Richard III found under a carpark!

tac foley wrote: »

The main problem that you seem to be representing is that of suddenly having to deal with a lost king who has had over 500 years of bad press, but according to the church teachings has been forgiven and absolved of all his sins, and is now having a long-overdue Christian burial, as is his due as the anointed king of England etc..
tac

People probably forget he ordered the deaths of two little boys, his nephews.

enfant terrible wrote: »

People probably forget he ordered the deaths of two little boys, his nephews.

There is now some small evidence that the boys may have been killed, not because he actually ordered that it be done, but that like Henry and Thomas á Becket, Richard said something along the lines of 'would that I be rid of this troublesome pair'...

We'll never know the truth.

It does, however, taint his image forever, and I'm not excusing him of it, in spite of my support for his 'whitewashing', as some call it.

Richard was simply a king and man of his time.

tac

Many priests in England are Irish, from one part of the island or another. All four priests in our local town RC church are Irish.

tac

Does it matter what I am?

I'm not in the least interested in who you might be, nor anybody else on this forum. If it was intended to be for Irish people only, then it would be in the forum charter. However, I can't find anything barring me from being here, and you know that my father was Irish because I've said so.

Let's leave it at that.

tac

Burial in Westminster Abbey was reserved for kings and queens who died at the end of long lives and usually popular reigns. The last thing that a new king, a usurper wanted, was the pomp and ceremony that accompanies such a burial. Harold, killed at Hastings by another invading usurper, was hacked to pieces and left in bits for his wife, Edith Swan-neck, to bury him where she could.

tac

I'm not 'throwing my toys out' as you so succinctly put it. It's unlikely that your name really IS Jesus unless you are Mexican, but you'll note that I haven't asked why you have that name or if you are from Chipotl or Ballybunion. My name, on the other hand, is more or less exactly as you see it. And yes, I DO live in England much of the time, but also in Canada and Oregon.

Riffmungous here lives in Vienna - whether or not he has a single Irish cell in his body is a 'who-cares' - that's the great thing about the internet - you can be as anonymous as you want.

As for being touchy, of course I'm touchy, you're being nosey, and I'm half-Irish for gosh sake, and there's few things in life as good as a good scrap, that's for sure.

We move on....

tac

tac foley wrote: »

Forgive me saying so, as a non-Christian, but you [in general] seem to making a real issue about the Roman Catholicism thing vis-á-vis Protestantism. This country has effectively been Anglican since 1534, and the divisions and barriers that seem to matter so much to many in Ireland simply do not exist here - there is nothing of the religious intolerance that we see exhibited on an almost daily basis in the North of Ireland, for instance.

Well, in fairness, the Catholic/Protestant issue with respect to the reburial of Richard III was raised in England, by English people.

And it's not really about the intrinsic merits of Catholicism versus Protestantism; rather about respect for Richard III as an individual, and about respect for his religious practices and (so far as we know them) his beliefs.

The simple fact is that he was a Catholic in his practices and, as far as we can tell, in his beliefs, and his own hope and expectation would undoubtedly for Catholic funeral and burial practices, including practices which the Church of England rejects, such as memorial masses, prayers for the dead, etc. You can make the case that, regardless of your views or mine on such practices, respect for Richard III suggests that it's his views which should influence how his reburial is handled.

Having said all that, I myself am perfectly comfortable with his being reburied in an Anglican Cathedral in an interdenominational service. Funerals are not just about the dead, but about their relationship with, and connection with, the community. Richard was a King of England; the Church of Engand is the national church which has always discharged the responsiblity of burying English kings and keeping their graves, even those who (like Charles II) died as Catholics. I don't think the Church of England loses that role purely because, since Richard's time, it has been reformed, and it has abandoned some of the beliefs and practices that Richard held.

LordSutch wrote: »

I must say the whole story fascinates me. From his brutal death to his bones being rediscovered after hundreds of years in the car park (under the letter R).

Looking forward to a 'non Hollywood' film about the wars of the roses, and in particular the Battle of Bosworth. Top quality cast inc . . .

Anyone know if such a film has been suggested?

There are three Shakespearean plays that delve into the subject in detail, although I suspect from a very pro Tudor (Lancastrian) viewpoint, given the old adage that he (or she) who pays the piper calls the tune and Shakespeare's ultimate paymaster was Henry VII's granddaughter. They are Henry VI parts 1, 2 and 3.

Not to mention the Bard's Richard III itself, of course.