Where was BOD/ROG/D'arce et al last night???

davyjose · 06-10-2007 11:02am #1

I don't mean to be picky, but why weren't the Irish squad players back in their respective teams last night? As a Leinster fan, I know we could have used a few experienced heads in the second half (no shortage of talent, but some dreadful play after the break).
Now, I'd like to know, given that the Irish players would have expected to be playing tonight AND are certainly in peak condition, weren't playing for the teams that pay their wages? I certainly don't think they need a break after the paltry display they put in over the last few matches.

/Rant over

Finner · 06-10-2007 11:10am

Give them a break! Don't you think they need a bit of time off?! They're probably wrecked both mentally and physically, plus with the way they were playing during the world cup I'd say they need a bit of time to get back into the game...

I also think it's a good chance for the players that don't normally get a chance to play to stretch their legs. The Irish team of the future badly needs fresh talent and how are we supposed to develop that talent if the new guys don't ever get a chance to play!

bugler · 06-10-2007 11:11am

Eh, the Irish provinces do not pay the international's wages.

They need a break, regardless of how piss-poor they were at the WC. Sheahan and Quinlan played the second half for Munster. It will be a couple of weeks before the Irish first teamer's feature in the ML. They have been sent off to think about what they've done.

davyjose · 06-10-2007 11:29am

bugler wrote:

Eh, the Irish provinces do not pay the international's wages.

They are paid by the IRFU because they play for Leinster/Munster/etc, are they not? Does Geordan Murphy get paid twice? He'll be playing this weekend too, I might point out.

Het-Field · 06-10-2007 12:55pm

While the Irish continued to suck in the ML this week. I saw a variety of positives.

Jamie Heaslip
Shane Jennings
Leo Cullen
Alan Qunilan

RuggieBear · 06-10-2007 2:48pm

Het-Field wrote:

While the Irish continued to suck in the ML this week. I saw a variety of positives.

Jamie Heaslip
Shane Jennings
Leo Cullen
Alan Qunilan

Jennings, Really? Getting yellow carded for dissent is pretty poor for a rugby player.

daveirl · 06-10-2007 4:12pm

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RuggieBear · 06-10-2007 4:21pm

daveirl wrote:

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i saw girvan at the game. he actually spent a long time signing autographs and having pictures taken with kids after the match.

Agreed with the lack of respect thing tho. Even if you are not playing you should be there to support your fellow team mates.

EdgarAllenPoo · 06-10-2007 4:26pm

RuggieBear wrote:

Jennings, Really? Getting yellow carded for dissent is pretty poor for a rugby player.

In fairness the ref was Welsh, Jennings probably said something about wool giving him beard rash and that he didn't like pot noodle.

davyjose · 06-10-2007 5:23pm

daveirl wrote:

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Now you've said it exactly. The boys are sunning themselves on a beach somewhere, while their teams languish. It's not just Ireland that matters - life goes on.
Sometimes I think the IRFU can be very insulting to fans who genuinely support their province; as if every provincial game is there just to give the lads something to do between Ireland matches.

Sally Cinnamon · 06-10-2007 6:17pm

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RuggieBear · 06-10-2007 6:18pm

Sally Cinnamon wrote:

Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.

try again:)

Brian Capture · 06-10-2007 6:42pm

provinces are a joke and give Ireland unfair advantage.

clubs should enter Celtic League and Heineken Cup e.g. Blackrock, Wanderers, Terenure etc. Just like other countries do - like Sale, Perpignon, Toulouse, Leicester, Bath etc

daveirl · 06-10-2007 6:47pm

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toomevara · 06-10-2007 7:15pm

Geordan Murphy's turned out for Leicester this eve, know he hasn't had the most active WC campaign, but I reckon the best tonic after being involved in a shambles like the Irish campaign, would be get back in the saddle for province/club, playing the bread and butter stuff....

zAbbo · 06-10-2007 7:25pm

toomevara wrote:

Geordan Murphy's turned out for Leicester this eve...

The 3 Murphys are playing tonight, Johne, Geordan and Frank - for those interested in Irish players abroad.

Brian Capture · 06-10-2007 7:46pm

daveirl wrote:

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English Premiership features the same clubs who partake in HEC.

Our AIL doesn't.

Santa Claus · 06-10-2007 7:53pm

Brian Capture wrote:

English Premiership features the same clubs who partake in HEC.

Our AIL doesn't.

In fairness, there's no comparison between English premiership club and AIL divison 1 clubs !!!!

bugler · 06-10-2007 8:52pm

English Premiership features the same clubs who partake in HEC.

Our AIL doesn't.

And? What daveirl said was that if you brought it down to club level that all the Irish players would be concentrated among a few clubs, disenfranchising a lot of supporters.

Unless you'd seriously want an AIL team with 2/3 internationals trying to compete in the HC and shipping 60 points a game.

RuggieBear · 06-10-2007 8:54pm

Brian Capture wrote:

provinces are a joke and give Ireland unfair advantage.

clubs should enter Celtic League and Heineken Cup e.g. Blackrock, Wanderers, Terenure etc. Just like other countries do - like Sale, Perpignon, Toulouse, Leicester, Bath etc

lol

that is all.

dudara · 06-10-2007 8:59pm

daveirl wrote:

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Good point.

According to ROG on gift grub, he's going to spend 6 months under a duvet

due to being mortified with the shame of it all.

dc69 · 06-10-2007 10:53pm

davyjose wrote:

I don't mean to be picky, but why weren't the Irish squad players back in their respective teams last night? As a Leinster fan, I know we could have used a few experienced heads in the second half (no shortage of talent, but some dreadful play after the break).
Now, I'd like to know, given that the Irish players would have expected to be playing tonight AND are certainly in peak condition, weren't playing for the teams that pay their wages? I certainly don't think they need a break after the paltry display they put in over the last few matches.

/Rant over

your obviously a clown,what do you think they have been doing for the last 3 months,tanning thmselves!

RuggieBear · 06-10-2007 10:55pm

dc69 wrote:

your obviously a clown,what do you think they have been doing for the last 3 months,tanning thmselves!

no more personal abuse or you will be banned. Only warning.

daveirl · 06-10-2007 11:59pm

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Sandwich · 07-10-2007 12:05am

Finner wrote:

Give them a break! Don't you think they need a bit of time off?! They're probably wrecked both mentally and physically, plus with the way they were playing during the world cup I'd say they need a bit of time to get back into the game...

What, give them a break???
According to EOS one of the reasons for their non performance in the WC was that they havent had enough game time in the last few months. They wont get back into the game sitting on their arses. All squad members should have been available for their provinces and maybe they will be back match sharp by time the H Cup pool games start.

RuggieBear · 07-10-2007 12:08am

Sandwich wrote:

What, give them a break???
According to EOS one of the reasons for their non performance in the WC was that they havent had enough game time in the last few months. They wont get back into the game sitting on their arses. All squad members should have been available for their provinces and maybe they will be back match sharp by time the H Cup pool games start.

well EOS would say that woudn't he!

They need a break from rugby. they have been overtrained.

problem is the H cup starts very bloody soon....

Brian Capture · 07-10-2007 12:52am

daveirl wrote:

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You're from Cork - do you not support Cork Constitution?
They're in Division 1 of the AIL for 2007-2008.

If the top Irish clubs entered the HEC instead of the provinces then it is likely that they would be there.

daveirl · 07-10-2007 12:54am

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RuggieBear · 07-10-2007 12:55am

Brian Capture wrote:

You're from Cork - do you not support Cork Constitution?

So dolphin, UCC, Highfield, Ballincolig, Clonakilty, Skiberreen, midleton (to name but a few) aren't worthy of support....?

Brian Capture · 07-10-2007 1:02am

RuggieBear wrote:

So dolphin, UCC, Highfield, Ballincolig, Clonakilty, Skiberreen, midleton (to name but a few) aren't worthy of support....?

Of course they are worthy of support.

I used Cork Constitution as an example because they would be the most likely to qualify at the present moment.

The parameters would the same for the other countries. Not all the English Premiership teams qualify either.

daveirl · 07-10-2007 1:06am

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Brian Capture · 07-10-2007 1:10am

Yes, the English teams have support - but surely that support remains when they do not make the HEC in a given year? i..e people's allegiances remain.

The point I am trying to make is that not every club will qualify - but there's always something to aim for the next time.

Brian Capture · 07-10-2007 1:12am

do you not find the concept of supporting a province as opposed to a club a little strange?

like it's not really 'local' - just a convenient blanket to suck in all supporters from the region?

daveirl · 07-10-2007 1:19am

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RuggieBear · 07-10-2007 1:23am

Brian Capture wrote:

do you not find the concept of supporting a province as opposed to a club a little strange?

like it's not really 'local' - just a convenient blanket to suck in all supporters from the region?

what's your local club? Seapoint is the only one i can think of near sallynoggin? How many seapoint games you been to? felix jones has huge potential

Brian Capture · 07-10-2007 1:24am

International rugby is a different story.

It's the mixture of clubs and provinces that I don't get.

Brian Capture · 07-10-2007 1:26am

RuggieBear wrote:

what's your local club? Seapoint is the only one i can think of near sallynoggin? How many seapoint games you been to? felix jones has huge potential

I went to school in St Marys and grew up in Ranelagh so I'd consider them my local club (and try and get to as many games of theirs that I can) even though I moved out of the area eight years ago.

RuggieBear · 07-10-2007 1:29am

good club which had a decent set up last time i played them.

developed many a decent back (and Vincent Cunningham

)

zAbbo · 07-10-2007 1:42am

So whats the upshot of all this guff? disband the provinces, and going back to a club setup to try and compete with the likes of Sale, Perpignon, Toulouse, Leicester & Bath.(clubs you quoted)

Leicester for example have an excellent academy with top notch coaches knocking about (ex players like Neil Back and Richard Cockerill), Puma coach Alfredo will be coaching them this season, the best facilities money can buy, assistants to cover everything (specialist positions, video analysis etc.), they also have an extensive scouting network, as well as having the wallet to import Internationals like Seru Rabeni, Alex Tuilagi, Marcos Ayerza, Martin Castrogiovanni and Aaron Mauger.

provinces are a joke and give Ireland unfair advantage.

Yup we've a clear advantage over Leicester, I think it would be much more even if it was St Marys up against them :rolleyes:

Just what in the fcuk are you smoking ?

davyjose · 07-10-2007 10:01am

dc69 wrote:

your obviously a clown,what do you think they have been doing for the last 3 months,tanning thmselves!

That's right - I'm a clown. Great argument by the Way. You really proved to me why they shouldn't play when they are fit and available. I would honestly suggest that if you are going to throw around casual insults, back it up with some facts!!!

padser · 07-10-2007 11:16am

davyjose wrote:

That's right - I'm a clown. Great argument by the Way. You really proved to me why they shouldn't play when they are fit and available. I would honestly suggest that if you are going to throw around casual insults, back it up with some facts!!!

Ok you said that the provence system give ireland an unfair advantage. We put forward 4 provences, from 86,000 players (according to wiki). I can't find stats for how many players play in England but I would guess its certainly three times how many play in Ireland. So they spread there 'top' players out over 12 teams, we do it over 4 (or arguably 3). I don't think that's an unfair advantage.

Also the provences have not dominated the HC as would be expected if they had an unfair advantage.

damnyanks · 07-10-2007 5:47pm

UK Population = 60million
Irish population = 4 Million

we simply dont have the numbers to have large high quality leagues internally. It's a numbers and money game.

Just look at the eircome league or scotish league (or whatever its called now)

zAbbo · 07-10-2007 6:16pm

New Zealand = 4 Million

Chucky the tree · 07-10-2007 6:31pm

zabbo wrote:

New Zealand = 4 Million

New Zealands only other sport is cricket though. We have football, gaa and hurling which are all alot more popular then Rugby.

zAbbo · 07-10-2007 7:17pm

Chucky the tree wrote:

New Zealands only other sport is cricket though. We have football, gaa and hurling which are all alot more popular then Rugby.

which is why quoting a nations population is a bit of a moot point.

damnyanks · 07-10-2007 7:23pm

Was always under the impression new zealand had very few teams in the super 14 and that they operated on the whole provincial & professional teams. i.e something similar to ireland

damnyanks · 07-10-2007 7:26pm

Also,

The population and money aspect is not a moot point. It's the driving issue as to why certain leagues grow and come to what they are and others dont.

England and France have the most successful league set-up's in the world as far as number of teams and fanbase. Serious commercial money is being pumped into teams to ensure they always have competitive teams.

Even before the days of real professionalim wasnt keith wood being paid by h'quins in the uk to play rugby?

Diamondmaker · 07-10-2007 10:01pm

THis thread has gone way off the OP, even by the Mods !!

( Im cruising for a banning next time:)

I was discussing the OP question about this at the Leinster match.

The team had been "pencilled in" to the Ireland diary for a fixed time frame you would assume, to be extended if required.

We got knocked out earlier than the plans would have allowed for but the players still surely have to present themselves for further Ireland activities over the next whilke for analysis, medical and fittness checks etc , until the end of what ever was allocated to the Irish set up.

Being contracted by the IRFU Im sure they will get a break post RWC prior to rejoining the provinces as opposed to Geordan who is contracted by Leicester and is "lucky" to be released for international games and of course need to present himself for game time after his summer holiday.

RuggieBear · 07-10-2007 10:02pm

that makes sense

John_C · 08-10-2007 12:08am

Realistically, how many internationals would have played for Leinster last Friday, had they been available? BOD would have played and it would have been a close call between Dempsey and Kearney. Any others?

Colm_OReilly · 08-10-2007 11:20am

Surely all the players would be under international duty for the entire WC campaign, regardless of the country's performance? Just seems to make logistical/contract sense to me.

Where was BOD/ROG/D'arce et al last night???

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