electric bike

15-04-2013 4:48pm

GlennaMaddy wrote: »

it'd certainly be complicated explaining to a judge why you think your bike is not a motorbike when it's not a pedelec either

LOL it's back to a mountain bike, all the electrics are off the bike and i sold them.

But the 2nd setup I built really helped me get fit because I wasn't afraid to go out in wind or tackle the hills and I had lots of fun in the process.

No one bothered me nor I anyone. I kept the power to a minimum if in town and always realised drivers will think I'm on a bicycle, so once I didn't act the fool there was no way I was going to get in trouble and the guards didn't care when I passed them either.

I could have very easily made it a full peddle assist, with a switch that if the guards did pull me there is no way they could tell the difference.

And the laws will be changed soon to allow unlimited power but still a speed limit which is good news for those heavier riders who live in hilly terrain or pull a trailer which 250 watts will do nothing only

Beasty · 15-04-2013 8:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

the measly legal 250 watts that's imposed on Europeans.

That's it. I'm definitely tending towards the "Tuvalu nationality" plan;)

Deleted User wrote: »

Even if 250 watts is enough on a typical tour de France stage, the average non drugged user doesn't want to feel that level of pain

I do:D

trad · 25-09-2013 12:17pm

What does the panel think about this kit?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130977791166?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

As far as I can figure you remove your BB axle. The mounting plate for the motor sits over the BB and is retained by the BB axle supplied. You then anchor the mounting plate to the down tube.

I'm thinking of fitting it to my boardman hybrid so as I can cycle to work but Bray Head twice a day is a killer in at my age and weight.

Here's a video of the setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZUrNloUzTw

25-09-2013 1:15pm

trad wrote: »

What does the panel think about this kit?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130977791166?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

As far as I can figure you remove your BB axle. The mounting plate for the motor sits over the BB and is retained by the BB axle supplied. You then anchor the mounting plate to the down tube.

I'm thinking of fitting it to my boardman hybrid so as I can cycle to work but Bray Head twice a day is a killer in at my age and weight.

That kit would most likely be overkill, but it would certainly pull you up a 20% hill.

That's a GNG kit and pretty good if you only run it at it's rated power, the controller is external making a much more untidy installation.

I really recommend this as the controller is internal. 36 or 48 volts is up to you, 48 volts will mean faster speeds but read the forum and see what best suits you. This guy sells the batteries also.

[URL="http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?

f=31&t=50188"]http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=50188[/URL]

file.php?id=120257

Chain drives are the future for low to medium power, hubs still rule for big power unless of course you want a motor bike chain and sprockets.

But chain drives are much more efficient for hill and mountain climbing especially for slow speed trails that it isn't possible to go up with hub motors because hub motors heat up fast under full load going slow up a steep hill.

The hub motor electric bicycles sold in Ireland are mostly junk.

The best ones use the Panasonic and Bosch middle motors. But cost 1500-2500 Euro's. I have the Bosch and I love it.

bambergbike · 25-09-2013 6:34pm

Why seeing more e-bikes around makes me happy (even though I don't want one)

1) Drivers are beginning to cop on that cyclists are not two-wheeled pedestrians, but vehicles often doing at least 25 km/h. So they don't look, make eye contact with you and then pull out in front of you anyway because you're "only on a bike" - they wait.

2) Same goes for planners and engineers. If loads of cyclists are zipping around at speeds that seem intimidating to pedestrians, planners become more wary of mixing bikes and pedestrians. They become more aware of how important it is to plan for cycling in a way that allows for a range of different cycling speeds on any given route. And they can use e-bikes when they test-ride cycling infrastructure to make sure they understand what it will look like to a commuter travelling at 25 km/h even if their own default cycling speed is lower.

3) If the average speed of cyclists in a town goes up, fit cyclists on ordinary bikes spend less time stuck behind slower cyclists looking for a chance to overtake. (I live in a town with a massive one-way system which is two-way for bikes, but with narrow contraflows that don't permit much overtaking; everbody has to chug along those at the speed of the slowest cyclist.)

3) Towns seem more spacious and cleaner when more people get around on small, low-emissions vehicles and sight lines get better.

4) Mixed-ability cycling groups (mixed generations, or just fit people and less fit people) are more fun and easier to keep together when the people who need a "push" now and again can just get one at the touch of a button.

5) People on e-bikes are not "lost to cycling". E-bikes are a gateway drug that can get people into cycling. More people on bikes regularly = more people driving who understand cycling.

Why I personally don't want one

Expensive e-bike = security risk and/or the bother of toting heavy locks around - as with any other expensive bike.

Cheap e-bike = cycling-through-treacle feeling when the motor suddenly cuts out at 25 km/h + risk of frame snapping (the forces acting on the frame are greater than with an ordinary bike).

Interestingly enough, there isn't a hill in my local area which I would be able to climb "if only I had a motor." Instead, the exact opposite is true: tourists who hire e-bikes locally (to me) can't use them to cycle up the hill to the castle overlooking the town because the gradient is so steep that only "real" bikes can handle it. That hill doesn't trouble my hybrid, but if I was on an e-bike with the weight skewed heavily towards the back, it would be quite hard to stop the front wheel from lifting up. Not all of them are like that, but lots of them are - it's a point worth paying attention to.

25-09-2013 7:46pm

The Bosch system is excellent in the way it applies the power as if you're the one with all the power.

Hills are no problem, I haven't found anything it couldn't climb yet.

I even climbed mount leinster all the way to the mast, 20-25% grades there, but it's pulled me up steeper.

Hills can get tough after a while even on an e-bike such as the Bosch, it makes you work. Which to me is a good thing. You can pedal without power, though some bikes have an sram 3 speed in the rear hub which zaps some pedal power.

There is a bike shop in Dublin City selling the Bosch S-Pedelec which is not allowed on cycle lanes and without insurance but they are selling it as a normal e-bike with 50 kmh speed. This is what is going to give electric bikes a bad rep. So buyers be weary, if it's an S-pedelec you can not use them legally on bike paths. You can not use it legally as a bicycle.

The Bosch is expensive but it's a system you can have for years, pro's spend much more on their bikes. If you commute on it it saves on tax, insurance and petrol/diesel and you may not even need a car.

The diy 40 mph bike I built was ultra fun and I got away with it because I didn't act the idiot or draw attention to myself and I don't live in a very populated area with loads of back roads. You can't go fast in town anyway but it was so handy for the open road.

trad · 25-09-2013 11:37pm

Came across this on the Kenbay Site regarding electric bike legislation.

http://electricbikes.ie/?page_id=106

—– Original Message —– From: “Vehicle Standards Division” < VehicleStandardsDivision@transport.ie >
To: < gerryb@electricbikes.ie >
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 4:51 PM
Subject: Electrically assisted pedal cycles
Dear Gerry,
I refer to your telephone query on electrically assisted pedal cycles.
The Road Traffic Act, 1961 defines a mechanically propelled vehicle (mpv)
as:-
“a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including-
( a ) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used,
( b ) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical, but not including a tramcar or other vehicle running on permanent rails;”
All mpvs must comply with Road Traffic law relating to the construction, equipment and use of vehicles i.e. they must meet all requirements covering such items as brakes, lights, dimensions, weight, springs, wheels, tyres, steering, gears, mudguards, view of the road, mirrors, safety glass, windscreen wipers, mirrors, speedometers, horn, silencer, exhausts emissions, condition and maintenance etc. In addition, a mechanically propelled vehicle may not be used in any public place unless there is in
place third party insurance cover against its negligent use. A mechanically propelled vehicle is also required to be registered, is subject to motor tax and its driver will require a driving licence.
Electrically assisted cycles, known as “pedelecs”, which have electric motors which only assist the pedalling effort and which do not act as a means of propulsion in their own right, are not considered to be mechanically propelled vehicles.
I am obliged to point out that enforcement of the Regulations is a matter for An Garda Síochána while interpretation of them is a matter for the Courts.
I hope this information is helpful.
Yours sincerely,
Johanna XXXXXX
Vehicle Standards Division

26-09-2013 12:08am

S pedelec are pedal only and they are still illegal as bicycles because what wasn't mentioned is the 15.5 mph speed limit still applies along with the 250 watt limit.

However the E.U is somewhat relaxed these days on the power, Bosch actually get away with over 500 watts legally because of the way the power is limited, max power will usually only come where you need it, on hills.

There are talks of unlimited power but still the pedal only and 15.5 mph speed limit. The Idea is people who like to pull a lot of weight up hill can do so without straining the smaller motor.

I never had a problem with throttle only even but then again I didn't act the idiot or abuse others on the road.

I certainly wouldn't buy kenbay bikes, they are grossly over priced Chinese rubbish. At least the Bosch bikes are expensive but they are quality bikes, especially the German made such as Haibike.

Seriously the Kenbay bikes are bought for no more than about 300-400 Euro's and sold for about 1500, complete rip off.

Id like to see the kenbay bikes climb hills like the Bosch.

There are some good quality bikes and kits now from China but kenbay bikes are certainly not quality.

24-10-2013 7:35pm

Why did someone post here today about electric bikes and then delete it ?

Beasty · 24-10-2013 7:47pm

It was deleted by a mod

24-10-2013 8:02pm

Really ?

Beasty · 24-10-2013 8:17pm

If you want to query something a mod has done, PM them - discussion of mod actions is not permitted in-thread

24-10-2013 8:44pm

Beasty wrote: »

If you want to query something a mod has done, PM them - discussion of mod actions is not permitted in-thread

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

The mods must love you ! :rolleyes:

Darkglasses · 24-10-2013 8:47pm

He IS a mod. Check your pm. No further discussion of mod activity in the thread, or you will be infracted.

And for the record yes we do love Beasty, everybody does.

Soulrider · 11-08-2014 7:42pm

If you want to buy an electric bike check out if the suppliers have a monopoly in the country or pay heavily down the line. I bought a Promovec in Dublin and found the after service hugely costly in terms of finance and emotions...I regret not checking if the suppliers had competitors. The agents for the Danish brand (Promovec) were dismissive and sold me a dud "new" motor for a bike needing a replacement motor and refused to accept responsibility for it- indeed they insulted me when I was able to prove it!.... In the end i sought legal legal advice and while I won the battle- I lost the use of my bike for the summer as a commute bike into town and the stress of it all costing more than I can tell. Stay away from Greenaer in Dublin if you want good follow up service on a Promovec.

Potchumkin · 11-08-2014 9:33pm

Sorry to hear of your travails Soulrider
I must admit to have not done too much research when I bought my E bike in Apr, 2012. I bought it from the Chinese lot CI-Ebikes. They are hard nosed Chinese but seemingly straightforward and willing to stand by their product
I had a very early problem with motor control which was rectified immediately. I have ongoing problems with rear wheel spokes, but overall, I have had real pleasure from my bike.
My usage pattern has required that I charge very infrequently. It will be interesting to see what the battery life will be. I have been informed by a local mechanic that the Chinese technology in the motor and battery is good, whereas the basics in frame etc. (I had to replace the pedals after 6 weeks, ongoing difficulties with the rear wheel spokes, and have had to have the crankshaft (apparently non-standard) replaced last month) leave room for improvement.

Soulrider · 11-08-2014 10:24pm

Thanks for this Potchumkin....I never knew that company existed. I've looked at the site and see that they also buy and sell used bikes- maybe I can sell mine and let them deal with Greenaer and their bully boy tactics. I like some of the bikes they ( CI Ebikes ) have for sale - thanks again. Do you know if faster motors exist - ie ones with a strong push power or are they all the same ( the lithium ones) - also do you know how often the battery needs changing ....I think i've had mine 3 years and wondering if it needs a change...

11-08-2014 10:51pm

There are lots of Electrics bikes sold in ireland for over 1200 Euro's that are worth 500 Euro's and bought in bulk from China for 300-400, some tidy profit.

Some Chinese products are excellent but these suppliers decide to buy the junk of junk, some even sold with lead acid batteries. Stay well clear.

The European made bikes that use the Bosch and Panasonic crank motors are among the best you'll buy, they cost a lot but worth it. And you can have them many years with proper care. The kalkhof and Haibikes are excellent. The crank drive motors are very efficient and much better climbing power than those useless weedy frond or rear hub motors.

Some Chinese kits are also excellent, such as the ones sold on em3ev.com, the guy that owns the site is called Paul, an English Gentleman, and has an excellent reputation among the diy E-Bike community. Of course you got to know what you're doing in order to build an E-Bike,.

Greenaer sell some superbly built German electric bikes, I have a Haibike and It's fantastic with the Bosch motor, even pulled me to the RTE mast on Mount Leinster !

OssianSmyth · 13-08-2014 8:56am

By contrast with a previous poster, I have bought two bikes including a BH Neo ebike from Greenaer and the after care service was always excellent. I have always found them helpful and would go back.

Soulrider · 13-08-2014 10:11am

It's a great thing when you find the right match in terms of buyer and seller and it's hugely important. I like dealing with people are creative and passionate about their thing ...whatever that thing is . I've been to Giant, Fitzers and go electric and this is the energy I like to deal with - authentic passionate bike riders who know their stuff and excited to chase a query if they don't have the answer...the team in stillorgan ( Fitzers) are among my favourite - hugely enthusiastic and helpful and polite.... - I know what my issue with Greenaer is now and it's the flatness of the transaction - I felt I was in a car sales room with a an over confident sales man who bluffing a sale....good at what he does ( sells bikes) but not good in the places that are important to me as a soulrider .....maybe I just don't like cocky sales men!.... glad to not to have to deal with Greenaer again though I appreciate others like its brand of shiny BMW sales men.

13-08-2014 10:50am

Just want to make clear I've never had any dealings with Grenaer, I imported my bike driect from Germany.

13-08-2014 10:58am

Just looked at ciebikies and don't like the quality of what I see at all.

If these motors are geared internally then there might be some hope but I strongly suspect they use the direct drive with very little torque.

Again, these bikes while maybe fine for level ground and very small hills they won't be very suitable where you need them most, on hills.

The crank drives are very expensive but they are very high quality and the Bosh is one of the best out there. You could look at the bike as an investment you'll have for years, imo those cheap bikes being sold for 1400 Euro's are not worth the money, better off buying a very good quality road bike instead.

You'd be very surprised at the difference a good quality bikes make to cycle.

Soulrider · 13-08-2014 10:58am

That makes sense ( no dealings with Greenaer and just importing directly from Germany). It's also helpful to learn that is a way to go but remember Greenaer have the monopoly on Promovec and that's where I got caught!. I bought the bike from Fitzers who were selling a few for Greenaer....I didn't know that ( I'd been to Greenaer and didn't like the man or his oily sales rap) but when the bike had a problem , learnt I had to deal with him or Fitzers had to deal with him and I sensed they didn't like him either ( they no longer sell his bikes!). Time to get on my bike !....thanks for all the postings and sympathy on the travails of dealing with pushy sales men....I don't mind admitting - I found it intimidating dealing with Greenaer and had to ask a friend to help me out ..

13-08-2014 1:17pm

Soulrider wrote: »

That makes sense ( no dealings with Greenaer and just importing directly from Germany). It's also helpful to learn that is a way to go but remember Greenaer have the monopoly on Promovec and that's where I got caught!. I bought the bike from Fitzers who were selling a few for Greenaer....I didn't know that ( I'd been to Greenaer and didn't like the man or his oily sales rap) but when the bike had a problem , learnt I had to deal with him or Fitzers had to deal with him and I sensed they didn't like him either ( they no longer sell his bikes!). Time to get on my bike !....thanks for all the postings and sympathy on the travails of dealing with pushy sales men....I don't mind admitting - I found it intimidating dealing with Greenaer and had to ask a friend to help me out ..

Did you get the problem sorted ? are you sure it's the motor that has failed ?

If someone wants to go electric then for the price of some of the junk bikes that are sold in Ireland you can install the following kit, however you do need to have a bike first but you can get excellent quality 2nd hand bikes in good condition without spending huge amounts of money.

http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=187

Choose your battery carefully and read all the coments, any questions e-mail and Paul will reply though it can take a few days with the time difference and he is busy but he's a very helpful fellow. Chosing the wrong battery will be an expensive mistake and it will be your fault. This kit can pull 30 amps and so your battery needs to be capable of supplying this power, read the specs for each battery.

You will only have one front chainwheel and the kit won't work with the front gears but it comes with a 48T chainwheel and if you need mega hill climbing you can buy one of these rear sprockets.

http://www.adapt-network.com/sports/2013/12/oneup-components-42t-sprocket/

Or this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/41-Tooth-Cog-for-Mountain-Bike-Cassette-41t-Sprocket/251408161635

If you're worried about legalities then you can ask for the motor kit to be shipped with or without throttle and it be set to pedal only and for the motor to cut assistance at 15.5 mph.

This is one of the best ways to go for electric assistance, and if you're like me with dodgy knees that suffer on hills and like to pedal a lot you can get away with a smaller battery than you ever could with a fixed speed underpowered hub motor, the crank drives are much more efficient on hills because they can use the bikes gearing.

You can also install this motor on a carbon frame, it has been done, for a light weight e-bike solution. Check the bottom bracket matches the requirments for this kit.

majic 69 · 13-08-2014 6:26pm

Had opportunity to test german bike Hercules TOURER 7 AGT on 50+ km hilly route and this e-bike is just amazing. This was my first contact with e-bike but I’m really impressed.

Bike has three levels of power low, med & high. Range on low power exceeds 100km on battery fully charged but the power is cut off at 20 km/h to save power.
On high power, electric support is cut at 26 km/h with range 30 -40 km. You can pedal faster but with no electric support. Build quality and integration of electric power system is very good - all cabling inside frame, illuminated integrated computer displaying various parameters etc.

Fantastic feature of this bike is automatic 7 speed gearbox. All you need to do is just pedal, when uphill computer will detect loss of speed/pedalling power and reduce gear at the same time increasing motor power maintaining constant speed. There is manual gear change but not needed – autobox works as good as in the car. On high power going steep uphill (10%) it was a piece of cake to maintain 25 km/h. That’s tour de France speed in Alps

13-08-2014 7:38pm

majic 69 wrote: »

Had opportunity to test german bike Hercules TOURER 7 AGT on 50+ km hilly route and this e-bike is just amazing. This was my first contact with e-bike but I’m really impressed.

Bike has three levels of power low, med & high. Range on low power exceeds 100km on battery fully charged but the power is cut off at 20 km/h to save power.
On high power, electric support is cut at 26 km/h with range 30 -40 km. You can pedal faster but with no electric support. Build quality and integration of electric power system is very good - all cabling inside frame, illuminated integrated computer displaying various parameters etc.

Fantastic feature of this bike is automatic 7 speed gearbox. All you need to do is just pedal, when uphill computer will detect loss of speed/pedalling power and reduce gear at the same time increasing motor power maintaining constant speed. There is manual gear change but not needed – autobox works as good as in the car. On high power going steep uphill (10%) it was a piece of cake to maintain 25 km/h. That’s tour de France speed in Alps

If that's the one I'm looking at, it has a front hub motor. If this is the cast then you'd be much better off with a Bosch or Panasonic crank drive, they give far stronger performance on the hills.

Crank drive might have more maintenance than a hub but they're well worth it imo.

I'm also not a fan of rear hub gears, they zap power and you're far better off with normal gears, they're more efficient, that's if you really like to pedal, if not then the auto box would have a lot of advantages.

13-08-2014 8:24pm

This would be far better from Hercules using the Bosch motor.

majic 69 · 13-08-2014 9:37pm

Bosch systems are great but only Hercules fitted with multisensor TranX AGT system are coming with automatic gear transmission which is really helpful for average cyclist.
A lot of pedalling power is lost by incorrect gear selection. With TransX AGT autobox all you need to do watch cadence on the meter and keep pedalling within torque sweet spot (80 -90 RPM) and system will change gear to maintain max torque available. Very much like CVT gearbox in car.
I was bit sceptic to auto gears as well but it works very well.

13-08-2014 9:55pm

Bosch biles are available with the Nuvinci Harmony automatic.

Most gear hubs loose efficiency or create a drag like effect.

I've no doubt the system would work and suit leisurely cyclists and commuters but for people that really like cycling you can't beat derailleurs.

They also add weight and electric bikes already add weight, but I guess most people would turn on some power to compensate.

I would like to try out the cvt's they even come with the option of belt drive. But I prefer cheap and simplistic and much lighter derailleurs and sprockets.

I had the Sram Dual Drive 3 on the Haibike and I took it off, didn't like the draggy feel but for tearing around on motor power it was terrific .

electric bike

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