Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

M4 toll VAT increase

Options
2»

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    Lance Vance wrote: »
    The toll rates have not yet been reduced for 2010 even though the VAT rate has been reduced and the consumer price index is negative.
    The Toll Rates calculation method referred may prevent rates being reduced. In addition I read that the govt must pay compensation to the toll operator if the traffic volumes are not high enough.

    One cannot help but get the impression that the fellows negotiating these contracts on behalf of private companies were quite clever and the government ministers/senior civil servants on the other side of the table were not the sharpest tools in the box.


  • Options
    #33
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    One cannot help but get the impression that the fellows negotiating these contracts on behalf of private companies were quite clever and the government ministers/senior civil servants on the other side of the table were not the sharpest tools in the box.

    Au contraire JHMEG,the well concealed details of these Toll Facility "contract negotiations" simple don`t allow for any real public scrutiny (Our function being solely to pay the damn things).

    Therefore in the deliberately engineered absence of factual data,we cannot therefore be taken to task when we (The Public) draw our own conclusions from the actions being taken by The Minister for Transport and his officials to keep the actual Toll Facility financial arrangements secret at all costs.

    It took the efforts of Sen.Shane Ross to tease out the shoddy and financially dubious (to those bearing the actual cost) arrangements surrounding the Westlink Buy-Out and particularly the incredible ORIGINAL agreement entered into with the Roche family owned National Toll Roads.

    Since Sen Ross`s success in pulling back the heavy drapes,(an act which still REALLY enrages many high ranking Civil Servants of the era) the current crop of dubious shady Government Ministers are far more circumspect in their arrangements.

    However it is still quite obvious that Minister Dempsey`s staunch defence of the secrecy clause (commercially sensitive information my backside) which is now standard in Toll Facility negotiations may well verge on challengable in the courts.

    It also should be borne in mind that Minister Dempsey is simultaneously active in restricting and reducing what could be viable Public Transport options operating along the non-toll routes...One 53 seater coach paying a single toll...or a potential 53 cars paying 53 tolls....even Homer Simpson could do that math and get it right !!!

    It`s basically asset stripping and trousering the profits...works every time !


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Options
    #34
    Lance Vance
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Lance Vance


    JHMEG wrote: »
    The Toll Rates calculation method referred may prevent rates being reduced.

    In the event of deflation the toll can not be raised but the toll operator has the option to reduce the toll according to the M4 bye-laws. The toll company has chosen not to reduce most of its tolls.


    Quote from M4 bye-laws 'In the event of the current Consumer Price Index in use remaining static or showing a decrease on the previous year’s figures in any year the Appropriate Tolls shall be fixed by the Toll Company but shall not exceed the Maximum Tolls fixed in the previous year'


    http://www.nra.ie/PublicPrivatePartnership/TollingDocumentation/file,2845,en.pdf
    [FONT=&quot][/FONT]


  • Options
    #35
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    but the m4 toll people say that every year the cpi is applied. unless it goes down....

    Does anyone know what the base price ex vat is?


  • Options
    #36
    Tarabuses
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Tarabuses


    Lance Vance wrote: »
    In the event of deflation the toll can not be raised but the toll operator has the option to reduce the toll according to the M4 bye-laws. The toll company has chosen not to reduce most of its tolls.


    Quote from M4 bye-laws 'In the event of the current Consumer Price Index in use remaining static or showing a decrease on the previous year’s figures in any year the Appropriate Tolls shall be fixed by the Toll Company but shall not exceed the Maximum Tolls fixed in the previous year'


    http://www.nra.ie/PublicPrivatePartnership/TollingDocumentation/file,2845,en.pdf
    [FONT=&quot][/FONT]

    If the CPI "increases" next year to its original level are they allowed to increase the toll even if, over the two year period, the CPI is unchanged?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    My understanding is that they are not. it's the index with respect to some baseline year.
    If the vat reduction brings them below the threshold they definitely need to reduce the price.


  • Options
    #38
    Tarabuses
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Tarabuses


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    My understanding is that they are not. it's the index with respect to some baseline year.
    If the vat reduction brings them below the threshold they definitely need to reduce the price.

    They were quick enough to increase the toll following the VAT hike so why the delay in reducing it (see very start of this thread)?


Advertisement