What History Book are you reading?

icebergiceberg · 28-07-2014 8:02pm

chughes wrote: »

Ambiguous Republic - Ireland in the 1970s by Diarmaid Ferriter.

I was a teenager during the 1970s so its a bit odd reading a history book about things that happens during my teenage years. Makes me feel a bit old

I was a teenager then too. What topics does it cover?

Arsemageddon · 01-08-2014 2:16pm

Just finished 'Return of a King' about the first Afghan War by William Dalrymple. It's so well written that once I started it I couldn't put it down (took a day off work to read it in the garden). I couldn't recommend it highly enough.

dubhthach · 01-08-2014 7:21pm

Latest purchases of mine are:

Tyrone's Rebellion -- Hiram Morgan
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tyrones-Rebellion-Outbreak-Ireland-Historical/dp/0851156835/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1406917101&sr=8-2&keywords=tyrone%27s+rebellion

Early Irish Kingship and Succession -- Bart Jaski
http://www.fourcourtspress.ie/product.php?intProductID=1171

Cattle Lords and Clansmen
The Social Structure of Early Ireland -- Nerys T. Patterson
http://undpress.nd.edu/book/P00044

eire4 · 01-08-2014 11:38pm

You couldn't call it a history book as such but I recently finished a re read of Peter Beresford Ellis' Celtic Myths and Legends. Liked it and how he split the book up into sections from each of the Celtic countries.

chughes · 07-08-2014 10:41am

icebergiceberg wrote: »

I was a teenager then too. What topics does it cover?

Really sorry for the delay in replying to this.

It covers a wide range of topics from politics, to church and state and into social issues. The book is broken into 8 sections each of which contain a number of chapters. In total there are 59 chapters in the book.

Although I have read the book from cover to cover it is not necessary to do this. You could pick out sections or even chapters that are of particular interest to you as they all stand independent of each other.

All in all an enjoyable read, especially if you have personal memories of that time. I would highly recommend this book.

Jesus. · 22-08-2014 2:27pm

Currently on "Irish Brigades Abroad" - Stephen McGarry. Good read so far.

Apparently Voltaire asked how is it that the Irish Brigades in Europe have such a reputation and often sweep all enemies before them but they had their arses handed to them in the Williamite War at home? He said some Countries are just meant to be slaves.

Very harsh no doubt but it does pose the question why so good on the Continent but so bad on home soil?

Arms, training, leadership etc I'm guessing.

laoch na mona · 22-08-2014 2:57pm

currently reading bury my heart at wounded knee
and i just bought riotous assemblies

laoch na mona · 22-08-2014 2:58pm

Jesus. wrote: »

Currently on "Irish Brigades Abroad" - Stephen McGarry. Good read so far.

Apparently Voltaire asked how is it that the Irish Brigades in Europe have such a reputation and often sweep all enemies before them but they had their arses handed to them in the Williamite War at home? He said some Countries are just meant to be slaves.

Very harsh no doubt but it does pose the question why so good on the Continent but so bad on home soil?

Arms, training, leadership etc I'm guessing.

exactly on the continent the irish troops were much better armed

dubhthach · 22-08-2014 7:14pm

Jesus. wrote: »

Very harsh no doubt but it does pose the question why so good on the Continent but so bad on home soil?

Arms, training, leadership etc I'm guessing.

There's also the fact that at home your own worse enemey was often your own kin doing deals with the English. It's a trope repeated throughout the 16th century, of course as "conquests" go it took the Tudors close on 70 years to come to a final solution to their "re-conquest"

Manach · 22-08-2014 7:18pm

With proper training and equipment, Irish troops were some of the finest of latter eras - as evidence somewhat ironically by the Peninsular Wars where a significant proportion of the troops were Irish.

Jesus. · 22-08-2014 8:18pm

dubhthach wrote: »

There's also the fact that at home your own worse enemey was often your own kin doing deals with the English. It's a trope repeated throughout the 16th century, of course as "conquests" go it took the Tudors close on 70 years to come to a final solution to their "re-conquest"

17th Century mate and the Jacobites were soundly beaten throughout that war. I don't think you can put that down to dodgy deals from 100 years before that.

The fact that Limerick capitulated so quickly in the end, considering they were well dug in and had supplies en route from France, is almost embarrassing from an Irish point of view.

Whatever way you dress it up, "we" were hammered that time and we can only look to subsequent generations for inspiration in a patriotic sense (EG '98, '19-'21).

I know this statement will be controversial but that generation let Ireland down. Pure and simple.

Ed_Stephens · 22-08-2014 8:51pm

I'm about to start The Kennedy Detail which is about two secret service agents, Clint Hill and Gerald Blaine and their story of what happened on November 22nd 1963. Thought it would be interesting to hear the "Other" side of the story.

Just finished a book called Bobby Fischer goes to war about the 1972 World chess championship between the American Bobby Fischer and the Soviet Union's Boris Spassky which turned into a cold war media battle. Very interesting which delves deep into the flaws of Fischer widely acknowledged to be the greatest chess player of all time.

laoch na mona · 22-08-2014 8:54pm

Jesus. wrote: »

I know this statement will be controversial but that generation let Ireland down. Pure and simple.

unless you don't identify the aristocratic cause of the jacobites as being the cause of ireland

Jesus. · 22-08-2014 8:58pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

unless you don't identify the aristocratic cause of the jacobites as being the cause of ireland

Catholic and for want of a better word - "native" - Ireland

dubhthach · 22-08-2014 9:32pm

Jesus. wrote: »

17th Century mate and the Jacobites were soundly beaten throughout that war. I don't think you can put that down to dodgy deals from 100 years before that.

The fact that Limerick capitulated so quickly in the end, considering they were well dug in and had supplies en route from France, is almost embarrassing from an Irish point of view.

Whatever way you dress it up, "we" were hammered that time and we can only look to subsequent generations for inspiration in a patriotic sense (EG '98, '19-'21).

I know this statement will be controversial but that generation let Ireland down. Pure and simple.

I'm talking specificy about the Tudors when Ireland was actually conquered. The wars of the 17th century were another matter. As for Limerick surrendering it's quite simple the Jacobite field army had been annihilated at Aughrim, they didn't have any other options than to seek terms.

They weren't fighting for Ireland anyways they were fighting for James II. The last generation to "fight for Ireland" (your words) in that century were those who fell at Kinsale in 1601. Given that they were up against an allied army of Dutch, English and Danes it's hardly surprising, the Dutch probably had one of the best pools of military talent at the end of the 17th century.

1641 was more about landed elites trying to get their estates back in comparison.

bobbyss · 28-03-2015 10:40pm

Getting through George V1 by Sarah Bradford. A lot of unnecessary details at the start re menus and food and different types of animals hunted by different royals and all that sort of thing. Was he some kind of monk or what? Little or nothing really about interest in women outside his courting of his future wife (Bowes Lyon) who really had her eye on his brother it seems. His life, in fact, is well worth reading about too. Any recommendations?

Have a book on Roosevelt by Conrad Black on my shelf for a long while, anybody read that?

I also have Doris Kearns' book on Lincoln ready but I would like a straightforward biography of him and I think her book is about three other rivals and not necessarily about Lincoln primarily? That is what is putting me off it even though I believe it has got outstanding reviews. Anybody read that?

Manach · 29-03-2015 11:35am

@bobbyss I'd recommend another Sarah Bradford book on Disraeli as being one of the best bio's I've read. Heard decent reviews about Black's Roosevelt but starting myself on the other Teddy Roosevelt by Morris.

bobbyss · 29-03-2015 12:53pm

Manach wrote: »

@bobbyss I'd recommend another Sarah Bradford book on Disraeli as being one of the best bio's I've read. Heard decent reviews about Black's Roosevelt but starting myself on the other Teddy Roosevelt by Morris.

Ok Thanks Manach, will keep eye out for it. Is it recent?

Re her book on George V1 she mentions, almost in passing the changing of the royal name to Windsor and how popular that seems to have been with many of the royals. (Not sure what the future Edward V111 said of it). She could have written more about that, for example, as opposed to miscellaneous stuff like how many pheasants were shot by peripheral royals.

Not much detail in what George actually studied at Cambridge. At school there seems to have been league tables of how students did and he featured about 67 in a class of 69. (I remember lists like that when I myself was at school and how embarrassing it was for my parents and myself to come in so low in a class of 22. Maybe on a good day I came in at 16. never higher). The royals never were that academic, were they? Edward V11 was particularly inept it seems and impossible as a student.

Got this week a book on the Normans by a Marc Morris. I am quite sure it is not the same Morris? Got that book from the library but was so impressed with the little I read of it that I had to get my own copy. That will be for the next rainy day(s). Also have enormous bio of the present queen by William Shawcross which I got for the pricely sum of 1 Euro in second hand shop.

What History Book are you reading?

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