Canada .... Stay or go ?

mickell · 12-08-2014 10:31am #1

Get comfortable, this is a bit of a rant...

I’m 32, married and have two great kids.
We bought our home at the peak of the boom and it’s now worth less than half, I am a fully qualified carpenter but had to return to college and am now employed in the IT sector in a junior position ( having to start at the bottom again )
My wife is employed in the public sector on a part-time bases and now faces redundancy in September.

Basically, we're not living.....we’re surviving. The quality of life in northwest Ireland for families in our situation is fairly poor.

So we're considering a move to Canada.
Does anyone have any advice where to start look into this or have experience in the move.
I have almost 10 years experience in Construction and also 1 and 1/2 as a junior software engineer.
My wife's background is in child care but most recently over 6 years as a special needs assistant.
Kids are 9yrs and 2yrs old.
Big questions where is the best place to live for a young family , good schools and work opportunities !
How much do you need in the bank, where is the best place to start with the visa / work application.
What's the cost of living like ?

Thanks all.
Apologies if this is the wrong form and if so could I be pointed to the correct one.

jaymcg91 · 12-08-2014 3:24pm

Read the IEC sticky at the top of the page.

roundymac · 12-08-2014 3:26pm

A neighbour of mine moved to Canada a few years back. Left what seemed a good job here in the chemical industry. Canada did'nt work out for him, could'nt get work, now back in Ireland for the last 4-5 years and is basicly still out of work, chemical industry had moved on from when he last worked in and so had most of his contacts. So it's a toughfie, if you can put a roof over your head and food on the table I'd stay, would'nt dream of leaving unless you had work arranged before hand.

mickell · 12-08-2014 3:34pm

cheers roundymac, was your mate on his own or did he bring family aswell.

If we're just me, I'd be tempted, but the fact that we'd have zero support going over with two kids, is a big gamble.

thomas anderson. · 12-08-2014 3:39pm

Do it.

I'm trying to convince the missus the go. Dont have a family or mortgage so we are in a better position

goingitalone · 12-08-2014 8:29pm

mickell wrote: »

cheers roundymac, was your mate on his own or did he bring family aswell.

If we're just me, I'd be tempted, but the fact that we'd have zero support going over with two kids, is a big gamble.

If yo go the iec wh visa route,you both need to get one for you wife to work to plus canada isnt cheap . also it depends what role your looking for do you wanna stay in it or go back into construction . im in IT too and ive been looking chances are and your not going to get into a role to start with any more then the position your already have here with not a great about of time within the role . another thing is esp going on a visa like the iec route theres no guarantee that you get pr beiter .so i mean really you have to weight it out are you willing to risk it and hope you do well . you could go be there for 2 years with it costing you allot and then having to come back with nothing . i mean im dont wanna put a downer and going by all means
. But theres allot more to consider when theres kids esp you set up costs

roundymac · 12-08-2014 8:47pm

mickell wrote: »

cheers roundymac, was your mate on his own or did he bring family aswell.

If we're just me, I'd be tempted, but the fact that we'd have zero support going over with two kids, is a big gamble.

Same as you, wife and 1 kid. Could'nt get sponsered or something like that. He used to drive a beamer before he went, he now drives a starlet. Shame, if it had worked out for him he would be doing very well IMO.

mickell · 13-08-2014 9:10am

Ya, you see I would always look at the "what if's", and wife's health was a very doggy for ages , if she was to hit a rough patch when we went there, we would be screwed... there would be no family to call on and whatever about being able to afford childminding , it takes time to find someone you trust...

I think I'd feel more comfortable going if I had more confidence and experience in my current role as a developer..... it would be too easy to go back to construction and that would mean a complete waste of the last number of years !!.... plus construction will boom and bust again, I have no doubt.

handlemaster · 13-08-2014 11:15am

Have you looked at working in Dublin ?

mickell · 13-08-2014 11:33am

No this is gonna sound daft, but living in Dublin would not appeal to me at all.
I am of the mind set if your going to Dublin ya might as well go to Canada.

Commuting would not be a option and rent price would be out of our budget.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think it would be a runner..

theenergy · 13-08-2014 11:37am

if you have 20K saved up

have employment lined up

accomadation sorted

budget for 6+ months

then id go

handlemaster · 13-08-2014 11:39am

Rent ans salaries usually are toe to toe where ever y ou go. Pay would be better in Dublin than west coast. Anyhow id be appyling for jobs un Canada now to see how it goes reponse wise.

goingitalone · 13-08-2014 2:02pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Rent ans salaries usually are toe to toe where ever y ou go. Pay would be better in Dublin than west coast. Anyhow id be appyling for jobs un Canada now to see how it goes reponse wise.

with no visa chances of getting a company to take him on with the little experience with in IT he has is pretty slim to none , alot wont respond to you outside the country with out a Canadian number or address etc .not saying its not possible just highly unlikely . and honestly depending were but the majority a places would be be as expensive as living in dublin too . i think commuting to dublin to work as handlemaster says if you were to get a better postion here makes more sense then going to canada in your position.

mickell · 13-08-2014 2:12pm

Thanks for your input goingitalone and everyone so far.
It's just so easy to get frustrated with everything in Ireland right now.
I know there is talk of a recovery but it will be years before the northwest see's it.

Digital Society · 19-08-2014 11:53am

Mate of mine is a carpenter who just moved to Alberta. Pulls in 1400 euro a week after tax now compared to unemployed the last few years here. He left his family here for a couple of months then brought them over when he saved a few quid. He thought he would need longer but apparently he has 3 years of work on this job alone. Hes 27 year old with Kids like yourself. Was made unemployed in Ireland the day he qualified and struggled since. Odd jobs here and there.

Do it. Your just wasting your skills and life here.

Knowing your leading your kids into the same life and not doing something about it is near child abuse in my opinion. Thats the thought that has me saving to move ASAP. Ill be there in 12 months and nothing is gonna stop me. Imagine 10 years down the line when your child goes through this **** and your seeing people who in Facebook or whatever who did move having a seriously good life.

Not being funny but asking a group of Irish people for advice is just gonna result in a load of negative answers.

Im in the same boat as yourself. Kids, Qualification that should be pulling in good money and getting no younger. Saving 75% of my wages and will be delighted to get that plane ticket.

10 years as a carpenter and IT experience you should EASILY find work there. Both skills are in high demand there but youll earn a ton in Carpentry.

mickell · 19-08-2014 12:00pm

You sound like a fella thats as p*ssed off as me with way things have gone and your right we're doomed to make the same mistakes again in another 10 years and completely screw another generation !

Digital Society · 19-08-2014 1:33pm

Funny how the people throwing in the negative posts all live in ireland. 10 minutes with someone who made the move and you wouldnt even dream about staying.

Im telling you the point of view from someone who made the move. He was back last week and showed me his payslip. 1400Euro after tax for 55 hours work in the week. 700Euro tax. Works with 50 other Irish tradesmen.

Got setup, Saved 9 Grand and bought plenty of stuff for the kids and the missus all in a few months. Steady, really high paid work. Excellent schools, roads and free healthcare from what i understand. Not a mention of penny pinching bull**** you hear here constantly.

Hes been to US and Australia working and he says that Canada is miles ahead for Irish people. US isnt great for jobs and Oz is a racist too hot ****hole.

If you have absolutely any possibility of getting there do. Dont listen to the bull****. Just do it.

mickell · 19-08-2014 2:13pm

Wow €1400 take home !! thats mad . Did he have job lined up before he left ? Or did he wing it ? You make a great argument , but when the kids are involved I'm not keen on gambling!

Digital Society · 19-08-2014 3:25pm

Just had about 3k and went. Picked up work straight away. Im sure theres plenty of forums if you need to make contacts. People dont seem to positive here so maybe go to a different one.

leave the kids and wife here and just go over with a few grand. get work then bring them over. A couple of months for the rest of your life.

Funny how you think its a gamble bringing the kids to a country where your skills and experience can earn you a serious amount of cash quickly and provide your whole family with an amazing life, rather than being a gamble raising them in a hole like Ireland where your skills are worth the same as a bum on the dole who never worked.

No idea why you think that way.

At the end of the day you can be back here in a few hours if anything happens. Its not Mars your going to.

retalivity · 19-08-2014 3:34pm

Great Money.....$50+/hr.....Trade.....Alberta.....
Fort McMurray perhaps?

You may want to look into what its actually like to live there before deciding anything.

mickell · 19-08-2014 3:36pm

Alright, alright, if I didn't know better I'd think I was replying to my wife, I hear ya . Thanks for your verbal kick up the arse !

Digital Society · 19-08-2014 4:49pm

No problem. If you want a physical kick up the arse aswell ill meet you at Dublin Airport. lol

mickell · 19-08-2014 5:01pm

Good man and best of luck to ya !

nicki11 · 19-08-2014 5:11pm

Canada is a lovely country and has plenty of work in construction and IT, I have family there and I will be moving next year there once I get a visa and finish my course. It has better healthcare and definitely a better social life then the north west at least (I'm from Donegal I know what its like) I live in Galway and I lived in Dublin for five years but Galway was better for everything (for me anyway). I'd go for it kids adjust and make friends easy and would enjoy Canada as well and if you are going to do it do it before secondary school because they can be more difficult then (my friends family moved in secondary school and she was a torment to her parents for months and refused to give Florida a go she regrets doing their heads in so much now as she loves it there).

sashafierce · 19-08-2014 5:20pm

This post has been deleted.

salamanca22 · 19-08-2014 5:24pm

There is a reason some of those jobs pay so much. You will be away for weeks at a time working and sleeping in camps with the other workers. There is no social life except for maybe a few bars. A lot of the workers end up gambling to pass the time and lose a lot of the money they earn anyway.

It's grand doing those type of jobs if you are on your own but with a family I would say it's a non starter. Maybe move over yourself op for a while and earn the cash and then after a few months move the family over. It will be a lot tougher than most people will tell you.

mickell · 19-08-2014 5:27pm

Ideally if I was told, that after I worked my 40 - 50 hr week not only will I pay all my bills and have disposal income but could also save so money with the long term plan being to return home (maybe).... then I'd nearly be sold.

I am not afraid of hard work and lets face it, if the cost of not seeing the kids means I provide a better life for them, then it's worth it, rather than working for peanuts here and not getting to see them anyway!!

Alberta, Edmonton, seems to keep coming up when I search, Irish, work, family.
Anyone got any idea what kinda of rent you'd be looking at for 4 bed house in good community ? (incredibly open question but you get the idea)

salamanca22 · 19-08-2014 5:31pm

mickell wrote: »

Ideally if I was told, that after I worked my 40 - 50 hr week not only will I pay all my bills and have disposal income but could also save so money with the long term plan being to return home (maybe).... then I'd nearly be sold.

I am not afraid of hard work and lets face it, if the cost of not seeing the kids means I provide a better life for them, then it's worth it, rather than working for peanuts here and not getting to see them anyway!!

Alberta, Edmonton, seems to keep coming up when I search, Irish, work, family.
Anyone got any idea what kinda of rent you'd be looking at for 4 bed house in good community ? (incredibly open question but you get the idea)

Alberta would be the best place to go for the hard work - good pay jobs.

When you are working you will be given either work digs to stay in while at camp or an allowance to stay in local hotels and b&b's

As for the cost of housing I recommend checking out craigslist and finding suitable accommodation that won't be hours drive from work and is close to a school for the kids (not going to be easy)

The norm in canada is to rent unfurnished houses as well so you need to make sure you are ready to buy your own furniture or find one of the few furnished places.

Best of luck and I think you are doing the right thing even if it means a little time away from the family!

Stinjy · 19-08-2014 11:21pm

Hey mickell I was checking out housing last night for myself in Canada. The people on the Canadian forums said check out kijii for houses but i found padmapper to be a really good one for quick looks at loads of different places. Obviously you'd need to call and view the house. Another thing I realised though I was forewarned about it was that many places for rent come unfurnished so you've got that cost on top of everything else. But I'd be on the encouraging side for going.. seems like a great opportunity and the kids will love some adventure, even if you are back here in a year or two. Don't leave yourself open to regret the chance you didn't take while things aren't so great here

Harryeve · 20-08-2014 8:32am

I'm in Calgary at the moment loads of work in construction I'm a plumber and I'm on high rate of pay you will not make €1400 a week here after tax unless u work crazy hours and pretty much have no life. It's very exspenive here as well so even though your wages might look good when u compare it to back home it doesn't be long going over here. The lads in the oil fields are making good money because no one wants to go up there because it's a horrible life working away in Canada. There's a lot of bull about what people are making over here. Also be warned you could be without work for long periods during the winter in a lot of trades carpenters, brickies, plasterers will have little or no work when it gets into the cold weather.

mickell · 20-08-2014 10:08am

Hi Harryeve, how is going for you over there , are you long in Calgary? thanks for your post, do you mind me asking , works a regular days work like ? start time , finish-time etc ..... Is it just yourself or family ? I'd imagine if I did jump, my wage would have to support the family for first 6 months till wife and youngest gets sorted for childcare etc, is that do-able , a carpenters wage to pay for house rent, all bills and feed family.
I do have a degree in Construction Management and spend a few years as a self-employed carpenter ..... would I be considered for a type of assistant site manager role .... or is that fairly unlikely without the experience ?
I think your the first trades man to post on this, so I'd appreciate all info you can provide

Digital Society · 20-08-2014 10:48am

salamanca22 wrote: »

There is a reason some of those jobs pay so much. You will be away for weeks at a time working and sleeping in camps with the other workers. There is no social life except for maybe a few bars. A lot of the workers end up gambling to pass the time and lose a lot of the money they earn anyway.

It's grand doing those type of jobs if you are on your own but with a family I would say it's a non starter. Maybe move over yourself op for a while and earn the cash and then after a few months move the family over. It will be a lot tougher than most people will tell you.

Thats only in the camp work. Not all work is camp work. You can work in the cities no problem and have a good social life.

Camp work is 3 weeks on and then the rest of month off and pays $10k a month. Nice to have that option if your over there by yourself before bringing the family over.

Harryeve · 20-08-2014 6:35pm

mickell wrote: »

Hi Harryeve, how is going for you over there , are you long in Calgary? thanks for your post, do you mind me asking , works a regular days work like ? start time , finish-time etc ..... Is it just yourself or family ? I'd imagine if I did jump, my wage would have to support the family for first 6 months till wife and youngest gets sorted for childcare etc, is that do-able , a carpenters wage to pay for house rent, all bills and feed family.
I do have a degree in Construction Management and spend a few years as a self-employed carpenter ..... would I be considered for a type of assistant site manager role .... or is that fairly unlikely without the experience ?
I think your the first trades man to post on this, so I'd appreciate all info you can provide

Hi I'm here about 5 months I'm a plumber I'm getting $39 an hour working 40 hours a week 8.00 to 4.30 the company I work for don't allow us to do any overtime because they don't want to pay any overtime rates. I know my trade is one of the best for having constant work in the winter time because of service work like frozen pipes a lot of other trades get laid off during the bad weather. I came over with my girlfriend she works in finance she's only getting $23 an hour it just gets her by each week pay rent bills and food. A carpenters wage would be similar to a plumber but they might start u off on $25-$30 for the first month or 2. If I was in your position I'd come over in May just as the weather gets a bit better come over on your own for the first 2 months and get set up u won't support a family over here on 1 wage. We live in a tiny 1 bed apartment $1400 a month tv and Internet $100 a month shopping $200 a week a few drinks at the weekend $200
Between $7-$9 a pint and then you have to tip 15% on food,drink, taxis, haircuts, pretty much every service u get.

ustari · 21-08-2014 6:01am

To be fair, your girlfriends wage is better than you make out, especially considering the money you are on.

You are bringing in over 100k Net each year if I've calculated correctly.

Harryeve · 21-08-2014 7:15am

ustari wrote: »

To be fair, your girlfriends wage is better than you make out, especially considering the money you are on.

You are bringing in over 100k Net each year if I've calculated correctly.

I earn $1200= €824 a week after tax
She earns $700=€481 a week after tax
You have to pay into a pension fund each week as well as your taxes I lose around $400 a week on taxes and pension.
Rent is $1400 a month for a tiny unfurnished 1 bed apartment your looking at $2000 for a 2 bed apartment. The wages look okay but with the cost of living over here compared to home it's hard to save any money.
The basics are expensive
Milk 2 litre $5
Bread $5
4 chicken breasts $20
Mince meat 1kg $15
Fruit and veg is expensive too.
Beer $8 a pint +15% tip

I'm not advising anyone not to give it a go over here I'm just giving my honest opinion on it we both have decent jobs and are still finding it hard to save money. If someone with no trade or skills came here they would really struggle. I lived in Australia for 3 years I thought that was expensive as well but not as bad as Canada some things are just way over priced $30 to get my hair cut and that's the basic rate €10 at home the little bit extra that u make here is gone very quickly.

ustari · 21-08-2014 7:30am

I'm in Vancouver. While I agree that groceries are more expensive they can still be gotten a lot cheaper than the prices you are quoting.

I find quite a bit on par with Dublin in terms of cost actually, I would be paying the equivalent rent for an equivalent place in Dublin. I'm based in downtown Vancouver and there is a place up the street that does 16 dollar hair cuts.

The tipping culture is very annoying, especially when they haven't done anything bar the basic service expected. Got a wrap from a deli the other day and when I put my card in to the pay the first thing that greeted me was how much I wanted to tip (15, 20 or 25 as preset choices), I have other and selected none.

I'm not wishing to pick holes in your statements, I just wanted people to hear the otherside of things on here. I know I was very worried coming over from reading some of the posts on this forum. Personally I am getting paid more than I would be at home and am experiencing a better lifestyle thus far.

Harryeve · 21-08-2014 2:05pm

ustari wrote: »

I'm in Vancouver. While I agree that groceries are more expensive they can still be gotten a lot cheaper than the prices you are quoting.

I find quite a bit on par with Dublin in terms of cost actually, I would be paying the equivalent rent for an equivalent place in Dublin. I'm based in downtown Vancouver and there is a place up the street that does 16 dollar hair cuts.

The tipping culture is very annoying, especially when they haven't done anything bar the basic service expected. Got a wrap from a deli the other day and when I put my card in to the pay the first thing that greeted me was how much I wanted to tip (15, 20 or 25 as preset choices), I have other and selected none.

I'm not wishing to pick holes in your statements, I just wanted people to hear the otherside of things on here. I know I was very worried coming over from reading some of the posts on this forum. Personally I am getting paid more than I would be at home and am experiencing a better lifestyle thus far.

Your in a different state I'm in Alberta that's how much things cost in Calgary meat is very expensive I've shopped in Walmart, Safeway, Canadian superstore, co op, and cosco they are all the same each shop has there own little deals each week but even doing a small shop for 2 for the week is easily at least $200. As for $16 hair cut I'd guess that's some student training to be a barber.

Maybe because Alberta is booming the prices are going up. Unless you are going to earn between $30 ~ $40 a hour you will struggle in this city.

mickell · 21-08-2014 2:38pm

Crap ! if a 2 bed apartment is going for €2000, how much are you looking at for a 3/4 bed house with a garden , in Alberta (just using Alberta as an example as it keeps coming back on results for trades etc.)

Harryeve · 21-08-2014 6:24pm

mickell wrote: »

Crap ! if a 2 bed apartment is going for €2000, how much are you looking at for a 3/4 bed house with a garden , in Alberta (just using Alberta as an example as it keeps coming back on results for trades etc.)

It all depends what part of town u live in the south west and northwest are nice areas stay away from the northeast. Try rentfaster.com that's the best place to get an idea of what u will pay try find a place near the train line as well because some of the suburbs have nothing in them no shops u might have a 20-30 drive to a shopping centre. If your on Facebook join the Irish in Calgary page loads of info and help on it.

Harryeve · 21-08-2014 6:31pm

Harryeve wrote: »

It all depends what part of town u live in the south west and northwest are nice areas stay away from the northeast. Try rentfaster.com that's the best place to get an idea of what u will pay try find a place near the train line as well because some of the suburbs have nothing in them no shops u might have a 20-30 drive to a shopping centre. If your on Facebook join the Irish in Calgary page loads of info and help on it.

3 bed $2800-$3500 in the southwest/southeast of the city a month it's and the market for rental is fast property's don't stay available at all the day someone moves out they have someone lined up straight away. They also rent most property's unfurnished and rent them on the first of each month so near impossible to get a place in the middle of a month. You also have to pay a bond and first months rent in advance so if u find a place for $3k it's $6k up front before u move in

Crann na Beatha · 21-08-2014 7:07pm

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Harryeve · 21-08-2014 8:48pm

Phoenix wrote: »

This stay away from the NE lark is very unfair not all of it is a kip,sure there are dodgy areas but dont forget the NW,SE and SW have those kinda areas too

That's what I've been told since I got here to stay away from the ne I've worked in it a lot I wouldn't live there homeless and scumbags seem to be a common site. I've seen none of that in the sw apart from the homeless going through the bins collecting cans. For a family definitely live in the sw or nw

Crann na Beatha · 21-08-2014 9:01pm

This post has been deleted.

Harryeve · 21-08-2014 9:10pm

Harryeve wrote: »

That's what I've been told since I got here to stay away from the ne I've worked in it a lot I wouldn't live there homeless and scumbags seem to be a common site. I've seen none of that in the sw apart from the homeless going through the bins collecting cans. For a family definitely live in the sw or nw

Fair enough if your happy there good for you I've only seen small parts of it so I'm going from that and what the locals and Irish have told me so far. I'm sure the might be some decent parts of it but in general the sw is a better part of the city

Crann na Beatha · 21-08-2014 9:13pm

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TechnoPool · 22-08-2014 12:08am

Harryeve wrote: »

3 bed $2800-$3500 in the southwest/southeast of the city a month it's and the market for rental is fast property's don't stay available at all the day someone moves out they have someone lined up straight away. They also rent most property's unfurnished and rent them on the first of each month so near impossible to get a place in the middle of a month. You also have to pay a bond and first months rent in advance so if u find a place for $3k it's $6k up front before u move in

Where the hell are you looking?

this is completely blown out of proportion. A quick look on rentfaster and there are pages of 3 bed rooms houses for 2200-3000.

ustari · 22-08-2014 5:34am

That's the problem with a lot of these threads, I think they are quite negative and I am just trying to give the other side of it that I have had so far.

evo2000 · 22-08-2014 6:08am

Big gamble id reckon, ive heard alot of people that went to the promised land Oz, canada ect end up coming back worse off than when they went the grass isnt always greener on the other side as they say!

You d def want to plan it out well, have alot of back up money, have a job ready to go ect another thing would be child care, if things go sour over there you ll have no where near the support you d have back home,

Ireland isnt all that bad of a place to live..i think people are awful quick to take for granted what they have, you say you re only surviving here, dont be under any illusions that you ll land over to canada and be doing anything different, but anyway

Its a tough call but if it were me id want the odds to be heavily in my favor before id even consider it,

Long Gone · 22-08-2014 3:09pm

evo2000 wrote: »

Big gamble id reckon, ive heard alot of people that went to the promised land Oz, canada ect end up coming back worse off than when they went the grass isnt always greener on the other side as they say!

I don't know of any Irish emigrants who go around on a daily basis bemoaning the fact that they left Ireland - Quite the contrary in fact. Not a day goes by that most of us don't thank God that we had the courage and sense to get out of Ireland when we did. Anyone who is successful in Ireland is being taxed, stealth taxed and levied to within an inch of their lives. The country has been destroyed economically and socially by a bunch of corrupt crooks - and the bill for the damage which has been foisted onto the Irish taxpayers will take decades to repay.....

Nothing ventured nothing gained - Fortune always favours the brave.

evo2000 · 22-08-2014 4:35pm

Long Gone wrote: »

I don't know of any Irish emigrants who go around on a daily basis bemoaning the fact that they left Ireland - Quite the contrary in fact. Not a day goes by that most of us don't thank God that we had the courage and sense to get out of Ireland when we did. Anyone who is successful in Ireland is being taxed, stealth taxed and levied to within an inch of their lives. The country has been destroyed economically and socially by a bunch of corrupt crooks - and the bill for the damage which has been foisted onto the Irish taxpayers will take decades to repay.....

Nothing ventured nothing gained - Fortune always favours the brave.

Easy there rambo

Nothing ventured nothing gained - Fortune always favours the brave
Its easy to go by that when youre not bringing 2 kids over with yeah,

krudler · 22-08-2014 5:29pm

Everyone has their own experience here, I came over not wanting anything more than dragging myself out of a job rut back home, trying something totally different and giving myself opportunities I don't have back home and to at least say I tried something in life and wouldnt regret not coming.
Yeah it gets lonely and Canadians are quite hard to make friends with, they're friendly and polite, but very cliquey but there's loads of Irish here.
I have my own plan and idea of what I want here and a list of stuff I wanted to do, after that who knows, I might stay I might not.

Canada .... Stay or go ?

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