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Season 4 Episode 2 "The Lion and the Rose" : *HAVE* read the books

245

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    He he, I know i shouldn't but love the other thread
    Originally Posted by Da Shins Kelly View Post
    Would Tywin care enough about Tyrion to save him st this stage though? I could imagine Tywin being fine with Tyrion being blamed.

    Who is acting king now? Tywin?
    Tywin has used the line "because you're Lannister" numerous times already. He will not let Tyrion die, especially as he is the key to the North. And I can't imagine him having had any particular like for Joffrey. The only threat to Tyrion is Cersei.

    Ah bless


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Blay wrote: »
    They put a woman in to add another dynamic to the story...people don't expect a woman to be that cruel.

    I don't think she's jealous of her...she's scoffing at Brienne loving Jaime more than anything.

    There was definitely a stone gone from the necklace, the one furthest to Sansa's left, there are some screencaps of it going around.

    I'd say they're setting up for Ramsay to hunt that particular girl later on, really show what he is made of. Theon should have sliced his throat for him.

    You think? I read it as jealousy, surprised that Jaime would (a) rescue another woman and (b) not tell Cersei.

    I'll have to watch again more carefully, it wasn't obvious to me, although I didn't see a very high res version.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,503 ✭✭✭✭Also Starring LeVar Burton


    nibtrix wrote: »
    h660FD0C5

    This pretty much sums it up for me... :D

    I am gonna miss Joffrey though - it was nice to have him to absolutely hate with a passion. There's always Ramsay I guess, but it's not the same.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭A Neurotic


    He nailed it in an earlier post:
    Granny Tyrell also seems to be pretty peeved about having to pay for so much of the wedding, and wasn't there a conversation between her and Sansa in an earlier episode where Sansa tells her that Joffrey is a monster or something like that? Maybe she's trying to save Margery. And aren't the Tyrells historically supportive of the Targaryens, not the Lannisters? As in, they supported them whenever the mad king was usurped?

    Also, it was Littlefinger who brought the Tyrells into the fold, wasn't it? So maybe he does have something to with orchestrating the whole thing.

    It seems like Tyrion could end up taking the fall though, regardless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭bopper


    Ramsay Snow - I just didn't buy that he would have a female partner in crime. Was the one she shot the same one she had previously been riding Theon with?

    We don't know who this female partner in crime is yet though. If she never appears again or is simply a background character, then yes it will be a bit bit strange. If she's a new character created for the show though then she might have some connection to Ramsay or Roose that just hasn't been explained yet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    gandalf wrote: »
    Great episode really enjoyed the way Joffrey was offed, it was just as gruesome as I imagined it from reading the books! The only disappointment I had was the reaction of the wife, she wasn't as shocked as she was with the Red Wedding. I definitely think the non-readers are getting desensitised to the shocks!!
    The RW was more shocking though. The build up and contrast between the happy wedding atmosphere and Catelyn's realisation that something bad was about to happen. I knew it was coming but they way they started by knifing a clearly pregnant Talisa was especially brutal.

    With the PW, the killing of Joffrey wasn't as sadistic and felt somehow justified by him being such a douchebag, therefore his murder wasn't so shocking. With Rob and Talisa, people wanted to see them succeed so their murder hit people more.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭bopper


    I am gonna miss Joffrey though - it was nice to have him to absolutely hate with a passion. There's always Ramsay I guess, but it's not the same.

    I think they're setting up Cersei to take that role. She seemed nastier than usual in this episode.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    This pretty much sums it up for me... :D

    I am gonna miss Joffrey though - it was nice to have him to absolutely hate with a passion. There's always Ramsay I guess, but it's not the same.
    It's not the same because Ramsay can only be cruel with his subordinates. We saw Roose putting him well and truly in his place today. Joffrey is King so can be cruel to anybody and really disrespectful to people he should be listening to. We hate him so much because we know how galling it would be to have to grovel and pander to such a snivelling little weasel. The only people who were capable of standing up to him were Tywin and Tyrion, although Tyrion had to be a lot more careful once he lost his position as Hand.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,503 ✭✭✭✭Also Starring LeVar Burton


    bopper wrote: »
    I think they're setting up Cersei to take that role. She seemed nastier than usual in this episode.

    I don't think I can dislike Cersei anywhere near as much as I dislike Joffrey, Ramsay and various other characters. Probably because she has POV chapters in the books - once we see some of her thought process in A Feast For Crows, I started to warm to her a bit more.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    bopper wrote: »
    We don't know who this female partner in crime is yet though. If she never appears again or is simply a background character, then yes it will be a bit bit strange. If she's a new character created for the show though then she might have some connection to Ramsay or Roose that just hasn't been explained yet.

    She was one of the two who started riding Theon before Ramsay chopped his cock off.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭bur


    Dany-less episodes are the best.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    must be my sleep deprived brain, but can someone remind me where fake arya is?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭pookiesboo


    Sigur Ros played the band who Joffrey threw the money at.
    Poor Tyrion, will he ever catch a break.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 9,012 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    That might change when she starts making up lies about him in court!

    I have a feeling Shae will be dragged into court and made to look like she is forced to testify against Tyrion then Tywin has her sent off to be hanged or something justifying what follows. Something that doesn't make Tyrion look too evil. If they follow the books at this point then I simply don't understand why they have done what they have done.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭bopper


    I don't think I can dislike Cersei anywhere near as much as I dislike Joffrey, Ramsay and various other characters. Probably because she has POV chapters in the books - once we see some of her thought process in A Feast For Crows, I started to warm to her a bit more.

    Really!? I thought she became more horrific once she started getting her POV chapters.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    I was also disappointed they didn't have Joff clawing at his throat, great imagery which I absolutely loved.

    I don't really like Ramsay, he's a bit too panto for my liking, and I didn't like the Cersei/Brienne exchange either. In the books it's always hinted at but never outright implied. I know it's TV and you can't show characters' thoughts but it is possible to be subtle. Also it's not even important to the main plot.

    I hate Shae, can't wait to see her get her comeuppance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭bopper


    She was one of the two who started riding Theon before Ramsay chopped his cock off.

    I know that, but that doesn't mean they're not going to explain who she is further down the line.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    bopper wrote: »
    I know that, but that doesn't mean they're not going to explain who she is further down the line.

    I don't know what you mean, she's just some bird Ramsay is riding, no one important, she's not in the books. Do you think she has some future importance?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭bopper


    I don't know what you mean, she's just some bird Ramsay is riding, no one important, she's not in the books. Do you think she has some future importance?

    You said it was strange that Ramsay had a female partner in crime and I simply suggested that she may have some connection to Ramsay or Roose that hasn't been explained yet. I'm not saying she could turn out to be someone important, just that the writers may end up giving her character some kind of back story though to better explain why she assists Ramsay. She wouldn't be the first character to appear in the show that hasn't appeared in the books.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭bur


    lynski wrote: »
    must be my sleep deprived brain, but can someone remind me where fake arya is?

    She's not been in the show bar maybe two non speaking scenes in season one. Perhaps they'll have that one with Ramsay play fake Arya?

    On Ramsay, i'm really not a fan of Iwan Rhoen's portrayal, some of his facial expressions are so over the top and goofy. Don't find him in the least bit scary. Not just his fault though, having him holding hands with a girl and practically skipping through the forest, even if he is doing something terrible. Just naff all round.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    bopper wrote: »
    You said it was strange that Ramsay had a female partner in crime and I simply suggested that she may have some connection to Ramsay or Roose that hasn't been explained yet. I'm not saying she could turn out to be someone important, just that the writers may end up giving her character some kind of back story though to better explain why she assists Ramsay. She wouldn't be the first character to appear in the show that hasn't appeared in the books.

    Oh I get ya. My money is on her suffering some horrible torture and rape at Ramsays hands when he gets bored with her. Or possibly standing in as fake Arya Stark somehow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭ibarelycare


    gEsC4yn.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Oh I get ya. My money is on her suffering some horrible torture and rape at Ramsays hands when he gets bored with her. Or possibly standing in as fake Arya Stark somehow.
    I really hope they don't change fake Arya. The only redeeming thing Theon does once Robb sends him to make a truce with the Iron Islands, is to finally grow a pair of balls and rescue Jeyne Poole.

    I watched the beginning again and Ramsay was calling her "Lady Miranda". I doubt she is a lady and is more likely a bastard like Ramsay. Two little psycho's playing off each other's cruelty. I agree though that Ramsay will eventually tire of her and more than likely kill her in some horrible manner.

    Was the blond girl (Thandi) they were chasing the other girl who was getting Theon all worked up? I couldn't quite make that out but Ramsay said Thandi had to die as she was making Lady Miranda jealous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭ibarelycare


    Great episode, seemed too short!


    My thoughts on the episode have pretty much been covered by other posts in here, except I don't think I've seen anyone remark on Alfie Allen's acting...he's doing an amazing job as broken Theon. Really really impressed with him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,638 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Great seeing all the speculation on the other thread...must be great to see it all being played out and be free to make guesses etc:pac:

    Being a reader ruins it to a certain extent


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    So Myranda is tha same one that teased theon, but Tansy is not. interesting they used the name tansy, isn't that the name that Caitlins father was saying while dying?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,272 ✭✭✭Barna77


    So long Joffrey :D

    ANd the Reeds are back... yawn


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    In the books do the boltons know that Bran and Rickon are alive? And is anybody hunting them on Boltons behalf?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,638 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    In the books do the boltons know that Bran and Rickon are alive? And is anybody hunting them on Boltons behalf?

    Yeah they do, Ramsay was the one who flayed the miller's boys to hide it.

    Don't think so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    Would have likes it to end with sansa and dontos in a raft arriving beside a ship in the harbour.

    A few crossbowmen look over the side and riddle dontos, then the episode ends with littlefingers smarmy face peering over at sansa.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Holy Hand Grenade


    I was not expecting that they would explicitly (yet subtly) show Olenna taking the poison from Sansa's necklace in the show. A nice plus for the readers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    One thing I don't get , why would Olenna poison Joffrey when her grandaughter has just married him and became queen? Am I missing something here?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Irishcrx wrote: »
    One thing I don't get , why would Olenna poison Joffrey when her grandaughter has just married him and became queen? Am I missing something here?

    The Tyrells want Margaery to be Queen but they don't want her married to Joffrey.

    Did you not read AFFC? I don't want to spoil it for you if you didin't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    Ah ok I haven't read the books just following the show , I just would have thought if Joffrey was dead she wouldn't be queen for very long..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,748 ✭✭✭✭Lovely Bloke


    Irishcrx wrote: »
    Ah ok I haven't read the books just following the show , I just would have thought if Joffrey was dead she wouldn't be queen for very long..

    you should stop reading this thread then, unless you are purposely spoilering yourself


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Irishcrx wrote: »
    Ah ok I haven't read the books just following the show , I just would have thought if Joffrey was dead she wouldn't be queen for very long..

    Unfollow this thread asap so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    I really hope they don't change fake Arya. The only redeeming thing Theon does once Robb sends him to make a truce with the Iron Islands, is to finally grow a pair of balls and rescue Jeyne Poole.

    I watched the beginning again and Ramsay was calling her "Lady Miranda". I doubt she is a lady and is more likely a bastard like Ramsay. Two little psycho's playing off each other's cruelty. I agree though that Ramsay will eventually tire of her and more than likely kill her in some horrible manner.

    Was the blond girl (Thandi) they were chasing the other girl who was getting Theon all worked up? I couldn't quite make that out but Ramsay said Thandi had to die as she was making Lady Miranda jealous.

    I know, I agree re fake Arya. I dont really see how it can be Miranda though, Miranda likes Ramsay.

    No - the one they chased wasnt the same one (I checked the wiki), but is apparently another one of his bed warmers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭Tom.D.BJJ


    PW aside, i found Brans tree vision very interesting. It showed Ned in the Godswood with Ice, and then Ned in the Kings Landing Dungeons, as well as Bloodravens voice "under the tree" :)

    Two massively important parts for me are the empty throne covered in ash?, and the dragon shadow over Kings Landing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,964 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    I keep seeing Dontos's name and reading it as "Doritos". :pac:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,899 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »
    Two massively important parts for me are the empty throne covered in ash?,

    I thought it was snow... as in winter reaching King's Landing?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Riskymove wrote: »
    I thought it was snow... as in winter reaching King's Landing?

    It was the image Dany saw at the end of Season 2, when she was in the house of the undying.

    The Throne room with no roof and it snowing outside.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Kunkka


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    It was the image Dany saw at the end of Season 2, when she was in the house of the undying.

    The Throne room with no roof and it snowing outside.

    Yep looked exactly the same. That's two characters who have foreseen the destruction of KL's. Hurry up and finish the books George you wanker :)


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hyzepher


    I hate to see some posts on the "Not Read the Books" forum speculate about things that they have obviously gotten from the books - putting them forward as their own thoughts.

    Some are just too accurate in things that you can't get from the show


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Hyzepher wrote: »
    I hate to see some posts on the "Not Read the Books" forum speculate about things that they have obviously gotten from the books - putting them forward as their own thoughts.

    Some are just too accurate in things that you can't get from the show

    The one about Littlefinger and Olenna? Yeah a little too on the button. There were similar predictions from some people last year which were all too knowledgeable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Don't understimate all the non-book readers. There was a banning last year of someone who was just watching very closely and hadn't actually read the books yet.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Was anybody else watching Tommen during the episode. He didn't look nearly childish and innocent enough for me, the actor playing him actually looked like he was trying to imitate Gleeson, looked very snooty


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Don't understimate all the non-book readers. There was a banning last year of someone who was just watching very closely and hadn't actually read the books yet.

    But there are book readers or wiki readers posting in there under the guise of someone that watches and rewatches it very closely.

    Like someone posted a link saying, Here is a a link to someone on Reddit who worked it all out, Re: the poisoning. The link should be, here is a post to someone who has read the books and is now just doing screen shots explaining how it has depicted in the show, they worked nothing out themselves, just out to get praise.

    I think no book reader should be posting in those threads at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,305 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Prodston


    I think as book readers we get a little paranoid, I was certainly paranoid last year in the build up to the RW.

    But Littlefinger and QoT did have a chat last season on screen if I remember rightly and his absence is bound to arouse some intrigue from others. It's very hard to tell who's been paying attention and who's been researching, in some circumstances. In others it's as clear as day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭ibarelycare


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    Was anybody else watching Tommen during the episode. He didn't look nearly childish and innocent enough for me, the actor playing him actually looked like he was trying to imitate Gleeson, looked very snooty



    I didn't think so. When the dwarfs came out during the wedding they showed him laughing, and then he looked sideways towards Tyrion and saw his face and stopped laughing. That showed that he's kind at least.

    He's a lot older than the character in the books though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,638 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Mr Freeze wrote: »

    I think no book reader should be posting in those threads at all.

    It's fine for declared book readers to post in them, it's not them you need to be worried about, it's people claiming to be show only and 'speculating'.

    Banning readers from those threads won't stop that.
    He's a lot older than the character in the books though.

    I don't think people would buy a 7/8yo kid marrying Margaery. They're trying to tone down some of the things show watchers would find unbelieveable..like this, Daario's beard etc.


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