?

The first JD WS pub in Cork? Early 2015...........

Kevin the Kid · 29-10-2014 8:57am

Geuze wrote: »

The first what?

The first JD WS pub in Cork? Early 2015...........

Sorry yea. The first one in Ireland - when, where.
Although come to think of it the prices in Cork and Dublin will be different.
I saw on this thread the 40ft in Dun Laoghaire in Dec 14.
That must be the earliest ?

Lovely Bloke · 29-10-2014 9:04am

There has been one open for months in Blackrock, Co Dublin.

It's called The Three Tun Tavern

Geuze · 29-10-2014 11:57am

Kevin the Kid wrote: »

Anyone know when the first one is opening ?

The Three Tun Tavern opened in July 2014, in Blackrock.

http://www.jdwetherspoon.ie/

https://www.facebook.com/TheThreeTunTavern

Tabnabs · 30-10-2014 11:40am

https://twitter.com/Forty_Foot

the twitter feed for the new Dun Laoghaire pub

irish_goat · 11-11-2014 6:27pm

The Church has secured a refinancing deal, so won't be becoming a Wetherspoons after all.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/agribusiness-and-food/irish-owner-to-retain-church-bar-and-cafe-following-refinancing-1.1996363

Ravelleman · 11-11-2014 9:38pm

"The Church has signed a long-term multi-beverage agreement under which C&C Gleeson will supply the business with effectively all of its beverage requirements from beers, ciders, wines, spirits to soft drinks."

Doesn't sound inspiring.

BeerNut · 11-11-2014 10:31pm

Ravelleman wrote: »

Doesn't sound inspiring.

Probably means curtains for the O'Hara's taps. It'll be interesting to see if some Five Lamps beers go in.

Ravelleman · 11-11-2014 11:38pm

BeerNut wrote: »

Probably means curtains for the O'Hara's taps. It'll be interesting to see if some Five Lamps beers go in.

Black Pitts on draught would be nice.

Geuze · 12-11-2014 1:18pm

Ravelleman wrote: »

"The Church has signed a long-term multi-beverage agreement under which C&C Gleeson will supply the business with effectively all of its beverage requirements from beers, ciders, wines, spirits to soft drinks."

Doesn't sound inspiring.

This sounds like the "tie" agreements common in the UK, except that here the brewer / pubco doesn't own the freehold.

Interesting.

munchkin_utd · 12-11-2014 1:42pm

Geuze wrote: »

This sounds like the "tie" agreements common in the UK, except that here the brewer / pubco doesn't own the freehold.

Interesting.

Very.

do C+C distribute Guinness as part of their range? Or has anyone a list maybe of what they do offer to pubs?

If they dont and this is the beginning of a swathe of Guinness free pubs (after Weatherspoons parallel efforts) then its new interesting times for Irish pubs.

irish_goat · 12-11-2014 4:04pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Very.

do C+C distribute Guinness as part of their range? Or has anyone a list maybe of what they do offer to pubs?

If they dont and this is the beginning of a swathe of Guinness free pubs (after Weatherspoons parallel efforts) then its new interesting times for Irish pubs.

C&C own Gleeson Group, who are their distribution company in the south. Aside from C&C drinks they do the usual Diageo, Heineken and MolsonCoors stuff as well. Can't imagine they'd be brave enough to drop Guinness until they bring out their own nitro porter.

BeerNut · 12-11-2014 4:13pm

Lincoln's Inn on Lincoln Place in Dublin is a bit of a C&C exhibition pub: Bulmers, Tennents, Heverlee, Caledonia Smooth, Stella, Beck's, Staropramen, Hoegaarden, Franziskaner, Leffe Blonde. It's a few months since I was there but you can doubtless throw Clonmel 1650 in there too now.

Ravelleman · 12-11-2014 4:25pm

This reads a bit like the drinks available in the Bernard Shaw and their new place in Phibsboro, the Back Page, I believe. Perhaps it's more common than I thought.

BeerNut · 12-11-2014 4:30pm

Yep, left hand side of the front bar in the Back Page is all Grand Cru plus Rascal's; right hand side is all C&C.

cruhoortwunk · 12-11-2014 5:11pm

Geuze wrote: »

This sounds like the "tie" agreements common in the UK, except that here the brewer / pubco doesn't own the freehold.

Interesting.

Didn't C&C try to buy a large pub group in the UK too recently, it was rejected though.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/1024/654577-cc-spirit-pubs/

Idbatterim · 12-11-2014 5:42pm

any idea how many the intend on opening in dublin? I reckon it could take 50-60 if not more... I visit the uk once a month and even the town of 15,000 I visit over there has one... I see the DunLaoire one is opening in just over a month, can only imagine the amount they will bring in over Xmas and the new year...

oblivious · 12-11-2014 11:02pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

any idea how many the intend on opening in dublin? I reckon it could take 50-60 if not more... I visit the uk once a month and even the town of 15,000 I visit over there has one... I see the DunLaoire one is opening in just over a month, can only imagine the amount they will bring in over Xmas and the new year...

If they where to match the uk ratio 900 pubs for 64m, that would put the total in Ireland at 56 or so. But who really knows

irish_goat · 17-11-2014 11:37am

Light Nightclub in Blanchardstown is the latest acquisition.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/agribusiness-and-food/jd-wetherspoon-to-open-pub-in-blanchardstown-1.2003900

oblivious · 17-11-2014 11:40am

irish_goat wrote: »

Light Nightclub in Blanchardstown is the latest acquisition.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/agribusiness-and-food/jd-wetherspoon-to-open-pub-in-blanchardstown-1.2003900

Yep great stuff

PWEI · 17-11-2014 1:08pm

Any news on when the Swords one is opening?

Geuze · 17-11-2014 2:30pm

Am I correct here?

Blackrock, Co. Dublin - open July 2014
Dun Laoighaire - to open Dec 2014
Cork city centre - to open early 2015

Swords - bought site/pub, announced

Cork suburbs - Douglas - PP application submitted

Blanchardstown - announced today

n97 mini · 17-11-2014 10:45pm

Geuze wrote: »

Swords - bought site/pub, announced

Bought pub. Old Boro. Being refitted as we speak.

irish_goat · 21-11-2014 10:56pm

10389301_563698650428248_4504790642130753230_n.jpg?oh=5390ae289c85ed1470bfe5345879a36e&oe=550C4E62&__gda__=1428107272_98e4e20db70c99a41bc2248c86234100

Fee offered if you find them a new premise.

Geuze · 25-11-2014 1:23pm

Technical question:

How did you post that image from the JD WS Facebook page into your post?

Man your pumps, Wetherspoons are coming

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