FG, Lab other support Stag Hunting

jimmycrackcorm · 29-06-2010 8:37pm #1

I wonder about the pattern of the opposition voting against the government no matter what. It doesn't make sense to me to vote against a bill purely and seemingly to spite the government. Had more of the FF TD's abstained or voted against the bill then it would have failed and effectively FG, Labour and the rest would be supporting Stag hunting. I'm assuming that that's not their actual position.

Even if the government had failed due to it's own TDs, it still would not have been something to bring it down so what's the point. Is it just some sort of game?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0629/hunting.html

Mal-Adjusted · 30-06-2010 11:49am

a guy on the radio from RISE said that F.G. would rescind the stag hunting bill if and when they got into the next government.

personally, I really wish RISE would stop claiming to represent the wishes of all of rural Ireland :mad:

Cookie_Monster · 30-06-2010 12:16pm

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

a guy on the radio from RISE said that F.G. would rescind the stag hunting bill if and when they got into the next government.

lost what little chance of getting my vote so.

I really do think they are just voting against the government for the sake of it. Thankfully the bill got through anyway

P. Breathnach · 30-06-2010 12:23pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

lost what little chance of getting my vote so....

Be fair: ask FG if they would try to rescind the act (it will be an act whenever FG get into power) rather than take the word of a campaigner.

I was disappointed that opposition parties opposed the bill. They were playing political games rather than addressing the issue.

[I heard no report of what SF did. I presume they also came out in favour of using a pack of dogs to hunt down a farm animal.]

Wide Road · 30-06-2010 12:26pm

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

a guy on the radio from RISE said that F.G. would rescind the stag hunting bill if and when they got into the next government.

personally, I really wish RISE would stop claiming to represent the wishes of all of rural Ireland :mad:

If the guy from RISE is correct (which I doubt) will FG include the stag hunting bill in the programme for govt?

Mal-Adjusted · 30-06-2010 12:36pm

Wide Road wrote: »

If the guy from RISE is correct (which I doubt) will FG include the stag hunting bill in the programme for govt?

don't know, but i hope it's not true

Sulmac · 30-06-2010 12:37pm

Did Alan Shatter (former president of the Irish Council Against Blood Sports) vote against the bill? Very hypocritical of him if he did...

ANXIOUS · 30-06-2010 12:50pm

Sulmac wrote: »

Did Alan Shatter (former president of the Irish Council Against Blood Sports) vote for the bill? Very hypocritical of him if he did...

Im trying to get in touch with his office to find out, but it hasnt been reported anwhere that he voted for the bill. What would be unbelivable hypocritical of him would be the fact iirc he lost the party whip before for voting to ban hare coursing.

Wide Road · 30-06-2010 1:00pm

Sulmac wrote: »

Did Alan Shatter (former president of the Irish Council Against Blood Sports) vote for the bill? Very hypocritical of him if he did...

He must have voted against the bill. Again, why all the silence from Alan? I bet Liam Byrne can help clear this up for us. Also I bet someone here can get in contact with Liam Cahill of RISE to find out about the FG person saying they would overturn the stag hunting bill if in the next govt. I think he has a GAA forum. Someone might know him or use his site.

round tower huntsman · 30-06-2010 1:04pm

the rise campaign has benn a great success in focusing the minds of all who support hunting,shooting,fishing all fieldsports.
they have shown all the political parties that fieldsports voters can cost you or win you votes.
if labour are serious about winning rural seats then they'll have to except that hunting and coursing are part of rural life and play a positve role both socially and economicly to villages and towns around ireland.
the irony of all this is. that by forcing this ban on the one solitry stag hunt in ireland,gormley has nearly collapsed the government. imagine if he tried to ban fox hunting...there's hundreds of mounted/foot and beagle packs around ireland.
he has also shown all other politcal parties that hunting is such a hot potato that its better left alone.
gormley has caused so much shxt with this he'll have to grant major concessions on the dog breeding bill now,and that was of more concern to hunters around the country anyway.
hunting will have a brighter future now thanks to john gormley.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-06-2010 1:12pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

the rise campaign has benn a great success in focusing the minds of all who support hunting,shooting,fishing all fieldsports.
they have shown all the political parties that fieldsports voters can cost you or win you votes.
if labour are serious about winning rural seats then they'll have to except that hunting and coursing are part of rural life and play a positve role both socially and economicly to villages and towns around ireland.
the irony of all this is. that by forcing this ban on the one solitry stag hunt in ireland,gormley has nearly collapsed the government. imagine if he tried to ban fox hunting...there's hundreds of mounted/foot and beagle packs around ireland.
he has also shown all other politcal parties that hunting is such a hot potato that its better left alone.
gormley has caused so much shxt with this he'll have to grant major concessions on the dog breeding bill now,and that was of more concern to hunters around the country anyway.
hunting will have a brighter future now thanks to john gormley.

Alcohol abuse and incest are part of rural life. It doesn't mean its acceptible or should be encouraged. Which is why every political party is opposed to it on paper.

ANXIOUS · 30-06-2010 1:16pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

the rise campaign has benn a great success in focusing the minds of all who support hunting,shooting,fishing all fieldsports.
they have shown all the political parties that fieldsports voters can cost you or win you votes.
if labour are serious about winning rural seats then they'll have to except that hunting and coursing are part of rural life and play a positve role both socially and economicly to villages and towns around ireland.
the irony of all this is. that by forcing this ban on the one solitry stag hunt in ireland,gormley has nearly collapsed the government. imagine if he tried to ban fox hunting...there's hundreds of mounted/foot and beagle packs around ireland.
he has also shown all other politcal parties that hunting is such a hot potato that its better left alone.
gormley has caused so much shxt with this he'll have to grant major concessions on the dog breeding bill now,and that was of more concern to hunters around the country anyway.
hunting will have a brighter future now thanks to john gormley.

That spam is hilarious, it hasnt cost anybody and votes yet and when the next general election comes around id be surprised if it cost any politican circa 3%. What stag hunters dont seem to realize is that they are a very small minority in this country. But the only reason we hear about it is because you are very well funded.

You know as well as i do, country people have not and will not ever vote for labour like they've never voted for the greens. Also im sure your intelligent enough to realize that labour are playing the flip flop card on every decisive issue.

Youve another thing coming if you think gormley will grant major concessions on the breeding bill. He knows he is goosed at the next election anyway. The green party at this stage will awalk if the bills they dont want go through. If he does manage to pass more bills like this he will have succeded in implementing a green tint on the life of the goverment. Of which i feel his party will be happy with.

How did it nearly collapse a goverment? One ff td abstained from the vote????

round tower huntsman · 30-06-2010 1:16pm

well the greens have made this a political issue. ff and fg rural td's understand how this can cost or win votes. labour and sinn fein are learning it too.
the greens will be extinct after the next election, fact. no other political party will touch this subject again...all thanks to gormley.
i'll let him have his ward union scalp, he's ensured a long bright future for the rest of the hunting family.

Wide Road · 30-06-2010 1:16pm

What are the fieldsports that RISE are behind?

round tower huntsman · 30-06-2010 1:19pm

ANXIOUS wrote: »

That spam is hilarious, it hasnt cost anybody and votes yet and when the next general election comes around id be surprised if it cost any politican circa 3%. What stag hunters dont seem to realize is that they are a very small minority in this country. But the only reason we hear about it is because you are very well funded.

You know as well as i do, country people have not and will not ever vote for labour like they've never voted for the greens. Also im sure your intelligent enough to realize that labour are playing the flip flop card on every decisive issue.

Youve another thing coming if you think gormley will grant major concessions on the breeding bill. He knows he is goosed at the next election anyway. The green party at this stage will awalk if the bills they dont want go through. If he does manage to pass more bills like this he will have succeded in implementing a green tint on the life of the goverment. Of which i feel his party will be happy with.

How did it nearly collapse a goverment? One ff td abstained from the vote????

it lost support of 4 td's. it was the closest vote in yrs. it caused more shxt then nama. i'll bet my last hound that it'll be a long long time before any party tries to push something like this again.

Het-Field · 30-06-2010 1:22pm

This vote has disgusted me. It was a series of U-Turns from all sides of the political divide

ANXIOUS · 30-06-2010 1:22pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

it lost support of 4 td's. it was the closest vote in yrs. it caused more shxt then nama. i'll bet my last hound that it'll be a long long time before any party tries to push something like this again.

I love how thats the only bit you reply to. What 4 ff tds, did it lose? Can you also name the tds that it gained?

round tower huntsman · 30-06-2010 1:22pm

Wide Road wrote: »

What are the fieldsports that RISE are behind?

check their website. they have support of
hai
nargc
coursing clubs
falcanry clubs
list is quite long. wish i could cut and paste but i can. maybe you can visit their site and post a list of their supporters.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-06-2010 1:22pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

well the greens have made this a political issue. ff and fg rural td's understand how this can cost or win votes. labour and sinn fein are learning it too.
the greens will be extinct after the next election, fact. no other political party will touch this subject again...all thanks to gormley.
i'll let him have his ward union scalp, he's ensured a long bright future for the rest of the hunting family.

The greens have made hunting a political issue? Well I never.... :rolleyes:

You seem to grossly overestimate your own importance here. This vote passed, 1 FF TD objected and this is the start of dragging your bogmen and your barbaric practices into the 20th, never mind the 21st century.

The idea that you got some form of victory last night is the spin of desperation.

ANXIOUS · 30-06-2010 1:23pm

Het-Field wrote: »

This vote has disgusted me. It was a series of U-Turns from all sides of the political divide

I think ff has remained united on it to the biggest extent. However i am shocked at labour and possibly alan shatter.

average_runner · 30-06-2010 1:24pm

Maybe we should Hunt labour, Sinn Fein and FG to see how they feel what its like with dogs chasing them.

That be a good sport:D

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-06-2010 1:25pm

ANXIOUS wrote: »

I think ff has remained united on it to the biggest extent. However i am shocked at labour and possibly alan shatter.

And the recriminations will happen and you can be sure the Greens will get their way on the rest of this barbarism.

Very, very silly to think they won last night. All they have done was concentrate the minds of the whips.

ANXIOUS · 30-06-2010 1:25pm

average_runner wrote: »

Maybe we should Hunt labour, Sinn Fein and FG to see how they feel what its like with dogs chasing them.

That be a good sport:D

Did you not hear the fg whip yesterday " looks like the only hunting going on here will be the hunting of finna fail and green party tds" Dunce

ANXIOUS · 30-06-2010 1:26pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And the recriminations will happen and you can be sure the Greens will get their way on the rest of this barbarism.

Very, very silly to think they won last night. All they have done was concentrate the minds of the whips.

How do you mean? Lets just get this straight one stag hunt has been banned.

round tower huntsman · 30-06-2010 1:35pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

The greens have made hunting a political issue? Well I never.... :rolleyes:

You seem to grossly overestimate your own importance here. This vote passed, 1 FF TD objected and this is the start of dragging your bogmen and your barbaric practices into the 20th, never mind the 21st century.

The idea that you got some form of victory last night is the spin of desperation.

the greens are gone, who'll go after hunting now?

P. Breathnach · 30-06-2010 1:37pm

ANXIOUS wrote: »

How do you mean? Lets just get this straight one stag hunt has been banned.

Let's get it even more straight: one form of hunting has been banned. It happens that there was only one hunt that indulged in this activity. It is not now open for some group to set up a similar hunt in Galway or Waterford or somewhere else.

lazygal · 30-06-2010 1:42pm

The official report of the Dáil shows that Shatter voted against the Bill, FYI!

round tower huntsman · 30-06-2010 1:42pm

ANXIOUS wrote: »

I love how thats the only bit you reply to. What 4 ff tds, did it lose? Can you also name the tds that it gained?

this bill caused more trouble for ff then nama ffs!
ff backbenchers will shaft gormley every chance they get now.
o rourke stood up and told him his ramblings in the countryside must end now.
make no mistake the ripples of this will be felt for a while yet.

ANXIOUS · 30-06-2010 1:44pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

the greens are gone, who'll go after hunting now?

Labour, theyve been against it for the i dont know how long. Can you guess who made this statement about hare coursing??

I unfortunately cannot attend this rally. But on behalf of myself and the Labour Party I want to express my full and unequivocal support for the banning of hare coursing in Ireland and throughout the European Community.

It is a travesty that hare coursing is referred to as “a sport”. It is a sadistic, cruel and barbarous activity and it is a discredit to our society that such activities remain legal. The vast majority of Irish people want this activity banned and the Labour Party commits itself to working with any other political party in Dail Eireann to bring about an end to hare coursing and other so-called field sports.

It is imperative that the Irish Council Against Blood Sports continue their campaign and that people highlight in the media the barbarity of this activity. Only through a campaign of protest can we bring enough pressure on the Government and political parties to ban hare coursing.

I wish this and future protests every possible success. Again, on behalf of the Labour Party, we will assist this campaign in every way possible.

End of Statement

Mal-Adjusted · 30-06-2010 1:49pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

this is the start of dragging your bogmen and your barbaric practices into the 20th, never mind the 21st century.

Don't be fooled into thinking that RISE are in any way indicative of rural views. From the get go, they've tried to spin this into a city/country divide. Feckall people really take part in hunting compared to the people who don't. I dislike this government, but credit where credit is due...I only wist they could have gotten rid of fox hunting too.

round tower huntsman · 30-06-2010 1:51pm

well i feel that will change now. one of the most vocal supporters of hunting during the debate was a labour td, pendergast i think was his name.
labour want rural seats???then they must accept rural ways.
and they are. rise has done alot in this regard. they've shown labour that hunters and shooters arent some sort of rural elite but ordinary working class country folk.
they voted against the bill!!

round tower huntsman · 30-06-2010 1:54pm

usually when labour gains its cos ff looses. if labour want to gain ff votes that will be lost over their sell out to the greens then they'll have to soften their stance on rural sports.

ANXIOUS · 30-06-2010 1:56pm

lazygal wrote: »

The official report of the Dáil shows that Shatter voted against the Bill, FYI!

That is incredible, has he lost balls since the last vote on it.

ANXIOUS · 30-06-2010 1:57pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

well i feel that will change now. one of the most vocal supporters of hunting during the debate was a labour td, pendergast i think was his name.
labour want rural seats???then they must accept rural ways.
and they are. rise has done alot in this regard. they've shown labour that hunters and shooters arent some sort of rural elite but ordinary working class country folk.
they voted against the bill!!

Have you ever gone stag hunting?

round tower huntsman · 30-06-2010 2:01pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

The greens have made hunting a political issue? Well I never.... :rolleyes:

You seem to grossly overestimate your own importance here. This vote passed, 1 FF TD objected and this is the start of dragging your bogmen and your barbaric practices into the 20th, never mind the 21st century.

The idea that you got some form of victory last night is the spin of desperation.

its not spin. i would rather have won the day but we didnt. having said that rise has had a victory of sorts.
gormley will have to grant major concessions on the dog breeding bill. that was more important to most hunters inc myself(never hunted on a horse or with the ward in my life). he wont get any support to go near any more fieldsports. i cant see any other party going near hunting again for a long time.
ff wont.
fg wont
sinn fein recently passed a motion at thier ard eis voicing support for all rural sports.
the greens will soon be extinct.
labour are courting rural ff votes so they too are out.
socialist party might,unfortunately cos i often voted for clare daly but wont again, they'll never get in and even if they did as partners it'll be way down their list of priorities.
so hunting is safe for a long time to come.

BlaasForRafa · 30-06-2010 2:01pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Alcohol abuse and incest are part of rural life. It doesn't mean its acceptible or should be encouraged. Which is why every political party is opposed to it on paper.

Alcohol abuse and incest are a part of urban life too, are you just trying to say that rural people should f**k off because they're banjo-playing inbreds or something?

Grumpypants · 30-06-2010 2:01pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

the rise campaign has benn a great success in focusing the minds of all who support hunting,shooting,fishing all fieldsports.
they have shown all the political parties that fieldsports voters can cost you or win you votes.
if labour are serious about winning rural seats then they'll have to except that hunting and coursing are part of rural life and play a positve role both socially and economicly to villages and towns around ireland.
the irony of all this is. that by forcing this ban on the one solitry stag hunt in ireland,gormley has nearly collapsed the government. imagine if he tried to ban fox hunting...there's hundreds of mounted/foot and beagle packs around ireland.
he has also shown all other politcal parties that hunting is such a hot potato that its better left alone.
gormley has caused so much shxt with this he'll have to grant major concessions on the dog breeding bill now,and that was of more concern to hunters around the country anyway.
hunting will have a brighter future now thanks to john gormley.

Im against blood sports not hunting there is a massive difference. Hunting involves skill its man v animal in a fair battle the person has to track, out smart and kill the animal. The animal has its natural defence mechaisim in place and its natural wild instints. Ie a fair fight.

No stretch of the imagination could consider taking a domesticated animal, cutting off its method of self defence, using pack dogs to track it and horses that are faster than the stag, to be considered hunting.

People hunt for food or to control a pest problem not just to get kicks out of torturing animals.

There is a place in america where they hand rear deer they ring a bell to feed them so the deer understand the bell means food. When they go "hunting" it involves driving out in a golf cart ringing a bell so the deer who was reared with no fear of people comes to the food they sit in the cart 10 feet away and shoot the deer and they consider this hunting.

This bill has nothing to do with fishing or shooting or any other field sports. This is about blood sports where idiots get a kick out of torturing animals.

lazygal · 30-06-2010 2:02pm

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Have you ever went stag hunting?

It is "Have you ever gone stag hunting". Do they not teach grammer down the country or were you out killing animals for kicks that day?

Wide Road · 30-06-2010 2:02pm

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Labour, theyve been against it for the i dont know how long. Can you guess who made this statement about hare coursing??

lazygal wrote: »

The official report of the Dáil shows that Shatter voted against the Bill, FYI!

Where does that leave him now? Again, why the silence from him and all the FG supporters around here. Why?

round tower huntsman · 30-06-2010 2:03pm

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Have you ever went stag hunting?

no. never hunted on horse.
i hunt foot harriers. with trencher fed packs. ordinary working class men who keep a hound or 3 and meet of a sunday for a days hunting.
no west brit pomp, no fancy landrovers etc...just proud irish men out enjoying their countryside and their hounds,

ANXIOUS · 30-06-2010 2:05pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

its not spin. i would rather have won the day but we didnt. having said that rise has had a victory of sorts.
gormley will have to grant major concessions on the dog breeding bill. that was more important to most hunters inc myself(never hunted on a horse or with the ward in my life). he wont get any support to go near any more fieldsports. i cant see any other party going near hunting again for a long time.
ff wont.
fg wont
sinn fein recently passed a motion at thier ard eis voicing support for all rural sports.
the greens will soon be extinct.
labour are courting rural ff votes so they too are out.
socialist party might,unfortunately cos i often voted for clare daly but wont again, they'll never get in and even if they did as partners it'll be way down their list of priorities.
so hunting is safe for a long time to come.

Hunting was never going to be affected, have you read the programme for goverment? They are just going through it and it doesnt mention anything about fox hunting, hares or fishing.

Apparently you are from north county dublin, would you not make the short trip and meet john gormley and ask him his future plans.

ANXIOUS · 30-06-2010 2:06pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

no. never hunted on horse.
i hunt foot harriers. with trencher fed packs. ordinary working class men who keep a hound or 3 and meet of a sunday for a days hunting.
no west brit pomp, no fancy landrovers etc...just proud irish men out enjoying their countryside and their hounds,

So the ban yesterday wont, touch your sport at all?

round tower huntsman · 30-06-2010 2:08pm

no it wont effect me. but an attack on one form of hunting is an attack on all. thats why rise has been so successfull. it has support from every fieldsport org in the country.

Wide Road · 30-06-2010 2:10pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

no. never hunted on horse.
i hunt foot harriers. with trencher fed packs. ordinary working class men who keep a hound or 3 and meet of a sunday for a days hunting.
no west brit pomp, no fancy landrovers etc...just proud irish men out enjoying their countryside and their hounds,

What is "west Brit pomp"?

Grumpypants · 30-06-2010 2:11pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

no. never hunted on horse.
i hunt foot harriers. with trencher fed packs. ordinary working class men who keep a hound or 3 and meet of a sunday for a days hunting.
no west brit pomp, no fancy landrovers etc...just proud irish men out enjoying their countryside and their hounds,

And you understand the difference between that and "hunting" a large domesticated animal that will run into school yards and peoples gardens.

Would you set your dogs on a cow in a farmers field ? No so why do it to a Stag.

round tower huntsman · 30-06-2010 2:11pm

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Hunting was never going to be affected, have you read the programme for goverment? They are just going through it and it doesnt mention anything about fox hunting, hares or fishing.

Apparently you are from north county dublin, would you not make the short trip and meet john gormley and ask him his future plans.

nonsense. gormley and the greens are on record as saying they want to see an end to all animal-animal hunting. that means ferreting,ratting,hawking hunting,coursing etc.......

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-06-2010 2:11pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Alcohol abuse and incest are a part of urban life too, are you just trying to say that rural people should f**k off because they're banjo-playing inbreds or something?

No, I am saying that just because something happens in community x is not a good enough reason to not ban it when the overwhelming majority of the country are opposed to it on moral grounds.

round tower huntsman · 30-06-2010 2:13pm

Wide Road wrote: »

What is "west Brit pomp"?

looking like something from the irsih rm. not my scene. but if they want to dress up like that leave em at it. end of the day they're out following hounds same as me. just im on foot and they're on a horse.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-06-2010 2:13pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

nonsense. gormley and the greens are on record as saying they want to see an end to all animal-animal hunting. that means ferreting,ratting,hawking hunting,coursing etc.......

Good for them. Thats what greens do and i would suggest they have the support of 90% of the Irish population.

You are a tiny, but vocal, minority and the idea that you are the issue that will swing an election is laughable.

Grumpypants · 30-06-2010 2:13pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

nonsense. gormley and the greens are on record as saying they want to see an end to all animal-animal hunting. that means ferreting,ratting,hawking hunting,coursing etc.......

You do understand the difference between the bill in question and something someone said once opon a time. :rolleyes:

Wide Road · 30-06-2010 2:14pm

round tower huntsman wrote: »

nonsense. gormley and the greens are on record as saying they want to see an end to all animal-animal hunting. that means ferreting,ratting,hawking hunting,coursing etc.......

What about Labours Policy?

FG, Lab other support Stag Hunting

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