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FG, Lab other support Stag Hunting

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    #92
    round tower huntsman
    Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭round tower huntsman


    you asked what were the economic benifits, i replied with a sound answer then you moved the goal posts.


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    #93
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,673 ✭✭✭flutered


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Alcohol abuse and incest are part of rural life.
    proof please, that is one hell a statement, please substantiate that, in my area the poineer association, has roughly 100 members in a population of 900, incest i cannot say how many are involved as i do not have your information to hand.


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    #94
    round tower huntsman
    Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭round tower huntsman


    im away...dogs need tending;)


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    #95
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    round tower huntsman wrote: »
    no

    So why the distinction between one animal and not another?


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    #96
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    round tower huntsman wrote: »
    thats why we have seasons, so all young and off spring can be reared. hunters do more for the conservation of habitat and animals then most greenie types.

    Seasons. I see. Are you aware of how long all animals that you hunt are dependant on their mothers?


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    #97
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    round tower huntsman wrote: »
    you asked what were the economic benifits, i replied with a sound answer then you moved the goal posts.

    But surely if you list economic benefits as a reason for keeping blood-sports alive, then it is up for scrutinization. I don't see money as a valid argument for killing animals for fun. If that were the case, then it would also be a valid argument for those who make a living out of dog fighting.


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    #98
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭reprazant


    round tower huntsman wrote: »
    this bill caused more trouble for ff then nama ffs!

    Is this a joke?

    Something a effects 2% of the population has caused more problems then NAMA? Something the vast majority of the population were/are against?

    FF will be out in the next election and it will have nothing to do with this bill.


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    #99
    Wide Road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭Wide Road


    reprazant wrote: »
    Is this a joke?

    Something a effects 2% of the population has caused more problems then NAMA? Something the vast majority of the population were/are against?

    FF will be out in the next election and it will have nothing to do with this bill.

    So why did Labour go and vote against one of their few policies? Add in Alan Shatter of FG. If it's so unimportant why do it? Why the silence from the opposition?


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    #100
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭reprazant


    Wide Road wrote: »
    So why did Labour go and vote against one of their few policies? Add in Alan Shatter of FG. If it's so unimportant why do it? Why the silence from the opposition?

    Because they will vote on anything which will embarrass the government.


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    #101
    round tower huntsman
    Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭round tower huntsman


    reprazant wrote: »
    Is this a joke?

    Something a effects 2% of the population has caused more problems then NAMA? Something the vast majority of the population were/are against?

    FF will be out in the next election and it will have nothing to do with this bill.

    eh! i didnt say the government would fall over this. i said td's will loose/gain seats over this.
    that is exactly why labour voted against the bill, to gain lost ff rural votes.
    by the way how many td's spoke ff td's stirred trouble over nama?
    how many indo's split over nama?
    this was a crisis that should never have been. country's broke and in the shxt and we're talking bout banning a stag hunt(which actually provides jobs and revenue).


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    #102
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    round tower huntsman wrote: »
    this was a crisis that should never have been. country's broke and in the shxt and we're talking bout banning a stag hunt(which actually provides jobs and revenue).
    And by god if we could make money out of being cruel to as many animals as possible, that's exactly what we should do.


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    #103
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭reprazant


    I guess that even when the country is in the ****, some people think that chasing animals with a pack of dogs and guns is cowardly.

    I found it interesting that you think dog fighting is cruel but having a pack of dogs chase a hare or fox is not.

    Sure, if we legalise dog and cock fighting, there would be lots of money to be made.

    A blood sport is a blood sport, no?


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    #104
    round tower huntsman
    Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭round tower huntsman


    a dog fight is 2 evenly matched dogs in a pit. its a baiting session. that their usually wont be a winner til one is dead and that will take a while.
    hunting is chasing a fox in his natural enviroment, he knows every nook and cranny and if the dogs do catch him,its over in seconds. its not a pound for pound fight to the death. hounds kill foxes almost instantly.
    and unlike a fight,if the fox gets away he gets away clean and uninjured and a little wiser.


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    #105
    round tower huntsman
    Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭round tower huntsman


    also foxhunting provides essential fox control to farmers. but we're getting off topic.


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    #106
    round tower huntsman
    Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭round tower huntsman


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Seasons. I see. Are you aware of how long all animals that you hunt are dependant on their mothers?

    yes


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    #107
    Wide Road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭Wide Road


    reprazant wrote: »
    Because they will vote on anything which will embarrass the government.

    They lost one of their own and in turn ended up embarrassed themselves . They knew this themselves, so why do it?


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    #108
    round tower huntsman
    Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭round tower huntsman


    RISE got 60,000 signatures on paper with anothe 40,000 on email. thats a lot of voters.


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    #109
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Mattie McGrath does not fool anyone with a level of discernment on political affairs!


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    #110
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    round tower huntsman wrote: »
    also foxhunting provides essential fox control to farmers. but we're getting off topic.
    the farmer is probably worried about all the horses and hounds that are after making sh!t of his ditch and field.
    round tower huntsman wrote: »
    RISE got 60,000 signatures on paper with anothe 40,000 on email. thats a lot of voters.
    compared to the 3+ million that live in rural areas? you have what, 3%? not doing much better than the greens ;)


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    #111
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,673 ✭✭✭flutered


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    the farmer is probably worried about all the horses and hounds that are after making sh!t of his ditch and field.


    actually 2 weeks after a point to point is held there is no sign of hoofprints on the land.

    all hunts have employees to repair any damage done to ditches and fences on the day of the hunt, if this is not possible it is seen to on the following day.

    people need to educate themselves on these matters pefore posting gibberish.

    another case of i dont like it it has to go.


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    #112
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    taconnol wrote: »
    Do you have any evidence that this is the thin end of the wedge?

    Do you have any evidence that it is not?


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    #113
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Vegeta wrote: »
    Do you have any evidence that it is not?

    Yes, actually funny enough i do.
    Government wins Wildlife Bill vote

    MARIE O'HALLORAN AND MICHAEL O'REGAN

    The Government has won tonight’s Dáil vote banning stag hunting by 75-72 despite uncertainty over the intentions of a small number of Fianna Fáil deputies.

    Fianna Fáil Tipperary backbencher Mattie McGrath was the sole Government dissident in voting against the Bill to ban stag hunting as the legislation was passed this evening.

    Mr McGrath and party colleague Christy O’Sullivan of Cork South West were both absent from the Dáil chamber when the second stage or introductory debate on the legislation was voted on an hour earlier, but the Government won by 73 to 69.

    All other Fianna Fáil TDs, including Meath East backbencher Mary Wallace, voted for the legislation despite speaking out against it during the debate.

    Members of Rise! (Rural Ireland Says Enough) packed the gallery for the debate and watched as Fine Gael chief whip Paul Kehoe called for a walk-through vote, whereby TDs have to pass through the "Tá" and "Níl" lobbies, after the electronic vote. In the walk through vote Mr McGrath abstained and the result was 75 votes to 71.

    Mr Kehoe asked if the walk through superseded the electronic vote, but the issue was not clarified.

    Mr McGrath and Mr O’Sullivan were surrounded by party colleagues before the final vote was taken on the controversial Wildlife (Amendment) Act, in a bid to persuade them to vote with the Government.

    Mr O’Sullivan did vote for the legislation, but Mr McGrath voted against and loses the party whip and is no longer a member of the parliamentary party.

    During the committee stage Minister for the Environment John Gormley again criticised the Labour party’s opposition to the Bill, accusing them of a U-turn and hypocrisy. He pointed to the absence of Dublin North East Labour TD Tommy Broughan, who opposes bloodsports, for the second stage vote. Mr Broughan did not attend later for the final vote.

    Fianna Fáil Westmeath TD Mary O’Rourke said that this Bill and the dog breeding legislation should be an end to the Minister’s “rambling in rural Ireland”.

    Yesterday, Mr Gormley, who brought forward the Bill, expressed confidence it would be passed. “I believe at this stage that Fianna Fáil colleagues are committed to implement the Programme for Government. They know that I am a reasonable person and this is not the thin end of the wedge.”

    In a statement tonight, Labour chief whip Emmet Stagg said he had written to Mr Broughan informing the TD of the removal of the party whip after his decision to absent himself from the two Dáil votes.

    In his letter Mr Stagg said: "I wish also to put on record that you did not inform me of your intentions and that I made contact with you between the two votes referred to and instructed you to attend for the vote at 7.00pm. You failed to do so."

    Mr Stagg goes on to tell Mr Broughan that when the TD abstained on the Criminal Justice Bill last year, "the party leader made it clear to you that any repetition would result in the automatic removal of the whip from you".


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    #114
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    So they are contradicting themselves then or else the people who made those statements need to consult with their Animal Welfare Policy Group

    From the Green's website
    7.1 When in government, the Green Party will introduce legislation to end blood sports.


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    #115
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    flutered wrote: »
    another case of i dont like it it has to go.

    don't put words in my mouth. Stag hunting was banned by the democratic process, like it or lump it. i have a problem with a minuscule minority claiming to representative of rural values.


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    #116
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Vegeta wrote: »
    So they are contradicting themselves then or else the people who made those statements need to consult with their Animal Welfare Policy Group

    From the Green's website

    No that is what they wanted to do, but they realize that they cant. So they changed their policy but not their principles. Unlike some other parties.

    That was never in the new programme for goverment.


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    #117
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Vegeta wrote: »
    So they are contradicting themselves then or else the people who made those statements need to consult with their Animal Welfare Policy Group

    From the Green's website

    As im sure you are aware that document you are quoting is 3weeks shy of 5yrs old.
    Monday 25 July 2005


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    #118
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    flutered wrote: »

    don't put words in my mouth. Stag hunting was banned by the democratic process, like it or lump it. i have a problem with a minuscule minority claiming to representative of rural values.

    How do you know it's a minority? Of people who actually care I don't think it is a minority.

    Well when the anti-blood sport people march there is 100 of them. There were 5000-6000 in the RISE ones

    That alone is indicative of the support. I am not saying that RISE speaks for everyone in a rural place but I think you are underestimating the number of people passionate enough to actually do something about this, like vote or lobby for votes against anyone who threatens their interests.

    I think the people actively involved in fieldsports greatly outnumber active anti protesters. There are a hell of a lot of people in rural Ireland who don't prioritise fieldsports and they are the majority. I would not like to make any judgements on their position

    Politicians care only about getting re-elected. The NARGC alone has 28,000 members who will and have instructed their members to challenge FF over this.

    That is a nice chunk of votes to worry about, could mean a few seats at least.

    As an example of what can be done, a few years ago it was proposed to increase the firearms license fees. Firearms owners who are not exactly ten a penny, e-mailed and called their local FF TDs and had the decision over turned.


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    #119
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    If fox hunting was banned how would the population be controlled?


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    #120
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    No that is what they wanted to do, but they realize that they cant. So they changed their policy but not their principles. Unlike some other parties.

    That was never in the new programme for goverment.

    According to you


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    #121
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    If fox hunting was banned how would the population be controlled?

    Fox hunting will not be banned, you are scare mongering.


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