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Cad é an Gaeilge atá ar...

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    #62
    gaiscioch
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭gaiscioch


    AnLonDubh wrote: »
    You are right about the loss of medial gh/dh Dubhthach, but Aodhán is an exception to this process in Connacht, becoming Aodán, with the medial gh/dh undergoing delenition rather than elision.

    Interesting. Would the modern spelling of this 'Aodán' pronunciation be 'Aodhán', as in the meaning 'little fire/flame'? I note Kerry's Aodhán Mac Gearailt is actually spelt Aodán.


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    #63
    AnLonDubh
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭AnLonDubh


    gaiscioch wrote: »
    Interesting. Would the modern spelling of this 'Aodán' pronunciation be 'Aodhán', as in the meaning 'little fire/flame'?
    It's either still spelt Aodhán, which is the original form, or updated to Aodán. Aodhán meaning "Little Aéd" with Aéd being the name of Aéd of Killaire.

    The pronunciation Aogán in Munster resulted from delenition of Aodhán and as a natural descendent of the Old Irish name Áeducán, both resulted in Aogán.


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    #64
    gaiscioch
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭gaiscioch


    AnLonDubh wrote: »
    It's either still spelt Aodhán, which is the original form, or updated to Aodán. Aodhán meaning "Little Aéd" with Aéd being the name of Aéd of Killaire.

    The pronunciation Aogán in Munster resulted from delenition of Aodhán and as a natural descendent of the Old Irish name Áeducán, both resulted in Aogán.


    Ah, thanks. I had assumed, wrongly it seems, that Aodán was the original, having a buailte over the 'd' and thus became Aodhán in the modern caighdeán.


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    #65
    AnLonDubh
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭AnLonDubh


    gaiscioch wrote: »
    Ah, thanks. I had assumed, wrongly it seems, that Aodán was the original, having a buailte over the 'd' and thus became Aodhán in the modern caighdeán.
    You may be interested to know that the buailte and "h" have both always existed as orthographic conventions to mark lenition, the "h" is found in Old Irish manuscripts dating to the 8th century.

    Essentially different Bardic schools had different orthographic conventions, some used the buailte and others the "h". The Buailte had become more common by around 1400, but not drastically so.


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    #66
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    AnLonDubh wrote: »
    It's either still spelt Aodhán, which is the original form, or updated to Aodán. Aodhán meaning "Little Aéd" with Aéd being the name of Aéd of Killaire.

    Aodh derives from old Irish Áed which in turn derives from proto-Celtic *aidu-, it's a pre-christian name.


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    #67
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Regarding buailte versus "h" in Old Irish, I could be wrong on this but general case was something like this:

    c -> ch
    t -> th (th was prononunced like the th in English -- sound lost by about 1200)
    p -> ph

    f -> ḟ
    s -> ṡ

    The rest weren't differentiated though they were subject to lenition. So for example Áedán could have been written Áedhán or Áeḋán (as d underwent lenition) but it wasn't. Obviously later as the names are transcribed (due to changes of written standard etc.) then lenition character would be written (thence Aodhán -- leaving aside vernacular pronunciation forms)


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    #68
    AnLonDubh
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭AnLonDubh


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Aodh derives from old Irish Áed which in turn derives from proto-Celtic *aidu-, it's a pre-christian name.
    In Proto-Celtic did it mean "Fire" (the supposed etymology)?
    Regarding buailte versus "h" in Old Irish, I could be wrong on this but general case was something like this:
    Yes, that is the status in Old Irish manuscripts. With the creation of the Bardic schools in 1200 competing schools began to us either the buailte or "h" entirely. There was an actual geographic division on this. I'll have to check my books and get back to you later as I don't entirely trust my memory on what that geographic division was.


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    #69
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    AnLonDubh wrote: »
    In Proto-Celtic did it mean "Fire" (the supposed etymology)?

    Yes that's my understanding of it. It shows up in following "English Proto-Celtic wordlist"
    http://www.wales.ac.uk/Resources/Documents/Research/CelticLanguages/EnglishProtoCelticWordlist.pdf
    AnLonDubh wrote: »
    Yes, that is the status in Old Irish manuscripts. With the creation of the Bardic schools in 1200 competing schools began to us either the buailte or "h" entirely. There was an actual geographic division on this. I'll have to check my books and get back to you later as I don't entirely trust my memory on what that geographic division was.

    As far as I know the Scots never took to the buailte so it wouldn't surprise me if you are looking at an "East/West" division. (some have said that the division in Goidelic languages is really and "east/west" division anyways)


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    #70
    gaiscioch
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭gaiscioch


    If you're talking about something you do habitually/a hobby... Is aoibhinn/Is breá/Is maith liom a bheith ag rith/ag snámh/ag siúil or can you leave out the "a bheith" in that case?

    When, if at all, is it correct to simply say Is maith liom ag rith/ag snámh/activity? (and is it the fact it's an activity rather than just a habit of some sort that necessitates 'a bheith' - after all "Is maith liom sceallóga" is correct even though you habitually like them)


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    #71
    gaiscioch
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭gaiscioch


    With time, is it ever correct to say "ag a seacht a chlog" etc, as opposed to "ar a seacht a chlog" etc? Is "ag a" more common in one dialect?


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    #72
    purplecow1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,877 ✭✭✭purplecow1977


    "How do you say.....?
    Conas a deireann tú nó conas a deir tú?

    "I used to..... (Do something)


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    #73
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    purplecow1977 wrote: »
    "How do you say.....?
    Conas a deireann tú nó conas a deir tú?

    "I used to..... (Do something)

    Úsáidtear an Aimsir Ghnáthchaite chun é sin a dhéanamh. Foirm den bhriathar atá i gceist.

    Mar shampla:

    chaithinn
    chaiteá
    chaitheadh sé/sí
    chaithimis
    chaitheadh sibh
    chaithidís
    (Sb.) chaití

    cheannaínn
    cheannaíteá
    cheannaíodh sé/sí
    cheannaímis
    cheannaíodh sibh
    cheannaídís
    (Sb.) cheannaítí


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    #74
    purplecow1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,877 ✭✭✭purplecow1977


    Go raibh maith agat. Níl mé familiar leis an gnáthchaite ar chór ar bith (an raibh mé ina chodladh/coma sa choláiste?!?!?) ach iarann na daltaí uaireanta faoin 'used to'. Anois tá an freagra agam, go raibh míle.

    Agus mo cheist eile?
    Conas a deireann tú/Conas a deir tú nó should I just stick with 'Cad é an Gaeilge atá ar....'?


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    #75
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    purplecow1977 wrote: »
    Go raibh maith agat. Níl mé familiar leis an gnáthchaite ar chór ar bith (an raibh mé ina chodladh/coma sa choláiste?!?!?) ach iarann na daltaí uaireanta faoin 'used to'. Anois tá an freagra agam, go raibh míle.

    Braitheann sé ar an gcoláiste agus ar an múinteoir, is dócha!
    Agus mo cheist eile?
    Conas a deireann tú/Conas a deir tú nó should I just stick with 'Cad é an Gaeilge atá ar....'?

    Conas a deirfeá ___ as Gaeilge?
    Cén Ghaeilge atá ar ___?
    Cad é an Ghaeilge atá ar ___?


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    #76
    purplecow1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,877 ✭✭✭purplecow1977


    Ó mo Dhia, thug mé an phrása 'Cad a deireann tú ___ as Gaeilge?' agus 'Conas a litríonn tú ___' do na daltaí - an bhfuil siad mícheart? :-(


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    #77
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    purplecow1977 wrote: »
    Ó mo Dhia, thug mé an phrása 'Cad a deireann tú ___ as Gaeilge?' agus 'Conas a litríonn tú ___' do na daltaí - an bhfuil siad mícheart? :-(

    "Conas a deir tú___?" would be fine, but not "cad".

    "Conas a litríonn tú?" means "how do you spell?" A handy phrase to have, but not the best one for this kind of a question.


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    #78
    purplecow1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,877 ✭✭✭purplecow1977


    An File wrote: »
    "Conas a deir tú___?" would be fine, but not "cad".

    "Conas a litríonn tú?" means "how do you spell?" A handy phrase to have, but not the best one for this kind of a question.

    Conas a deireann tú, is this wrong? I wanted 'How do you say' so thought it would be Aimsir L?

    Conas a litríonn tú I get them to use also, even during Béarla, chun Gaeilge neamhfhoirmiúil a spreagadh! (Is múinteoir bunscoile mé!)


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    #79
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    purplecow1977 wrote: »
    Conas a deireann tú, is this wrong? I wanted 'How do you say' so thought it would be Aimsir L?

    I was taught that "deir" is the most correct way of putting the verb 'Abair' into the Aimsir Láithreach. You'd often see it with "eann" at the end as well, to be fair.


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    #80
    An gal gréine
    Registered Users Posts: 941 ✭✭✭An gal gréine


    purplecow1977 wrote: »
    "How do you say.....?
    Conas a deireann tú nó conas a deir tú?

    "I used to..... (Do something)

    I used to smoke....ba ghnáth liom tobac a chaitheamh.


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    #81
    purplecow1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,877 ✭✭✭purplecow1977


    An gal gréine wrote: »
    I used to smoke....ba ghnáth liom tobac a chaitheamh.

    I actually think the gnáthchaite example given earlier would be easier for primary children to say. They find it hard to use the 'a _____' at ends of sentences.


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    #82
    AnLonDubh
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭AnLonDubh


    An gal gréine wrote: »
    I used to smoke....ba ghnáth liom tobac a chaitheamh.
    Baineann na hUltaigh úsáid as "Ba ghnath liom..." agus an ainm bhriathra chun an gnáthchaite a chur in iúl, ach bíonn difear idir "ba ghnáth liom é a dhéanamh" agus "dheininn é" i gCúige Mumhan.


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    #83
    An gal gréine
    Registered Users Posts: 941 ✭✭✭An gal gréine


    AnLonDubh wrote: »
    Baineann na hUltaigh úsáid as "Ba ghnath liom..." agus an ainm bhriathra chun an gnáthchaite a chur in iúl, ach bíonn difear idir "ba ghnáth liom é a dhéanamh" agus "dheininn é" i gCúige Mumhan.

    Tosaíonn an dán 'Cúirt an mheán-oíche' le
    Ba ghnáth liom siúil le ciumhas na habhann....
    Caidé 'bhí i gceist ag an Muimhneach sin, Merriman?


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    #84
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    An gal gréine wrote: »
    Tosaíonn an dán 'Cúirt an mheán-oíche' le
    Ba ghnáth liom siúil le ciumhas na habhann....
    Caidé 'bhí i gceist ag an Muimhneach sin, Merriman?

    Bhí argóint iontach ag Declan Kiberd faoi sin. Déanfaidh mé cóip air níos déanaí agus cuirfidh mé suas anseo é. :)


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