The government asks for boards.ie advice regarding budget cuts

gonedrinking · 19-10-2010 12:38pm

syklops wrote: »

There kind of is already, its called the national solidarity bond. I have signed up for it. Basically you give the government some money every year for a few years(I think it is 5 years), while things are bad, and hopefully when things are good again they give it back to you plus interest.

But if they have to repay it with interest then thats just creating another liability for them. I'd prefer to just give them the money to keep.

Gone Drinking · 19-10-2010 12:40pm

Wow, i must be drunker than i thought.. because i do not remember starting this thread.

gonedrinking · 19-10-2010 12:41pm

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Wow, i must be drunker than i thought.. because i do not remember starting this thread.

I can't remember which is the real me

syklops · 19-10-2010 12:42pm

gonedrinking wrote: »

But if they have to repay it with interest then thats just creating another liability for them. I'd prefer to just give them the money to keep.

We already do. Its called income tax, Value-added-tax, duty, inheritance Tax, Vehicle registration tax, Motor tax, rates, Capital gains tax, corporation tax, I-cant-believe-its-not Tax(Income Levy).

gonedrinking · 19-10-2010 12:48pm

syklops wrote: »

We already do. Its called income tax, Value-added-tax, duty, inheritance Tax, Vehicle registration tax, Motor tax, rates, Capital gains tax, corporation tax, I-cant-believe-its-not Tax(Income Levy).

Yeah but I'm taking about spare change, you know when the shopkeeper gives you back a load of 20/10/50 cent pieces etc and you couldn't be arsed hauling them around with you all day so you throw them into the charity box, well if there was a government box I would put them in there instead. There are also people who after tax still have loads of disposable income left so they could happily chuck a few euros into the box to help the country get back to its feet again. It would be a great money spinner, and everyone would be doing their own little bit in their own little way.

smash · 19-10-2010 12:52pm

gonedrinking wrote: »

It would be a great money spinner, and everyone would be doing their own little bit in their own little way.

And how much of it do you think would actually go towards helping the country out of this hole we're in.

Morlar · 19-10-2010 12:53pm

gonedrinking wrote: »

Yeah but I'm taking about spare change, you know when the shopkeeper gives you back a load of 20/10/50 cent pieces etc and you couldn't be arsed hauling them around with you all day so you throw them into the charity box, well if there was a government box I would put them in there instead.

Assuming everyone in the country put €1 in change into that box it would only take us a couple of billion years to fix the black hole in the state finances.

thebigbiffo · 19-10-2010 12:53pm

squod wrote: »

We currently are providing scrapage schemes to car dealers. Those schemes directly benefit the manufacturer and secondary industries in their host countries. We should be doing this for our own manufacturing sector. Not France's or Korea's!

Many companies that shifted manufacturing abroad could now be in a position to shift their operations back here as many companies relied on huge volumes of product being made. In some cases products could now be made here as cheaply.

There's huge potential for improvement in farming here also. Many smaller farms are under used and no-one seems to consider handing them over (on contract) to agencies, who could specialise in turning a few euros out of them using the people that are waiting around to work.

I'm no expert, but is anyone looking at job creation in this country at all?

i dont want to be negative here because i do see your point. but these example are misleading.

the scrappage scheme made sense as the coffers benefitted from VRT etc on new cars while taking older, more dangerous models out of the market. the scheme directly benefited the gov and wouldnt have created many jobs, although it probably saved a few...

manufaturers wont 'come back', we are becoming more competitive due to availability of labour etc.

theres f'uck all room to make money at farming anymore. the only way to make a proper living or a proper business with significant amount of employees in farming is to have huge amounts of land, and even that depends to too large an extent on subsidies...

but to expand on that and stick with your suggested areas: investment in training in high tech manufacturing and trying to attract companies to ireland is ongoing and very important for the future of the employment market. its a shame FAS have a hand in this as they are now in a **** state - the IDA are not bad at what they do in fairness. we've a bit of a reputation for t'internets stuff with the googles, the facebooks and the e-bays having significant operations here...expanding on that is and should be a prority.

the big problem as i see it is that a large oprtion of people who lost their jobs are in the 'unskilled' category and came from construction and related industries - whereas a solicitor who worked mostly in conveyence may move to another sector, a labourer doesnt have the same opportunites even if the place does get out of recession.

job creation is vital - and i do hope someone is thinking about it in governement buildings somewhere. cos i'm fairly s'hit at it

syklops · 19-10-2010 12:56pm

When I was living at home, I was paying about a 1000 euro in tax every month from PRSI and PAYE. I was a smoker, so I was paying about 6 quid a day in tax on Cigarettes, a regular drinker, so I was paying another 20-30 euro every few days on alcohol duty, plus everything I bought, 21.5% of went directly to the tax man. If the government has not enough money with all of that money coming in, do you really think the one and 2 cent coins that end up at the back of your sofa are really going to help them out of the mess they have gotten into?

gonedrinking · 19-10-2010 12:58pm

Morlar wrote: »

Assuming everyone in the country put €1 in change into that box it would only take us a couple of billion years to fix the black hole in the state finances.

if every adult put a euro in a day that would mean, we would take in about 3 million a day, which is 1,095 million a year, thats not too shabby

gonedrinking · 19-10-2010 1:04pm

steve06 wrote: »

And how much of it do you think would actually go towards helping the country out of this hole we're in.

if it paid for a few hospitals do you not think it would be worth it? I really don't see what peoples problem are with this idea, its a voluntary donation box, no one will be forcing you to donate

danniemcq · 19-10-2010 1:10pm

sell all tv's, playstaions, xboxs, pool tables etc that are in prisons. you get some money, don't hjave to pay TV licences for them and also make prison somewhere where you wouldn't want to go.

legalise drugs with 50% tax on them all (people know they are bad for you but if they want to do them very well)

hard labour, get roads built

Asilum Seekers, if they want to stay give them jobs. Have them picking up rubbish on the streets instead of busting them everytim ethey seel fake roses at 4 in the morning.

Insentives to get off dole, have everyone on dole do month of volunteer work for every 6 months they are unemployed. this gives them free skills in loads of stuff and if they working for "free" might make them wanna work to be paid. Don't reduce dole payments as Ireland is way to expensive to live atm.

Make mutli office services one, the hassle/parperwork/effort into anything you need these days is mental, to get medical card renewed my girlfriend had to go to 3 differnet buildings on opposite sides of town, send stuff away wait to get it back and then head to the same building she was at before.

danniemcq · 19-10-2010 1:12pm

gonedrinking wrote: »

if every adult put a euro in a day that would mean, we would take in about 3 million a day, which is 1,095 million a year, thats not too shabby

so thats just 35 years till anglo is paid off?

or are we one of the countries with a weird billion?

Scráib · 19-10-2010 1:13pm

If there's two things I believe it's that you can't tax yourself out of recession and you need to spend money to make money.

There's only so much money the government can take out of the economy before you'll basically stop the wheels turning fast enough to get us out of the mess we're in.

And while the government can't wave a wand and 'create jobs' they can invest in infrastructure, put business creation schemes in place and then announce them loudly so that people see they're trying to dig us out instead of just raising taxes.

fat__tony · 19-10-2010 1:14pm

gonedrinking wrote: »

Well not yet anyway, but things seem to be going that way. I mean, if they want advice from Kenny and Gilmore then what harm would it be to ask us, its not like we can do any worse. So what do you think should be cut in this budget?

My proposals are:

- Hit pensioners and hit them hard. More stricter means testing for the medical card. If you can afford medical care then you pay for it, simples.

- Introduce a similiar student loan system that operates in the UK, that is, the government loans you money for your courses fees and living expenses, and you start paying it back when you start earning over a certain amount. This is a fair and equitable system, theres no reason why it shouldn't be introduced here. This will replace the overly generous and wasteful grant system currently in place.

- Dole reduced to 150 euro. No faffing about taking 5 euro or so of it or any of that sh1te.

- Increase the income levy another 2%, we can all take the hit no worries.

- Also not really a budget measure, but there should be government collection boxes in every shop in the country, so that you can give your spare change to the government coffers, charity begins at home and all that.

Your policies are ****e, hit the vulnerable and the elderly that'll really benefit the economy. :rolleyes:

Did you ever hear the old saying that you can't tax your way out of a reccession?

You should stop drinking and clear your head.

gonedrinking · 19-10-2010 1:15pm

danniemcq wrote: »

so thats just 35 years till anglo is paid off?

or are we one of the countries with a weird billion?

I'm not proposing it as the only solution, I'm proposing it as an additional measure we can take to speed up recovery

gonedrinking · 19-10-2010 1:16pm

fat__tony wrote: »

Your policies are ****e, hit the vulnerable and the elderly that'll really benefit the economy. :rolleyes:

Did you ever hear the old saying that you can't tax your way out of a reccession?

You should stop drinking and clear your head.

The government are going to be making cuts, big cuts, thats a fact. Whether you agree with this stance is neither here nor there, but this thread if for suggestions about cuts.

gonedrinking · 19-10-2010 1:19pm

Scráib wrote: »

And while the government can't wave a wand and 'create jobs' they can invest in infrastructure, put business creation schemes in place and then announce them loudly so that people see they're trying to dig us out instead of just raising taxes.

and how can we pay for those things when we can't even pay for our hospitals/schools etc without massive borrowing at huge interest rates

gonedrinking · 19-10-2010 1:20pm

danniemcq wrote: »

legalise drugs with 50% tax on them all (people know they are bad for you but if they want to do them very well)

california is about to legalise weed, Ireland should seriously start considering it as well

syklops · 19-10-2010 1:24pm

gonedrinking wrote: »

if every adult put a euro in a day that would mean, we would take in about 3 million a day, which is 1,095 million a year, thats not too shabby

So it would only take about 100 years to pay off what we own. When I am dead, and my offspring are in their late 40's.

Not exactly a fast recovery is it?

Captain Slow IRL · 19-10-2010 1:36pm

My idea for job creation is to build a massive prison for each province, all capable of being able to hold prisoners without having to allow for early release due to overcrowding. By doing this you:
- create immediate employment for construction workers, drivers and business in vicinity of construction as well as any associated employment created
- create employment when construction is completed for prison officers, canteen staff, etc.
- are actually able to put away the scum into a place that they'll be of no danger to the public (start with the bankers, etc:))

The HSE should be gutted and overhauled, starting with Harney. It just seems to be a mini government who are only interested in lining their pockets without trying to help the public. I've been visiting my dad in 2 major hospitals over the last few months and I cannot say how good of a job the doctors and nurses are doing but cutbacks mean the majority of staff are overworked and unappreciated - the last time the nurses were threatening strikes, I thought what selfish c*nts they were but seeing what they have to put up with, I would have been out picketing with them.

Anyone who thinks hitting those on social welfare payments, pensions or any other state benefits is a f*cking retard who's never had to experience the "joy" of having to stick your hand out and ask for help when you're stuck. But if karma exists, you will and I hope you enjoy it:)

Biggins · 19-10-2010 1:39pm

What would I like to do? Off the top of my head, some mad ideas (open to be wrong, nuts and/or plain unworkable.)

* Support SME's better.

* Maintain our low corporate tax rate.

* The adoption of fingerprint identification to be used in doles offices - this would be attached to a cross-border unemployment/benefits database with uses a similar system to help spot fraudulent applications.
(The large costs of the introduction initially would in the long term be small fry to the savings made as fraud is helped to be further eradicated over same period of long term use.)

* Child benefits and similar to be absolutely assessed (and cut, etc) according to the money and/or tax bracket your in and based on eventual net take home pay.

* The adoption of a scheme where for every additional persons employed by an SME (over a certain number), the employer is given company tax relief on their contributions to the state in a number of ways. (Thats the short version of that idea - won't bore ye with the details)

* A permanent section set-up that operates on the same principle as "Board Snip" in so much that the new section will be given full access to any and all records of any public servant department financial accounts. The section will be backed up by a time management team who with the section will continuously look where savings can be made and/or bureaucratic processes can be cut completely and/or streamlined - or frankly just improved (even if that did actually mean hiring more staff - who would be trained to operate more efficiently) A separate inner section will assess the whole expenses issue in regards to making all accountable better - with submitted previous requests, not automatic standardised payments - and having all back-up additional claims by proper evidence of expenditure. The legal ramifications of submitting false or possible deliberate non-accurate claims, being hammered home by stressing possible serious penalties.

* I'd completely have every public service contract written that if you screw-up in your top management job, your entitlements to redundancy amounts over a certain amount (upon being fired), are reduced according to (negotiated within an agreed contract - don't like it, don't sign!) the size of the screw-up! Rewarding stupidity with a massive lump some is just plain idiotic.
On the flip side, if you do well and show generally from start to finish that you have indeed contributed to the benefit of the state, you should be rewarded for your efforts proportionally (as per outlined within contract).

* The adoption of a points system for those wishing to enter our country. I know what the EU says basically that we are supposed to allow the free flow of people within EU member states but limit the numbers also on a first come, first in case, per year, not by nationality but by work skill and education assessment. (Thats the short version)

* By the way, we should be leading by example, TD's pay should be paid in relation to many things including GNP. Right away I would cut TD's wages by at least 35% - if you don't like it - resign! Your here to serve your state - not your state to serve you!

* Look at the idea of reducing or stop paying prisoners a weekly wage. They have work to earn set "prison perks" such as tv access, etc and they keep those perks if they continue to work.

* Set up a process where everything is assessed initially (or re-assessed as need be) as a basic commodity or a more luxury item. Change the VAT rates on those items accordingly. Example: little or no VAT on school uniforms/books/bread/milk/etc... (items again just off the top of my head) to higher VAT on items such as 42" HDTV's, etc.

* Anyone earning over a certain high figure paying entirely their own way in pension contributions and if they become unemployed from such positions (through no fault of their own!) such contributions already paid, will be held by the state until such time as official state retirement age has been reached and those already self made contributions will be added to a state standard pension.
- If they were lucky enough (as a very high earned person) to retire having maintained their high living standards (over a continuous or total in sum, period of time), their own pension contributions would kick-in and act as their basic pension and only topped up by a further state pension (or percentage of) contribution if they can show with absolute clarity that such a state pension claim is justified.

squod · 19-10-2010 1:39pm

thebigbiffo wrote: »

job creation is vital - and i do hope someone is thinking about it in governement buildings somewhere. cos i'm fairly s'hit at it

The first step is to admit that and then take action.

thebigbiffo wrote: »

manufaturers wont 'come back', we are becoming more competitive due to availability of labour etc.

Some bloke (who was talking on the radio about this very thing) has recently started manufacturing a wipe over here to reduce his cost. Importing was dearer for him. There's obviously more of these examples to be found if someone was to look into it using a structured process of comparison.

Another thing that strikes me is the lack of ''Oyrishness'' generally about the place. If I go to Rome I can see Roman flags waving and actors playing at being gladiators.

Over here Johnny fodiner is pass-off to the nearest carpark with a hotel in it and sees little culture IMO. A union of cultural affiars and tourism would be an obvious improvement for both departments.

DonJose · 19-10-2010 1:43pm

Child Benefit - Pay up to 2 children regardless of the number of childern in a family. (I have 3 children)

Tax - Tax all income, even social welfare payments, child benefit and pensions. In German the first €8,004 is tax free, in Ireland its €18,300 :eek:

Property Tax - Adopt the American property tax system.

Social Welfare - Cut social welfare for long term unemployed by 25%. Those who recently lost their jobs should have been paid higher dole on a decreasing scale in relation to stamps earned than the long scumbags who never looked for work when it was plentiful.

fatboypee · 19-10-2010 1:51pm

My idea (wholly unworkable I'd say) would be to get a tax rise break for 1 year by PAYING the government an amount of money for every member of my family. (I know, but hear me out

), say theres 4.6 millon' ppl in this country and we need, for 1 year to find , say 3 billon which comes out of my income in numerous ways, if I could pay that amount, up-front, that would guarantee they'd not be pulling my balls off month after month, I'd do it. Say cost reviews and whatnot (if they had any kindof competence) would save a good bit then paying up the rest as a once-off would stave off ANY tax hikes / stealth taxes for the rest, I'd happily do it...

In a crude way it would be equitable in terms of everyone pays regardless, the same amount, even those on benefits, dole etc. Of course the spending must be cut to reflect progress but staving it off for a year doing this, in my view, could potentially give us all a bit of space to at least f.kking stand still.... yeah, prolbably wouldn't work but...

laugh · 19-10-2010 1:51pm

Instead of handing over money to the third world, pay our out of work trades people to build housing, schools etc over there, similar to Niall Mellon except the trades people get paid for it.

adser53 · 19-10-2010 2:17pm

I have a major problem with the county councils and the way they're run. The lads there just dont want to work so productivity is 0% yet they still get paid. Sack the fcukers if they wont work, this applies to everyone at all levels. Most likely none of them will get another job as, like I said, they dont want to work and wouldnt be able for a job in a private company. Refill the ranks with hard working people that have been let go due to the downturn with the same contractual agreements as a private company. I.e work and perform well or your out. We'd have to take a hit on the dold payments to the ex council lads for the next few years but this would be equal to the amount being paid to the ex private lads. This would at least make the country more efficient and productive, give jobs to those that want and deserve them and would ultimately lead to further job creation. Just my 2 cents on something I deal with every day as a private building contractor where the majority of my work is for local authorities.

maxxie · 19-10-2010 2:20pm

Suckers!! footing the bill for a bunch of gangsters!

senordingdong · 19-10-2010 2:22pm

Found this thread on the opening page and have to say, I'm angry that I was misled.

i_love_toast · 19-10-2010 2:27pm

A leading doctor was on the radio i think two budgets ago saying the government could save a half a billion euro by switching the HSE's expensive brand medicines over to other cheaper generic ones that have the EXACT same effect on patients. This is half a billion saved per year. Did the government take his advice...of course not!

The government asks for boards.ie advice regarding budget cuts

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