ear pinning!!

Discodog · 20-10-2010 8:41am

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

ear pinning is not illegal its just frowned upon. jus like docking tails. its not cruel.

There is your answer Tilly. If agreeing with the Veterinary profession is clannish they I am guilty.

thebullkf · 20-10-2010 9:51am

Discodog wrote: »

There is your answer Tilly. If agreeing with the Veterinary profession is clannish they I am guilty.

i agree with the docking part. had a boxer with a HUGE tail:D

I also agree that Communites on boards are clannish,clique-ish.

not a critique-just an observation-

( If you tend to disagree vehemently with certain posters there's a'crowd' waiting, and the 'thanks' brigade are just as guilty.
Not everybody can read every thread on boards and it seems especially prevalent when someone brings up a subject thats had a particularly long thread about it already.For instance,in the cycling forum there was a thread about cycling in bus lanes (illegal) and the fact that cyclists refused to use cycle lanes provided, i commented on the fact that maybe road tax should be an option if cyclists gonna consistently use the road, therefore rendering it legal also- i got a barage of replies-systematic questioning from the same few posters each thanking the other-
i got an infraction for mentioning 'road tax'- because it was regarded as shit stirring.

end result= i probably won't post there again as it seems you can't dip yout toes in every now and then. its a trend i've noticed on boards.
Again this is just an observation, not a criticism so to speak.
apologies for going off topic.)

ISDW · 20-10-2010 10:43am

thebullkf wrote: »

i agree with the docking part. had a boxer with a HUGE tail:D

I also agree that Communites on boards are clannish,clique-ish.

not a critique-just an observation-

( If you tend to disagree vehemently with certain posters there's a'crowd' waiting, and the 'thanks' brigade are just as guilty.
Not everybody can read every thread on boards and it seems especially prevalent when someone brings up a subject thats had a particularly long thread about it already.For instance,in the cycling forum there was a thread about cycling in bus lanes (illegal) and the fact that cyclists refused to use cycle lanes provided, i commented on the fact that maybe road tax should be an option if cyclists gonna consistently use the road, therefore rendering it legal also- i got a barage of replies-systematic questioning from the same few posters each thanking the other-
i got an infraction for mentioning 'road tax'- because it was regarded as shit stirring.

end result= i probably won't post there again as it seems you can't dip yout toes in every now and then. its a trend i've noticed on boards.
Again this is just an observation, not a criticism so to speak.
apologies for going off topic.)

Ah but you also learn so much, I didn't know it was illegal to cycle in bus lanes, in the UK it is totally legal and makes sense to me, although the way London buses are driven, probably not the safest place to be:rolleyes:

DBCyc · 20-10-2010 10:50am

ISDW wrote: »

Ah but you also learn so much, I didn't know it was illegal to cycle in bus lanes, in the UK it is totally legal and makes sense to me, although the way London buses are driven, probably not the safest place to be:rolleyes:

Be careful with boards! It certainly is not illegal to cycle in a bus lane. Although if there is a mandatory (solid white line) cycle lane provided, you must cycle in it. The government have said recently that they will get rid of this requirement as a lot of cycle lanes are substandard.

Woah - that was way off topic!

Back on topic - I can't see any justifiable reason to crop a dogs ears unless there is a serious medical problem. I would imagine that an ear infection would have to be extremely serious before a vet would even consider cropping a dogs ears.

Feargal as Luimneach · 20-10-2010 11:01am

Didn't read the whole thread, but the original vet was cropping the ear for medical reasons NOT for cosmetic reason.
I myself had a white cat presented to me that was constantly getting sunburnt on the tips of the ears. (The ears were also getting secondarily infected) This could have resulted in the cat getting skin cancer. I removed the pinna from both sides. The result was a vast improvement in the cat's welfare. No more sunburn and infections.

adser53 · 20-10-2010 11:20am

Just a question thats slightly related to the topic regarding tail docking.... First off I dont think ears or tails should be touched for cosmetic reasons but I have heard it's acceptable for working dogs to have their tails docked. For example a springer spaniel used as a gun dog. Are their tales not docked to prevent injuries as they run through brush, thorny undergrowth etc or is this just an urban legend? If it is always done for this reason, and is frowned on by the V.I then do the owners/breeders do it themselves?!
I think ears and tails being docked is completely unnecessary but peoples perception of breeds and their standards havn't changed as quick as the vets opinions on the subject. You ask any joe soap and they think its normal for rotties to have docked tails, dobes with pinned ears etc because up until recent years, it was the norm. I myself only saw my first full tailed rottie a few weeks ago (I had never noticed before then)

TooManyDogs · 20-10-2010 11:27am

In the UK (as far as I'm aware) it is illegal to dock a dogs tail unless it's intended to be a working dog. The breeders claim that docking spaniels tails prevents injury but there's differing opinions as to whether there is an abundance of tail injuries in undergrowth. Anti docking side says that there are as many ear injuries in undergrowth as tail injuries so why not just hack off ears too. I don't think there are many tail injuries but it's an argument the pro docking side hang onto to allow them dock the dogs.

sophie1234 · 20-10-2010 11:33am

quick question how do you tell if your dogs ears are docked?

when getting my schauzner i was told the ears hadnt been docked but im starting to think different now and my yorkies ears?

adser53 · 20-10-2010 11:39am

But how do they prove beyond any doubt that they're working dogs? And how come we still see so many dogs with ears and tails docked at dog shows? Are these dogs more than likely imported from countries where the practice is still acceptable? Like I said, i only saw my first full tailed rotties at the dog show in swords a few weeks back. All the dogs in the class were young dogs (maybe 12-18 months) and I'd guess that half of them had docked tails. Just to add, my knowledge of rotties is very limited and i have literally no knowledge on dog shows so I could be mistaken on the ages of the dogs

Raiser · 20-10-2010 11:40am

ISDW wrote: »

I actually thought it was illegal in this country, so that vet should be struck off. Unbelievable advice.

No lets shoot his whole Family and burn his House down and then strike him off :rolleyes:

- I'm 86.98% certain this advice was based on air circulation to the ear canal which in this case is obviously prone to recurring painful ear infections - Have you ever had one where you thought your head might split????

There a world of difference between removing surplus tissue for valid medical reasons and Scumbags butchering dogs to make them look cool :rolleyes:

ISDW · 20-10-2010 12:03pm

Raiser wrote: »

No lets shoot his whole Family and burn his House down and then strike him off :rolleyes:

- I'm 86.98% certain this advice was based on air circulation to the ear canal which in this case is obviously prone to recurring painful ear infections - Have you ever had one where you thought your head might split????

There a world of difference between removing surplus tissue for valid medical reasons and Scumbags butchering dogs to make them look cool :rolleyes:

Don't be so ridiculous. The vet wouldn't do it, so if he knows that his profession frown on it, why should he recommend that its done?

ppink · 20-10-2010 12:09pm

It is frowned upon for cosmetic purposes, not medical. Or am I reading it wrong
Quote:

Cosmetic, tail docking or ear cropping in dogs (undesirable, unethical and vets refuse to carry these out)

Veterinary Ireland believes that the surgical alterations of individual animals may only be performed in the interests of the welfare of the animal or its herd.
Mutilations such as ear cropping or tail docking of dogs, which are done for cosmetic purposes are considered ethically unacceptable and veterinary surgeons should refrain from performing these techniques[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial].
[/FONT][/FONT]

DBCyc · 20-10-2010 12:16pm

Okay - so does everyone agree then that ear cropping/pinning for medical purposes is acceptable but for cosmetic purposes it is not?

Raiser · 20-10-2010 12:18pm

ISDW wrote: »

Don't be so ridiculous. The vet wouldn't do it, so if he knows that his profession frown on it, why should he recommend that its done?

A. They only frown on it in the case of Knackers who want to make their Dogs look oh so cool.

B. To allow air to circulate thus preventing recurring ear infections.

- Your argument is pretty much the same as saying that ENT Surgeons should be struck off for making holes in Kids eardrums and placing Grommets in them.

Like a breath of fresh air.

adser53 · 20-10-2010 12:39pm

I think everyone can agree that cropping for MEDICAL reasons is acceptable BUT ONLY if it is the only way to improve a dogs quality of life. Its no different to amputating a limb, removing an eye etc. However for cosmetic reasons alone it's wrong. Plain and simple. And like it was said already, if only 1 ear is the problem then the other ear shouldnt be touched so that they "match"

thebullkf · 20-10-2010 2:56pm

DBCyc wrote: »

Be careful with boards! It certainly is not illegal to cycle in a bus lane. Although if there is a mandatory (solid white line) cycle lane provided, you must cycle in it. The government have said recently that they will get rid of this requirement as a lot of cycle lanes are substandard.

Woah - that was way off topic!

Back on topic - I can't see any justifiable reason to crop a dogs ears unless there is a serious medical problem. I would imagine that an ear infection would have to be extremely serious before a vet would even consider cropping a dogs ears.

sorry, i should've specified its illegal to use bus lane when cycle lane is provided;)...

back on topic, for cosmetic reasons i don't agree with mutilating any animal.

Asphyxia · 20-10-2010 3:01pm

I would get a second vets opinion just to be sure it doesn't really make much sense for the dog to have his ear pinned back for a infection that's inside the ear?

Pye · 20-10-2010 3:26pm

DBCyc wrote: »

Okay - so does everyone agree then that ear cropping/pinning for medical purposes is acceptable but for cosmetic purposes it is not?

I can agree with that although this vet's advice appears to have been given after only one infection. I'd only offer such a drastic solution if the dog was having recurrent problems.

It's important to regularly clean a dogs ears and, if necessary, pluck the long hairs from the inside to aid air circulation. This should become a routine part of your dog's health care, the same as brushing, bathing, parasite control and so on.

I suggest to try another vet and get the infection under control for starters. Look into regular ear cleaning too and how to properly do it. It can make a lot of difference and can greatly reduce the chances of parasite infestation and infection in the future.

Good luck!

ppink · 20-10-2010 4:46pm

DBCyc wrote: »

Okay - so does everyone agree then that ear cropping/pinning for medical purposes is acceptable but for cosmetic purposes it is not?

It looks like that is what the Veterinary body are saying anyway. it is interesting that the tail docking is included as "mutiliation". If thats the case then what about all the boxers/rottweilers etc with docked tails.....are the vets then saying they are mutilated for cosmetic purposes? and who performed these mutilations?

Either way if I was in OP's shoes I would get a second or even third opinion before I would consider operating. I have been through mis-diagnosis of my dogs several times and now always get another opinion if it is life threatening or altering.

ISDW · 20-10-2010 4:48pm

Raiser wrote: »

A. They only frown on it in the case of Knackers who want to make their Dogs look oh so cool.

B. To allow air to circulate thus preventing recurring ear infections.

- Your argument is pretty much the same as saying that ENT Surgeons should be struck off for making holes in Kids eardrums and placing Grommets in them.

Like a breath of fresh air.

So why did the vet refuse to do it?

Discodog · 20-10-2010 6:16pm

The UK Animal Welfare Act does allow limited docking but it is very tightly controlled & there is a lot of procedure that has to be followed. The details are here:

http://www.cdb.org/awa/

Personally I don't totally buy the air circulation argument. Cockers are notorious for ear problems but I have never seen one with cropped ears or a cropped Basset. I wonder if a decision whether or not to crop is also based on how the dog will look afterwards.

pitbull_fanatic · 20-10-2010 9:56pm

Discodog wrote: »

There is your answer Tilly. If agreeing with the Veterinary profession is clannish they I am guilty.

cop on now a small bit. i didnt say i was in favour of ear cropping. here is my qoute so when ya quote me quote right. got it??!

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

dont get me wrong i dont like the idea of ear cropping. i'm jus saying its not illeagle.

Discodog · 20-10-2010 11:10pm

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

i know some scumbags jus cut dogs ears off with scissors n detol. but in a sterile environment with anasthetic...no prob.

boxerly · 21-10-2010 12:11am

If I were you Id make a routine for ear cleaning:)check every morning and clean and again in the evening.Like I said before I have a bichon who gets VERY bad ear infections literally within hours.They could be fine in the morning and then in the evening could be red and next morning full of gunk.I got a bottle of ear cleaner off my vet that they use and its great it lifts everything.I also keep the hair inside of her ears plucked and have her hair very short on the ourside.At the minute she looks more like a scalped rat than a bichon:) but it helps her ears:)

Raiser · 21-10-2010 11:50am

ISDW wrote: »

So why did the vet refuse to do it?

Dunno - Maybe ask him once you've put down your Flaming Torch, Petrol can and Pitchfork.....

\ Unsubscribes from thread

Discodog · 21-10-2010 7:46pm

Blimey now I'm getting scared of ISDW

pitbull_fanatic · 28-10-2010 4:54pm

Discodog wrote: »

what dont ya understand?? how old are ya? obviously i mean a vets surgery when i say sterile area wit anasthetics??

Discodog · 28-10-2010 6:22pm

Old enough to see that you can't decide where you stand !

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

but in a sterile environment with anasthetic...no prob.

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

cop on now a small bit. i didnt say i was in favour of ear cropping.

Bizzum · 28-10-2010 11:04pm

I don't buy that cropping a dog's ears will significantly affect the health of the dog's ears, for the simple reason that in my life I handle many, many dogs of naturally pointed-eared breeds, and they suffer from just as many mild to serious ear infections as any floppy-eared dogs.
So, from personal experience, cropping for medical reasons doesn't hold much ground. I'd like to see some research that compares the incidence of ear infections in pointed-eared vs floppy-eared dogs, or indeed that cropping ears improves the incidence or degree of infection.

pitbull_fanatic · 29-10-2010 12:14am

i dont like it but if it has to be done in a vets i dont see the problem once its in a surgery.

ear pinning!!

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