DART capacity reconfiguration

loyatemu · 03-10-2013 11:16am

josip wrote: »

Is that so they can use the mirrors screens at the front of the station to see that its ok to close doors?

hardly necessary to use the screens to check a 2-car train.

josip · 03-10-2013 11:36am

loyatemu wrote: »

hardly necessary to use the screens to check a 2-car train.

I thought that too, but then when I wondered if the purpose of the mirrors/screens is to allow drivers to move off while seated at the controls rather than sticking the head out the window, going back to the controls and 2-3 seconds later moving off.

Losty Dublin · 03-10-2013 12:49pm

highdef wrote: »

I thought that during the refurbs, the original DARTs were fitted with traction control and ABS......both car terms but the same terminology would apply for trains. Would these systems not stop the possibility of wheel flats, ABS in particular?

DART's have had both systems in use from the start.

The wheel flats occur a lot on the DART due to the start stop nature of the service; most surburban trains suffer from flats for the same reason compared to longer haul traffic. Powered axles and bogies suffer a little more over trailing bogies; this is due to the additional weight they carry plus the fact that they look for more grip moving off from stationary.

Losty Dublin · 03-10-2013 12:56pm

josip wrote: »

I thought that too, but then when I wondered if the purpose of the mirrors/screens is to allow drivers to move off while seated at the controls rather than sticking the head out the window, going back to the controls and 2-3 seconds later moving off.

You are correct; it means that a driver is in his cab when at a station. The other reason for the mirror/CCTV is that it allows the driver a unobstructed view of the doors on a train.

loyatemu · 03-10-2013 1:08pm

Irish Rail obviously don't think the screens are important for small trains as the 2/3/4 Car signs do not have screens installed beside them. (anyway the Dart schedule is so slack, there's plenty time for the driver to lean out, smoke a fag and check the doors).

eigrod · 04-10-2013 12:25pm

I'll try to keep this as apolitical as I can. I have no vested political interest here, but there is an opportunity for North Wicklow people to give their feedback on this matter in the hope that something might be done.

A local TD in Greystones wants your views on the reduced capacity via a survey on his website.

bikeman1 · 04-10-2013 5:30pm

No 2 cars in operation today during the day. All services were 4/6 cars.

It seems Friday is a busier day and they might not swap out the sets. Will keep an eye out if the 2 cars come out to play tonight.

MurdyWurdy · 05-10-2013 12:34am

I Got the second last dart home from town tonight and it had 4 carriages but going into town at 7pm we had 2 carriages. It all seems very strange and inconsistent

Ernest · 05-10-2013 8:36am

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

I Got the second last dart home from town tonight and it had 4 carriages but going into town at 7pm we had 2 carriages. It all seems very strange and inconsistent

People travel into town at all times but prpbaby tend to come home nearer the last train time out of town. Hence a bigger train set at the end of the evening.

Do these two carriage DARTS also run on Saturdays and Sundays? I fear they might so, for the moment, I think I'll stick to using my car at weekends.

LXFlyer · 05-10-2013 9:48am

All DARTs at the weekend are a minimum of 4 cars.

BabyBirch · 09-10-2013 6:39pm

They've shortened the peak time Darts to 4 carriages again this week, it's really awful. I couldn't see much from my cramped position with my face in someone's armpit, but there seemed to be a lot of passengers left standing on the platforms going Southbound - definitely at GCD and Booterstown at least.

LXFlyer · 09-10-2013 7:09pm

Specifically which ones are you referring to - it always helps to specify the actual train?

BabyBirch · 09-10-2013 7:09pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Specifically which ones are you referring to - it always helps to specify the actual train?

5.46 Southbound DART from Pearse.

LXFlyer · 09-10-2013 7:43pm

BabyBirch wrote: »

5.46 Southbound DART from Pearse.

So it's just the one service rather than several that you are referring to?

BabyBirch · 09-10-2013 7:53pm

lxflyer wrote: »

So it's just the one service rather than several that you are referring to?

I was on a few different trains from Pearse (5.30, 5.46, 6.01) when they first introduced the reduced carriages, a few weeks ago now. This week there were reduced carriages yesterday only (not on Monday for some reason). I was on the 5.46 from Pearse, at Booterstown people got on talking about how they hadn't managed to get onto the previous Dart as it was full. I don't know how it was today, I got the bus instead.

Ernest · 10-10-2013 8:49am

lxflyer wrote: »

All DARTs at the weekend are a minimum of 4 cars.

lxflyer wrote: »

So it's just the one service rather than several that you are referring to?

lxflyer: Irish Rail Employee of the Month ????

hatrickpatrick · 10-10-2013 8:54am

In one sentence, this change essentially means that every train is now a rush hour train, as in chances of getting a seat are nil and chances of crashing into someone every time the train brakes suddenly are massively increased.

Two things which really irk me are how the trains never stop near the doormofthe station (how often do you see people running up the platform toget on, how daft is that?) and also that Friday night is not considered part of the weekend even though a lot of people get the last dart into town on Friday nights. This used to be an enjoyable experience and something I looked forward to, but not anymore.

At the very least, the dart needs to have far more handles and rails to hold on to. If they want to move to a model where everyone is forced to stand no matter what time of day they get the train, then there shouldn't have to e a race for the poles so that anyone else has to keep trying not to be thrown into other passengers every time the train brakes and jerks back a bit.

Why not have a London Underground-esque setup where there are rows of individual handles hanging from the ceiling all the way down the carriage?

LXFlyer · 10-10-2013 9:45am

Ernest wrote: »

lxflyer: Irish Rail Employee of the Month ????

First of all, I have nothing to do with Irish Rail - I'm just someone who has a great personal interest in public transport and its development, and I do take an active role in trying to improve it, in my own way.

You asked a question, to which I knew the answer - I hardly think that is something to start slagging me over.

The second point was that when people have an issue about a train, they should be specific about what service is causing the problem, rather than making sweeping statements. I'm pretty sure IE read this board, and specifying the trains that are having overcrowding issues, and in particular where people are being left behind, which frankly is unforgiveable, will at least provide them with some clear feedback.

I find it rather sad that just because someone has a particular interest, and takes time to understand the issues underlying problems that arise, has to be frankly insulted and branded a company employee, which yet again, I am most certainly not.

josip · 10-10-2013 10:02am

8.42 Dart to town this morning from Dun Laoghaire was an 8 set.
Some seats still free in the 2nd last carriage.

Decuc500 · 10-10-2013 7:11pm

Been getting various dart's at evening rush hour the past few weeks and I think every train but one serving the Northside between 5 and 6 pm has only 4 carriages.

The policy seems to be that if there's room to sit they aren't doing a good enough job and carriages are taken off. So the dart experience is getting even more hateful and frustrating than ever.

It's gotten to the stage where I'm so p***ed off that when I see the carriages in Fairview depot covered in graffiti I have a little chuckle to myself. Serves em right to have to spend the money to clean them up. Actually the one with the cartoon figure snorting up a mountain of coke is actually pretty good!

Victor · 11-10-2013 12:45am

Ernest wrote: »

lxflyer: Irish Rail Employee of the Month ????

Constructive, on-topic posts only please.

Moderator

Ernest · 11-10-2013 10:22am

Ernest wrote: »

lxflyer: Irish Rail Employee of the Month ????

lxflyer wrote: »

First of all, I have nothing to do with Irish Rail - I'm just someone who has a great personal interest in public transport and its development, and I do take an active role in trying to improve it, in my own way.

You asked a question, to which I knew the answer - I hardly think that is something to start slagging me over.

The second point was that when people have an issue about a train, they should be specific about what service is causing the problem, rather than making sweeping statements. I'm pretty sure IE read this board, and specifying the trains that are having overcrowding issues, and in particular where people are being left behind, which frankly is unforgiveable, will at least provide them with some clear feedback.

I find it rather sad that just because someone has a particular interest, and takes time to understand the issues underlying problems that arise, has to be frankly insulted and branded a company employee, which yet again, I am most certainly not.

Victor wrote: »

Constructive, on-topic posts only please.

Moderator

My oh my, how touchy we have become! The frequency of Mr/Ms Flyer’s postings, their detailed knowledge of Irish Rail operational matters and their tendency to adopt the perspective of the rail operator rather than of the passengers lead me to speculate whether he/she might actually be someone from within Irish Rail. Why querying whether someone works for Irish Rail should be taken as an “insult” is puzzling.
The level of Mr/Ms Flyer’s detailed knowledge of railway workings plus the immediate reprimand and a Warning(!!!) in a private message to me from the Moderator does suggest some kind of “inside track” scenario, but such speculation is probably forbidden also.

stop · 11-10-2013 10:27am

Ernest wrote: »

My oh my, how touchy we have become! The frequency of Mr/Ms Flyer’s postings, their detailed knowledge of Irish Rail operational matters and their tendency to adopt the perspective of the rail operator rather than of the passengers lead me to speculate whether he/she might actually be someone from within Irish Rail. Why querying whether someone works for Irish Rail should be taken as an “insult” is puzzling.
The level of Mr/Ms Flyer’s detailed knowledge of railway workings plus the immediate reprimand and a Warning(!!!) in a private message to me from the Moderator does suggest some kind of “inside track” scenario, but such speculation is probably forbidden also.

So anyone who has taken the time to study how the system works is an employee of IR?
Looking at things from the perspective of the operator might help you understand how things work ffs

LXFlyer · 11-10-2013 10:31am

Ernest wrote: »

My oh my, how touchy we have become! The frequency of Mr/Ms Flyer’s postings, their detailed knowledge of Irish Rail operational matters and their tendency to adopt the perspective of the rail operator rather than of the passengers lead me to speculate whether he/she might actually be someone from within Irish Rail. Why querying whether someone works for Irish Rail should be taken as an “insult” is puzzling.
The level of Mr/Ms Flyer’s detailed knowledge of railway workings plus the immediate reprimand and a Warning(!!!) in a private message to me from the Moderator does suggest some kind of “inside track” scenario, but such speculation is probably forbidden also.

For the second time - I have no professional connection with Irish Rail or any of the CIE Group companies.

I'm someone who has observed public transport workings (in detail) for over 25 years and I have built up an understanding of how things work or don't operationally. It's what interests me - is that a crime?

What irked me about your post is the instant assumption that I must be an insider, and actually couldn't have worked the things out for myself by observing the workings? It's a very rash assumption, as it has no basis in reality.

As for taking the perspective of the railway company - I have on several occasions made it clear that I view leaving people behind as unacceptable and that I view the evening introduction of 2 car trains as being too early.

I don't know how much clearer I can make it for you.

bikeman1 · 11-10-2013 11:39am

While you may not work for IE / DB you must know people on the management / running the show side of things? Which there is nothing wrong with at all.

Through my years of interest in transport, I have got to know a few people on the "inside" so to speak. And who work for the company.

Maybe thats where some of your knowledge comes from LXFlyer?

lil5 · 11-10-2013 12:26pm

Sorry for going OT

While I not always agree with lxflyer's viewpoint I'm very grateful for the insights the poster provides on the various transport modes.

I cannot see why the poster has to provide the source of his knowledge to the wider forum.
In particular if there's no conflict of interest.

dublinman1990 · 11-10-2013 12:33pm

Yesterday two of the DART trains I boarded yesterday had two carriage formations.

The first train I boarded had arrived in Seapoint at 10:02 am as it was heading to Malahide. The Second train which I boarded had arrived in Tara Street at around 7:18 pm last night which was heading to Bray.

The DART for yesterday morning was apparently delayed for 20 minutes because of a late incoming train arriving at Greystones. I had to wait 24 minutes for the train to arrive at Seapoint even though my first train was meant to go to Howth. The trains on the opposite track were all 4 carriage trains.

In the first three minutes I waited for it, the platform display at Seapoint changed it from Howth to Malahide after both trains briefly according to the display were due to arrive there in 24 minutes. Luckily I got a seat on the two carriage train after all that mess.

My train home from Tara Street was much shorter with a waiting time of 3 minutes.

I even managed to get a seat on my train home from Tara Street to Blackrock as well after there were lots of passengers getting off there. The train did seem to have plenty of spare seats to fill up even though the train had gone up to the very top of the platform while going beyond the 2-3-4 carriage signage.

Although a lot of other passengers who boarded at Pearse Street & beyond had the only option of standing for the whole journey while making my way home.

From what I have noticed from observing the trains from Blackrock between 7 & 8 pm last night is that the northbound trains are not as full as expected as they head for the City Centre. But it is a different story as you go Southbound.

LXFlyer · 11-10-2013 12:36pm

Most of my knowledge frankly comes from sitting down and looking at timetables off my own bat, analysing how the timetables appear to be built up, and trying to figure out how they are integrated (in other words what bus or train does which service). The recent publication of full timetables on the Transport for Ireland website is a goldmine of information for someone such as myself. It is something that I really enjoy doing.

An awful lot else comes from observation - I don't drive so I use public transport every day to go everywhere - you can build up a significant amount of information from doing that.

I also get updates for any media articles on public transport every day - that keeps me abreast of what is in the public arena.

I would also have a large amount of anecdotal information from just simply talking to staff when I'm out and about - while you will get a certain amount of "dud information" that way it's often surprising what you can learn. That, for example, together with my own observations, was how I knew that there were no 2-car DARTs out at the weekend. I rarely use anything that I learn anecdotally without confirming it from my own observations - I make a point of going out and about to see how things operate.

As a customer I have made, and I continue to make, regular constructive submissions to all of the transport companies based on my experiences - and yes of course that means that as a result I also manage to learn how things work. I am a firm believer in being pro-active and thankfully over the years this has meant that I have managed to get many small things changed, be it for example from the installation of bus stops at particular locations, to minor changes in timetables, correction of errors on the websites.

The point that I am trying to get across is that over 25 years I have managed, through my own analytical work in my spare time, from my own daily experiences, and from anecdotal information that I have gained, to build up what I would consider to be an exceptionally good understanding of how things work, or indeed how they don't. I actively do constructively engage with all of the companies if I see something that needs addressing. But, and it is a huge but, does not make me a "vehicle" for their viewpoints.

I'm a passionate advocate of public transport and it's development, and it's something I firmly believe in. As someone with a financial background, I also understand the cost impact of doing/not doing things. As someone who has worked in companies where significant cost reduction programmes had to be implemented, I understand the difficulties that the companies face, that many people don't even consider. I am also I believe pragmatic, in that I understand that getting changes through is something that generally takes time and considerable patience!

All of this means I can give something of an educated view of how our public transport services work or not.

It does NOT mean that I am an employee or am behoven to any organisation. Frankly I think that those sort of suggestions insult my intelligence.

LXFlyer · 11-10-2013 12:40pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Yesterday two of the DART trains I boarded yesterday had two carriage formations.

The first train I boarded had arrived in Seapoint at 10:02 am as it was heading to Malahide. The Second train which I boarded had arrived in Tara Street at around 7:18 pm last night which was heading to Bray.

From what I have noticed from observing the trains from Blackrock between 7 & 8 pm last night is that the northbound trains are not as full as expected as they head for the City Centre. But it is a different story as you go Southbound.

I even managed to get a seat on my train home from Tara Street to Blackrock on the DART for the first time in weeks as while there were lots of passengers getting off there. The train did seem to have plenty of spare seats to fill up.

Although a lot of other passengers who boarded at Pearse Street & beyond had the only option of standing for the whole journey while making my way home.

I wouldn't expect northbound trains to have loading issues until after they have gone through the city centre.

You would need to be looking at them at Clontarf Road to form a view as to whether they are overloaded or not.

GBOA · 12-10-2013 8:15am

lxflyer wrote: »

It does NOT mean that I am an employee or am behoven to any organisation. Frankly I think that those sort of suggestions insult my intelligence.

Don't worry, you'll find there are doers and sayers, the latter outnumbering the former. Pay it no heed.

Sam Russell · 13-10-2013 6:05pm

It would have made more sense if IR had introduced 4 car sets as the minimum configuration first before they went to 2 car sets. They could then use all railcar sets as either new or old style. They then run as either 4 car or 8 car, no 6 car sets. When this is stable - that is they know when trains are over capacity. They can then adjust the mix, introducing 2 and 6 car sets as required.

They should perhaps switch to a 10 min frequency on the Dart, terminating Bray bound diesels at Pearse, and running them back from Grand Canal Dock, meeting the North-bound Dart and passengers crossing the platform. The timetabled travelling time for the diesels is the same as the Dart even though they stop at fewer stops.

LXFlyer · 13-10-2013 6:52pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

It would have made more sense if IR had introduced 4 car sets as the minimum configuration first before they went to 2 car sets. They could then use all railcar sets as either new or old style. They then run as either 4 car or 8 car, no 6 car sets. When this is stable - that is they know when trains are over capacity. They can then adjust the mix, introducing 2 and 6 car sets as required.

They should perhaps switch to a 10 min frequency on the Dart, terminating Bray bound diesels at Pearse, and running them back from Grand Canal Dock, meeting the North-bound Dart and passengers crossing the platform. The timetabled travelling time for the diesels is the same as the Dart even though they stop at fewer stops.

When the city centre resignalling project is complete, the third platform at GCD will come into use. The current northbound platform will become a turnback platform for diesel services from Drogheda, Maynooth and possibly Kildare, while the current out of use platform will become the northbound through platform.

At peak times there are extra DART services slotted into the basic 15 minute frequency, three in either direction in the morning peak, three southbound late-afternoon to Dun Laoghaire, which return northbound in the evening peak.

Sam Russell · 13-10-2013 7:04pm

lxflyer wrote: »

When the city centre resignalling project is complete, the third platform at GCD will come into use. The current northbound platform will become a turnback platform for diesel services from Drogheda, Maynooth and possibly Kildare, while the current out of use platform will become the northbound through platform.

Does that mean someone coming from Bray to Maynooth (currently a through train) will be able to cross the platform and the Maynooth train will depart before the Dart? Or will the Dart continue on its merry way leaving the Maynooth train to wait till it has gone?

bikeman1 · 13-10-2013 7:15pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Does that mean someone coming from Bray to Maynooth (currently a through train) will be able to cross the platform and the Maynooth train will depart before the Dart? Or will the Dart continue on its merry way leaving the Maynooth train to wait till it has gone?

I would imagine that the through Bray to Maynooth / Drogheda trains will continue. They serve quite a lot of passengers who work on the southside of the city, especially Lansdowne Road and are a huge bonus for attracting the commuters of North Dublin and the Maynooth line onto the train. Also there can be space restrictions in Pearse/GCD, if all services start and finish there.

LXFlyer · 13-10-2013 7:37pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Does that mean someone coming from Bray to Maynooth (currently a through train) will be able to cross the platform and the Maynooth train will depart before the Dart? Or will the Dart continue on its merry way leaving the Maynooth train to wait till it has gone?

bikeman1 wrote: »

I would imagine that the through Bray to Maynooth / Drogheda trains will continue. They serve quite a lot of passengers who work on the southside of the city, especially Lansdowne Road and are a huge bonus for attracting the commuters of North Dublin and the Maynooth line onto the train. Also there can be space restrictions in Pearse/GCD, if all services start and finish there.

I would imagine that those diesel trains that do so will continue to operate through to Bray - for one thing they add extra capacity without requiring an additional train/driver.

As bikeman1 says - space is limited in the city centre area, and continuing to operate them south doesn't use up a DART path as the 15 minute frequency is maintained.

LEIN · 13-10-2013 7:44pm

lxflyer wrote: »

When the city centre resignalling project is complete, the third platform at GCD will come into use. The current northbound platform will become a turnback platform for diesel services from Drogheda, Maynooth and possibly Kildare, while the current out of use platform will become the northbound through platform.

Electrification needs to take place for that platform too.

LXFlyer · 13-10-2013 7:50pm

DD9090 wrote: »

Electrification needs to take place for that platform too.

That is all part of the city centre resignalling project - the track east of Pearse will be remodelled and resignalled.

This work is now out to tender (which for some poster's benefit I discovered through a google search):

http://www.mytenders.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=SEP410499

Signalling, Telecoms and OHLE Works for CCRP Phases 3 & 4.
IE is seeking expressions of interest from suitably qualified contractors
with experience of complex railway system projects for the carrying out of
Signalling, Telecoms and Overhead Line Equipment (OHLE) works required for
Phase 3 of the City Centre Re-Signalling Project.
The City Centre Re-Signalling Project (CCRP) is a strategic re-signalling
project covering the DART network. The project is divided into four
interrelated phases for ease of management and control. Phases 3 & 4 are a
continuation of the existing Phases 1 & 2, which are now nearing
completion. Phase 3 comprises Connolly Station to Sandymount, with
permanent way changes at Grand Canal Dock (GCD). Phase 4 covers Connolly
Station area.
The scope of this tender will include works relating to Phase 3 only. It
is intended to enter into an Early Collaboration Contract with the
successful tenderer.
The Phase 3 Signalling, Telecoms and OHLE works are comprised of the
following:
— Provision of signalling to cater for a centre road terminating turn back
facility for southbound trains at Grand Canal Dock Station adjacent to
platform 2.
— Re-signalling of the area between Connolly and Sandymount including the
replacement of the life expired 3 aspect signalling system based on relay
interlocking with a modern multi-aspect system based on solid state
interlocking.
— Provision of wayside systems that are suitable for both automatic train
protection (ATP) technology and continuous automatic warning systems
(CAWS).
— Replacement of the existing track circuits with axle counters.
— Provision of point machines to all new points.
— Replacement of relay based level crossing control with Siemens S7
Fail-Safe Programmable Logic Control (PLC) at Lansdowne Road level
crossing and at Serpentine Avenue level crossing.
— Provision of a new signalling power distribution system with
Uninterrupted Power Supply and backup diesel generators.
— Provision of new fibre transmission nodes at strategic points to provide
circuits for line side phones, train radio and signalling.
— Upgrade of the PABX system and installation of new line side telephones.
— Modification of the layout of the overhead line equipment (OHLE) as
necessary for a turnback facility at Grand Canal Dock station.

davidlacey · 14-10-2013 8:32am

On the 8:10 dart from bray just now and it was a four car set needless to say It was packed to unsafe levels and people were turned away at stations. I do not see IEs thinking in this other than annoying ppl so much that they are forced to go back to the way things are through political pressure. 8:10 is a peak time end of! there can be no argument about that, it is getting ridiculous when you have examples of this and then at off peak times sit in 8 carriage sets. Typical IE management.

jayobray · 14-10-2013 8:39am

IE blaming drivers this morning for refusing to carry out coupler checks, resulting in 2 and 4 carriage DARTs only during peaktime. There's going to be some serious overcrowding issues this morning.

Sam Russell · 14-10-2013 8:40am

I think the problem is coming from the drivers refusal to reconfigure the trains after the weekend. All the Darts appear to be the 4-car configuration used during the weekend.

lil5 · 14-10-2013 8:58am

Irish Rail apologises as ‘driver issue’ reduces DART capacity - Independent.ie
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-rail-apologises-as-driver-issue-reduces-dart-capacity-29657673.html

14 October 2013
COMMUTERS using the DART this morning face possible delays as some services are operating with reduced peak-time capacity due to what Irish Rail has described as a “driver issue”.

Peak time DARTs normally operate with a mix of 8-carriage, 6-carriage and 4-carriage train

“The effect of this issue will be that most DARTs will operate as a 4-carriage train, and a small number will operate as a 2-carriage train,” it added.

“We apologise for the inconvenience caused.

“This is due to a refusal by drivers to carry out a coupler check before DART trains leave the depot to enter service.”

...

“Drivers had been carrying out the check since its introduction last month. ”

“However, following SIPTU indicating, outside of agreed procedures, that it would no longer cooperate with this check, they are not being carried out by drivers today resulting in shorter trains.”

Decuc500 · 14-10-2013 8:59am

Yeah this morning was great craic. People couldn't get on my 4 carriage dart at Killester. I just presumed it was Irish Rail saving money.

DubOnHoliday · 14-10-2013 9:17am

davidlacey wrote: »

On the 8:10 dart from bray just now and it was a four car set needless to say It was packed to unsafe levels and people were turned away at stations. I do not see IEs thinking in this other than annoying ppl so much that they are forced to go back to the way things are through political pressure. 8:10 is a peak time end of! there can be no argument about that, it is getting ridiculous when you have examples of this and then at off peak times sit in 8 carriage sets. Typical IE management.

lucky you didn't wait for the 8:30 from Greystones which was a TWO car!

EricPraline · 14-10-2013 9:20am

jayobray wrote: »

IE blaming drivers this morning for refusing to carry out coupler checks, resulting in 2 and 4 carriage DARTs only during peaktime. There's going to be some serious overcrowding issues this morning.

Have heard it's extremely unpleasant this morning. Unfortunately this just reenforces the idea that the DART isn't a commuting option that can be relied upon.

eigrod · 14-10-2013 9:40am

Decuc500 wrote: »

Yeah this morning was great craic. People couldn't get on my 4 carriage dart at Killester. I just presumed it was Irish Rail saving money.

It is, indirectly at least. If they weren't splitting the DARTs in the first place, there would be no need to put them back together.

Their tweets this morning are an insult to the paying public too. Blaming the drivers with the clear intention of absolving themselves of any fault. Clearly risk management and contingency hasn't entered the corridors of Irish Rail at all.

Aside from all the delays and severe discomfort this morning, the health and safety of passengers was clearly a major issue, both on the platforms and on the trains themselves.

Cookie_Monster · 14-10-2013 10:18am

How on earth are train safety checks "outside of agreed procedures" before taking control of a train / releasing a train for ops when the lack of capacity directly endangers customers when IE (and their staff) know the demand will be far in excess of 2 or 4 carriage capacity?

Cunning Alias · 14-10-2013 10:28am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

How on earth are train safety checks "outside of agreed procedures" before taking control of a train / releasing a train for ops when the lack of capacity directly endangers customers when IE (and their staff) know the demand will be far in excess of 2 or 4 carriage capacity?

Considering SIPTU haven't come out and defended themselves, I am inclined to believe that the statements in the Irish Times are correct.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/shorter-darts-lead-to-overcrowding-for-commuters-1.1560110

Sounds like the unions are going to try for more money as their poor members have been asked to do extra work.

Edit: It seems that if the staff are given new work to do, they can refuse to do it as it is not part of their agreed tasks. It doesn't seem to matter how hard the work is.

loyatemu · 14-10-2013 10:33am

nice - when IE introduced longer DARTs the unions wanted more money because they were "being more productive" driving longer trains. Now they want more money for driving shorter trains?

josip · 14-10-2013 11:12am

lxflyer wrote: »

I think you're mixing Drumcondra up with Pearse - it was Dublin/Galway drivers that clocked in at Pearse and then went to Heuston to pick up their train. This went back to the days when Galway trains operated from Connolly.

Thankfully that sort of nonsense is long gone.

...

Is this morning's coupling check fiasco an example of "that sort of nonsense" or something else?

Infini · 14-10-2013 11:34am

From my understanding of the issue its related to the fact that drivers are meant to be drivers not maintinence. It's all due to cutbacks these checks were started because of the way theyre constantly uncoupling and banging up 2 carrige darts all the time and the drivers are being told they have to walk up and down an Eight carrige dart twice to check the thing before it leaves in the morning/evening.

Issue here is this is a maintinence issue and should be looked after by them but theyre being cut back by managment. From what I can put together Drivers just simply got told by the unions that this is a maintnence issue not a driver issue and the coupler test is their responsibility. Drivers are there to drive the trains.

It is a safety issue and its not fair on the passengers but lets not fool ourselves the goverment is cutting back on the subsidies and theres not that many people travelling. On top of that theres stations being left unmanned all over the shop and everything else this is just the cracks starting to show.

DART capacity reconfiguration

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