Gatso Van M1

Hi kbannon. I should have rephrased my statement a bit better than that. What I should have said is that high speed in general along this stretch would not be very safe due to the number of slip roads coming onto the M1 from the M50. The one where the Gatso van was parked being a particular short slip. I have attached a map from Google Maps to try to illustrate the amount of slips onto the M1 here. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=dublin,+ireland&ie=UTF8&ll=53.414648,-6.223862&spn=0.005768,0.013819&t=h&z=16 The yellow line towards the bottom of the map with M50 written on it is the slip from the M50/M1 roundabout.To the north, there are two lanes which form two more slips. The left one becomes the left lane destined for the airport and the right lane is a very short slip onto the M1. This is where the Gatso was parked. You can see the chevrons between this slip and the M1 northbound carriageway. While all this is going on, there are also people on the right lane of the M1 trying to get into the left lane so that they can then get into the airport bound lane/slip. So a lot of merging and weaving to deal with. All in all, a rather messy situation due to space constraints and not the best of planning, IMO. Hence the reason that lower speeds should be adhered to along this stretch.

Fluffer, I have personally seen the Gardai on this stretch of Bus Lane (N4/St John's Road heading east just before the South Circular Road) give dozens of cars tickets (and presumably penalty points too) for being in the bus lane, particularly during operation free flow. Are you saying that if I join the lemmings in the bus lane and next of all a garda appears, I should say that I thought it would be dangerous for me to drive in the correct lane in case someone somehow does not see that I am stopped with brake lights on and indicator indicating left and it would be in the interest of safety if I clog up the bus lane? That would never stand and I'd be given an on the spot fine and penatly points. I am not the only person who observes the rules of the road along here and other roads too. I often have a small queue of people behind me waiting to get into the left lane at the end of the bus lane.

Just because other people jump into the bus lane doesn't mean that it's ok for me to do it. Maybe a poll is in order for this? Sorry for going off-topic about the gatso van, mod

highdef wrote: »

... I'd be given an on the spot fine and penalty points....

No points, just a fine, €80 afaik. That's one reason lots of drivers chance it. If it was a points offence, different story!

But if drivers drove correctly, the normal driving lanes would be full anyway so there wouldn't be an issue and the buses would fly into town instead of sitting in kilometres of bus only bus lanes full of cars.
Would I be able to get something in writing from the Gardai saying that I would not be fined if I drove into a bus lane if there was a queue in it? I have the strangest feeling that it would be a definite NO. If I can get something signed by a garda, then I will join the already full bus lanes and contribute to the main reason why buses have such long journey times. Sure everyone else does it, I may as well join them. And sure I don't use the bus, why should I care! Am I getting the right attitude now??? I am making myself sound like a right aul selfish ignorant tosser now with no regard for users of public transport.

I'd be a fool to further delay public transport users and also to be at risk of a fine. If someone somehow cannot see that I am slowing or coming to a stop in front of them, they really need to take some lessons or get glasses, or both!!
I really can't believe the attitude of some people here. I'm just glad I don't have to use the bus service in this city. If the bus lanes were not abused, then we would have a fantastic service. So all you tossers, get out of the bus lanes and let the buses use them. They are NOT for your use. If we all do this, those of us who have the option of using the buses can do so and get to work quicker than the car. If there's more demand for the buses as a result, more services will be introduced and they'll become more frequent.

I'll continue to dream

fluffer wrote: »

It's exactly my logic. I've seen accidents with people doing almost what the OP suggests. I saw a car go along a line of traffic on the M50 past a queue, then slow and indicate at the end of the queue (N3). The following car smashed into him.

This is nothing to do with what you're describing. Either the first car slowed down too quickly, indicated too late or the second car was driving too close to react in time. It could happen even if there was no bus lane and they were both driving in lane one.

fluffer wrote: »

But I say there is a few reasons that most people dont follow the ROTR in this case.

In Paris, bus lanes are physically segregated from car lanes. When people want to turn left, they continue to the end of the lane, wait for the bus lane to clear and turn. They don't have the option of jumping into the bus lane early, people don't run into the back of them because they drive properly. Why is it that Irish drivers blame bus lane running on safety instead of what it really is... ignorance?

BoardsRanger wrote: »

surely you can have a debate without resorting to insults! well obviously, there is a difference of opinion here. i think your wrong, you think i'm wrong! il continue to do what i do, as will you. best of luck now

If you think "silly friend" is an insult, then you must be very sensitive. My apologies though.

You can think I'm wrong all you want, but I'm right and you're wrong. There's no arguing wrong or right here. You could argue that what you do is maybe a better practice, but it's still wrong and illegal based on the rules of the road.

Anyway, I'd also suggest we drop it. If you really want to debate it open another thread.

fluffer wrote: »

But french drivers cant enter the Bus lane.. So at the end of the bus lane drivers would be EXPECTED to manouvre.

If I came to the end of a bus lane at a junction, I'd expect that people might want to turn left. Especially if they had indicated in time.

I accept you're being pragmatic and I agree that there are situations where it's unavoidable but the attitude should not be one where it's acceptable to run bus lanes simply because other people are.

Mods, would a new thread for this topic be made? Or is it running its course?

fluffer wrote: »

I abhor Highdef's letter-of-the-law attitude whereby he will come to a complete stop on a fast-moving dual carriageway just because he thinks has a point to prove. The first, second and third cars might see him, indicate and overtake. But to the cars way back who are suddenly confronted with a car fully parked on a dual carriageway when they are doing 60mph? His indicators flashing, and him being right will be good consolations while they recover in intensive care..

From what I have read, you are the one on a hobby horse here. Two points: firstly the car would be stopped, not 'parked', and secondly, the speed limit mentioned is 60km/h, not 60mph. By your logic, cars that come to a stop on a carriageway due to traffic conditions would be regularly rear-ended. This just does not happen.

What you are proposing is, plainly and simply, wrong. It's your decision though. Do you do it often, and have you ever been fined?

Fluffer, as Esel said this is on a road with a 60kmh limit, not 60mph. In fact, a 50 kmh comes into force just at the end of the bus lane and their are a set of traffic lights about 100m further on. And even with that limit, traffic goes nowhere near that speed when I drive that road in the evening. In fact the middle lane is often as slow moving or slower than the bus lane. Sometimes it can work out slower for me, sometimes quicker. Depends on the traffic on the day. It would probably be nearer an average of 20mph, if you still do speeds in British Imperial.
As for a car appearing all of a sudden in front, that is quite ridiculous. If you are driving on a road with a full lane of slow moving or stopped trafic to you left and a major traffic light controlled junction approaching and also cars performing lane changes, you'd want to be travelling at a speed that is safe. If you can't tell from a distance that a car is ahead is stopped or traveling at a much slower speed than you, then you really shouldn't be driving. If people drive the way you describe it, there should be rear endings all over the place every day with people coming to a halt to make right hand turns and blocking the road.