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FG, Lab other support Stag Hunting

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    #122
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    As im sure you are aware that document you are quoting is 3weeks shy of 5yrs old.

    And what's your point

    It is still on their active website as their number one policy point on Blood Sports


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    #123
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Vegeta wrote: »
    According to you

    No according to John Gormley, i quoted him for you earlier.

    And according to the new programme for goverment, i.e. what the goverment intends to do for the duration.


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    #124
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    Vegeta wrote: »
    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

    How do you know it's a minority?
    round tower huntsman wrote: »
    RISE got 60,000 signatures on paper with anothe 40,000 on email. thats a lot of voters.

    sounds like a minority to me...


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    #125
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Vegeta wrote: »
    And what's your point

    It is still on their active website as their number one policy point on Blood Sports

    My point is that, they said this before they were in goverment. So this has changed since they came into goverment to fall in line with fianna fails policy.


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    #126
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    Fox hunting will not be banned, you are scare mongering.
    So why should one form of hunting be partially banned and not another?


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    #127
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So why should one form of hunting be partially banned and not another?

    I don't know. All i can do is speak for myself, i am more than happy to hunt with a gun. As i feel a swift death is more likely to follow also the animal will not be under any stress, i am however against a pack of dogs chasing a stag around for a couple of hours.

    The likely hood here is of more injury and stress for the animal.


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    #128
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    I don't know. All i can do is speak for myself, i am more than happy to hunt with a gun. As i feel a swift death is more likely to follow also the animal will not be under any stress, i am however against a pack of dogs chasing a stag around for a couple of hours.

    The likely hood here is of more injury and stress for the animal.
    Well half the fun is galloping through the fields on the horse...


    So its ok to kill the animal as long as you shoot it?


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    #129
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Well half the fun is galloping through the fields on the horse...


    So its ok to kill the animal as long as you shoot it?

    In my opinion i do not have a problem with experienced hunters shooting vermin.

    If half the fun is jumping around fields on horses, why dont they just have the hounds follow a pre-laid scent trail?


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    #130
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    In my opinion i do not have a problem with experienced hunters shooting vermin.

    If half the fun is jumping around fields on horses, why dont they just have the hounds follow a pre-laid scent trail?
    Well I have never been on a hunt myself, but I have done quite a bit of cross country. A dragline is much more predictable, same with a pre laid trail. Much more hassle too I imagine, also if it is towed behind a land rover, how do you cross ditches etc?


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    #131
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Well I have never been on a hunt myself, but I have done quite a bit of cross country. A dragline is much more predictable, same with a pre laid trail. Much more hassle too I imagine, also if it is towed behind a land rover, how do you cross ditches etc?

    You have someone go out before hand and lay down the scent. That way you can make it as unpredictable as you like.


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    #132
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So its ok to kill the animal as long as you shoot it?
    I often wonder if people realise how all the chicken fillets & steaks get into the plastic trays at the supermarket.

    You may be a vegetarian and if so, well done for being consistent in your beliefs, but this attitude is often trotted out by people who are happy to eat meat every day.


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    #133
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    You have someone go out before hand and lay down the scent. That way you can make it as unpredictable as you like.
    But then it is like going fishing and not catching anything, and without any chance of catching anything.


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    #134
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    taconnol wrote: »
    I often wonder if people realise how all the chicken fillets & steaks get into the plastic trays at the supermarket.

    You may be a vegetarian and if so, well done for being consistent in your beliefs, but this attitude is often trotted out by people who are happy to eat meat every day.

    He was only trying to annoy me.


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    #135
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    But then it is like going fishing and not catching anything, and without any chance of catching anything.

    Seems like a normal day fishing for me.


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    #136
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    But then it is like going fishing and not catching anything, and without any chance of catching anything.

    you're not fishing...


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    #137
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    taconnol wrote: »
    I often wonder if people realise how all the chicken fillets & steaks get into the plastic trays at the supermarket.

    You may be a vegetarian and if so, well done for being consistent in your beliefs, but this attitude is often trotted out by people who are happy to eat meat every day.
    I am not against hunting at all. I just find it hypocritical when people maintain that one form of hunting is wrong, yet it is ok to blast them with a gun.


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    #138
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    you're not fishing...
    Whats the difference? The fish gets a hook through its lip, is dragged out of the water to a place it cannot breath, it suffers greatly and gets extremely stressed before it dies or is released.
    Often the stag is hunted, suffers great stress and sometimes injury before it is captured and returned to its enclosure etc...

    So just because it is a fish it is ok?


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    #139
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Whats the difference? The fish gets a hook through its lip, is dragged out of the water to a place it cannot breath, it suffers greatly and gets extremely stressed before it dies or is released.
    Often the stag is hunted, suffers great stress and sometimes injury before it is captured and returned to its enclosure etc...

    So just because it is a fish it is ok?

    first of all, you can eat the fish, not so with the stag. fish can be caught for food.

    and I thought the point of the hunt was to get enjoyment out of riding the horse through the countryside? from what you're saying, if the stag isn't involved, there's little point in the hunt.

    ridiculous comparisons are ridiculous :rolleyes:


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    #140
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    first of all, you can eat the fish, not so with the stag. fish can be caught for food.

    and I thought the point of the hunt was to get enjoyment out of riding the horse through the countryside? from what you're saying, if the stag isn't involved, there's little point in the hunt.

    ridiculous comparisons are ridiculous :rolleyes:

    Someone has obviously never experienced the culinary delight of venison :rolleyes:


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    #141
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Vegeta wrote: »



    sounds like a minority to me...

    Well then people who are anti blood sport are in an even smaller minority by your logic


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    #142
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    No according to John Gormley, i quoted him for you earlier.

    And according to the new programme for goverment, i.e. what the goverment intends to do for the duration.

    And programmes for government are never revised or updated

    So if the Greens say they are going to do A, B and C and actually do A, B and C. What do they do then?

    Common sense would dictate they review their programme


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    #143
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Someone has obviously never experienced the culinary delight of venison :rolleyes:
    :confused: you said yourself that the deer goes back to an enclosure...
    Vegeta wrote: »
    Well then people who are anti blood sport are in an even smaller minority by your logic

    i have no idea how many people are against it. that's not the point. claiming that this is a practice backed by a most rural people and then throwing up a measly 100,000 names is untrue and only serves to skew public perception of deer hunting


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    #144
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Often the fish goes back in the water... so that is ok then?


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    #145
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Vegeta wrote: »
    And programmes for government are never revised or updated

    So if the Greens say they are going to do A, B and C and actually do A, B and C. What do they do then?

    Common sense would dictate they review their programme

    They did revise it, just before Nama. This programme brings them up to the next general election. I don't understand your second two points can you clear them up for me please?


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    #146
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Often the fish goes back in the water... so that is ok then?

    where did I say that?


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    #147
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    You didn't, I was asking a question.

    I don't think people should make exceptions for different types of hunting or whatever, it is hypocritical. Ban them all or ban nothing.


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    #148
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    They did revise it, just before Nama. This programme brings them up to the next general election. I don't understand your second two points can you clear them up for me please?

    They have just achieved one of their policy items in their programme for government from the Animal Welfare Section

    When they make their next programme it is logical to assume that it will be replaced with another item from their Animal Welfare Policy.

    Would you agree? Or do you think it more likely they will just ignore hunting forever more.

    The argument has been made that this is the thin end of the wedge.
    The Green party have denied this.
    If it is not the thin end of the wedge it implies the Green Party will never try to ban another form of hunting.
    This is in direct conflict with their Animal Welfare Policy


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    #149
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    i have no idea how many people are against it. that's not the point. claiming that this is a practice backed by a most rural people and then throwing up a measly 100,000 names is untrue and only serves to skew public perception of deer hunting

    No one has made that claim though.

    I just re-read page 3 and 4 (40 posts per page) and I cant see anyone say that.

    Numbers were quoted but no one claimed to represent most rural people.

    Deer hunting is very different from carted stag hunting. There is no ban on shooting deer.


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    #150
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    You didn't, I was asking a question.
    very well. if the fish is let go, it still suffers injures for nothing more than the enjoyment of the fisher. ethically, it's wrong. if the fish is killed and eaten, at least it's put to use and there is a point to it.[/QUOTE]
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I don't think people should make exceptions for different types of hunting or whatever, it is hypocritical. Ban them all or ban nothing.
    i agree


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    #151
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I am not against hunting at all. I just find it hypocritical when people maintain that one form of hunting is wrong, yet it is ok to blast them with a gun.

    There are different types of hunting with greater or lesser degrees of cruelty involved. Hunting live animals with dogs for fun is particularly cruel due to the lack of necessity. The banning of coursing and fox hunting as sports were not political possibilities and so the Greens went for the one that they could get through.


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