Cheat Day or Cheat Meal?

Heat_Wave · 18-08-2013 1:17pm #1

I know this thread has probably being done to death but having given it a quick search all I seem to find are people talking about cheat "days". There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on whether a cheat "day" or cheat "meal" is most acceptable so I'm wondering what the general consensus here would be?

Current stats: Female, 5'8, 16% bf.
Aim: Lower my bodyfat and build muscle.

I eat very clean 6 days a week and I exercise 6 days a week also. I've an enormous sweet tooth and I find the thoughts of a cheat day help motivate me through Monday-Saturday (Sunday being my cheat day).

However, I tend to really binge on my cheat day. For example, I'd have breakfast as normal, eggs and bacon, then from lunchtime onwards I could eat several chocolate bars, a muffin, few slices of cake and a takeaway. I don't drink alcohol or soft drinks at all btw.

The problem is - I need to know if this is okay as I don't want to ruin my progress. Then again, if I didn't have a cheat day to look forward to I don't know how well I'd be able to eat/train the other 6 days - as it gets boring eating clean all the time!

Thanks.

amazingemmet · 18-08-2013 2:25pm

how did you measure your bodyfat?

Heat_Wave · 18-08-2013 2:48pm

amazingemmet wrote: »

how did you measure your bodyfat?

Trainer did it for me with a callipers.

Stench Blossoms · 18-08-2013 2:55pm

Heat_Wave wrote: »

Trainer did it for me with a callipers.

Have you abs?

I don't think there's anything wrong with having a cheat meal. Cheat day though? I'd find that a bit much.

Heat_Wave · 18-08-2013 3:07pm

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Have you abs?

I don't think there's anything wrong with having a cheat meal. Cheat day though? I'd find that a bit much.

Ha, I wish!

I'm quite lean apart from my belly! As with most people I reckon!

I've read forums on bodybuilding.com etc where people seem to eat as much as they possibly can on their cheat day to "shock" their body hence increase their metabolism, then go back to normal. I don't know how the body works though so whether this is true or not I don't know!

There seems to be a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum, for instance Emmet above! Would you advise a cheat day or cheat meal? Is there any harm in a cheat day if you eat well the other 6 days or is it possible to counteract all work done over those six days by having a cheat day?

amazingemmet · 18-08-2013 3:28pm

Heat_Wave wrote: »

Ha, I wish!

I'm quite lean apart from my belly! As with most people I reckon!

I've read forums on bodybuilding.com etc where people seem to eat as much as they possibly can on their cheat day to "shock" their body hence increase their metabolism, then go back to normal. I don't know how the body works though so whether this is true or not I don't know!

There seems to be a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum, for instance Emmet above! Would you advise a cheat day or cheat meal? Is there any harm in a cheat day if you eat well the other 6 days or is it possible to counteract all work done over those six days by having a cheat day?

Firstly one day of high calories isn't enough to "shock" "boost" or what ever your metabolism. At a minimum it would take 3-4 days of high cals to have an over all effect longer for some people.

For cheat days/ meals it really depends on what your goals are right now. As an aside I normally add 3% onto caliper measures to get them to be a bit more accurate. 16% on a woman is were you'll normally start to see abs.

If you're eating below maintenance 6 days a week then a full blown cheat day could be in order just to get the weekly average in order. If you're just trying to maintain then having a few meals off course is fine.

In your case of aiming to add some muscle then its not a big deal as long as you keep your protein high on the cheat day it could be advantageous. If you really wanted to max your cheat day count I'd do a high volume day before hand to deplete glycogen then refill the next day I used this strategy with one of my bodyfitness clients and it worked very well in her off season.

The thing to remember is hitting 90% compliance on the diet is fine so if you're eating for example 4 meals a day that's 28 meals a week so having three of them not to the plan is not going to impact results in the long run.

Stench Blossoms · 18-08-2013 3:34pm

Heat_Wave wrote: »

Ha, I wish!

Really? I've seen girls with abs with 19% bf. Maybe the 16 is off?

+ to everything Emmet said.

Heat_Wave · 18-08-2013 3:44pm

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Maybe the 16 is off?

Possibly!

Each trainer seems to get a very different reading, which can be quite frustrating. One trainer had me at 27% but said his female clients who were 20% were "shredded". While another trainer had me at 16% and said he had female clients shredded at 10-11%. So if you do the calculations, either way I am approx 6-7% off being "shredded". Sounds funny I know but I've decided to stick with the one trainer because at least his calculations will be consistent!

dor843088 · 18-08-2013 4:24pm

amazingemmet wrote: »

Firstly one day of high calories isn't enough to "shock" "boost" or what ever your metabolism. At a minimum it would take 3-4 days of high cals to have an over all effect longer for some people.

For cheat days/ meals it really depends on what your goals are right now. As an aside I normally add 3% onto caliper measures to get them to be a bit more accurate. 16% on a woman is were you'll normally start to see abs.

If you're eating below maintenance 6 days a week then a full blown cheat day could be in order just to get the weekly average in order. If you're just trying to maintain then having a few meals off course is fine.

In your case of aiming to add some muscle then its not a big deal as long as you keep your protein high on the cheat day it could be advantageous. If you really wanted to max your cheat day count I'd do a high volume day before hand to deplete glycogen then refill the next day I used this strategy with one of my bodyfitness clients and it worked very well in her off season.

The thing to remember is hitting 90% compliance on the diet is fine so if you're eating for example 4 meals a day that's 28 meals a week so having three of them not to the plan is not going to impact results in the long run.

One refeed day does significantly increase leptin levels and does boost metabolism along with other benefits. However it has to be done correctly and the way most people will do it is counter productive.

Heat_Wave · 18-08-2013 6:31pm

dor843088 wrote: »

One refeed day does significantly increase leptin levels and does boost metabolism along with other benefits. However it has to be done correctly and the way most people will do it is counter productive.

How do you do it correctly?

amazingemmet · 18-08-2013 6:36pm

dor843088 wrote: »

One refeed day does significantly increase leptin levels and does boost metabolism along with other benefits. However it has to be done correctly and the way most people will do it is counter productive.

Citation?

Also if she's not dieting down then leptin levels are of little concern

dor843088 · 18-08-2013 6:58pm

amazingemmet wrote: »

Citation?

Also if she's not dieting down then leptin levels are of little concern

Citation? Its common knowledge Google it. And she asked a question to which you replied with an answer that was not correct. I merely pointed this out . I didn't say if she should be concerned with it or not.

dor843088 · 18-08-2013 7:05pm

Heat_Wave wrote: »

How do you do it correctly?

A "refeed day" is not a cheat day in that you do not just eat whatever you like. it is a day where you consume significantly higher amounts of carbohydrates to achieve favourable results in hormones and metabolism etc. How do you do it ? Just eat an extra 100carbs once a week .

amazingemmet · 18-08-2013 7:12pm

dor843088 wrote: »

Citation? Its common knowledge Google it. And she asked a question to which you replied with an answer that was not correct. I merely pointed this out . I didn't say if she should be concerned with it or not.

There's a whole load of other hormones involved in satiety diet and everything else, gherlin, neuropeptide YY, interleukine 6, Acylphosphatidylethanolamine etc. To just look at one when there's a whole system involve is kind of like saying to someone you can't gain muscle as you're got low T which is just a plain over simplification

Most the studies that show a significant increase in leptin show a 5% increase when a dieter is dieting on lower protein diet they can be having a 30-40% decrease in leptin.

"Williams text book of endocrinology" is a great place to start if you want to get a grasp of these system rather then relying on the oversimplifications of the fitness industry

Dublinstiofán · 18-08-2013 7:28pm

I personally think cheat day is too much. I used to do it myself and even with 5-6 days in the gym a week i found i was wasting my time filling up on rubbish for one day as it basically undid the hard work i had done for the previous 5 - 6 days in the gym.

Good cheat meal of whatever you want is best. If you need chocolate try to limit it to one or two bars a week. Shouldn't do too much damage in small portions (in my opinion).

dor843088 · 18-08-2013 7:35pm

amazingemmet wrote: »

There's a whole load of other hormones involved in satiety diet and everything else, gherlin, neuropeptide YY, interleukine 6, Acylphosphatidylethanolamine etc. To just look at one when there's a whole system involve is kind of like saying to someone you can't gain muscle as you're got low T which is just a plain over simplification

Most the studies that show a significant increase in leptin show a 5% increase when a dieter is dieting on lower protein diet they can be having a 30-40% decrease in leptin.

"Williams text book of endocrinology" is a great place to start if you want to get a grasp of these system rather then relying on the oversimplifications of the fitness industry

Oooh! Someone doesnt like being told they're wrong do they? Fitness , losing weight, building muscle IS simple its a shame many people overcomplicate it .

amazingemmet · 18-08-2013 7:35pm

dor843088 wrote: »

. How do you do it ? Just eat an extra 100carbs once a week .

400cals of carbs is pissing in the wind with regards to leptin levels. Read this study

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/81/11/4162.short

Heat_Wave · 18-08-2013 7:45pm

What is this "leptin" which you're all referring to and what is it's purpose?

Also when I weigh myself/get my bf tested this week I'll know if my cheat day was worth it or not. Personally speaking, the guilt alone has encouraged me to stick to a cheat "meal".

JJayoo · 18-08-2013 8:00pm

Heat_Wave wrote: »

What is this "leptin" which you're all referring to and what is it's purpose?

Pretty sure it's a bred of rabbit.

JJayoo · 18-08-2013 8:06pm

Heat_Wave wrote: »

I eat very clean 6 days a week and I exercise 6 days a week also. I've an enormous sweet tooth and I find the thoughts of a cheat day help motivate me through Monday-Saturday (Sunday being my cheat day).

However, I tend to really binge on my cheat day. For example, I'd have breakfast as normal, eggs and bacon, then from lunchtime onwards I could eat several chocolate bars, a muffin, few slices of cake and a takeaway. I don't drink alcohol or soft drinks at all btw.

How does all this junk food manage to track you down??? I'm assuming it somehow crawls to your door every Sunday because you obviously don't buy this sh1t and keep it in your house. I mean who in their right mind would spend money to actually bring temptation into their house?

If you have a problem with your sweet tooth then just limit the amount of crap you have in your house, you can't eat what's not there.

dor843088 · 18-08-2013 8:19pm

amazingemmet wrote: »

400cals of carbs is pissing in the wind with regards to leptin levels. Read this study

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/81/11/4162.short

Study was done with calories not carbs and as you should know amazingemmet we use carbs because of leptins response to glucose. Look Im not getting into this bs iv no time to argue with you . You dont like refeeds or bleive they dont work dont f***ing use them simple . The rest of the bodybuilding world however will.

Heat_Wave · 18-08-2013 8:20pm

JJayoo wrote: »

How does all this junk food manage to track you down??? I'm assuming it somehow crawls to your door every Sunday because you obviously don't buy this sh1t and keep it in your house. I mean who in their right mind would spend money to actually bring temptation into their house?

If you have a problem with your sweet tooth then just limit the amount of crap you have in your house, you can't eat what's not there.

So I take it you're against the concept of a cheat meal then JJayoo?

I never have junk food in my house, ever. I do in fact go out of my way every Sunday to track down Dublin's finest brownie/cake to enjoy as part of my cheat meal! If it's once a week then it better be the best!!

Joking aside, I was just wondering if majority of people have a cheat meal, or cheat day - and what the logic behind both were.

Alf Veedersane · 18-08-2013 8:54pm

Whilst my knowledge of certain breeds of rabbit is negligible, all I can add is if you want a cheat day, maybe spread the cheat meal-esque quantity out rather than having an all-day binge.

amazingemmet · 18-08-2013 8:54pm

Heat_Wave wrote: »

Joking aside, I was just wondering if majority of people have a cheat meal, or cheat day - and what the logic behind both were.

Right now I have designs on some rocky road my mother made. Right now I'm on maintenance and know that 10 training sessions I'll do next week will mean the rocky road will have no ill effect on my physique but on the other hand won't have a positive.

The cheat day in general is there to provide psychological relief from dieting. I general I'm against the whole "cheat concept" as it fetishises food stuff. Where as with proper planning some of these food stuffs can be incorporated into a plan with no ill effect either physical or psychological.

All the claimed metabolism raising benefits can be achieved with "health" food with no need to reach for the brownies.

COH · 18-08-2013 9:36pm

I just ate an entire carrot cake, a pack of jammy dodgers, a large bar of white chocolate, a family size bar of cadburys caramel and a litre of milk.

I am bodybuilder

dor843088 · 18-08-2013 9:41pm

COH wrote: »

I just ate an entire carrot cake, a pack of jammy dodgers, a large bar of white chocolate, a family size bar of cadburys caramel and a litre of milk.

I am bodybuilder

But bro all that sugar will make you fat glycemic index blah blah blah !

Alf Veedersane · 18-08-2013 10:25pm

COH wrote: »

I just ate an entire carrot cake, a pack of jammy dodgers, a large bar of white chocolate, a family size bar of cadburys caramel and a litre of milk.

I am bodybuilder

White chocolate is for racists.

Racists or people with a discerning palate.

JJayoo · 18-08-2013 10:28pm

Heat_Wave wrote: »

So I take it you're against the concept of a cheat meal then JJayoo?

No I love sweets nom nom, but what I am against is people who puss about their sweet tooth when they are the ones who have purchased the sh1t and brought it into their house.

Cheat day = 24 hour Dirty Bulk

rubadub · 19-08-2013 9:45am

Heat_Wave wrote: »

Each trainer seems to get a very different reading, which can be quite frustrating.

I have a slim guide caliper which uses a spring, so I cannot unconsciously squeeze too hard to get a lower reading.

People use different forumlas too though. I took readings and used to forumulas and got something like 12% and 16%BF with the same set of figures.

Some people just track the mm readings for this reason. You could ask trainers to note the mm readings for you, they are probably doing this before putting them in the formula anyway.

amazingemmet · 19-08-2013 9:51am

rubadub wrote: »

I have a slim guide caliper which uses a spring, so I cannot unconsciously squeeze too hard to get a lower reading.

.

Most people also don't pinch enough as well. If its not quite uncomfortable being done then they're not pinching enough. Remember folks you can't pinch muscle

thunderdan · 19-08-2013 10:38am

Is the cheat meal like carb/calorie cycling? Keeps your metabolism from slowing down? And also keeps you from feeling like you are on a diet 24/7.

amazingemmet · 19-08-2013 10:45am

thunderdan wrote: »

Is the cheat meal like carb/calorie cycling? Keeps your metabolism from slowing down? And also keeps you from feeling like you are on a diet 24/7.

A cheat meal is a way to justify eating some junk / non health food

Dravokivich · 19-08-2013 2:02pm

Heat_Wave wrote: »

The problem is - I need to know if this is okay as I don't want to ruin my progress. Then again, if I didn't have a cheat day to look forward to I don't know how well I'd be able to eat/train the other 6 days - as it gets boring eating clean all the time!

Thanks.

The difference is always going to be with managing calories in/out. If you have "cheat meals/days," It means you would be expecting to take in more calories. Doing so, just makes more work for yourself in the long run as opposed to keeping your intake "clean." Or as Amazingemmet was loosely suggesting, manage your diet around some treats.

Frank Bullitt · 19-08-2013 7:17pm

Had a large pizza and a coke last night as a treat, felt like a king after it.

I also use a cheat meal as a kick start to the weeks training, I have to make sure I train hard enough to justify a cheat meal. I would lose the run of myself with a cheat day!

Heat_Wave · 19-08-2013 7:40pm

Thanks guys.

I genuinely think a cheat day is insanity having read these comments. I'll stick with the cheat meal.

Seen as I've already tried the cheat day on Sunday as an experiment, I'll report back with the results as to whether I've gone up or down in bf/weight come next weekend.

For example, I've seen some people claim to be say 170lbs. Then they have a cheat day on the Sunday - back eating clean Monday-Saturday, however on the Wednesday they're 172lbs - then come next Sunday they're 168lbs, and the cycle repeats. That's what I wanted to see.

dor843088 · 19-08-2013 8:41pm

Heat_Wave wrote: »

Thanks guys.

I genuinely think a cheat day is insanity having read these comments. I'll stick with the cheat meal.

Seen as I've already tried the cheat day on Sunday as an experiment, I'll report back with the results as to whether I've gone up or down in bf/weight come next weekend.

For example, I've seen some people claim to be say 170lbs. Then they have a cheat day on the Sunday - back eating clean Monday-Saturday, however on the Wednesday they're 172lbs - then come next Sunday they're 168lbs, and the cycle repeats. That's what I wanted to see.

It can take a couple of dqys to get rid of the water retention afterwards considering most cheat meals will contain buckets of sodium .

Mr. Manager · 20-08-2013 8:51am

I'm not sure what people count as cheat meals. A lot of people wouldn't drink beer as it's not exactly the best thing for losing weight etc but I'd have a few on a Saturday night. Provided I put the work in all week and went to the gym mon-fri. Not sure if that counts though.

Cheat Day or Cheat Meal?

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