DART capacity reconfiguration

Sam Russell · 06-03-2014 10:19pm

LEIN wrote: »

Leinster played in the RDS and I think there was a Fine Gale Ard Fheis as far as I know.

And that warrants 8 coaches all day? They were empty most of the day. Fewer passengers than a weekday with 2 car sets.

LEIN · 06-03-2014 10:23pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

And that warrants 8 coaches all day? They were empty most of the day. Fewer passengers than a weekday with 2 car sets.

That was a guess and I am probably wrong but they are the only events that I knew of during last Saturday.

I got the 18:30 6 car from Greystones that evening and It was justified as there were people standing part of the way.

LXFlyer · 06-03-2014 11:55pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

And that warrants 8 coaches all day? They were empty most of the day. Fewer passengers than a weekday with 2 car sets.

Given that there are no rostered swaps at weekends - they would require drivers to be rostered to do it - you would have to draw up completely new set and driver rosters to start shortening/lengthening trains.

That simply isn't worth the effort, given the amount of work involved in doing that, and the fact that no two Saturday events are going to start/finish at the same time, you would have to draw up full new rosters every single time.

It's just easier to strengthen the sets.

There are fairly strict rosters in terms of sets - they have to start and finish in particular locations to ensure they are on the correct maintenance cycle. As I said above, despite what you may think, there would have to be fully detailed rosters in terms of what train works what service.

From your comments here, and those about buses, I'm not sure that you realise how complicated rostering and timetabling public transport actually is.

end of the road · 07-03-2014 12:11am

thats not the problem of the customer, schedule the maintenance cycle at times of less impact, i know their possibly trying to avoid empty running but if having the sets matching the capacity when their supposed to means the odd empty run then maybe thats what has to happen, long distance services being subjected to 29 ks, short trains on very over crowded services, long trains on services that have small usership because of time of day or night, its just not good enough, we know the excuses, but they don't wash

Ernest · 07-03-2014 9:03am

During the past fortnight I have encoutered very over-crowded 2- carriage trains going southbound towards Connolly in mid morning jam-packed with passengers.

And why do these short trains still stop at the very furthest point away from the stairs on southbound services arriving at Tara Street??

LXFlyer · 07-03-2014 11:04am

They stop at the stop board on the platform. In the case of Tara Street it's located at a point where the driver can look back and clearly see all of his train.

If you stand beside the blue stop board that has a "2" on it you will always walk straight onto any train.

Captain Chaos · 07-03-2014 6:13pm

lxflyer wrote: »

If you stand beside the blue stop board that has a "2" on it you will always walk straight onto any train.

Not always, not all drivers bother to use them. I saw a driver stop a 2 car DART right at the very top of the south bound platform at Pearse one evening, the train was not covered by the roof anymore. Que the mass running or around 100 people down the platform. Just doing it for kicks or what I don't know.

LEIN · 07-03-2014 6:18pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not always, not all drivers bother to use them. I saw a driver stop a 2 car DART right at the very top of the south bound platform at Pearse one evening, the train was not covered by the roof anymore. Que the mass running or around 100 people down the platform. Just doing it for kicks or what I don't know.

I have been on one of these and all it does is delay the service and frustrate customers.

bikeman1 · 07-03-2014 6:26pm

All this shows to me is that the driver is totally incompetent at his/her job. It is really poor driving in my opinion.

Hilly Bill · 07-03-2014 6:34pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not always, not all drivers bother to use them. I saw a driver stop a 2 car DART right at the very top of the south bound platform at Pearse one evening, the train was not covered by the roof anymore. Que the mass running or around 100 people down the platform. Just doing it for kicks or what I don't know.

Some of them just take the preverbials to be honest when there is no need for them at some stations to go to the end of the platform with a 2 piece.
Most are sound but there is a bad few amongst them.

LEIN · 07-03-2014 6:35pm

bikeman1 wrote: »

All this shows to me is that the driver is totally incompetent at his/her job. It is really poor driving in my opinion.

I'm using DART for years and I would be here all night if I were to tell you all of the other stories.

One has to wonder, are some still in the job and if they are, how?

Sam Russell · 07-03-2014 7:14pm

lxflyer wrote: »

From your comments here, and those about buses, I'm not sure that you realise how complicated rostering and timetabling public transport actually is.

I know nothing about the difficultes of scheduling a public transport system. What I do know is that prior to the reconfiguration a few months ago, empty 8 and 6 trains were going up and down to Bray most of the day, only full for about 4 trains in each direction.

So eventually, IR cop onto this and start running 2 coach trains, not noticing that they are (dangerously) crammed.

Now, I (who know nothing) would have changed the 8 coach trains to 4 coach trains first and see how that went before reducing capacity further.

Then I would consider adding extra 2 or 4 coach trains to cover for busy peaks during the day (such as school out times), but only running part distance (Dun L) to ease the load.

Then I would consider running a 10 min service to improve frequency on the reduced capacity.

Then I would look at the Commuter trains (29000) running south from Pearse to Bray and substitute them with Dart trains. North bound ones would be replaced with Darts running to GCD where passengers could cross the platform onto the waiting Commuter, which would then depart for wherever, Dart going onto Connolly or depot. Southbound Commuters would terminate at Pearse with a Dart directly behind. Only Rosslare diesels would run south of GCD. Darts are cheaper and quicker than 29000s.

When all these changes were bedded down, I would then look at express Dart trains for peak times with reduced stopping, and also realise the proposed Howth/Howth Junction shuttle service so frequency to Malahide and Howth are increased.

But as I said, I know nothing.

TheBandicoot · 07-03-2014 7:33pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Southbound Commuters would terminate at Pearse with a Dart directly behind.

The problem with that is the reason why the commuters go to Bray in the first place- terminating at Pearse will delay peak time DARTs they have to wait for the train to empty and be checked, wait for the slow speed shunt to the sidings, northbound trains waiting for the shunt across the northbound track to complete, etc.

Actually, while on the subject, does anyone know what the DMUS that terminate at Bray in the morning do afterwards? The timetable shows they don't head back north in service until mid-afternoon, so are they stabling there for half the day or do they head ECS and then they or other units come down ECS in the early afternoon?

Sam Russell · 07-03-2014 7:50pm

They run empty back to Pearse.

Ernest · 08-03-2014 8:56am

lxflyer wrote: »

They stop at the stop board on the platform. In the case of Tara Street it's located at a point where the driver can look back and clearly see all of his train.

If you stand beside the blue stop board that has a "2" on it you will always walk straight onto any train.

As I said earlier:
"Why do these short trains still stop at the very furthest point away from the stairs on southbound services arriving at Tara Street??"

With two-carriage train sets a driver can see back to all the two carriages from any point on the platform - including a point nearer the exit/entrance that pasengers would be using.

loyatemu · 08-03-2014 10:51pm

Ernest wrote: »

As I said earlier:
"Why do these short trains still stop at the very furthest point away from the stairs on southbound services arriving at Tara Street??"

With two-carriage train sets a driver can see back to all the two carriages from any point on the platform - including a point nearer the exit/entrance that pasengers would be using.

there's 2 sets of stairs at Tara St. the stop board is around the Townsend St exit, despite it generally being closed off-peak (when the short trains are running). Its badly placed at P7 in Connolly too - they should be stopping beside the ramp but its a good bit further up the platform.

Also as I mentioned earlier, the diesel trains seem to ignore the stop boards altogether.

Frank Lee Midere · 11-03-2014 2:22pm

loyatemu wrote: »

there's 2 sets of stairs at Tara St. the stop board is around the Townsend St exit, despite it generally being closed off-peak (when the short trains are running). Its badly placed at P7 in Connolly too - they should be stopping beside the ramp but its a good bit further up the platform.

Also as I mentioned earlier, the diesel trains seem to ignore the stop boards altogether.

Diesel trains are all 8 carriages though?

loyatemu · 11-03-2014 3:31pm

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Diesel trains are all 8 carriages though?

Wexford trains are 3 or 4 car, as are some Maynooth trains. Not sure about the northern line trains.

Captain Chaos · 11-03-2014 8:12pm

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Diesel trains are all 8 carriages though?

They are 4 off peak and 8 most of the time for the 29k commuter class.

end of the road · 11-03-2014 11:13pm

loyatemu wrote: »

Wexford trains are 3 or 4 car

3 car ICR or 4 car 29 (which should be gone from the line by now no excuses) god be with the days of a full rake of carriges, then those heaps of junk/scrap that were the 2700s were put on to the line

DART capacity reconfiguration

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