World 7 s Rugby Last Week

Derbhoy · 28-08-2015 12:35pm #1

Fairly hard hitting article in Limerick Leader about this (non) Event barely drawing a few Hundred spectators and questions of Local Authority funding being substantial towards the Event! I think the Rugby thing has been well flogged in Limerick!

Berty · 28-08-2015 12:54pm

I barely noticed it this year and last year only noticed it because the guys were clogging up the strand hotel gym.

I like rugby but that's not the same game I like. It's not enough to draw me out to see it.

Derbhoy · 28-08-2015 1:17pm

To me it's not Rugby as we know it . It's not taken seriously in the Sporting World tbh! More an excuse for people to arrive in Drag and Fancy Dress and drink plenty of Beer ! It's a pity these people didn't come to Limerick.

Clareman · 28-08-2015 1:29pm

Derbhoy wrote: »

To me it's not Rugby as we know it . It's not taken seriously in the Sporting World tbh! More an excuse for people to arrive in Drag and Fancy Dress and drink plenty of Beer ! It's a pity these people didn't come to Limerick.

It couldn't really be taken more seriously considering it's an Olympic Medal Event

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_sevens_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics

vkid · 28-08-2015 1:37pm

Tbh it's like a lot of things in limerick, badly marketed in my opinion. A lot of things you find out about them a few days before or after the event. A few signs at roundabouts and the odd ad in the local paper or 95fm doesn't cut it. Thomond park are terrible for it imo..They seem to think people will just turn up and are also often just too expensive for some of their events.
Similarly some of the limerick festivals... A lot of people I know living outside the city in places like shannon or ennis or in limerick county never heard of the culture and chips thing, most have no idea what goes on at riverfest and I know loads of people who had no idea the 7 'S thing was on or what it was about.

That's just my opinion though.

Jofspring · 28-08-2015 2:24pm

The interest isn't there. It was club rugby 7's not the international 7's you would regularly see on telly. This competition would be better suited to Garryowen RFC, Crescent or Young Munsters not a 26,000 capacity stadium. It's filled with teams a lot of people wouldn't know with players playing that pretty much no one knows.

phog · 28-08-2015 2:28pm

Derbhoy wrote: »

Fairly hard hitting article in Limerick Leader about this (non) Event barely drawing a few Hundred spectators and questions of Local Authority funding being substantial towards the Event! I think the Rugby thing has been well flogged in Limerick!

I've no idea where they got this number from but if they were there and counted the number of spectators in only once section they'd know this "guesstimate" is grossly under estimated for the stand and terrace.

In saying that the event was poorly supported.

Garryowen Red · 28-08-2015 4:27pm

I think the 7's event can be very good, it's just not very well marketed as is very obvious. While last year wasn't a roaring success games were on Sat and Sun and televised which created some bit of a buzz, this years scheduling of games on a Friday afternoon was lunacy and really didn't help the situation. The other issue was that there were no marquee names there to generate a bit of interest, I suspect if we qualify for Rio 2016 the fact that the tournament will be run soon after might mean some interest for the Irish players playing and maybe some television coverage again which can only help.

Parchment · 28-08-2015 8:48pm

Berty wrote: »

I barely noticed it this year and last year only noticed it because the guys were clogging up the strand hotel gym.

I like rugby but that's not the same game I like. It's not enough to draw me out to see it.

Same! Im in the Strand too....they were not *too* hard to look at though.

Berty · 28-08-2015 8:51pm

Parchment wrote: »

Same! Im in the Strand too....they were not *too* hard to look at though.

Hard not to trip over people in that gym to be fair. If only the treadmills had mirrors in front of them. I don't know how many times I could read the timetables for classes.

Can't perv on the treadmills either.

Parchment · 28-08-2015 9:09pm

Berty wrote: »

Hard not to trip over people in that gym to be fair. If only the treadmills had mirrors in front of them. I don't know how many times I could read the timetables for classes.

Can't perv on the treadmills either.

Ha! i can rattle off the "healthy" menu from upstairs!

moby2101 · 28-08-2015 9:30pm

It's down to marketing or rather the complete lack of ...IMHO

check out the Kinsale 7's tournament(..perfect example, seeing as we're on the topic of rugby) that's been in existence for nearly 30 years and has to be one of the best weekends of rugby and craic there is in the country..we've been down 4 times in the last 8 or 9 years, ok so it has the benefit of running for quite some time but it's run by the local rugby club and you can't book a hotel room or b&b that weekend within an asses roar of Kinsale.
We really need to look-at who sits on these boards and committees , they are clearly under performing time and time again in organisation and proper business ability.....

Clareman · 28-08-2015 9:38pm

Personally I think Munster Rugby made a massive mistake in building Thomond Park as big as they did, the old Thomond Park used to be full maybe three times a year (2 HEC Games and maybe the Leinster game), there was a great buzz about getting a ticket to a HEC game and it became the must see event in town, fables of getting into matches or securing a ticket were part of the buzz, they build a 26k stadium that they figured was going to be filled 7 or 8 times a year, they got away with it for a while with 10 year and season tickets, but once people realised that tickets were easy to come by they stopped getting those tickets.

I think there would be a great opportunity for a tag rugby "Super Cup" weekend that would run in conjunction with a big 7s tournament, unfortunately the powers that be in Thomond Park think that just being Thomond Park will be enough to get people to attend events.

Bored_lad · 29-08-2015 12:12am

Clareman wrote: »

Personally I think Munster Rugby made a massive mistake in building Thomond Park as big as they did, the old Thomond Park used to be full maybe three times a year (2 HEC Games and maybe the Leinster game), there was a great buzz about getting a ticket to a HEC game and it became the must see event in town, fables of getting into matches or securing a ticket were part of the buzz, they build a 26k stadium that they figured was going to be filled 7 or 8 times a year, they got away with it for a while with 10 year and season tickets, but once people realised that tickets were easy to come by they stopped getting those tickets.

I think there would be a great opportunity for a tag rugby "Super Cup" weekend that would run in conjunction with a big 7s tournament, unfortunately the powers that be in Thomond Park think that just being Thomond Park will be enough to get people to attend events.

On your tag rugby point Limerick already hosts the largest tag rugby festival in the world out in d Cresent every year. I think that the sevens should be moved out to one of the clubs like Old Cresent and run in a similar way to the Pig n Porter where it is seen as this run festival to take part in. Thomand Park is too big for something like this and the crowds are always going to look small given the size of the stadium.

Toffeeboy · 29-08-2015 12:12pm

just so everyone knows. This is not a Thomond park or Munster rugby organised event. TP is rented out to some bloke/company that has organised this event.

I agree about lack of promotion of this event and the fact it was on a Friday afternoon. The weekend before they did have 2fm or todayfm out at the crescent sc talking about it but all a bit late then...

(7's just isnt big in ireland - IRFU dont have any interest in it either)

I think TP is probably a bit on the big side also. Then again some people think that the AVIVA stadium is too small since croke park used to be sold out for the 6 nations matches.

Clareman · 29-08-2015 12:46pm

Toffeeboy wrote: »

just so everyone knows. This is not a Thomond park or Munster rugby organised event. TP is rented out to some bloke/company that has organised this event.

I agree about lack of promotion of this event and the fact it was on a Friday afternoon. The weekend before they did have 2fm or todayfm out at the crescent sc talking about it but all a bit late then...

(7's just isnt big in ireland - IRFU dont have any interest in it either)

I think TP is probably a bit on the big side also. Then again some people think that the AVIVA stadium is too small since croke park used to be sold out for the 6 nations matches.

IRFU had the choice between having 3 provinces and a 7s team or 4 provinces, so they went with the 4 provinces.

CatFromHue · 29-08-2015 1:19pm

moby2101 wrote: »

It's down to marketing or rather the complete lack of ...IMHO

check out the Kinsale 7's tournament(..perfect example, seeing as we're on the topic of rugby) that's been in existence for nearly 30 years and has to be one of the best weekends of rugby and craic there is in the country..we've been down 4 times in the last 8 or 9 years, ok so it has the benefit of running for quite some time but it's run by the local rugby club and you can't book a hotel room or b&b that weekend within an asses roar of Kinsale.
We really need to look-at who sits on these boards and committees , they are clearly under performing time and time again in organisation and proper business ability.....

Isn't Kinsale more of a participation event where most, if not nearly all, of the people going down are there to play or know someone playing?

I think you're right about the marketing but because there's nothing to market. Even if you follow rugby you won't know half of these teams and non e of the players. It's being advertised as a big event when it really isn't.

Clareman · 29-08-2015 1:25pm

Looking at last years fixtures Thomond Park was only sold out 3 times, I would question that those sell outs weren't actually full, more than the tickets were sold thanks to season and 10 year tickets, I would say the Pro12 semi final would be a fairly reasonable representation of the rugby going public in Limerick, to run a successful 7s competition would need massive promotion as well as top teams

Date Comp Home Score Away Venue Att
Fri 5 Sep PRO12 Munster Rugby 13 - 14 Edinburgh Rugby Thomond Park 13,428
Fri 19 Sep PRO12 Munster Rugby 31 - 5 Zebre Thomond Park 12,488
Sat 27 Sep PRO12 Munster Rugby 14 - 19 Ospreys Thomond Park 13,547
Fri 10 Oct PRO12 Munster Rugby 17 - 6 Scarlets Thomond Park 13,851
Fri 24 Oct ERCHAMPC-P1 Munster Rugby 14 - 3 Saracens Thomond Park 26,000
Fri 28 Nov PRO12 Munster Rugby 21 - 20 Ulster Rugby Thomond Park 17,101
Sat 6 Dec ERCHAMPC-P1 Munster Rugby 16 - 9 ASM Clermont Auvergne Thomond Park 25,600
Fri 26 Dec PRO12 Munster Rugby 28 - 13 Leinster Rugby Thomond Park 25,600
Sun 25 Jan ERCHAMPC-P1 Munster Rugby 65 - 10 Sale Sharks Thomond Park 17,685
Sat 28 Mar PRO12 Munster Rugby 42 - 20 Connacht Rugby Thomond Park 18,762
Sat 23 May PRO12-PO Munster Rugby 21 - 18 Ospreys Thomond Park 16,158

phog · 29-08-2015 2:04pm

Clareman wrote: »

Looking at last years fixtures Thomond Park was only sold out 3 times, I would question that those sell outs weren't actually full, more than the tickets were sold thanks to season and 10 year tickets, I would say the Pro12 semi final would be a fairly reasonable representation of the rugby going public in Limerick, to run a successful 7s competition would need massive promotion as well as top teams

Date Comp Home Score Away Venue Att
Fri 5 Sep PRO12 Munster Rugby 13 - 14 Edinburgh Rugby Thomond Park 13,428
Fri 19 Sep PRO12 Munster Rugby 31 - 5 Zebre Thomond Park 12,488
Sat 27 Sep PRO12 Munster Rugby 14 - 19 Ospreys Thomond Park 13,547
Fri 10 Oct PRO12 Munster Rugby 17 - 6 Scarlets Thomond Park 13,851
Fri 24 Oct ERCHAMPC-P1 Munster Rugby 14 - 3 Saracens Thomond Park 26,000
Fri 28 Nov PRO12 Munster Rugby 21 - 20 Ulster Rugby Thomond Park 17,101
Sat 6 Dec ERCHAMPC-P1 Munster Rugby 16 - 9 ASM Clermont Auvergne Thomond Park 25,600
Fri 26 Dec PRO12 Munster Rugby 28 - 13 Leinster Rugby Thomond Park 25,600
Sun 25 Jan ERCHAMPC-P1 Munster Rugby 65 - 10 Sale Sharks Thomond Park 17,685
Sat 28 Mar PRO12 Munster Rugby 42 - 20 Connacht Rugby Thomond Park 18,762
Sat 23 May PRO12-PO Munster Rugby 21 - 18 Ospreys Thomond Park 16,158

The Pro12 SF had only one week to sell. Up to the previous Saturday Munster didn't know if they had a home SF nor who the opposition is.

You do realise that the country and the mid west in particular has been hit by a recession and immigration.

If we had the option of moving a few hundred meters to the Aviva like Leinster for a few games each year than the old stadium would have been grand for the rest of our games.
The old stadium had a capacity of about 13k, that figure has been regularly passed in the new stadium. I'm not sure what the capacity of the new stadium should be but an increase from 13k was required.

CatFromHue · 29-08-2015 2:07pm

Was it even 13k? I thought it was lower and about 10k which is tiny for a team of Munster's size.

Clareman · 29-08-2015 2:23pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

Was it even 13k? I thought it was lower and about 10k which is tiny for a team of Munster's size.

It was just over 13k, http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/results_and_fixtures.php?includeref=11678&season=2004-2005 and other seasons around that time were getting full houses a couple of times a year.

Clareman · 29-08-2015 2:33pm

phog wrote: »

The Pro12 SF had only one week to sell. Up to the previous Saturday Munster didn't know if they had a home SF nor who the opposition is.

I don't take the whole "week to sell it", it has gotten to the stage now that the Munster branch seem to think that Thomond Park will sell itself out, even the Munster Support Club email seems more about advertising that telling you about what's happening

phog wrote: »

You do realise that the country and the mid west in particular has been hit by a recession and immigration.

Oooh I do, and then some, 1 of the cuts I had to make was my season ticket, the Munster Branch seem more interested in milking their fans than providing value for money entertainment.

phog wrote: »

If we had the option of moving a few hundred meters to the Aviva like Leinster for a few games each year than the old stadium would have been grand for the rest of our games.

I always think we should look to Ravenhill rather than Leinster, Leinster is based out of Dublin with all that extra capacity, they didn't pump money into Donnybrook, they saw the RDS as a viable option and went with it, they are lucky to have the Aviva as an option to go for, Munster still have that option as well of course. Building a stadium for the hope of a home quarter final isn't a good idea imvho.

phog wrote: »

The old stadium had a capacity of about 13k, that figure has been regularly passed in the new stadium. I'm not sure what the capacity of the new stadium should be but an increase from 13k was required.

I wouldn't say that 13k are regularily attending games, they are selling 13k ticekts for games but there isn't anything near that amount going for games, there's an awful lot of people with season or 10 year tickets that don't go to games, have a look at last years attendances and you'll notice every game has over 12k attendances and some have over 13k, I would say that the lowest attendance is the amount of "default" ticket sales and anything over that is walk up sales.

phog · 29-08-2015 10:20pm

Clareman wrote: »

I don't take the whole "week to sell it", it has gotten to the stage now that the Munster branch seem to think that Thomond Park will sell itself out, even the Munster Support Club email seems more about advertising that telling you about what's happening

I've no idea why you discount the week to sell the Pro12 Semifinal

It's an absolute fact. But even accounting for that - since the league introduced the playoffs our game had the 2nd highest attendance of them all, beaten only by Leinster v Ulster which had two Irish teams.

Have you made any suggestion to the MRSC about what you'd like to see in emails?

Oooh I do, and then some, 1 of the cuts I had to make was my season ticket, the Munster Branch seem more interested in milking their fans than providing value for money entertainment.

Milking their fans? I find it great value and I think a Supporters Club is much more that a source of tickets. However, the product (the quality of the games) can be poor but we've seen an improvement in the last few seasons.

I always think we should look to Ravenhill rather than Leinster, Leinster is based out of Dublin with all that extra capacity, they didn't pump money into Donnybrook, they saw the RDS as a viable option and went with it, they are lucky to have the Aviva as an option to go for, Munster still have that option as well of course. Building a stadium for the hope of a home quarter final isn't a good idea imvho.

Leinster don't need to pump money into a stadium they have one on their doorstep and that's the point I was making. They do however have to pay significant rent for the use of the RDS and the Aviva.

I wouldn't say that 13k are regularily attending games, they are selling 13k ticekts for games but there isn't anything near that amount going for games, there's an awful lot of people with season or 10 year tickets that don't go to games, have a look at last years attendances and you'll notice every game has over 12k attendances and some have over 13k, I would say that the lowest attendance is the amount of "default" ticket sales and anything over that is walk up sales.

If the stadium stayed capped at 13,500 then that's the maximum number of ticket sales you could sell. Since the redevelopment of Thomond Park there has been 75 Munster games played there and of those 71 had an attendance greater then the previous capacity.

On the assumption that the average ticket cost is €25 per League/Amlin games and €30 for the Cup games then Munster gained approx €16m from those extra seats. That excludes any additional income from corporate boxes which was not really available to them in the old stadium.

Competition Games Additional Tickets Revenue
Amlin 1 11407 €285,175
Cup 25 290442 €8,713,260
League 45 285825 €7,145,625
Grand Total 71 587654 €16,144,060

Clareman · 29-08-2015 10:27pm

phog wrote: »

I've no idea why you discount the week to sell the Pro12 Semifinal It's an absolute fact. But even accounting for that - since the league introduced the playoffs our game had the 2nd highest attendance of them all, beaten only by Leinster v Ulster which had two Irish teams.

Fair enough, valid point well made

phog wrote: »

Have you made any suggestion to the MRSC about what you'd like to see in emails?

Yup, even suggested bringing back their old forum they had back in the day.

phog wrote: »

Milking their fans? I find it great value and I think a Supporters Club is much more that a source of tickets. However, the product (the quality of the games) can be poor but we've seen an improvement in the last few seasons.

I agree that the supporters club is more than just a source of tickets, but buying a season ticket is an expensive undertaking and if you don't make every game you are losing out. Doesn't help when you've to travel into games and Friday evenings being a nightmare.

phog wrote: »

Leinster don't need to pump money into a stadium they have one on their doorstep and that's the point I was making. They do however have to pay significant rent for the use of the RDS and the Aviva.

Again, valid point well made

phog wrote: »

If the stadium stayed capped at 13,500 then that's the maximum number of ticket sales you could sell. Since the redevelopment of Thomond Park there has been 75 Munster games played there and of those 71 had an attendance greater then the previous capacity.

On the assumption that the average ticket cost is €25 per League/Amlin games and €30 for the Cup games then Munster gained approx €16m from those extra seats. That excludes any additional income from corporate boxes which was not really available to them in the old stadium.

Competition Games Additional Tickets Revenue
Amlin 1 11407 €285,175
Cup 25 290442 €8,713,260
League 45 285825 €7,145,625
Grand Total 71 587654 €16,144,060

Yes, bigger stadium means bigger attendances which will drive revenue that way, but it'll also mean bigger overheads (staffing, insurance, building). The old stadium needed to be updated, especially to cater for the corporate sector and I guess an argument could be made for any kind of development, personally I would LOVE a 15k stadium with access to the Gaelic Grounds for big games.

phog · 29-08-2015 10:35pm

Clareman wrote: »

I would LOVE a 15k stadium with access to the Gaelic Grounds for big games.

That was never an option when the redevelopment was proposed, is it now even? The GAA has been very good to the IRFU but would they release their grounds for a Cup or League game, hard to know, there's still a lot of die hards out there.

Clareman · 29-08-2015 10:38pm

phog wrote: »

That was never an option when the redevelopment was proposed, is it now even? The GAA has been very good to the IRFU but would they release their grounds for a Cup or League game, hard to know, there's still a lot of die hards out there.

If we get the Rugby World Cup then a number of GAA grounds will be upgraded to facilitate matches, that'll open up a few county grounds.

I think the vast majority of GAA supporters would be fine with opening up big grounds like the Gaelic Grounds from time to time, what they'd have a problem with is having to make every ground available, local GAA pitches, like local Rugby pitches, can't cope with the demands on them at the moment let alone allow access to other clubs.

phog · 29-08-2015 11:00pm

Clareman wrote: »

If we get the Rugby World Cup then a number of GAA grounds will be upgraded to facilitate matches, that'll open up a few county grounds.

I think the vast majority of GAA supporters would be fine with opening up big grounds like the Gaelic Grounds from time to time, what they'd have a problem with is having to make every ground available, local GAA pitches, like local Rugby pitches, can't cope with the demands on them at the moment let alone allow access to other clubs.

That world cup is 2023 at least, 15 years after the redevelopment of Thomond Park. Could Munster Rugby have waited that long?

Even if we get the WC, I can only see one GAA ground in Munster being opened to rugby and if there's two I think they will be PUC and Thurles.

Clareman · 30-08-2015 8:04am

phog wrote: »

That world cup is 2023 at least, 15 years after the redevelopment of Thomond Park. Could Munster Rugby have waited that long?

Even if we get the WC, I can only see one GAA ground in Munster being opened to rugby and if there's two I think they will be PUC and Thurles.

They had to do something, in my opinion they went too big.

In regards to the GAA opening up, I'd say it won't be a blanket opening more a case like Croke Park where if a ground is wanted an application is made and dealt with

vkid · 31-08-2015 7:39am

phog wrote: »

That world cup is 2023 at least, 15 years after the redevelopment of Thomond Park. Could Munster Rugby have waited that long?

Even if we get the WC, I can only see one GAA ground in Munster being opened to rugby and if there's two I think they will be PUC and Thurles.

I thought Thurles was more or less ruled out due to poor infrastructure...ie getting there and staying there ( lack of hotels, decent road links etc).

Derbhoy · 31-08-2015 8:05am

Thurles is a dump End of . Ok for GAA Games definitely not for RUGBY WC games.

phog · 31-08-2015 10:23am

vkid wrote: »

I thought Thurles was more or less ruled out due to poor infrastructure...ie getting there and staying there ( lack of hotels, decent road links etc).

By whom?

World 7 s Rugby Last Week

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