Season 4 Episode 2 "The Lion and the Rose" : HAVE read the books

lynski · 14-04-2014 9:33pm

He he, I know i shouldn't but love the other thread

Originally Posted by Da Shins Kelly View Post
Would Tywin care enough about Tyrion to save him st this stage though? I could imagine Tywin being fine with Tyrion being blamed.

Who is acting king now? Tywin?
Tywin has used the line "because you're Lannister" numerous times already. He will not let Tyrion die, especially as he is the key to the North. And I can't imagine him having had any particular like for Joffrey. The only threat to Tyrion is Cersei.

Ah bless

username123 · 14-04-2014 9:35pm

Blay wrote: »

They put a woman in to add another dynamic to the story...people don't expect a woman to be that cruel.

I don't think she's jealous of her...she's scoffing at Brienne loving Jaime more than anything.

There was definitely a stone gone from the necklace, the one furthest to Sansa's left, there are some screencaps of it going around.

I'd say they're setting up for Ramsay to hunt that particular girl later on, really show what he is made of. Theon should have sliced his throat for him.

You think? I read it as jealousy, surprised that Jaime would (a) rescue another woman and (b) not tell Cersei.

I'll have to watch again more carefully, it wasn't obvious to me, although I didn't see a very high res version.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 14-04-2014 9:36pm

nibtrix wrote: »

This pretty much sums it up for me...

I am gonna miss Joffrey though - it was nice to have him to absolutely hate with a passion. There's always Ramsay I guess, but it's not the same.

A Neurotic · 14-04-2014 9:36pm

He nailed it in an earlier post:

Da Shins Kelly wrote:

Granny Tyrell also seems to be pretty peeved about having to pay for so much of the wedding, and wasn't there a conversation between her and Sansa in an earlier episode where Sansa tells her that Joffrey is a monster or something like that? Maybe she's trying to save Margery. And aren't the Tyrells historically supportive of the Targaryens, not the Lannisters? As in, they supported them whenever the mad king was usurped?

Also, it was Littlefinger who brought the Tyrells into the fold, wasn't it? So maybe he does have something to with orchestrating the whole thing.

It seems like Tyrion could end up taking the fall though, regardless.

bopper · 14-04-2014 9:36pm

username123 wrote: »

Ramsay Snow - I just didn't buy that he would have a female partner in crime. Was the one she shot the same one she had previously been riding Theon with?

We don't know who this female partner in crime is yet though. If she never appears again or is simply a background character, then yes it will be a bit bit strange. If she's a new character created for the show though then she might have some connection to Ramsay or Roose that just hasn't been explained yet.

Paddy Cow · 14-04-2014 9:37pm

gandalf wrote: »

Great episode really enjoyed the way Joffrey was offed, it was just as gruesome as I imagined it from reading the books! The only disappointment I had was the reaction of the wife, she wasn't as shocked as she was with the Red Wedding. I definitely think the non-readers are getting desensitised to the shocks!!

The RW was more shocking though. The build up and contrast between the happy wedding atmosphere and Catelyn's realisation that something bad was about to happen. I knew it was coming but they way they started by knifing a clearly pregnant Talisa was especially brutal.

With the PW, the killing of Joffrey wasn't as sadistic and felt somehow justified by him being such a douchebag, therefore his murder wasn't so shocking. With Rob and Talisa, people wanted to see them succeed so their murder hit people more.

bopper · 14-04-2014 9:40pm

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

I am gonna miss Joffrey though - it was nice to have him to absolutely hate with a passion. There's always Ramsay I guess, but it's not the same.

I think they're setting up Cersei to take that role. She seemed nastier than usual in this episode.

Paddy Cow · 14-04-2014 9:41pm

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

This pretty much sums it up for me...

I am gonna miss Joffrey though - it was nice to have him to absolutely hate with a passion. There's always Ramsay I guess, but it's not the same.

It's not the same because Ramsay can only be cruel with his subordinates. We saw Roose putting him well and truly in his place today. Joffrey is King so can be cruel to anybody and really disrespectful to people he should be listening to. We hate him so much because we know how galling it would be to have to grovel and pander to such a snivelling little weasel. The only people who were capable of standing up to him were Tywin and Tyrion, although Tyrion had to be a lot more careful once he lost his position as Hand.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 14-04-2014 9:49pm

bopper wrote: »

I think they're setting up Cersei to take that role. She seemed nastier than usual in this episode.

I don't think I can dislike Cersei anywhere near as much as I dislike Joffrey, Ramsay and various other characters. Probably because she has POV chapters in the books - once we see some of her thought process in A Feast For Crows, I started to warm to her a bit more.

username123 · 14-04-2014 9:52pm

bopper wrote: »

We don't know who this female partner in crime is yet though. If she never appears again or is simply a background character, then yes it will be a bit bit strange. If she's a new character created for the show though then she might have some connection to Ramsay or Roose that just hasn't been explained yet.

She was one of the two who started riding Theon before Ramsay chopped his cock off.

bur · 14-04-2014 10:06pm

Dany-less episodes are the best.

lynski · 14-04-2014 10:08pm

must be my sleep deprived brain, but can someone remind me where fake arya is?

pookiesboo · 14-04-2014 10:25pm

Sigur Ros played the band who Joffrey threw the money at.
Poor Tyrion, will he ever catch a break.

mewso · 14-04-2014 10:26pm

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

That might change when she starts making up lies about him in court!

I have a feeling Shae will be dragged into court and made to look like she is forced to testify against Tyrion then Tywin has her sent off to be hanged or something justifying what follows. Something that doesn't make Tyrion look too evil. If they follow the books at this point then I simply don't understand why they have done what they have done.

bopper · 14-04-2014 10:29pm

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

I don't think I can dislike Cersei anywhere near as much as I dislike Joffrey, Ramsay and various other characters. Probably because she has POV chapters in the books - once we see some of her thought process in A Feast For Crows, I started to warm to her a bit more.

Really!? I thought she became more horrific once she started getting her POV chapters.

FunLover18 · 14-04-2014 10:29pm

I was also disappointed they didn't have Joff clawing at his throat, great imagery which I absolutely loved.

I don't really like Ramsay, he's a bit too panto for my liking, and I didn't like the Cersei/Brienne exchange either. In the books it's always hinted at but never outright implied. I know it's TV and you can't show characters' thoughts but it is possible to be subtle. Also it's not even important to the main plot.

I hate Shae, can't wait to see her get her comeuppance.

bopper · 14-04-2014 10:32pm

username123 wrote: »

She was one of the two who started riding Theon before Ramsay chopped his cock off.

I know that, but that doesn't mean they're not going to explain who she is further down the line.

username123 · 14-04-2014 10:35pm

bopper wrote: »

I know that, but that doesn't mean they're not going to explain who she is further down the line.

I don't know what you mean, she's just some bird Ramsay is riding, no one important, she's not in the books. Do you think she has some future importance?

bopper · 14-04-2014 11:05pm

username123 wrote: »

I don't know what you mean, she's just some bird Ramsay is riding, no one important, she's not in the books. Do you think she has some future importance?

You said it was strange that Ramsay had a female partner in crime and I simply suggested that she may have some connection to Ramsay or Roose that hasn't been explained yet. I'm not saying she could turn out to be someone important, just that the writers may end up giving her character some kind of back story though to better explain why she assists Ramsay. She wouldn't be the first character to appear in the show that hasn't appeared in the books.

bur · 14-04-2014 11:06pm

lynski wrote: »

must be my sleep deprived brain, but can someone remind me where fake arya is?

She's not been in the show bar maybe two non speaking scenes in season one. Perhaps they'll have that one with Ramsay play fake Arya?

On Ramsay, i'm really not a fan of Iwan Rhoen's portrayal, some of his facial expressions are so over the top and goofy. Don't find him in the least bit scary. Not just his fault though, having him holding hands with a girl and practically skipping through the forest, even if he is doing something terrible. Just naff all round.

username123 · 14-04-2014 11:08pm

bopper wrote: »

You said it was strange that Ramsay had a female partner in crime and I simply suggested that she may have some connection to Ramsay or Roose that hasn't been explained yet. I'm not saying she could turn out to be someone important, just that the writers may end up giving her character some kind of back story though to better explain why she assists Ramsay. She wouldn't be the first character to appear in the show that hasn't appeared in the books.

Oh I get ya. My money is on her suffering some horrible torture and rape at Ramsays hands when he gets bored with her. Or possibly standing in as fake Arya Stark somehow.

ibarelycare · 14-04-2014 11:16pm

Paddy Cow · 14-04-2014 11:17pm

username123 wrote: »

Oh I get ya. My money is on her suffering some horrible torture and rape at Ramsays hands when he gets bored with her. Or possibly standing in as fake Arya Stark somehow.

I really hope they don't change fake Arya. The only redeeming thing Theon does once Robb sends him to make a truce with the Iron Islands, is to finally grow a pair of balls and rescue Jeyne Poole.

I watched the beginning again and Ramsay was calling her "Lady Miranda". I doubt she is a lady and is more likely a bastard like Ramsay. Two little psycho's playing off each other's cruelty. I agree though that Ramsay will eventually tire of her and more than likely kill her in some horrible manner.

Was the blond girl (Thandi) they were chasing the other girl who was getting Theon all worked up? I couldn't quite make that out but Ramsay said Thandi had to die as she was making Lady Miranda jealous.

ibarelycare · 14-04-2014 11:18pm

Great episode, seemed too short!

My thoughts on the episode have pretty much been covered by other posts in here, except I don't think I've seen anyone remark on Alfie Allen's acting...he's doing an amazing job as broken Theon. Really really impressed with him.

Witcher · 14-04-2014 11:37pm

Great seeing all the speculation on the other thread...must be great to see it all being played out and be free to make guesses etc:pac:

Being a reader ruins it to a certain extent

lynski · 14-04-2014 11:42pm

So Myranda is tha same one that teased theon, but Tansy is not. interesting they used the name tansy, isn't that the name that Caitlins father was saying while dying?

Barna77 · 15-04-2014 12:07am

So long Joffrey

ANd the Reeds are back... yawn

December2012 · 15-04-2014 12:13am

In the books do the boltons know that Bran and Rickon are alive? And is anybody hunting them on Boltons behalf?

Witcher · 15-04-2014 12:15am

December2012 wrote: »

In the books do the boltons know that Bran and Rickon are alive? And is anybody hunting them on Boltons behalf?

Yeah they do, Ramsay was the one who flayed the miller's boys to hide it.

Don't think so.

longhalloween · 15-04-2014 12:39am

Would have likes it to end with sansa and dontos in a raft arriving beside a ship in the harbour.

A few crossbowmen look over the side and riddle dontos, then the episode ends with littlefingers smarmy face peering over at sansa.

Holy Hand Grenade · 15-04-2014 1:31am

I was not expecting that they would explicitly (yet subtly) show Olenna taking the poison from Sansa's necklace in the show. A nice plus for the readers.

Irishcrx · 15-04-2014 8:28am

One thing I don't get , why would Olenna poison Joffrey when her grandaughter has just married him and became queen? Am I missing something here?

Peregrine · 15-04-2014 8:30am

Irishcrx wrote: »

One thing I don't get , why would Olenna poison Joffrey when her grandaughter has just married him and became queen? Am I missing something here?

The Tyrells want Margaery to be Queen but they don't want her married to Joffrey.

Did you not read AFFC? I don't want to spoil it for you if you didin't.

Irishcrx · 15-04-2014 8:52am

Ah ok I haven't read the books just following the show , I just would have thought if Joffrey was dead she wouldn't be queen for very long..

Lovely Bloke · 15-04-2014 8:53am

Irishcrx wrote: »

Ah ok I haven't read the books just following the show , I just would have thought if Joffrey was dead she wouldn't be queen for very long..

you should stop reading this thread then, unless you are purposely spoilering yourself

Mr Freeze · 15-04-2014 9:05am

Irishcrx wrote: »

Ah ok I haven't read the books just following the show , I just would have thought if Joffrey was dead she wouldn't be queen for very long..

Unfollow this thread asap so.

username123 · 15-04-2014 9:12am

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I really hope they don't change fake Arya. The only redeeming thing Theon does once Robb sends him to make a truce with the Iron Islands, is to finally grow a pair of balls and rescue Jeyne Poole.

I watched the beginning again and Ramsay was calling her "Lady Miranda". I doubt she is a lady and is more likely a bastard like Ramsay. Two little psycho's playing off each other's cruelty. I agree though that Ramsay will eventually tire of her and more than likely kill her in some horrible manner.

Was the blond girl (Thandi) they were chasing the other girl who was getting Theon all worked up? I couldn't quite make that out but Ramsay said Thandi had to die as she was making Lady Miranda jealous.

I know, I agree re fake Arya. I dont really see how it can be Miranda though, Miranda likes Ramsay.

No - the one they chased wasnt the same one (I checked the wiki), but is apparently another one of his bed warmers.

Tom.D.BJJ · 15-04-2014 9:34am

PW aside, i found Brans tree vision very interesting. It showed Ned in the Godswood with Ice, and then Ned in the Kings Landing Dungeons, as well as Bloodravens voice "under the tree"

Two massively important parts for me are the empty throne covered in ash?, and the dragon shadow over Kings Landing.

PopePalpatine · 15-04-2014 9:52am

I keep seeing Dontos's name and reading it as "Doritos". :pac:

Riskymove · 15-04-2014 10:47am

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Two massively important parts for me are the empty throne covered in ash?,

I thought it was snow... as in winter reaching King's Landing?

Mr Freeze · 15-04-2014 10:52am

Riskymove wrote: »

I thought it was snow... as in winter reaching King's Landing?

It was the image Dany saw at the end of Season 2, when she was in the house of the undying.

The Throne room with no roof and it snowing outside.

Kunkka · 15-04-2014 10:57am

Mr Freeze wrote: »

It was the image Dany saw at the end of Season 2, when she was in the house of the undying.

The Throne room with no roof and it snowing outside.

Yep looked exactly the same. That's two characters who have foreseen the destruction of KL's. Hurry up and finish the books George you wanker

Hyzepher · 15-04-2014 11:14am

I hate to see some posts on the "Not Read the Books" forum speculate about things that they have obviously gotten from the books - putting them forward as their own thoughts.

Some are just too accurate in things that you can't get from the show

Michael D Not Higgins · 15-04-2014 11:21am

Hyzepher wrote: »

I hate to see some posts on the "Not Read the Books" forum speculate about things that they have obviously gotten from the books - putting them forward as their own thoughts.

Some are just too accurate in things that you can't get from the show

The one about Littlefinger and Olenna? Yeah a little too on the button. There were similar predictions from some people last year which were all too knowledgeable.

Sleepy · 15-04-2014 11:25am

Don't understimate all the non-book readers. There was a banning last year of someone who was just watching very closely and hadn't actually read the books yet.

FunLover18 · 15-04-2014 11:27am

Was anybody else watching Tommen during the episode. He didn't look nearly childish and innocent enough for me, the actor playing him actually looked like he was trying to imitate Gleeson, looked very snooty

Mr Freeze · 15-04-2014 11:36am

Sleepy wrote: »

Don't understimate all the non-book readers. There was a banning last year of someone who was just watching very closely and hadn't actually read the books yet.

But there are book readers or wiki readers posting in there under the guise of someone that watches and rewatches it very closely.

Like someone posted a link saying, Here is a a link to someone on Reddit who worked it all out, Re: the poisoning. The link should be, here is a post to someone who has read the books and is now just doing screen shots explaining how it has depicted in the show, they worked nothing out themselves, just out to get praise.

I think no book reader should be posting in those threads at all.

Mr.Prodston · 15-04-2014 11:36am

I think as book readers we get a little paranoid, I was certainly paranoid last year in the build up to the RW.

But Littlefinger and QoT did have a chat last season on screen if I remember rightly and his absence is bound to arouse some intrigue from others. It's very hard to tell who's been paying attention and who's been researching, in some circumstances. In others it's as clear as day.

ibarelycare · 15-04-2014 11:39am

FunLover18 wrote: »

Was anybody else watching Tommen during the episode. He didn't look nearly childish and innocent enough for me, the actor playing him actually looked like he was trying to imitate Gleeson, looked very snooty

I didn't think so. When the dwarfs came out during the wedding they showed him laughing, and then he looked sideways towards Tyrion and saw his face and stopped laughing. That showed that he's kind at least.

He's a lot older than the character in the books though.

Witcher · 15-04-2014 11:41am

Mr Freeze wrote: »

I think no book reader should be posting in those threads at all.

It's fine for declared book readers to post in them, it's not them you need to be worried about, it's people claiming to be show only and 'speculating'.

Banning readers from those threads won't stop that.

ibarelycare wrote: »

He's a lot older than the character in the books though.

I don't think people would buy a 7/8yo kid marrying Margaery. They're trying to tone down some of the things show watchers would find unbelieveable..like this, Daario's beard etc.

Season 4 Episode 2 "The Lion and the Rose" : *HAVE* read the books

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Season 4 Episode 2 "The Lion and the Rose" : HAVE read the books