God Save the Queen & Croke Park

Erin Go Brath · 26-01-2007 8:59pm

The GAA and Croke Park is about the playing, and promoting of indigenous Irish sports, and certainly not about brutality as some people here seem to be suggesting.

Furthermore, Soccer, and Rugby should be eternally grateful to the GAA for the use of Croke Park for their Internationals. The GAA have done them a huge favour to help out in their hour of need.

walrusgumble · 26-01-2007 11:01pm

secondly,

soccer and rugby regardless of who brought it to ireland,have been very much part of irish culture too,try and dispute that with working class dublines like liam brady, johnny giles and co or the days dalymount would get 100,000 to see an fai cup final or shamrock rovers v man utd, or the exposure athlone got when the papers read athlone town 0 v 0 ac milan in uefa cup in st mels .

the obvious is the jack charlton and eddie o'sullivan eras or even irfu's good spell in the 1980's (look how many people claim that they were in thomond park when munster beat the all blacks in the 1970's, or the pride when willie wallace captained the british and irish lions.

i was shocked to learn that long before the gaa became regularised and established rugby was the big deal in................... KERRY! (how times have changed)

i think its brilliant that it can bbe safe to say this is a sporting mad country. no one in their right mind gives a damn of who you are, where your from or what your creed is when ya are breaking every bone in your body to get a tackle in or help your team win. sports is meant to be the barrier breaker between people, and it so happens there is variety in ireland, and long may that live

i am proud of the fact that we, like the aussie's, have our own indegenous sport, it is def on part of me that proud to be irish come when the gaa season opens in february. we ahve our own unique games and hurling is up there with the best of them. now time for more international recognition. put a hold to those ie hockey lads claiming theirs is the fastest sport in the world

Sand · 27-01-2007 12:10am

I think it will be a marvellous day and a very proud moment when God Save the Queen (if she's still with us) is played at Croke Park. It shows that an English national team can come to the home of Ireland's national sport and be treated with exactly the same courtesy that any other visiting nation would be afforded.

You might be jinxing it there. If the Celtic contingent show up in force then so might the "800 years!" mentality, and then things might get embarrassing when the national anthemns are playing.

Apart from how Ireland does, the day will mostly be enjoyable in terms of how much it really annoys people who would be really annoyed by the idea of England in Croke Park. Hopefully there will be a picket of outraged types to allow others to engage in schaudenfreude.

As for the GAA and its relation to garrison games, enough has been said - the GAA has always feared football stealing away their young cuchulainns with their foreign viles. Non GAA sports have never been viewed as simply other sports, but rather as the enemy.

I dont know how well grounded that fear is when you consider the example of relatively small countries like Australia which have their own aussie rules, and still find the time to excel in cricket, rugby, athletics and to field a half decent football side. Several popular sports dont seem to harm Australias ability to field top quality sporting sides.

Furthermore, Soccer, and Rugby should be eternally grateful to the GAA for the use of Croke Park for their Internationals. The GAA have done them a huge favour to help out in their hour of need.

Im a tax payer. The GAA ought to build a statue of me and worship it.

Steyr · 30-01-2007 1:37pm

All i can say is let history stay where it is in the past, move on and lets go and cheer for Ireland, we have a brilliant side and are gonna do wonders, i think we will get the grand slam!

Dante's Devise · 03-02-2007 6:18pm

I agree that we should go on and cheer for our team & enjoy the day, but at the same time we have to at least acknowledge our past, we should recognise bad times along with the good. We should recognise that people died in Croke Park at the hands of the English and we should, as stated before, observe a minute's silence or some other act to remember that atrocity because it is what happened the last time the two nations were present on the pitch. The English fans would respectfully acknowledge the act & so we could accept & "move on".

Victor · 04-02-2007 2:26am

Dante's Devise wrote:

it is what happened the last time the two nations were present on the pitch.

That is not an accurate description.

InFront · 04-02-2007 5:19am

Dante's Devise wrote:

to remember that atrocity

I think remember is the wrong word. Commemorate maybe, or impose it ona group of British sports fans who know nothing, or care nothing about it.

There would be nobody in that entire stadium of people who could "remember" the 1920 attack. I don't see why it should be taken personally, surely the act of getting on with the game would be enough to say "we've moved on, it's over"

Victor · 04-02-2007 9:19am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6324541.stm

walrusgumble · 04-02-2007 1:34pm

ireland will have enough to worry about if johnny wilkson plays the way he did against scotland yesterday.

look the best way to give croker a good day, is for BO'D and co to give the english the run around and beat them well, (and to rubbed in the face of Brian Ashton)

It is not like the English rugby supporters will be clueless of the fact of where they will be on that day. Many who have come to Lansdowne over the years (and many may know Dublin better than say someone from eg Galway or other rural counties who come to Dublin for the annual christmas shopping) They may have a good idea of Croker's past. I am sure the English and Argentine rugby fans get on ok without having to remind everyone of the Faulklands war, which was only 20 years ago.

Unless the English fans started some rubbish akin to some of their soccer counterparts (Lansdowne 1995), then they should not be heaped with the guilt of the past generation (and that is highely unlikey). Maybe some of their ancestors supported an independent Ireland.

We must also remember that the Irish team represents the whole of Ireland. Some Ulster supporters or their ancestors maybe be from the Unionists faith.We would hardly want to put some of our home fans in an uneasy zone.

Like i say, there are more important issues at stake, like Ireland retaining the Triple Crown, and maybe pushing for a Grandslam or at best the Championship. Come on Ireland.

Fratton Fred · 04-02-2007 5:49pm

Victor wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6324541.stm

That's a good article and raises a few points that I feel need to be pointed out.

Firstly, 25 people were murdered that day and although there will be those that consider the 12 British Officers "Justifiable" targets, they were murdered in front of their families and people lost husbands/fathers/sons that day on both "Sides".

Scondly, I presume that Scotland and Wales will be expected to commemorate that day when they play at Croke Park? they are after all, part of Britain and there is a good chance Welsh or Scotsmen were involved in the Croke Park massacre.

csk · 04-02-2007 6:17pm

Ciarán Fitzgerald, Pat Spillane and Eamonn Dunphy were on Tubridy Tonight last night talking about this very subject. Dunphy said his grand father was actually at Croke Park that day and that his father was due to go but with the shootings that morning he was sent home in case anything happend.

So to suggest that people would not "remember" or would not be "aware" of these events is quite wrong.

caomhan · 04-02-2007 10:01pm

fratton fred

12 British soldiers/spies who vs 13 civilians spectators killed and many more injured by yes soldiers, that is the crux where the spies were engaged is not relevant

i seriously doubt there would be any welsh/scottish british soldier in ireland if not for the ruling english establishment in westminister

Fratton Fred · 05-02-2007 11:04am

caomhan wrote:

fratton fred

12 British soldiers/spies who vs 13 civilians spectators killed and many more injured by yes soldiers, that is the crux where the spies were engaged is not relevant

i seriously doubt there would be any welsh/scottish british soldier in ireland if not for the ruling english establishment in westminister

I rest my case.

A Dub in Glasgo · 05-02-2007 9:02pm

What was your case?

vesp · 05-02-2007 9:29pm

Originally Posted by caomhan
"
12 British soldiers/spies who vs 13 civilians spectators killed and many more injured by yes soldiers, that is the crux where the spies were engaged is not relevant

i seriously doubt there would be any welsh/scottish british soldier in ireland if not for the ruling english establishment in westminister"

Fratton Fred wrote:

I rest my case.

Well said Fratton Fred. I also seriously doubt there would be any Irishmen serving in british forces anywhere in the world ( and there are many many thousands of such Irishmen and women ) if not for the ruling english establishment in westminister

Plissken1 · 06-02-2007 1:16pm

I am sure plenty of tickets have been bought up by the Celtic jersey wearing, alcoholic, barstool republicans that keep bigotry alive and well in this country. I have witnessed them harrassing black people on Easter Sunday, so I am sure this 'Pond Life' will have the England Rugby fans frimly in their sight's.

csk · 06-02-2007 5:46pm

Plissken1 wrote:

I am sure plenty of tickets have been bought up by the Celtic jersey wearing, alcoholic, barstool republicans that keep bigotry alive and well in this country. I have witnessed them harrassing black people on Easter Sunday, so I am sure this 'Pond Life' will have the England Rugby fans frimly in their sight's.

Is that so ? You really think that ? Or are you just taking the p!ss ?

If this decent, leinster shirt wearing, tee totaler cannot get a ticket without having to stump up a grand or more, how are these clowns you describe going to get one ?

Maybe you should catch yourself on and grow the fúck up.

vesp · 07-02-2007 2:39am

csk wrote:

If this decent, leinster shirt wearing, tee totaler cannot get a ticket without having to stump up a grand or more, how are these clowns you describe going to get one ?.

Being a tee totaler or not is irrelevant to getting a ticket. Not everyone pays a grand or more either.

csk wrote:

Maybe you should catch yourself on and grow the fúck up.

Maybe you should watch your language and grow up.

Victor · 07-02-2007 3:22am

csk wrote:

If this decent, leinster shirt wearing, tee totaler cannot get a ticket without having to stump up a grand or more, how are these clowns you describe going to get one ?

Maybe the Celtic jersey wearer has a Dubs jersey as well?

Jackie laughlin · 07-02-2007 2:17pm

Maybe the Celtic-jersey wearer shares the Taoiseach's peculiar nationalism. He "supports" Manchester United, drinks beside Tolka Park but doesn't support Shels. OK, Shels are originally a southside team but he ignores Bohs as well.

Plissken1 · 07-02-2007 4:08pm

csk wrote:

Is that so ? You really think that ? Or are you just taking the p!ss ?

If this decent, leinster shirt wearing, tee totaler cannot get a ticket without having to stump up a grand or more, how are these clowns you describe going to get one ?

Maybe you should catch yourself on and grow the fúck up.

Ive struck a nerve, the truth always hurts

Erin Go Brath · 07-02-2007 9:39pm

Some guy wrote this into the English Times today. Surprised they
published it. ........

Scotland weren't much better than a Guinness Premiership or Magners
League team, but you can only beat what is put in front of you, and
Saturday represents a very good start. Ireland may well be missing Brian
O'Driscoll as well as Shane Horgan and don't have the resources in depth
to overcome such losses. However neither will England have the armoured
cars and machine guns they had the last time they entered Croke Park!
-Frank Schnittger, Wicklow, Ireland

I know this is kind of more sport than anything
I thought it was good anyway

Mrs. MacGyver · 07-02-2007 10:05pm

I think it's time we moved on and stopped making a huge deal out of this. we are all Europeans and therefore should be more tolerant. My fear is as a resident living in the area around Croke Park is that voilence will break out similiar to the orange 'march' in o'connell st last year.

csk · 08-02-2007 5:01pm

Plissken1 wrote:

Ive struck a nerve, the truth always hurts

The truth? That I can't get a ticket, yes I suppose you could say that hurts.

random_banter · 08-02-2007 9:44pm

Quote:

Furthermore, Soccer, and Rugby should be eternally grateful to the GAA for the use of Croke Park for their Internationals. The GAA have done them a huge favour to help out in their hour of need.

Im a tax payer. The GAA ought to build a statue of me and worship it.

That, in my opinion, is perhaps the most relevant point in this thread.

Aedh Baclamh · 10-02-2007 1:20pm

I was initally against the idea of opening up the stadium to other sports such as Rugby and Soccer, but when you think about it, a stadium used for an amateur sport is being used to host international rugby and soccer games. Highlights the strength of the organisation to be honest.

Fratton Fred · 12-02-2007 9:52am

Aedh Baclamh wrote:

I was initally against the idea of opening up the stadium to other sports such as Rugby and Soccer, but when you think about it, a stadium used for an amateur sport is being used to host international rugby and soccer games. Highlights the strength of the organisation to be honest.

I'm sure that every Irishman, whatever their views on Croke Park being used, will be proud of the atmosphere created yesterday. Obviously the result was a bummer, but 80,000 people getting behind an Irish team, whatever sport they are playing, was an impressive site.

nitrogen · 12-02-2007 11:46am

smashey wrote:

The Americans dropped two atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and I have no doubt that their anthem has been played in both those cities on numerous occasions.

Nicely said to quieten the OP's narrow-minded bigotry.

csk · 14-02-2007 4:55pm

There are reports that the British Government is apparently considering apologising for Bloody Sunday and laying a wreath.

While I would applaud the sentiments behind such a gesture I think such apologies ultimately futile. Surely a minutes silence would be a better gesture but what would I know, apparently that would "shame" the English fans.

LordSutch · 23-02-2007 6:06pm

On November 21, 1920 Dublin City was the scene of a terrible massacre by the Irish Republican Army (IRA). On that morning IRA gunmen burst into a string of houses that lay along the route to the conference centre in Dublin and shot dead 14 British officers and intelligence officials, So called ‘volunteers’ entered houses, shooting indiscriminately into Family bedrooms killing 14 people.

The Ireland of those days was inured to brutality on all sides but there was something about these IRA killings that really shocked the Dublin public. Maybe it was the curiously pathetic fact that most of the victims were dragged from their beds and shot in their pyjamas. But more likely it was the story of how the pregnant wife of one of the officers had thrown herself on top of his wounded body in a vain attempt to save him from being slaughtered.

She gave birth to a stillborn child a few days later.

A few hours after the 14 British officials were killed, troops and police officers opened fire on the crowd at a Gaelic football match in ‘Croke Park’ on the Northside of Dublin. A further 14 people, some of them children, were killed.

In that same Ground on the 24th/ February/ 2007, the National Anthems of both the murders and assassin’s of 1920 will ring out on the Rugby field, & across the stand that commemorates one of the victims ‘Michael Hogan’.

The occasion is the Ireland v England Rugby match for the 6 Nations championship.

What’s your view on this?

DublinWriter · 23-02-2007 6:15pm

ArthurF wrote:

The occasion is the Ireland v England Rugby match for the 6 Nations championship.

What’s your view on this?

Is it too late to get tickets?

Mrs. MacGyver · 23-02-2007 7:50pm

Is anyone forgetting that the anthem was played 3 years ago in Croke Park at the Special Olympics and no one batted an eyelid. Stop hyping it up to be something that it isn't. As a resident of the area near Croker I couldn't care less. THe past is the past. I thought the war of independance ended years ago...stop fuelling the fire and let sleeping dogs lie. sorrry but thats my view for what its worth.

DublinWriter · 23-02-2007 8:00pm

Mrs. MacGyver wrote:

Is anyone forgetting that the anthem was played 3 years ago in Croke Park at the Special Olympics and no one batted an eyelid.

Yes, lots of people, and selectively.

I just drove past Suttonians R.C. tonight and there were two guards on static duty on the gate. It this happening at all Rugby clubs across Dublin tonight, or is I being paranoid?

csk · 23-02-2007 10:14pm

ArthurF wrote:

What’s your view on this?

Well, your description/spin gave me a laugh anyway...

Mrs. MacGyver · 23-02-2007 10:30pm

DublinWriter wrote:

Yes, lots of people, and selectively.

I just drove past Suttonians R.C. tonight and there were two guards on static duty on the gate. It this happening at all Rugby clubs across Dublin tonight, or is I being paranoid?

Dunno TBH, don't think they are on duty otside each . Didn't see them round clontarf.

Aedh Baclamh · 23-02-2007 11:23pm

Love the way Arthur put together that little piece

Hagar · 23-02-2007 11:29pm

ArthurF wrote:

On November 21, 1920 Dublin City was the scene of a terrible massacre by the Irish Republican Army (IRA). On that morning IRA gunmen burst into a string of houses that lay along my route to the conference centre in Dublin

Along your route to the conference centre? That was 83 years ago, how old are you?

LordSutch · 24-02-2007 12:13pm

I got my info from the BBC website refered to by a previous poster!

The point I was making in Post #81 is that many people forget (or are unaware)? of the 'lead-up' to the Croke Park atrocity...................

csk · 24-02-2007 3:02pm

ArthurF wrote:

I got my info from the BBC website refered to by a previous poster!

The point I was making in Post #81 is that many people forget (or are unaware)? of the 'lead-up' to the Croke Park atrocity...................

Facts ? Why didn't you include some of them in your description ? Why did you leave out some of the more relevant ones ?

Such as the FACT that the Cairo Gang (as those intelligence officers shot were known) were a ruthless counter intelligence force sent over to destroy the Irish resistance by any means necessary.

And the FACT that the "so-called volunteers" were actually members of Óglaigh na hÉireann/the Irish Army under the express orders of a member of the Aireacht/Ministry of the Irish Republic, in the form of the noble Michael Collins.

vesp · 24-02-2007 5:17pm

csk wrote:

Facts ? Why didn't you include some of them in your description ? .

He ( Fatton Fred ) did not only include " some of them" in his description, he
outlined facts people like yourself often "forget".

csk wrote:

Why did you leave out some of the more relevant ones ?.

lol. Below are the 2 relevant "facts" according to csk

csk wrote:

Such as the FACT that the Cairo Gang (as those intelligence officers shot were known) were a ruthless counter intelligence force sent over to destroy the Irish resistance by any means necessary..

:rolleyes:

csk wrote:

And the FACT that the "so-called volunteers" were actually members of Óglaigh na hÉireann/the Irish Army under the express orders of a member of the Aireacht/Ministry of the Irish Republic, in the form of the noble Michael Collins.

:rolleyes:

"in the form of the noble Michael Collins" lol lol.
Y'know what csk, ye remind me of a cross between Goebells and that fellow Saddam Hussein had as his propoganda minister.

24-02-2007 8:35pm

Well they played it without incident (inside the ground) and Ireland won the match, which is what it was all about.

Another event consigned to history!

THE END

LordSutch · 24-02-2007 8:35pm

In reply to Post #90, Michael Collins was no Saint either . . . . . .

mike65 · 24-02-2007 8:41pm

GSTQ sung well I thought, no hassle at all. Well maybe a few tv screens kicked in somewhere in BallyGobBackwards and South Armagh.

Mike.

walrusgumble · 24-02-2007 8:50pm

great day. thank god this topic will never be spoken bout again. great reception for the english (team taking their time coming out of the dressing room)

csk · 24-02-2007 9:26pm

ArthurF wrote:

In reply to Post #90, Michael Collins was no Saint either . . . . . .

But he was a democratically elected T.D. and Minister for Finance at the time...

smashey · 25-02-2007 12:26am

The sky didn't fall then.:rolleyes:

csk · 25-02-2007 12:35am

smashey wrote:

The sky didn't fall then.:rolleyes:

No the sky fell* two weeks ago when we lost to France.:rolleyes:

*not literally of course

LordSutch · 25-02-2007 1:29pm

Was driven mad every 30 mins yesterday by Newstalk whittering-on about the Union Jack that would be flown over Croke Park at 5:30, so I rang them to explain that the 'St George Cross' would be flown and not not the Union Jack ............

Well I might as well have spoken to the wall, as they insisted that the Union Jack would fly, hence the reason for RSF demonstrating! I even rang them again later in the day to confirm that the 'Union Flag' would not be flown over Croke Park, but all I got from their News Room was the "Fact that it would be flown" ...............

Frightening! when even a reputable News Station like Newstalk cant see the significance or reason between the Union Jack & the St George Cross!

Looks like they were wrong anyway:D

25-02-2007 1:57pm

RSF demonstrating about the british flag!

It's amazing how many people don't know the difference between the English flag and the British (UK) flag. :rolleyes: they must Never watch Rugby

Dontico · 25-02-2007 3:23pm

ArthurF wrote:

In reply to Post #90, Michael Collins was no Saint either . . . . . .

micheal collins should replace st.pat as the patron saint of ireland. there should be a micheal collins day.

plus, a responce to post 81.
any solder from a foreign land, should aspect to die when he/she leaves thier country and picks up a gun.

God Save the Queen & Croke Park

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