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Season 4 Episode 2 "The Lion and the Rose" : *HAVE* read the books

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Comments

  • #32
    Washington Irving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,066 ✭✭✭Washington Irving


    Who was the girl with Ramsay? Would have assumed it was just some whore but she was quite proficient with a bow. Don't recall any such character from the books, doesn't really fit well with the misogynistic literary equivalent of Ramsay imo.

    As already mentioned by others, the changes to Shae's arc don't sit well. I just hope she turns up again in the Tower of the Hand, though it won't live up to the books either way with the way they have gone about it. (They'll hardly try to work her in to Tyrion's adventures in Essos... :eek:)

    Didn't like Cersei straight up asking Brienne if she loved Jaime. Complex relationships are far more interesting than your standard unrequited love of someone deemed superior.


    Don't want to be too critical so:

    I thought Joffrey's death was done extremely well. The whole scene, from the destroying of Lives of Four Kings to the dwarf joust and the expressions of Lady Olenna, Prince Oberyn and Varys, was perfect.


    Looking forward to Sansa's escape and getting reacquainted with Littlefinger next week.


  • #33
    Liam O
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,336 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    Rosy Posy wrote: »
    I was watching my oh for the purple wedding finale and he didn't bat an eyelid- I asked him was he not surprised and he said at this stage he expects everyone to die. I remember being blown away by it in the books. I wonder if grrm's penchant for knocking off main characters is actually desensitising people and diminishing the shock value. I'm guessing Stoneheart will be a genuine surprise all the same.

    I'd say because obviously book reading is a lot more drawn out. Barelt any big characterd die bar Balon Greyjoy in the first half of SoS if I remember correctly, the you have the RW and PW so soon after each other they were both perfectly written hammer blows, then shìt really hits the fan. When you have characters dying at the rate of the show the shock factor would be a lot less.


  • #34
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Washington Irving wrote: »
    Who was the girl with Ramsay? Would have assumed it was just some whore but she was quite proficient with a bow. Don't recall any such character from the books, doesn't really fit well with the misogynistic literary equivalent of Ramsay imo.
    She was one of the women who got Theon all excited before Ramsay cut off his sausage.


  • #35
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    Haven't seen the episode yet, but I really hope the Tyrion/Tywin future scene hasn't had Shae cut form it.

    That was the worst (best) part of the scene, it was gut wrenching for Tyrion. I thought it was the ultimate betrayal.

    Given the fact that he gave her the golden necklace a while back I'm fairly certain she'll feature.

    As for this episode: I knew what was gonna happen but the way they did it was perfect, down to the singers performing The Rains of Castamere :pac:


  • #36
    bopper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭bopper


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    Haven't seen the episode yet, but I really hope the Tyrion/Tywin future scene hasn't had Shae cut form it.

    That was the worst (best) part of the scene, it was gut wrenching for Tyrion. I thought it was the ultimate betrayal.

    I doubt they have cut her out completely. I think they just want viewers to think she's gone. She'll probably be absent for the next few episodes so that she's forgotten about completely and then it will have much more of a shock factor when she's called to the witness stand.


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  • #37
    bopper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭bopper


    So am I right in thinking that with the whole Reek/Ramsay/Roose storyline that this series is actually introducing scenes from book five?


  • #38
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,638 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    I think there might still be time for Coldhands, Ep. 4 has Bran etc. finding shelter but Ep. 10 is called 'The Children' according to the Wiki so the 'shelter' might not be Bloodraven's cave just yet.


  • #39
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 9,012 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    Haven't seen the episode yet, but I really hope the Tyrion/Tywin future scene hasn't had Shae cut form it.

    That was the worst (best) part of the scene, it was gut wrenching for Tyrion. I thought it was the ultimate betrayal.

    One of the big problems with the way they have gone with these characters is that Tyrion killing Shae makes much less sense now as it's no longer the ultimate betrayal at all since he is the one who sent her away. I really don't know what they are doing but I suspect that even though Shae may die it won't be by Tyrion's hands. And that is going badly wrong if you ask me.


  • #40
    Kunkka
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Kunkka


    Well that was extremely satisfying.


  • #41
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    the death scene was rough as hell

    i actually looked away during, was horrible


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  • #42
    Soft Falling Rain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭Soft Falling Rain


    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »
    the death scene was rough as hell

    i actually looked away during, was horrible

    Not me, I savoured every gruesome moment. :) Take that Joffrey you reprehensible little toe rag. :D


  • #43
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Poor kid, even Joffery didn't deserve that.


  • #44
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭Daith


    mewso wrote: »
    One of the big problems with the way they have gone with these characters is that Tyrion killing Shae makes much less sense now as it's no longer the ultimate betrayal at all since he is the one who sent her away. I really don't know what they are doing but I suspect that even though Shae may die it won't be by Tyrion's hands. And that is going badly wrong if you ask me.

    Shae is way to sympathetic in this! There's no way anyone will buy Tyrion killing her.


  • #45
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,962 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    I have to say, the make-up department did a great job with Joff's corpse. They truly made him look feeble and mortal.


  • #46
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Poor kid, even Joffery didn't deserve that.
    Yes he did. Pity Ramsay couldn't have kept him as a pet for awhile before it :D


  • #47
    Pepe LeFrits
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    Daith wrote: »
    Shae is way to sympathetic in this! There's no way anyone will buy Tyrion killing her.
    That might change when she starts making up lies about him in court!


  • #48
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Hmmmm.... Not sure what I make of this.

    Ramsay Snow - I just didn't buy that he would have a female partner in crime. Was the one she shot the same one she had previously been riding Theon with?

    I found the Cersei being jealous with Brienne a bit off too. I mean, surely Jaime has had his pick of the ladies over the years (not that he did anything but they must have fancied him), surely Cersei wouldn't be jealous of someone who looks like Brienne? And besides, she doesn't want him now anyway so why get all brittle and crazy about it?

    Brans storyline is a bit strange, even as a book reader I was a bit confused with some of his visions.

    On the other hand, Bronn taking over sparring with Jaime, perfect. Ser Dontos suddenly appearing for Sansa, excellent.

    I'm so gonna miss Joffrey, I loved to hate him! I don't think it was obvious at all what happened. I didn't notice Sansas necklace looking any different after Lady Oleanna was at her. My husband (non book reader), immediately thought it was Ser Dontos somehow.

    I enjoyed Oberyns passive aggressive interaction with Tywin/Cersei.

    Oh, probably my favourite bit of dialogue was Jaime and Loras, Loras ever the gent about to be complimentary about his impending nuptials, shot down with a threat and still got the last word. Go Team Loras!


  • #49
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Great episode really enjoyed the way Joffrey was offed, it was just as gruesome as I imagined it from reading the books! The only disappointment I had was the reaction of the wife, she wasn't as shocked as she was with the Red Wedding. I definitely think the non-readers are getting desensitised to the shocks!!


  • #50
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,638 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    username123 wrote: »
    Hmmmm.... Not sure what I make of this.

    Ramsay Snow - I just didn't buy that he would have a female partner in crime. Was the one she shot the same one she had previously been riding Theon with?

    I found the Cersei being jealous with Brienne a bit off too. I mean, surely Jaime has had his pick of the ladies over the years (not that he did anything but they must have fancied him), surely Cersei wouldn't be jealous of someone who looks like Brienne? And besides, she doesn't want him now anyway so why get all brittle and crazy about it?

    They put a woman in to add another dynamic to the story...people don't expect a woman to be that cruel.

    I don't think she's jealous of her...she's scoffing at Brienne loving Jaime more than anything.

    There was definitely a stone gone from the necklace, the one furthest to Sansa's left, there are some screencaps of it going around.


  • #51
    nibtrix
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭nibtrix


    h660FD0C5


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  • #52
    lynski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    He he, I know i shouldn't but love the other thread
    Originally Posted by Da Shins Kelly View Post
    Would Tywin care enough about Tyrion to save him st this stage though? I could imagine Tywin being fine with Tyrion being blamed.

    Who is acting king now? Tywin?
    Tywin has used the line "because you're Lannister" numerous times already. He will not let Tyrion die, especially as he is the key to the North. And I can't imagine him having had any particular like for Joffrey. The only threat to Tyrion is Cersei.

    Ah bless


  • #53
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Blay wrote: »
    They put a woman in to add another dynamic to the story...people don't expect a woman to be that cruel.

    I don't think she's jealous of her...she's scoffing at Brienne loving Jaime more than anything.

    There was definitely a stone gone from the necklace, the one furthest to Sansa's left, there are some screencaps of it going around.

    I'd say they're setting up for Ramsay to hunt that particular girl later on, really show what he is made of. Theon should have sliced his throat for him.

    You think? I read it as jealousy, surprised that Jaime would (a) rescue another woman and (b) not tell Cersei.

    I'll have to watch again more carefully, it wasn't obvious to me, although I didn't see a very high res version.


  • #54
    Also Starring LeVar Burton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,503 ✭✭✭✭Also Starring LeVar Burton


    nibtrix wrote: »
    h660FD0C5

    This pretty much sums it up for me... :D

    I am gonna miss Joffrey though - it was nice to have him to absolutely hate with a passion. There's always Ramsay I guess, but it's not the same.


  • #55
    A Neurotic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭A Neurotic


    He nailed it in an earlier post:
    Da Shins Kelly wrote:
    Granny Tyrell also seems to be pretty peeved about having to pay for so much of the wedding, and wasn't there a conversation between her and Sansa in an earlier episode where Sansa tells her that Joffrey is a monster or something like that? Maybe she's trying to save Margery. And aren't the Tyrells historically supportive of the Targaryens, not the Lannisters? As in, they supported them whenever the mad king was usurped?

    Also, it was Littlefinger who brought the Tyrells into the fold, wasn't it? So maybe he does have something to with orchestrating the whole thing.

    It seems like Tyrion could end up taking the fall though, regardless.


  • #56
    bopper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭bopper


    username123 wrote: »
    Ramsay Snow - I just didn't buy that he would have a female partner in crime. Was the one she shot the same one she had previously been riding Theon with?

    We don't know who this female partner in crime is yet though. If she never appears again or is simply a background character, then yes it will be a bit bit strange. If she's a new character created for the show though then she might have some connection to Ramsay or Roose that just hasn't been explained yet.


  • #57
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    gandalf wrote: »
    Great episode really enjoyed the way Joffrey was offed, it was just as gruesome as I imagined it from reading the books! The only disappointment I had was the reaction of the wife, she wasn't as shocked as she was with the Red Wedding. I definitely think the non-readers are getting desensitised to the shocks!!
    The RW was more shocking though. The build up and contrast between the happy wedding atmosphere and Catelyn's realisation that something bad was about to happen. I knew it was coming but they way they started by knifing a clearly pregnant Talisa was especially brutal.

    With the PW, the killing of Joffrey wasn't as sadistic and felt somehow justified by him being such a douchebag, therefore his murder wasn't so shocking. With Rob and Talisa, people wanted to see them succeed so their murder hit people more.


  • #58
    bopper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭bopper


    Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »
    I am gonna miss Joffrey though - it was nice to have him to absolutely hate with a passion. There's always Ramsay I guess, but it's not the same.

    I think they're setting up Cersei to take that role. She seemed nastier than usual in this episode.


  • #59
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »
    This pretty much sums it up for me... :D

    I am gonna miss Joffrey though - it was nice to have him to absolutely hate with a passion. There's always Ramsay I guess, but it's not the same.
    It's not the same because Ramsay can only be cruel with his subordinates. We saw Roose putting him well and truly in his place today. Joffrey is King so can be cruel to anybody and really disrespectful to people he should be listening to. We hate him so much because we know how galling it would be to have to grovel and pander to such a snivelling little weasel. The only people who were capable of standing up to him were Tywin and Tyrion, although Tyrion had to be a lot more careful once he lost his position as Hand.


  • #60
    Also Starring LeVar Burton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,503 ✭✭✭✭Also Starring LeVar Burton


    bopper wrote: »
    I think they're setting up Cersei to take that role. She seemed nastier than usual in this episode.

    I don't think I can dislike Cersei anywhere near as much as I dislike Joffrey, Ramsay and various other characters. Probably because she has POV chapters in the books - once we see some of her thought process in A Feast For Crows, I started to warm to her a bit more.


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  • #61
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    bopper wrote: »
    We don't know who this female partner in crime is yet though. If she never appears again or is simply a background character, then yes it will be a bit bit strange. If she's a new character created for the show though then she might have some connection to Ramsay or Roose that just hasn't been explained yet.

    She was one of the two who started riding Theon before Ramsay chopped his cock off.


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