Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

razorblunt · 29-08-2015 2:12pm

Was at the game last night, pretty awful stuff, the last edinburgh try was a mile forward. Thought Mccloskey did well.

bilston · 30-08-2015 11:19am

I see Charles Piatau missed out on the NZ squad.

Utah_Saint · 30-08-2015 11:22am

bilston wrote: »

I see Charles Piatau missed out on the NZ squad.

Can we take him early or do we have to free up an NIQ spot first?

Buer · 30-08-2015 11:38am

Utah_Saint wrote:

Can we take him early or do we have to free up an NIQ spot first?

You'd be taking him a full season early. He's contracted for next season's S15 still.

awec · 30-08-2015 1:15pm

I though he signed for Wasps or something for this season?

Buer · 30-08-2015 1:21pm

awec wrote: »

I though he signed for Wasps or something for this season?

Apologies, forgot about his supposed move to England. He was set to be with the Blues next season but the NZRU stepped in and said he can't stay.

I don't know if the Wasps move was anything more than a rumour but it's unlikely he'll remain in NZ next season anyway.

awec · 30-08-2015 1:23pm

I hope we can step in and get him early but I doubt it.

bilston · 30-08-2015 1:26pm

awec wrote: »

I hope we can step in and get him early but I doubt it.

I wonder if the reason we can't is because of money or because of IRFU rules on NIQs...or both?

awec · 30-08-2015 1:29pm

Both I guess, he is on a big contract and presumably it would mean extending his current deal to 3 seasons instead of 2.

CatFromHue · 30-08-2015 2:06pm

I dunno I'm still a bit sceptical about seeing him in an Ulster jersey.

When deals are set up as so different like his one they don't always work out in the end.

bilston · 30-08-2015 2:44pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

I dunno I'm still a bit sceptical about seeing him in an Ulster jersey.

When deals are set up as so different like his one they don't always work out in the end.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that he will be anything other than an Ulster player come next season.

Zzippy · 30-08-2015 3:09pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

I dunno I'm still a bit sceptical about seeing him in an Ulster jersey.

When deals are set up as so different like his one they don't always work out in the end.

What's different about his deal?

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2015 3:22pm

Yeah I'm not sure if the Wasps signing was ever completed.

total former · 30-08-2015 3:25pm

Zzippy wrote: »

What's different about his deal?

He's in New Zealand now, will be playing somewhere else this season and then goes to Ulster. Lots of scope for things to change.

bilston · 30-08-2015 4:16pm

total former wrote: »

He's in New Zealand now, will be playing somewhere else this season and then goes to Ulster. Lots of scope for things to change.

You could say about any deal signed in advance. Other than internet speculation like above there is nothing whatsoever to suggest Piatau will be anything but an Ulster player next season.

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2015 4:27pm

bilston wrote: »

You could say about any deal signed in advance. Other than internet speculation like above there is nothing whatsoever to suggest Piatau will be anything but an Ulster player next season.

How many other deals have been signed 18 months in advance? I can't remember any other deals like that.

bilston · 30-08-2015 4:36pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

How many other deals have been signed 18 months in advance? I can't remember any other deals like that.

Plenty of deals are signed 9 and 10 months in advance. When did Sexton sign his IRFU contract last year? Wasn't it in September or October or something? We are practically at that stage now, he may have signed the deal some time ago but given there are 10 months until he comes here why should something go wrong?

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2015 4:53pm

bilston wrote: »

Plenty of deals are signed 9 and 10 months in advance. When did Sexton sign his IRFU contract last year? Wasn't it in September or October or something? We are practically at that stage now, he may have signed the deal some time ago but given there are 10 months until he comes here why should something go wrong?

The Sexton deal was the earliest I can really remember in Irish rugby and even that was about half the length of time before this deal.

Anything can happen in 18 months. He could get severely injured. It could be even more bizarre than that, situations could change at home, he might impregnate some local. Who knows. 18 months is a very long time in rugby. Players and situations can change entirely in that amount of time, look at Will Genia.

I'm not saying anything will happen. I'm just saying skepticism is completely justified.

jacothelad · 30-08-2015 5:39pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The Sexton deal was the earliest I can really remember in Irish rugby and even that was about half the length of time before this deal.

Anything can happen in 18 months. He could get severely injured. It could be even more bizarre than that, situations could change at home, he might impregnate some local. Who knows. 18 months is a very long time in rugby. Players and situations can change entirely in that amount of time, look at Will Genia.

I'm not saying anything will happen. I'm just saying skepticism is completely justified.

Anything can happen in a split second. It doesn't take 18 months for a player to sustain an injury - just one second. He could be injured tying his shoe laces. He could have a car accident. His wife could fall for the milkman. He might decide to become a monk ffs. What a load of piffle about a contract. Completely unjustified claptrap.

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2015 5:43pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Anything can happen in a split second. It doesn't take 18 months for a player to sustain an injury - just one second. He could be injured tying his shoe laces. He could have a car accident. His wife could fall for the milkman. He might decide to become a monk ffs. What a load of piffle about a contract. Completely unjustified claptrap.

Strange point. A lot of seconds elapse in 18 months, if he's going to injure himself tying his shoe laces then he'll tie his shoes a lot more times over the extra season in the middle.

CatFromHue · 30-08-2015 5:54pm

I don't think it is piffle, I mean who's Piutau going to play for this season?

I did a search on Wasps website for his name and got 0 results and I don't remember anything official that he was signing a one year deal for them. I could be wrong of course.

His contract with Ulster starts on 1st July 2016 so that puts him signing for a different Super team after the Blues were blocked from signing him for the 2016 season
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/68707310/Charles-Piutau-blocked-from-Blues-next-year-to-avoid-dangerous-precedent-issue

Is his contract good enough from Ulster to let him not earn money this season?

damianmcr · 31-08-2015 3:31pm

Wasps this season.

CatFromHue · 31-08-2015 4:21pm

Has that been confirmed anywhere?

I heard the rumour but don't remember Wasps or Piutau confirming it.

Wasps did sign Frank Halai which may be confusing people.

bilston · 31-08-2015 4:28pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

Has that been confirmed anywhere?

I heard the rumour but don't remember Wasps or Piutau confirming it.

Wasps did sign Frank Halai which may be confusing people.

Don't think it is confirmed. It has been rumoured alright.

damianmcr · 31-08-2015 4:30pm

Havent seen anything confirmed but the source is very reliable.

irishbucsfan · 31-08-2015 4:39pm

I heard from a local in the know here* that it was a done deal ages back but it was never confirmed officially.

*Here being where Wasps used to live before they shipped up to tropical Coventry.

01-09-2015 8:50am

Ulster already have special dispensation for an extra NIQ player this season, don't think they'd get two extra spots!

jacothelad · 01-09-2015 10:00am

Deleted User wrote: »

Ulster already have special dispensation for an extra NIQ player this season, don't think they'd get two extra spots!

I agree although in mitigation, the extra contract was agreed before they changed the rules on NIQ/Es.

bilston · 01-09-2015 10:49am

So now we know what we have available to us for the next 8 weeks or so.

FB - Ludik, Gilroy, Nelson
Wings - Trimble, Gilroy, Scholes, Nelson, Stockdale
Centres - Marshall, McCloskey, Arnold, Ludik, Stockdale
Out Halves - Humphreys, Windsor
Scrum Halves - Marshall, Rowley, Shanahan

Props - Black, Herbst, Warwick, Lutton, Ross, Murphy, McCall
Hookers - Herring, Andrew, Jackson
Locks - Van Der Merwe, Tuohy, O'Connor, Browne
Back Row - Diack, Faloon, Ross, Reidy, Williams, Wilson, Browne, Joyce, Taggart

Some good, some bad. You can pick a decent 1st XV out of that. Some dodgy depth beneath it though.

Redsock · 01-09-2015 1:30pm

bilston wrote: »

So now we know what we have available to us for the next 8 weeks or so.

FB - Ludik, Gilroy, Nelson
Wings - Trimble, Gilroy, Scholes, Nelson, Stockdale
Centres - Marshall, McCloskey, Arnold, Ludik, Stockdale
Out Halves - Humphreys, Windsor
Scrum Halves - Marshall, Rowley, Shanahan

Props - Black, Herbst, Warwick, Lutton, Ross, Murphy, McCall
Hookers - Herring, Andrew, Jackson
Locks - Van Der Merwe, Tuohy, O'Connor, Browne
Back Row - Diack, Faloon, Ross, Reidy, Williams, Wilson, Browne, Joyce, Taggart

Some good, some bad. You can pick a decent 1st XV out of that. Some dodgy depth beneath it though.

The very bad is that we are one or 2 injuries away from having to field an AIL standard back row.

awec · 03-09-2015 12:13pm

  Ulster team & replacements to play Ospreys, Guinness PRO12, Kingspan Stadium, Friday 3rd September (19:35 kick off):
(15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, L Marshall, S McCloskey, C Gilroy, P Nelson, P Marshall; (1-8): A Warwick, R Herring (Captain), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F Van der Merwe, R Wilson, W Faloon, N Williams; Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, R Lutton, B Ross, P Browne, C Ross, S Reidy, D Shanahan, S Arnold.

Trimble starts.

Nelson at 10. No 10 cover on the bench. Oh dear.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 03-09-2015 12:16pm

Marshall is your 10 cover I'd say

postitnote · 03-09-2015 12:19pm

An exciting enough 11-15. I just hope our half backs can get the ball to them.
Am i right to think Nelson has played 10 at no higher than AIL?

awec · 03-09-2015 12:21pm

1-8 is good enough. 11-15 is very good.

9 and 10 the obvious weak spot.

Bench is worth fcuk all, Arnold aside. Where is Alan O'Connor? And Diack.

bilston · 03-09-2015 1:08pm

It is what it is at 10, we are down to our 4th choice out half, it's just the way it is.

I like the rest of the team though, Paul Marshall needs a big game though.

The bench isn't very experienced though.

Looking forward to the new season!

bilston · 03-09-2015 1:09pm

postitnote wrote: »

Am i right to think Nelson has played 10 at no higher than AIL?

Probably, unless he has played there for the Ravens.

blackdog1 · 03-09-2015 1:11pm

I would have thought Ludik would be an able 10 myself. Good passer and kicker and has experience of playing at a high level for a long time. Ulster pack us good but can't see them beating up that ospreys pack to compensate for the half backs....

mfceiling · 03-09-2015 6:43pm

postitnote wrote: »

An exciting enough 11-15. I just hope our half backs can get the ball to them.
Am i right to think Nelson has played 10 at no higher than AIL?

Nelson played full back for Dungannon. Never togged out at 10 as far as I know. Shows ulster's strength in depth that he's covering 10 despite little or no experience playing there.

mogwai81 · 03-09-2015 8:36pm

I take it Sean O'Hagan has left the academy

bilston · 03-09-2015 8:51pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Nelson played full back for Dungannon. Never togged out at 10 as far as I know. Shows ulster's strength in depth that he's covering 10 despite little or no experience playing there.

Personally I'd have played Luke at 10 and brought young Arnold into the midfield. Marshall has definitely got experience at 10 for Ballymena.

case885 · 03-09-2015 9:04pm

awec wrote:

â€¨Ulster team & replacements to play Ospreys, Guinness PRO12, Kingspan Stadium, Friday 3rd September (19:35 kick off): (15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, L Marshall, S McCloskey, C Gilroy, P Nelson, P Marshall; (1-8): A Warwick, R Herring (Captain), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F Van der Merwe, R Wilson, W Faloon, N Williams; Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, R Lutton, B Ross, P Browne, C Ross, S Reidy, D Shanahan, S Arnold.

Gilroy is really out to impress playing both wings

jacothelad · 03-09-2015 11:16pm

â€¨Ulster team & replacements to play Ospreys, Guinness PRO12, Kingspan Stadium, Friday 3rd September (19:35 kick off): (15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, L Marshall, S McCloskey, C Gilroy, P Nelson, P Marshall; (1-8): A Warwick, R Herring (Captain), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F Van der Merwe, R Wilson, W Faloon, N Williams; Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, R Lutton, B Ross, P Browne, C Ross, S Reidy, D Shanahan, S Arnold.

That's shocking. They have Trimble and Jackson available but not in the team, no backrow subs worth a shyt, a sub hooker who is far from the required standard so far, no loose head prop on the bench and Shanahan seems to have escaped between the floor boards from the cast of the Borrowers. Ruaridh Murphy is fit. Since neither of the two tight heads are worth a used crisp packet as t.h.s, I would suspect as loose heads they will be in the Beano and Dandy category there. I suspect a hoking is on it's way.

irishbucsfan · 04-09-2015 7:35am

Ospreys team:

15 Dan Evans
14 Kristian Phillips
13 Jonathan Spratt
12 Ben John
11 Tom Grabham
10 Sam Davies
9 Tom Habberfield

1 Marc Thomas
2 Sam Parry
3 Dmitri Arhip
4 Lloyd Ashley (Capt)
5 De Kock Steenkamp
6 Joe Bearman
7 Lloyd Evans
8 Gareth Delve

REPLACEMENTS
16 Scott Otten
17 Nicky Smith
18 Cai Griffiths
19 Rory Thornton
20 Dan Baker
21 Sam Underhill
22 Brendon Leonard
23 Ashley Beck

Dan Baker and Rory Thornton on the bench are good young forwards, both were in the Welsh training side for their world cup preperations.

Their halfbacks of Habberfield and Davies are far better than what Ulster have available, likely to be the difference imo

bilston · 04-09-2015 7:44am

jacothelad wrote: »

â€¨Ulster team & replacements to play Ospreys, Guinness PRO12, Kingspan Stadium, Friday 3rd September (19:35 kick off): (15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, L Marshall, S McCloskey, C Gilroy, P Nelson, P Marshall; (1-8): A Warwick, R Herring (Captain), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F Van der Merwe, R Wilson, W Faloon, N Williams; Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, R Lutton, B Ross, P Browne, C Ross, S Reidy, D Shanahan, S Arnold.

That's shocking. They have Trimble and Jackson available but not in the team, no backrow subs worth a shyt, a sub hooker who is far from the required standard so far, no loose head prop on the bench and Shanahan seems to have escaped between the floor boards from the cast of the Borrowers. Ruaridh Murphy is fit. Since neither of the two tight heads are worth a used crisp packet as t.h.s, I would suspect as loose heads they will be in the Beano and Dandy category there. I suspect a hoking is on it's way.

Trimble is playing, the team above is a typo, agree Jackson should be playing though.

The bench is a worry, although personally I think is a smidgen better but he is still hardly going to strike fear into the Ospreys. I've only seen Andrew play a couple of times and I thought he looked decent, I can only go on what I've seen and those who have seen more of him may have different opinion.

Maybe I'm in a good mood because it's Friday but I'm a bit more optimistic that we will do ok tonight. I don't expect a honking anyway!

Edit - looking at the Ospreys team, they do have a significant advantage at 10. Sam Davies is a class act.

Buer · 04-09-2015 7:47am

bilston wrote: »

Personally I'd have played Luke at 10 and brought young Arnold into the midfield. Marshall has definitely got experience at 10 for Ballymena.

Has played there for Ballymena, the Ravens and Irish underage.

postitnote · 04-09-2015 7:47am

Is there some rule, now that the world cup squads are finalised, that prohibits club teams from playing anyone in the world cup squad?

bilston · 04-09-2015 5:41pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34131691

New online Ulster rugby magazine above.

The Elk · 04-09-2015 6:04pm

jacothelad wrote: »

no backrow subs worth a shyt, a sub hooker who is far from the required standard so far, no loose head prop on the bench and Shanahan seems to have escaped between the floor boards from the cast of the Borrowers. Ruaridh Murphy is fit. Since neither of the two tight heads are worth a used crisp packet as t.h.s, I would suspect as loose heads they will be in the Beano and Dandy category there. I suspect a hoking is on it's way.

Makes you wonder why they spent so much money on one player - Charles Piutau.

jacothelad · 04-09-2015 11:05pm

The Elk wrote: »

Makes you wonder why they spent so much money on one player - Charles Piutau.

Well, they haven't spent a penny on him yet. July 2016 before he arrives but yes, we don't 'need' him and we do need some decent back row players. I suppose after this season there will be a lot of movement in rugby players. With the way things are panning out in S.A. I wouldn't be surprised to see a mass exodus. Sadly Ulster won't be in a position to sign anyone afaik.

Herbst is the Project
Ludik may be sacrificed for C.P.
F.V.D.M. is out of contract this season. We need him to re-sign or someone like him.
Pienaar is still here next season.
Williams will be gone I'm sure.

Wilson is getting on.
Diack is o.k. - at some things and is a great second row when needed.
Williams, fit and well is worth his place but I doubt he will be here next season.
Henry is top notch and has a season or two left at the top.
Faloon is o.k. but too small.
Henderson.... great

Ross and Reidy would need to have been force fed the stem cells that make a rugby player during the summer. Up to now they have been McComishesque.

irishbucsfan · 05-09-2015 7:58am

With this ever-growing list of talent in the centers in Ulster surely it would be madness for the provinces not to arrange some sort of move to get them game time.

Down in Leinster we have a lack of depth at 12 while we have more 7s than we can give game time to. In Ulster the opposite is true. When SOB and Jordi Murphy come back what are Leavy and Van Der Flier going to do with themselves? Those guys are good enough to start Champions Cup games imo. The short term answer to Ulster's back row problems surely lies in Dublin, someone like Dom Ryan could reinvent himself in Belfast as well with consistent game time.

Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

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