Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

The Lost Sheep

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Do not see that myself. Why would premiership teams be sniffing after him? Sam Arnold turned down the H'Quins academy to go to Ulster to play for Ireland U20's. He still is U20 and will play for Ireland next year as well, why would he give that up and go to England? He is a good player and is in the Irish system, why would he change?

He has shown that he wants to play for Ireland by coming here, make no sense to me to change when he has another year of age grade rugby left. In two or three years time maybe they would look at him as he is English born, but not when he is 19.

Arnold is English qualified. EPS space, funding etc. He has a lot of guys ahead of him in Ulster and there is many reasons why English clubs would look at him.

bilston

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Do not see that myself. Why would premiership teams be sniffing after him? Sam Arnold turned down the H'Quins academy to go to Ulster to play for Ireland U20's. He still is U20 and will play for Ireland next year as well, why would he give that up and go to England? He is a good player and is in the Irish system, why would he change?

He has shown that he wants to play for Ireland by coming here, make no sense to me to change when he has another year of age grade rugby left. In two or three years time maybe they would look at him as he is English born, but not when he is 19.

I'm not saying Arnold would want to go back to England but he still qualifies for them and any Premiership club scout worth his salt would know that.

Ulster apparently giving him a development contract shows how much they value him. It is probably Ulster being pro-active.

RobbieRuns

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Arnold is English qualified. EPS space, funding etc. He has a lot of guys ahead of him in Ulster and there is many reasons why English clubs would look at him.

I know there are plenty of reasons why they would look at him especially as,he is EQP, but my point is why would he change now? He has another year in Irish 20's and would be one of the leading lights next year. He would be daft to move now, he has shown that he wants to play here, there is no chance of him moving no matter who is sniffing around.

of course any premiership team would know of him, he went to school in England after all. My point was that he would have been offered a development contract on his ability and performances, not because of English teams trying to attract him. In a few years it might be a problem but not now, not at this time. He is still a prospect, a great prospect but that is all.

irishbucsfan

RobbieRuns wrote: »

I know there are plenty of reasons why they would look at him especially as,he is EQP, but my point is why would he change now? He has another year in Irish 20's and would be one of the leading lights next year. He would be daft to move now, he has shown that he wants to play here, there is no chance of him moving no matter who is sniffing around.

of course any premiership team would know of him, he went to school in England after all. My point was that he would have been offered a development contract on his ability and performances, not because of English teams trying to attract him. In a few years it might be a problem but not now, not at this time. He is still a prospect, a great prospect but that is all.

It would hardly be the first case of academy level players being given senior contracts because of interest from other teams, supposedly the same happened with Fitzgerald when he came out of Blackrock.

It's not a case of why would he move either, he probably has no real intention of moving, but if he got an offer that was considerably better than an academy contract (which are not particularly lucrative) then it changes things quite dramatically. I'm very happy at my job but if someone offered me a multiple of my salary...

Hagz

He might as well be promoted. Not to sound harsh or anything, but the ravens are really muck, and I don't think a player of his quality has all that much to gain training alongside the academy boys.
I don't think the promotion means much anyway. The likes of Garry Ringrose and Ross Molony were brought up at the tail end of the season in Leinster to train with the senior squad. This is the same thing except they've made it permanent.

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There's also often some negotiation involved with these things, like when Butler went straight onto a development contract with Munster the rumour was that he had been approached by other who offered him pro deals. It could be that with Arnold being English that he had interest from the AP and Ulster decided to give him the senior contract to ensure they hang on to him.

That makes sense but also having seen him in action I think it's more likely because he is big enough and highly talented. With regard to injuries to 'young' players, remember that Luke Marshall was already an international when he suffered 4 successive and quite severe blows to the head. His concussions are down to bad luck and his personal biology, not playing at senior level from a relatively young age.

Stuart Olding's injuries could have happened in an AIL game or an U20 game. The fact that they happened playing for the Ravenspans in the last minute of injury time and the first minute of an Ulster game are purely coincidental. It had nothing to do with his age imo. Are we saying that players become less susceptible to injury as they get older. That would fly in the face of the facts and experience. All of us who have stopped playing remember how as we got older, no matter how hard we tried to keep fit, that injuries increase, collagen becomes less forgiving, ligaments and tendons twange and twinge and tear more easily etc. When we were young, things healed more easily and quickly. I understand that it would usually be mad to throw an 18 year old in to the front row. (The only one I can remember was Frederico Mendez)

I actually think that some players are bulking up too much to the detriment of their well being but that is a different story.

It has always been claimed that rugby - at least in the amateur game - is a game for all shapes and sizes. This is becoming less so at the top end and more and more at the higher end of the amateur game. Guys like Keith Crossan, Alan Clarke, Iain McLauchlin, Fergus Slattery would be very unlikely to get a game. Stu. McCloskey and Chris Farrell are probably bigger or at least more muscular than WJ McBride was when he was first capped - at 6'5" and 15 and a half stones. There was a time when BOD at 5'10" weighed in at the same.

I think some guys are lucky and some are notwhen it comes to injury.

.ak

total former wrote: »

It's not just an Ulster problem. Leinster fast-tracked Conway and Macken with terrible results. Munster gave Nagle a pro contract on the back of one game and an alleged offer from Northampton, that was a shocking call too. Go back even earlier to Luke Fitz, a Leinster regular at the age of 19.

People often complain we're too slow to give youth a chance but the recent history might make you think otherwise.

It's an interesting point.

To balance the argument, is there any guys that were fast tracked that have been doing well and been mostly injury free?

total former

.ak wrote: »

It's an interesting point.

To balance the argument, is there any guys that were fast tracked that have been doing well and been mostly injury free?

None spring to mind really. Marmion?

smiley_face

.ak wrote: »

It's an interesting point.

To balance the argument, is there any guys that were fast tracked that have been doing well and been mostly injury free?

Would Peter O'Mahony count, even though not a back?

shuffol

Gilroy

bilston

shuffol wrote: »

Gilroy

Gilroy had a hamstring problems a year or so ago but that can happen to any winger or outside back at anytime. Remember BOD had a real hammy problems when he was about 27/28.

Jaco makes a great point about Olding, his first ACL injury was playing for the Ravens, the second happened in a fairly innocous incident at the start of the game against Cardiff. A lot of these injuries could happen to anyone at anytime. Put another it isn't just the young players getting injured.

Touch wood but am I right in thinking Henshaw has remained relatively injury free up to now?

Other than Henshaw has any of the current Ireland 1st XV been injury free in the last 2 or 3 years?

bessiem8

bilston wrote: »

Gilroy had a hamstring problems a year or so ago but that can happen to any winger or outside back at anytime. Remember BOD had a real hammy problems when he was about 27/28.

Jaco makes a great point about Olding, his first ACL injury was playing for the Ravens, the second happened in a fairly innocous incident at the start of the game against Cardiff. A lot of these injuries could happen to anyone at anytime. Put another it isn't just the young players getting injured.

Touch wood but am I right in thinking Henshaw has remained relatively injury free up to now?

Other than Henshaw has any of the current Ireland 1st XV been injury free in the last 2 or 3 years?

Toner.

Olding/Farrell both debuted at 18 and both had severe ACL problems. Both are very different size wise. Most of the 1st XV all debuted very early in the careers.

emmet02

Heaslip too. Freakishly so.

Rugby is an attritional game though. Players get hurt.

Tox56

Healy came through very young and did well with injuries for a long time. Not doing so well now but that could be down to any number of other things

bilston

Tox56 wrote: »

Healy came through very young and did well with injuries for a long time. Not doing so well now but that could be down to any number of other things

Healy's problems seem to have started on the Lions tour.

Sometimes one injury can lead to others because players over compensate with their rehab.

shuffol

bilston wrote: »

Gilroy had a hamstring problems a year or so ago but that can happen to any winger or outside back at anytime. Remember BOD had a real hammy problems when he was about 27/28.

Gilroy has played 107 times for Ulster at the age of 24. That's some going.

bilston

shuffol wrote: »

Gilroy has played 107 times for Ulster at the age of 24. That's some going.

Especially when he hasn't even been first choice for a lot of that time. If he stays at Ulster for life and injures aren't too unkind to him then he will probably reach 300 caps.

jacothelad

bilston wrote: »

Especially when he hasn't even been first choice for a lot of that time. If he stays at Ulster for life and injures aren't too unkind to him then he will probably reach 300 caps.

Sadly for Gilroy he has yet to master the ability to not score tries in an international class way. If only he would stop scoring his career might take an upward turn.......:D:D:D

awec

jacothelad wrote: »

Sadly for Gilroy he has yet to master the ability to not score tries in an international class way. If only he would stop scoring his career might take an upward turn.......:D:D:D

Gilroy scored the same number of tries last season as Luke Fitzgerald has scored in the past 5 seasons added together.

In that time Fitzgerald has made 76 Leinster appearances and Gilroy has been named in 96 Ulster squads (can't figure out his actual appearances cause the new Ulster site sucks and the pro12 site excludes europe).

Interesting stat.

jacothelad

awec wrote: »

Gilroy scored the same number of tries last season as Luke Fitzgerald has scored in the past 5 seasons added together.

In that time Fitzgerald has made 76 Leinster appearances and Gilroy has been named in 96 Ulster squads (can't figure out his actual appearances cause the new Ulster site sucks and the pro12 site excludes europe).

Interesting stat.

Time for a bit of a wind up.
Yes but Luke doesn't score beautifully so it doesn't matter in his case. He does all the other things a winger is supposed to do so well that not scoring is a sort of a bonus.:D:D:D:D Anyway, we know he can score. Didn't he get 3 of those 13 tries in one game v. Saints and he has scored a try against Zebre this season in his 17 games and 2 against them last season. In fact 4 of his 13 have come against them. They must hate him. Still, he can also fail to score as a 13 so he's consistent.....;);) Poor old Darren Cave blotted his copybook this season by scoring 8 tries. If only he could not score in a more attractive manner. He also scored 5 last season. There's that dratted 13 number again. He'll have to stop if he wants to get anywhere.

This is all very unfair. It's not as if old slowcoach Cave has been playing in Europe's top team for the last 5 years.
There's more to rugby than scoring........isn't there?????

.ak

True, and Gilroy has never lost to the All Blacks.

Now that's an interesting stat.

jacothelad

.ak wrote: »

True, and Gilroy has never lost to the All Blacks.

Now that's an interesting stat.

Or had Wales score 3 tries after he was subbed off....:D:D

.ak

jacothelad wrote: »

Time for a bit of a wind up.
Yes but Luke doesn't score beautifully so it doesn't matter in his case. He does all the other things a winger is supposed to do so well that not scoring is a sort of a bonus.:D:D:D:D Anyway, we know he can score. Didn't he get 3 of those 13 tries in one game v. Saints and he has scored a try against Zebre this season in his 17 games and 2 against them last season. In fact 4 of his 13 have come against them. They must hate him. Still, he can also fail to score as a 13 so he's consistent.....;);) Poor old Darren Cave blotted his copybook this season by scoring 8 tries. If only he could not score in a more attractive manner. He also scored 5 last season. There's that dratted 13 number again. He'll have to stop if he wants to get anywhere.

This is all very unfair. It's not as if old slowcoach Cave has been playing in Europe's top team for the last 5 years.
There's more to rugby than scoring........isn't there?????

jacothelad

.ak wrote: »

:D:D:D

jm08

awec wrote: »

Gilroy scored the same number of tries last season as Luke Fitzgerald has scored in the past 5 seasons added together.

In that time Fitzgerald has made 76 Leinster appearances and Gilroy has been named in 96 Ulster squads (can't figure out his actual appearances cause the new Ulster site sucks and the pro12 site excludes europe).

Interesting stat.

Gilroy's stats for last 5 seasons for Ulster in both comps.

107 games (91 starts), 27 tries, 2 Yellow cards.

edit: it should be 33 tries. I left out 6 European ones.

A useful website here
http://www.itsrugby.co.uk/player-22231.html

bilston

jm08 wrote: »

Gilroy's stats for last 5 seasons for Ulster in both comps.

107 games (91 starts), 27 tries, 2 Yellow cards.

A useful website here
http://www.itsrugby.co.uk/player-22231.html

What! You mean to say he has no red cards to his name! And he calls himself an Ulsterman!!

Edit - And don't think I don't know your game with that link jm08!!! Subtle

jacothelad

jm08 wrote: »

Gilroy's stats for last 5 seasons for Ulster in both comps.

107 games (91 starts), 27 tries, 2 Yellow cards.

A useful website here
http://www.itsrugby.co.uk/player-22231.html

That's a good site. Plenty of info.

jm08

bilston wrote: »

What! You mean to say he has no red cards to his name! And he calls himself an Ulsterman!!

Edit - And don't think I don't know your game with that link jm08!!! Subtle

Definately something wrong that he doesn't have a RC!

emmet02

Mike McCormish scored more tries v Toulon than Sean O'Brien.

Time to get him in the Ireland squad!

awec

The Euro fixtures have been confirmed. Back to back game against Toulouse.

Round 1:
Oyonnax v Ulster, Saturday 14th November, 14:00, Stade Charles Mathon

Round 2:
Ulster v Saracens, Friday 20th November, 19:45, Kingspan Stadium

Round 3:
Ulster v Toulouse, Friday 11th December, 19:45, Kingspan Stadium

Round 4:
Toulouse v Ulster, Sunday 20th December, 14:00, Stade Ernest Wallon

Round 5:
Saracens v Ulster, 15/16/17 January, Allianz Park

Round 6:
Ulster v Oyonnax, 22/23/24 January, Kingspan Stadium