Sick and tired of Bus Éireann

twinkylinky · 08-01-2013 1:34am #1

honestly. im sick and tired of bus eireann fare rate. it inreases every year. it has totally gotten out of hand now. a single from dublin to navan is nearly €12..i was shocked. i remember when i used to pay €8 for a single. a return is expensive too, not to even mention the weekly ticket. they should try and accommodate their customers financially, i think we hve accommodated them enough now.. this is sickening. when i hear dublin people complaining about dublin bus fare i just

Dravokivich · 08-01-2013 9:12am

People complain in Dublin because the fares increase every year here too. Per journey costs you significantly more due to the length of it. Doesn't make the complaints from people travelling within Dublin any less a concern if fares are an issue for them.

schemingbohemia · 08-01-2013 12:11pm

Have you looked at getting a www.taxsaver.ie ticket?

Hilly Bill · 08-01-2013 10:30pm

twinkylinky wrote: »

honestly. im sick and tired of bus eireann fare rate. it inreases every year. it has totally gotten out of hand now. a single from dublin to navan is nearly €12..i was shocked. i remember when i used to pay €8 for a single. a return is expensive too, not to even mention the weekly ticket. they should try and accommodate their customers financially, i think we hve accommodated them enough now.. this is sickening. when i hear dublin people complaining about dublin bus fare i just

€12 from Dublin to Navan? whats wrong with that? where else will you get a journey of that length at that price?

Cookie_Monster · 08-01-2013 10:44pm

sure it's only a 46km cycle, you'd save a fortune and it's only take you 2.5 hours each way.

or drive and pay fuel and maint and parking and tax and insurance, that's almost definitly going to be cheaper too.

n97 mini · 08-01-2013 11:10pm

It does sound expensive when you consider it's only €12 Cork to Dublin.

Is there any competition on the Navan route?

devnull · 08-01-2013 11:18pm

n97 mini wrote: »

It does sound expensive when you consider it's only €12 Cork to Dublin.

Is there any competition on the Navan route?

€9 with Aircoach, so even cheaper

Don't thin there is anything on the Navan route but I could be wrong.

monkeypants · 08-01-2013 11:20pm

Or cycle some of the way and bus the rest. Any other option such as a car or a bike will require investment up front and won't save you anything.

08-01-2013 11:22pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

People complain in Dublin because the fares increase every year here too. Per journey costs you significantly more due to the length of it. Doesn't make the complaints from people travelling within Dublin any less a concern if fares are an issue for them.

Exactly. I remember that the 1-3 stage fare was €1 in 2007. It's now €1.65; a 65% increase in 5-6 years.

devnull · 08-01-2013 11:29pm

I remember it being 90c in 2006

08-01-2013 11:30pm

devnull wrote: »

I remember it being 90c in 2006

Ah, I didn't live in Dublin then.

LXFlyer · 09-01-2013 8:40am

Karsini wrote: »

Exactly. I remember that the 1-3 stage fare was €1 in 2007. It's now €1.65; a 65% increase in 5-6 years.

Why do you and others persist in quoting the cash fares, when the relevant fare is that using a LEAP card.

Cash fares were increased quite deliberately at a higher rate than LEAP fares in order to incentivise people to use LEAP.

The relevant fare is €1.40 and not €1.65.

LXFlyer · 09-01-2013 8:46am

devnull wrote: »

€9 with Aircoach, so even cheaper

Don't thin there is anything on the Navan route but I could be wrong.

Sillan Tours operate a limited commuter service (4 services per day) between Cootehill and Dublin that serves Navan and other places en route.

Fare is €8 single, €14 return and €50 10 Journey.

However I'd make the point that Navan has a far better bus service from Bus Eireann in terms of frequency than it used to have (effectively every 30 minutes 7 days a week, with peak extras), which is going to cost more to provide - there would be an element of cross-subsidisation as many of these would have lower loadings than others.

ANXIOUS · 09-01-2013 9:16am

The thing that annoys me most is that you can't use return tickets the same way.

09-01-2013 9:27am

lxflyer wrote: »

Why do you and others persist in quoting the cash fares, when the relevant fare is that using a LEAP card.

Cash fares were increased quite deliberately at a higher rate than LEAP fares in order to incentivise people to use LEAP.

The relevant fare is €1.40 and not €1.65.

You must be mixing me up for someone else; I'm usually siding with you here. This is the first time I've mentioned it in such a context.

LXFlyer · 09-01-2013 10:31am

Karsini wrote: »

You must be mixing me up for someone else; I'm usually siding with you here. This is the first time I've mentioned it in such a context.

Fair enough - the context of my post was that people who are complaining about the fare increases virtually all quote the increased cash fares rather than the appropriate LEAP fare.

The LEAP fare is now the appropriate fare to quote as cash fares have been (to a degree) artificially increased.

n97 mini · 09-01-2013 1:32pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Sillan Tours operate a limited commuter service (4 services per day) between Cootehill and Dublin that serves Navan and other places en route.

Fare is €8 single, €14 return and €50 10 Journey.

However I'd make the point that Navan has a far better bus service from Bus Eireann in terms of frequency than it used to have (effectively every 30 minutes 7 days a week, with peak extras), which is going to cost more to provide - there would be an element of cross-subsidisation as many of these would have lower loadings than others.

Do Bus Éireann receive a state subsidy?

With a level of service that frequent it could be argued BÉ has the route pretty much saturated.

schemingbohemia · 09-01-2013 1:43pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Do Bus Éireann receive a state subsidy?

With a level of service that frequent it could be argued BÉ has the route pretty much saturated.

They can't win, provide a good frequent service and they're accused of saturating a route?

Is the Navan service a subsidised service or an expressway?

With a taxsaver ticket and presuming a 48 week working year the OP could be paying either €25.14 a week or €36.14 a week depending on tax band. That is great value - €2.50 each way from Navan.

LXFlyer · 09-01-2013 1:48pm

Navan is a PSO route - route 109.

The NTA would approve the timetable.

foggy_lad · 09-01-2013 1:50pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Fair enough - the context of my post was that people who are complaining about the fare increases virtually all quote the increased cash fares rather than the appropriate LEAP fare.

The LEAP fare is now the appropriate fare to quote as cash fares have been (to a degree) artificially increased.

Most people going to the driver on buses and at IR tvm's still pay cash so that is the relevant and appropriate fare to quote.

Dravokivich · 09-01-2013 1:56pm

Ease those twisting knickers, both cash and leap fares are relevant, but depend on circumstances.

Just because Leap is cheaper does not mean it should be considered the defacto rate for all Dublinbus users.

LXFlyer · 09-01-2013 1:58pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Most people going to the driver on buses and at IR tvm's still pay cash so that is the relevant and appropriate fare to quote.

OK wonderful thinking there.

You compare a fare at one point in time with another that had had artificial increases built into it??

As usual your logic is rubbish. It is irrelevant that people are not bothering to avail of the lower fares - that's their choice.

But to suggest that you do not compare a fare from several years back with the cheapest available now is up there with all the rest of the uninformed nonsense that forms the bulk of your posts on this board.

LXFlyer · 09-01-2013 2:01pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Ease those twisting knickers, both cash and leap fares are relevant, but depend on circumstances.

Just because Leap is cheaper does not mean it should be considered the defacto rate for all Dublinbus users.

Why not?

As I've pointed out the cash fares have been deliberately increased by the NTA at a higher percentage rate than LEAP to incentivise people to switch.

You are not comparing like with like and it's like comparing a sale price in a shop from a few years ago with a pre-sale price this year.

foggy_lad · 09-01-2013 2:02pm

lxflyer wrote: »

OK wonderful thinking there.

You compare a fare at one point in time with another that had had artificial increases built into it??

As usual your logic is rubbish. It is irrelevant that people are not bothering to avail of the lower fares - that's their choice.

But to suggest that you do not compare a fare from several years back with the cheapest available now is up there with all the rest of the uninformed nonsense that forms the bulk of your posts on this board.

It is an increase in the fare and should be compared regardless of the reasons for it.

LXFlyer · 09-01-2013 2:12pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is an increase in the fare and should be compared regardless of the reasons for it.

That sort of thinking just frankly proves how irrelevant your posts are on this board - utter nonsense.

LivelineDipso · 09-01-2013 2:21pm

devnull wrote: »

I remember it being 90c in 2006

Well you were warned that if privatisation came to CIE it would result is huge fare increases and reduction in services.

Oh wait...

foggy_lad · 09-01-2013 2:32pm

lxflyer wrote: »

That sort of thinking just frankly proves how irrelevant your posts are on this board - utter nonsense.

So the fares have been increased but you chose to ignore those increases because they make the CIE group look bad and instead you sanitise the increases by saying that Leap fares are the only ones being compared now and they have not increased as much.

This looks like more of the creative accounting which bus éireann engage in.

AlekSmart · 09-01-2013 2:35pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Ease those twisting knickers, both cash and leap fares are relevant, but depend on circumstances.

Just because Leap is cheaper does not mean it should be considered the defacto rate for all Dublinbus users.

Well...IF the introduction of the Integrated Ticketing Scheme had been professionally and competently handled to begin with,then yes,the Leapcard Fare would be the dei-facto fare.

However,it was'nt and as a result we have to endure debate such as this... c.€40 Million and 13 years later....sheesh...:o

JustAddWater · 09-01-2013 2:40pm

lxflyer wrote: »

You are not comparing like with like and it's like comparing a sale price in a shop from a few years ago with a pre-sale price this year.

We're not comparing like for like?

Cash fare 2006 vs cash fare 2013

Please enlighten us as to how you came up with that one? Couldn't be any more alike

You want to compare a cash fare against a discounted travel card

It's you who's got a basket of oranges...

LXFlyer · 09-01-2013 2:42pm

No I don't. LEAP is not discounted - the cash fare is inflated. There is a difference. The likelihood is that cash fares will continue to increase in future years at an increased % rate as they did this year when compared with LEAP fare increases.

The relevant cost for non-prepaid travel in Dublin is the LEAP fare and people need to get that into their heads.

STForSale · 09-01-2013 2:57pm

lxflyer wrote: »

No I don't. LEAP is not discounted - the cash fare is inflated. There is a difference. The likelihood is that cash fares will continue to increase in future years at an increased % rate as they did this year when compared with LEAP fare increases.

The relevant cost for non-prepaid travel in Dublin is the LEAP fare and people need to get that into their heads.

Have BE even rolled out leap cards?
The service I use certainly doesn't accept it.
Bit unfair to say the leap price is the standard when it is not even available on all routes.

LXFlyer · 09-01-2013 2:59pm

No - we've got a bit off-topic!

Dravokivich · 09-01-2013 3:02pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Why not?

As I've pointed out the cash fares have been deliberately increased by the NTA at a higher percentage rate than LEAP to incentivise people to switch.

You are not comparing like with like and it's like comparing a sale price in a shop from a few years ago with a pre-sale price this year.

Simply because most journeys aren't made with it.

Losty Dublin · 09-01-2013 3:34pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Simply because most journeys aren't made with it.

To be fair to LX, he is right in saying what he is here. The LEAP fare there for all to avail off without jumping through hoops or complex procedure to follow; it is customers look out if they choose not to use LEAP and get cheaper fares.

foggy_lad · 09-01-2013 3:43pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

To be fair to LX, he is right in saying what he is here. The LEAP fare there for all to avail off without jumping through hoops or complex procedure to follow; it is customers look out if they choose not to use LEAP and get cheaper fares.

Wait till you get overcharged and have to go searching for a refund, you must attend Dublin bus HQ in person for any DB refunds while at least the others are paid back to your card you may be told to jump between Irish Rail and Leap a few times before anyone takes ownership of it!

god help us if it ever gets rolled out fully on Bus Éireann.

AlekSmart · 09-01-2013 3:43pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

To be fair to LX, he is right in saying what he is here. The LEAP fare there for all to avail off without jumping through hoops or complex procedure to follow; it is customers look out if they choose not to use LEAP and get cheaper fares.

The real,and VERY important,issue here is the numbers of Commuters who are choosing to avoid Leapcard.

The ones I commune with daily who tell me that because they only use the Bus occasionally they would have no need for a Leapcard....:rolleyes:

Somewhere,somehow,the NTA have singularly failed to place Leapcard within the grasp of the very group it is specifically aimed at currently !!!

Relaunch Leapcard NOW !

Make it VISIBLE....if the NTA do not address this problem rapidly,then no amount of new products,"coming soon" will increase its market penetration.....

For example,how much damage has this article done today,in the mind of a potential customer who has never even seen a Leapcard....

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/91716?userlanguage=ga&save_prefs=true

Leapcard do not have a guaranteed customer base,they will have to work for it,and as yet,I see little sign that they realize this ! :mad:

Dravokivich · 09-01-2013 3:44pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

To be fair to LX, he is right in saying what he is here. The LEAP fare there for all to avail off without jumping through hoops or complex procedure to follow; it is customers look out if they choose not to use LEAP and get cheaper fares.

You could say the same thing for T90's over paying cash/leap fare for 13+ stages. It doesn't change that most people are purchasing with cash as opposed to Leap. The availability of it doesn't mean much without a significant uptake whereby the amount of leap fares taken are greater than the amount of Cash fares taken. Until then, the Cash fare is going to be the concern of most consumers.

LXFlyer · 09-01-2013 3:44pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Simply because most journeys aren't made with it.

As someone who professionally works with figures day in day out and has to make decisions based on them, I'd like to think I know what's relevant and what is not in terms of making an informed decision and comparing like with like.

Simply because the majority of people choose to pay an artificially inflated cash fare does not make it more relevant than LEAP. It says people are not thinking with their heads.

Dravokivich · 09-01-2013 3:46pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

For example,how much damage has this article done today,in the mind of a potential customer who has never even seen a Leapcard....

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/91716?userlanguage=ga&save_prefs=true

Leapcard do not have a guaranteed customer base,they will have to work for it,and as yet,I see little sign that they realize this ! :mad:

Eh...

"In support of Pamela Izevbekhai and her daughters"

:pac:

foggy_lad · 09-01-2013 3:47pm

lxflyer wrote: »

As someone who professionally works with figures day in day out and has to make decisions based on them, I'd like to think I know what's relevant and what is not in terms of making an informed decision and comparing like with like.

Simply because the majority of people choose to pay an artificially inflated cash fare does not make it more relevant than LEAP. It says people are not thinking with their heads.

It says they would rather cut off their heads than use the leap card!

LXFlyer · 09-01-2013 3:49pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

You could say the same thing for T90's over paying cash/leap fare for 13+ stages. It doesn't change that most people are purchasing with cash as opposed to Leap. The availability of it doesn't mean much without a significant uptake whereby the amount of leap fares taken are greater than the amount of Cash fares taken. Until then, the Cash fare is going to be the concern of most consumers.

Dravokivich - you're missing the fundamental point that the cash fares were deliberately increased by a higher percentage than LEAP fares were - in order to dis-incentivise paying by cash.

dudara · 09-01-2013 3:56pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The real,and VERY important,issue here is the numbers of Commuters who are choosing to avoid Leapcard.

The ones I commune with daily who tell me that because they only use the Bus occasionally they would have no need for a Leapcard....:rolleyes:

Somewhere,somehow,the NTA have singularly failed to place Leapcard within the grasp of the very group it is specifically aimed at currently !!!

One major issue with the Leap card is that your online topups have to be collected at a Luas or DART station, or at a Payzone retailer. The ticket machines on the bus cannot transmit the topup to your card. This is a wee bit of an inconvenience. I would be mainly a bus user, but once every so often, I take the Luas home so that I can collect my card topup.

lil5 · 09-01-2013 3:58pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Dravokivich - you're missing the fundamental point ...

He's not missing any point - he is fundamentally comparing a cash fare with another cash fare.

devnull · 09-01-2013 4:00pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

it is customers look out if they choose not to use LEAP and get cheaper fares.

Totally agree with that - for some reason people in Dublin have this fascination in paying with cash, the irony is they are usually the ones that moan that Dublin Bus or Irish Rail is ripping them off

Dravokivich wrote: »

Simply because most journeys aren't made with it.

See above post - maybe they are not, but the fare still exists and if people want to still pay in cash they have that choice, but it really annoys me to see people come on boards and moan about cash fare rises then say they don't want to get a leap card.

AlekSmart wrote: »

The real,and VERY important,issue here is the numbers of Commuters who are choosing to avoid Leapcard.

For example,how much damage has this article done today,in the mind of a potential customer who has never even seen a Leapcard....

Leapcard do not have a guaranteed customer base,they will have to work for it,and as yet,I see little sign that they realize this ! :mad:

It doesn't help when the press are printing articles such as in today's Indy which are misleading to say the least. It gives off the impression the leap card is to blame for overcharging and scares people off using it, despite the fact that the bulk of the problem is due to failures with equipment from Irish Rail.
A more accurate headline would have been "Commuters overcharged due to Irish Rail Validator Issues"

foggy_lad wrote: »

It says they would rather cut off their heads than use the leap card!

And the majority of people who say such things generally have not used the card at all and actually just go on the hyperbole that is pushed in the press and by people like you on here who vastly exaggerate every little thing to suit you own agenda which is basically bash Irish Rail for everything, bash every single bus driver in any CIE company and bash the leap card for anything possible even when it is out of their hands.

lxflyer wrote: »

Simply because the majority of people choose to pay an artificially inflated cash fare does not make it more relevant than LEAP. It says people are not thinking with their heads.

Well said.

Dravokivich · 09-01-2013 4:04pm

lxflyer wrote: »

As someone who professionally works with figures day in day out and has to make decisions based on them, I'd like to think I know what's relevant and what is not in terms of making an informed decision and comparing like with like.

That'll be what's relevant to you along with how you choose to perceive and use such information. It's visibly evident that the large number of consumers have decided not to if they persist in paying cash fares.

lxflyer wrote: »

Simply because the majority of people choose to pay an artificially inflated cash fare does not make it more relevant than LEAP. It says people are not thinking with their heads.

However artificial they may be, it is still a fare that has been set for consumers to pay in the manner which they choose to pay. Whether or not it's down to them not using their heads, well, that depends on why they decided not to take up on using a leap card.

lxflyer wrote: »

Dravokivich - you're missing the fundamental point that the cash fares were deliberately increased by a higher percentage than LEAP fares were - in order to dis-incentivise paying by cash.

I'm not. Until such a time it's been shown that's occured, it's still pretty much a case of, cash is king.

devnull · 09-01-2013 4:04pm

lil5 wrote: »

He's not missing any point - he is fundamentally comparing a cash fare with another cash fare.

I think a more valid comparison is the cheapest prepay fare possible.

Although as I stated in my last post, people in Dublin have this bizarre fascination with paying in cash that they seem not to let go of.

Perhaps you should go and compare cash fare on London buses before Oyster and a few years after and see thee big difference there.

I'm sure the cash fare will come out terrible value and much larger. But then again almost nobody uses cash as they found out Oyster was much cheaper.

devnull · 09-01-2013 4:08pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

It's visibly evident that the large number of consumers have decided not to if they persist in paying cash fares.

But my point is this, if they have chosen to pay more for their fare then you know it's a bit laughable to see people then complain that there fare is too expensive when they are not being forced to pay a larger fare, they are actually openly choosing to do so

It's like buying something from a local shop and buying a more expensive version of the same thing and moaning it's too expensive, but at the same time deciding not to buy the cheaper one that is also as an option.

Nobody is forced to pay cash, although you'd swear some people were from some things I read on here at times.

I'm not. Until such a time it's been shown that's occured, it's still pretty much a case of, cash is king.

Again I'm not sure why people in Dublin are obsessed by paying in cash. Cash may well be king to some people, but as I said such people then shouldn't complain that their fare is too expensive.

It's like someone paying 2x maximum cash fares a day rather than buying a prepaid ticket, they are another group who moan about fares being too high, but again they have a huge range of tickets they are able to buy but choose not to, but then go off on a rant about the fares being too high.

LXFlyer · 09-01-2013 4:14pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

That'll be what's relevant to you along with how you choose to perceive and use such information. It's visibly evident that the large number of consumers have decided not to if they persist in paying cash fares.

However artificial they may be, it is still a fare that has been set for consumers to pay in the manner which they choose to pay. Whether or not it's down to them not using their heads, well, that depends on why they decided not to take up on using a leap card.

I'm not. Until such a time it's been shown that's occured, it's still pretty much a case of, cash is king.

What more is needed than the following from the NTA fare determinations:

The Authority is nevertheless mindful of the cost-of-living issues that are affecting commuters and of providing value and alternatives. Customers migrating from cash to Leap will notice increased savings with the differential for adults widening for each of the fare bands, from an average of 10% to 12%, through lower Leap fare increases. In respect of children, customers will also observe increased savings in migrating from cash to Leap card with the differential increasing from an average of 7% to 9.6% and also that Leap card schoolchild (i.e. a child travelling in the school hours period) fares have been kept constant with a differential increased to 12.5% relative to cash fares.

Dravokivich · 09-01-2013 4:26pm

All my point was, is that because leap is available now, while also being cheaper to use, doesn't make complaints from people about cash fares any less relevant. With leap still being as fresh as it is, it shouldn't be considered the standard method of payment for fares. You can question peoples use of cash and dismiss'em for it all you want. But that doesn't stop people from complaining about if they wish regardless of the other options (made)known to them.

Losty Dublin · 09-01-2013 4:30pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

You could say the same thing for T90's over paying cash/leap fare for 13+ stages. It doesn't change that most people are purchasing with cash as opposed to Leap. The availability of it doesn't mean much without a significant uptake whereby the amount of leap fares taken are greater than the amount of Cash fares taken. Until then, the Cash fare is going to be the concern of most consumers.

Apples and oranges regards a T 90 and it's off the point. LEAP is a direct alternative to cash. LEAP fares are cheaper than cash fares. LEAP is widely available to buy and to top up all over the city. While it's faults and implementation are many, there is no getting past the fact that it is readily available and that there are no strings attached.

devnull · 09-01-2013 4:38pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

All my point was, is that because leap is available now, while also being cheaper to use, doesn't make complaints from people about cash fares any less relevant.

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more, someone complaining their fare is too expensive but then turning down the options to pay less do not have a complaint that is really relevant, it just shows people who are too resistant to change and don't want to move with the times.

In the last few years, whilst there is still a long way to go, we've seen real improvements in the way transport is run, with the Leap Card, Real Time information, much more modern spec vehicles (GT's), a proper national journey planner, proper trueform bus stops, mobile apps just to name a few things.

Bus transport in this country until a few years ago was stuck in a time warp where it was way behind other comparable cities in Europe, but even as someone who doesn't use the bus on a regular basis anymore, even I can see that getting the bus now and getting information is a better experience than it was five years ago. Sure there are still problems that need to be overcome but the system is developing.

Although the amount of people who I see are very resistant to change and moving things forward really astounds me, I don't think any other capital city I've been in has a fixation on cash fares like people do in Dublin, nearly everyone has either hiked cash fares up heavily in favour of prepay smartcards or in some countries buying tickets from a driver is not even possible.

Sick and tired of Bus Éireann

Comments