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The sad thing about the election . .
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Under FF "governance" we have now got a huge number of unemployed and the reliance on at least 1,000 to emigrate each week so that their financial forecasts work out.1. People will lose their jobs. I know my sister will lose hers as a member of the FF press team. While I am glad that the people of Ireland (Dubs in particular) have given FF a lesson in accountability, its no harm sharing a thought for the people who have worked hard and will now lose their jobs simply because those in power let them down aswell.
In the last two years we have seen very little productive efforts from FF in terms of job creation. Christ, Mary Coughlan was assigned this role only to have the likes of Michael Dell refuse to even see her.
And I should feel sorry for some FF spin doctors?
I saw no humility and don't recall seeing any humility from a FF member in a long liong time.2. Watching some of the FF candidates on TV (just watched Carey there) show the kind of humility that was seriously lacking the last 10 or so years is really sad. Not because I feel sorry for them, but its sad that its taken Annihilationfor them to figure out how to show the people that they are actually capable of being humble.
Anyhow, how much will they get?
If you sleep with dogs then you catch fleas. If they were honourable politicians with integrity then they wouldn't have stood by and endorsed the mess their party have created for us all.3. While people will be delighted that FF have been nearly destroyed, it is sad that some of their better back benchers (Thomas Byrne comes to mind) will not get re-elected for the damage their front bench did. I want good politicians in politics, not parties bound by outdated principles.
I agree. A leopard doesn't change their spots that easily.4. Its also sad that people still vote in the Independants who jumped the FF ship and somehow managed to get some sort of protection from the damage they did in power (and not treated the same way as FF backbenchers).
Don't assume that it is down to apathy.5. That around 30% of the population didnt bother to vote. Nobody knows what they think and they contributed little to helping us decide our next government. Shame on you . .
How much of the 30% is down to emigration?
How much is down to the fact that we still don't have a system that uses PPS numbers? Lots of people still are getting more than one ballot paper. There was a report during the week of a baby receiving their card.
True but what we have now is a start. People are not going to endorse the corruption, cronyism, lies and economic recklessness that we have seen from FF.The saddest thing is that nothing will change and we will continue to be governed by teachers and republicans, largely people that will be incompetent.
What have you done to have the workings of FF changed then?Hell, I am disgusted and dissalusioned with the decisions they have taken, but that doesnt mean I cant look at all the variables involved and at least try to be objective (then simply dismissive and judgemental).
Firstly, a quarter of gardai are on the take? Have you any form of source for this?If a quarter of the police are on the take, does it mean the whole police force is corrupt ? No, it means there is a significant amount of corruption in police. If you really think every FF member and politician represented corruption you are very ill informed. Of course you would hope that the good cops would root out and discourage the bad cops, but I wouldnt say they should all be sacked because they didnt do enough to clamp down on it !
Secondly, how many members of FF stood up and said that enough is enough with regard to the corruption?
Well its been said on air by a number of FF TDs in the past that they and FF come before the country. Its probably the same for FG and Lab but they have the tact not to tell everyone.I will support a party that puts the country ahead of its own personal gain . . It might be a time before I will be voting for a party (as opposed to candidate). .0 -
Under FF "governance" we have now got a huge number of unemployed and the reliance on at least 1,000 to emigrate each week so that their financial forecasts work out.
In the last two years we have seen very little productive efforts from FF in terms of job creation. Christ, Mary Coughlan was assigned this role only to have the likes of Michael Dell refuse to even see her.
And I should feel sorry for some FF spin doctors?
I saw no humility and don't recall seeing any humility from a FF member in a long liong time.
Anyhow, how much will they get?
If you sleep with dogs then you catch fleas. If they were honourable politicians with integrity then they wouldn't have stood by and endorsed the mess their party have created for us all.
I agree. A leopard doesn't change their spots that easily.
Don't assume that it is down to apathy.
How much of the 30% is down to emigration?
How much is down to the fact that we still don't have a system that uses PPS numbers? Lots of people still are getting more than one ballot paper. There was a report during the week of a baby receiving their card.
True but what we have now is a start. People are not going to endorse the corruption, cronyism, lies and economic recklessness that we have seen from FF.
What have you done to have the workings of FF changed then?
Firstly, a quarter of gardai are on the take? Have you any form of source for this?
Secondly, how many members of FF stood up and said that enough is enough with regard to the corruption?
Well its been said on air by a number of FF TDs in the past that they and FF come before the country. Its probably the same for FG and Lab but they have the tact not to tell everyone.
You have to understand humility to recognise it. Congradulating the victors is humble.
I didnt ask you to feel sorry for anybody. Empathy is something people just have, you dont have to ask for it. You can tell the kind of person somebody is when they think they need to be asked to feel sorry for somebody . .
Since you struggle to understand the principle of my policy, I am saying everybody who can vote, should vote. If you live abroad and feel you have nothing to contribute , you should cancel your registry. If you have a good reason for not being able to vote, then fair enough, but most people just dont bother.
I never said a quarter of police were corrupt. Once again I have to ask you to understand a post before replying will ill informed waffle.
In terms of who in FF stood up to the corruption, you are correct but this is a problem with the political culture within politics. How long did Labour wait to call no confidence in JOD ? And at that they didnt even want to.
Its remarkable how people think that all FFrs are hateful people when nearly all TDs from all parties get on . . Why ? Because they work in the same environment and know the hypocracy of ill informed attitudes/opinions like yours. Obviously voting in an alternative to FF simply because you hate them is kind of pointless if the very people you vote in, will engage and actually get on with the same people you dispise . .
If you are looking for everybody to be accountable , you need look no further then the many Labour and FG councellors that rezoned land for development that had as much to do with the bubble (Im sure some got a few quid in their back pockets) as anything else. Dont let the door hit you on the way out of your glasshouse . .0 -
It is sad that people will lose their job as a result, but to be fair, under Enda Kenny, a lot of public servants may lose their jobs too (and I am not entering into the bloated PS debate). I feel sorry for your sister, but it's not her fault, it's the fault of those she worked for. I hope she finds something soon (being in a similar position - unemployed due to FF incompetence - I do honestly understand how it feels)
The only other comment I have on your OP, which is quite true, is that 30% who didn't vote - nowhere near as simple as people not just turning out.I can only imagine how many of the 30% are emigrants.And there are a small minority that intended to vote, but circumstance - work/sickness, whatever prevented them.To say nothing of the fact that this is the mid-term and I'd imagine there are quite a number of people on holidays.And then there is the small minority who just didn't bother.
The turn out for this election was actually very good.It's heartening to see.0 -
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Drumpot,
We don't need a lecture from a FF supporter about 'empathy' after the greedy way in which they have run the country over the past 14 years. I didn't see much 'empathy' from FF for the people lying on trollies in the hospitals last week or the 50,000 who emigrated last year.
As for a 'spindoctor' losing her job, I have a lot more to worry about. I don't feel much 'empathy', either, with fat cat bankers, developers, and FF TDs who ruined this country ... just as they didn't have much 'empathy' for the ordinary people of Ireland when they were flying their helicopters to that tent at the Galway Races.0 -
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I am not in favour of all and sundry getting a vote based on their Irish citizenship.
I am in favour of people (yes, like myself) who have been on the electoral register (and in my case voted in every election and referendum until leaving Ireland) of continuing to have an input into the running of their country.
We could tie it to having a PPS number and having at least paid tax in the RoI at some point. This would prevent the Irish citizens who have never lived in the RoI from voting.
Look, it's just how I feel. Am I more useful to Ireland on the dole or learning new skills (I work as a programmer in Germany having previously worked in electronics hardware) or sitting at home on the dole moping? (I understand that not everyone can leave as easily as me and I'm not having a dig at the unemployed).
Ireland would have sunk into the Atlantic in the 50's and 80's if it wasn't for all the dosh sent back to the septic Isle from emigrants working abroad. These people were largely forgotten by the state. I propose that if the emigrants of the 80s etc. had been able to vote, they'd have seen the trainwreck headed down the tracks a lot more clearly than those of us in Ireland who apparently did not and returned FF to power again and again with their fundamentally flawed policy of a property dependent boom.
I would tie emigrants to voting in their last previous constituency on a practical level.
I would agree with a five year limit on extending the vote to emigrants.
A Primetime program recently had people 35 years and 16 years in the UK moaning they wanted a vote - eh, no.
5 years or so sounds acceptable to me0 -
I don't feel much 'empathy', either, with fat cat bankers, developers, and FF TDs who ruined this country ... just as they didn't have much 'empathy' for the ordinary people of Ireland when they were flying their helicopters to that tent at the Galway Races.
According to the news, Enda flew by helicopter to Dublin this evening for a celebratory get together of FG helpers (as well as apppear on the news).
Looks like he's getting used to the high life now its his turn!!! :pac:0 -
If a quarter of the police are on the take, does it mean the whole police force is corrupt ? No, it means there is a significant amount of corruption in police. If you really think every FF member and politician represented corruption you are very ill informed. Of course you would hope that the good cops would root out and discourage the bad cops, but I wouldnt say they should all be sacked because they didnt do enough to clamp down on it !
Your analogy has one serious flaw. It doesn't equate to a scenario in which those who supposedly object to corruption get a chance to vote against that corruption.Your attitude is similar to that of "you are either with or against me" in that you cannot properly debate the flaws in your logic. You think that either you are with FF or against them.
Complete tosh. I don't give a crap WHO we're talking about. You are either with corruption and incompetence or against it.
It appears to be FF who jump on the defensive and assume that anyone who recognises and points out their flaws is "agin dem".
If FG prove to be as incompetent and corrupt, then I will be 100% consistent.
So there's no flaw or bias in my logic.Other partys do have the same kind of politicians you protest that you hate. I saw some of them in my constituancy, but I didnt think I wouldnt vote for their party because they only represent a portion of their party.
"A portion", eh ? In the next sentence you admit that corruption rose to the top of FF practically unchallenged.FF have been in power too long and the people at the top of the FF ladder were the ones who did 99% of the damage and cronyist action (because they were in a position to do so)
Agreed. Which makes me wonder how people of that mindset get to the top unchallenged, and which reflects on the party as a whole.You can bet that backbenchers were the ones on the ground trying to implement change. While you would say that they should of just quit FF, that is too easy a position to take. If you support a party (I dont understand it personally), I imagine that its like supporting a team.
It should be nothing like "supporting a team". You join a group or party because they have the same ethos as you. Like yourself, I see nothing appealing about blind, blinkered loyalty....someone has to earn trust and respect.If your team do well, you dont abandon them, you try to fix them, make them better.
Really ? Do you have the same view of the Catholic Church, for example ? How do you "fix" what they did, and how do you show your anger at that agenda, except by leaving.What has happened is that politicians in all parties have grown accustomed to telling their members how things will role when it should be the other way around. If there is one criticism I would certainly give to FF supporters , its that you never held your own people accountable for letting the people of Ireland down.
At least we agree on something. And given the results, that is why it is unforgiveable.
If someone gives a drunk the keys of a car, and then doesn't think twice about that, and they make it home, you think less of them.
If they kill someone or wreck their future, their responsiblity - and people's resulting reactions - increases exponentially.0 -
I'd like to actually try and give some FF some compassion, but I can't, despite the fact I'm very much in that mood, sure they've lined their pockets longer than I've been in employment not to be down to their last penny.
If anyone in FF is showing any regret, humility or anything that is related to acceptance of what they have done, it is only for the International News Agencies and commentators who are following this closely and have been commenting on the debates that I've been reading.
there are some members of FF I could almost call human, but the sad fact that has been revealed is that I doubt anyone of them have a shred of dignity or respect to actually FEEL BAD that this country's a wreck, and to hold their hands up and accept the responsibility. Brian Cowen is the only one who actually did last night, but in debates Michael Martin was very reluctant to take any share of the blame or responsibility.
As for those working the campaign trail with FF, says it all really imo.
but people are going to lose jobs, people already have lost jobs, people can't get jobs, personally tragic for your personal situation and that I can show some compassion on that, but none for FF from me in those losing jobs. I had been talking to a relative who had been working closely with a local FF TD on their housing situation and they saw one of them as the good guys as he actually helped. When asked why he did not leave FF, it basically came down to not have the courage or will to stand as an Ind.0 -
1. People will lose their jobs. I know my sister will lose hers as a member of the FF press team. While I am glad that the people of Ireland (Dubs in particular) have given FF a lesson in accountability, its no harm sharing a thought for the people who have worked hard and will now lose their jobs simply because those in power let them down aswell.
Are you suggesting we never seek change for fear of job losses? With every FF job lost a new job will be gained, where necessary hopefully, with the new Government. Since FF caused misery in so many lives, I have little sympathy for any of their candidates tonight, I'm sure they'll survive. It's not like one of them ever did anything for my constituency anyway, perhaps the new Government will make a change, one can only hope.
Nothing could be worse than FF in power.
This day is a memorable one for the country, though, perhaps in the future, if they alter policies and come back when the country is in a rather different state, I may vote for FF.0 -
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Empathy? It's the sheer neck of these corrupt FFers that got to me over the campaign. Going on about local issues which they hadn't a hope to pay for, as though the country wasn't bankrupt.
Micheal Martin screaming down Enda Kenny and accusing him of being a coward, as though he (Martin) had played no part in the ruination of our economy.
The way they tried to 'distance' themselves from their own party by playing down the words Fianna Fail in their posters and ads.
The way so many of them have refused to take the blame for a mad, greed-driven binge and then the bailout of their banker buddies which this country could not afford. Asking the pensioners and low paid to bail out a tiny clique, an elite that the pigs in 'Animal Farm' could relate to.
Empathy? Why should we feel empathy for the people who ruined this country when they never gave a damn about us ordinary peasants who didn't get to meet the bank managers on big bonuses, buy five or ten properties, or rub shoulders with Bertie and the boys in the Galway tent.
I know that not everyone in FF asked us to commit suicide three years ago, but they were all part of a sick, rotten, corrupt organisation.
I don't feel any empathy tonight with the party of Charlie Haughey, Ray Burke, Bertie Ahern, and the two Brians. They don't deserve our empathy, just as they had no respect for the plain people of Ireland during their frenzied so-called booom.0 -
1. People will lose their jobs.
Well there is one thing all of those people could do before they finish. Within hours of the election being called, there were posters everywhere. As I type, it is just over 36 hours since the polling stations closed and I have not seen even one election worker taking a poster down. If they can be up within hours, with people working day and night to put them up, each and every one of them should be long gone by now. That includes the ones lying about as litter in hedges, roadsides, gardens etc. Without exception they should all be gone. The cable ties should be removed too, and not just cut and left lying at the bottom of the poles. So there is something for those people to do. Will they do it? Of course not.0 -
Funny how there is no sign of 'Drumpot' today.
The lack of 'empathy' is killing me!
I'm not one to gloat, the person I voted for didn't even get in, but it's great that the FFers have had their come-uppance. They walked all over the ordinary people for too long, treated us with disdain, and at last they have got a taste of their own medicine.:D0
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