"Drivers caught on mobiles to face €1,000 fine"

Going Forward · 13-04-2014 12:39am

Sam Kade wrote: »

Gardaí are allowed use mobile phones while driving.

Funny how the average Garda is able to manage driving whilst using a phone and the general public isn't....

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 13-04-2014 12:42am

phones , parrots

WHAT ABOUT CATS???

I saw moronic woman with a cat loose in the car , on her shoulder , jumping about , etc -
the toolbag was all over the road while this was happening - out side castelbar paddys weekend.

if she happens to read this - you are a stupid, dangerous, f*ckwit .

( must add : i do actually like cats )

Sam Kade · 13-04-2014 12:48am

robertxxx · 13-04-2014 12:52am

That Leo guy is just a attention whore!!

Why not do something good for the motorist and lower tax and the black magic of car insurance.

delthedriver · 13-04-2014 12:54am

It fascinates me why people talk on their phones while driving.

I recently noticed an HGV driving towards me, the vehicle was left hand drive and the driver was talking on his telephone. He was quite oblivious as to what he was doing

As the road was made narrower by the mindless driving of the HGV, I actually had to stop in the ditch to get out of the way.

Totally in favour of any new laws which are brought in to combat this criminal behaviour

robertxxx · 13-04-2014 12:59am

delthedriver wrote: »

It fascinates me why people talk on their phones while driving.

I recently noticed an HGV driving towards me, the vehicle was left hand drive and the driver was talking on his telephone. He was quite oblivious as to what he was doing

As the road was made narrower by the mindless driving of the HGV, I actually had to stop in the ditch to get out of the way.

Totally in favour of any new laws which are brought in to combat this criminal behaviour

I fully agree, but do something favourable for the motorist for once! And stop taking all the time!!

michael999999 · 13-04-2014 12:59am

I pass Danny Healy Rae on the road most days. He drives he's Jeep while wearing ear muffs from a building site.

Passed him a few weeks back with the phone stuck between he's ear and the ear muff. And a line of 30-40 cars behind him.

delthedriver · 13-04-2014 1:08am

michael999999 wrote: »

I pass Danny Healy Rae on the road most days. He drives he's Jeep while wearing ear muffs from a building site.

Passed him a few weeks back with the phone stuck between he's ear and the ear muff. And a line of 30-40 cars behind him.

The Healy Rae boys appear to have the equivalent of Diplomatic immunity !

They are legends in their own lunchtimes. Personally I blame the gob****es who vote for them.

Where else would you see kute Kerry hoorism at its very best.

No such thing as bad publicity is their logic. Anything for attention which may grab some votes

JerCotter7 · 13-04-2014 1:47am

So do guards now need proof because that fine is a bit too steep if it's just a quick glance and there word against yours.

expectationlost · 13-04-2014 2:22am

where exactly is this rule? is it part of the road traffic act amendment or statutory instrument from that act http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=25615&CatID=87 http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/bills/2013/7413/document1.htm

can't find the phrase accessing information

http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2013-10-01a.431&s=hands-free#g432
this was in november

In response to input from the joint Oireachtas committee, regulations to prohibit texting with hands-free devices while driving have also been prepared. These are currently being drafted by the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel and I intend to bring them into force as soon as possible.

although i can't find where in the committees this was discussed

press release from february http://www.dttas.ie/press-releases/2014/higher-penalty-points-mobile-phone-use-oireachtas-enacts-new-road-traffic-laws

http://www.thurles.info/2014/04/12/tipperary-motorists-note-new-mobile-phone-legislation/

Under Irish law it is already illegal to ‘Text’ while driving, however the changes will close off a loophole which could allow people to escape fines and penalties if they were operating a phone resting in a cradle or via a hands-free kit.

Minister for Transport Mr Leo Varadkar has signed this new amendment to existing legislation which will come into effect on May 1st of this year. A spokesperson for the minister stated he wanted to close a possible loophole which could meant that a driver caught ‘Texting’ on a phone resting in a cradle could potentially take a challenge through the Irish court system.

can only find a private members bill from 2006 http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2006-03-28.380.0&s=%22texting%22+hands-free#g383.0 that talks of hands free mobile use in cars

GENERAL SCHEME OF A ROAD TRAFFIC BILL 2012 http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/13690-GENERAL_SCHEME_OF_ROAD_TRAFFIC_BILL_2012-0.DOC

Head 8 Amendment of section 3 of the Act of 2006 –Prohibiting keypad usage on a hands-free mobile phone while driving

Provide That:

A person shall not use or handle the keypad of a hands-free mobile phone for the purposes of texting or accessing information while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place.

It is proposed to amend section 3 by inserting the above text to create a new subsection (4) after subsection (3). A new subsection (5) would also be required to create an offence for anyone who contravenes subsection (4). Small changes would then be required to the remainder of section 3 to take account of the new subsections (4) and (5). It is proposed that the fines for being found guilty of an offence under subsection (4) would be €2,000 (the same as the fine for being found guilty under subsection (1)).

Explanatory Note
Section 3(1) of the 2006 Act provides that ‘a person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone’. Section 3(3) makes it an offence to contravene subsection (1). Section 3 was commenced on 18 July 2006 (S.I. No. 384/2006). The associated penalty points in the First Schedule of the 2002 Act (as amended by section 16 of the 2006 Act) and the regulations that made a fixed charge offence of the offence under 3(3) came into operation on 1 September 2006.

The above offence does not apply to the use by a driver of a hands free mobile phone car kit while driving. Evidence suggests that a large percentage of drivers who use hands-free devices are accessing the keypad of the phones to text and access information while driving. This new head is to prohibit this practice particularly as the technology for voice controlled activation of the keypad or voice controlled commands is rapidly advancing. AGS are anxious to prohibit the practice of texting while driving as it is very dangerous and is a considerable distraction to the driver. The new offence will be covered by the same penalty as the existing mobile phone use penalty.

looked for it in the latest iris oifigiuil aswell nope
http://www.acts.ie/en.act.2006.0023.1.html#sec3 section 3 of the Act of 2006
now where does it say that in this new law/regulation

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/statutory.html#151-200

delthedriver · 13-04-2014 11:40am

Perhaps the legislation could also include smoking in the car?

Is the driver in control of the vehicle while driving and lighting a cigarette?

LiamoSail · 13-04-2014 12:06pm

delthedriver wrote: »

Perhaps the legislation could also include smoking in the car?

Is the driver in control of the vehicle while driving and lighting a cigarette?

FFS, are you serious?

If a cigarette is the difference between being in control of the car and not being in control, you shouldn't be driving in the first place.

For any competent driver, smoking while driving is no distraction. Why not just go the whole hog and ban cars altogether? I mean cars have been a factor in far more accidents then smoking or phones?

CiniO · 13-04-2014 12:09pm

LiamoSail wrote: »

FFS, are you serious?

If a cigarette is the difference between being in control of the car and not being in control, you shouldn't be driving in the first place.

For any competent driver, smoking while driving is no distraction. Why not just go the whole hog and ban cars altogether? I mean cars have been a factor in far more accidents then smoking or phones?

Yes I agree - this is going mental.

What about drinking or eating? When are they going to prohibit that?

LiamoSail · 13-04-2014 12:10pm

spurious wrote: »

Good God what did we do before the mobile phone?

Seriously, so many people who cannot do without the phone for a short period of time. Are we all that important that phone calls won't wait? The mind boggles.

That's a daft argument. You could apply the same logic to the use of cars. People got by without them, are we all that important that we can't walk?

AugustusMinimus · 13-04-2014 1:19pm

How long before there'll be a ban on looking at the speedo in cars ?

Ireland is quickly turning into a nanny state. We aren't anywhere close to a real nanny state though. Australia is much, much worse. I've also spent time in Switzerland which is about the worst of the lot.

wil · 13-04-2014 2:00pm

ironclaw wrote: »

My Thesis was a M.Eng covering Active Noise Control with smart phone integration. Not strictly part of the thesis but something I did on the side whilst testing because cars give great noise scenarios. I agree iOS etc is becoming car integrated but we're looking at 5+ years before that comes down to the average family hatch back. And given that I've seen 131 high end saloons with drivers on the phone in their ear, I'm not sure many people will have the up take.

Can someone also explain to me how using a GPS is any safer than using a phone based GPS? I've seen people plonk them smack in the middle of their windscreens which in itself is ridiculous. Texting, Calling and information exchange while driving, I have no issue with a €1000 fine but a blanket ban is unworkable. There are too many legitimate scenarios for potential wrongful punishment.

What on earth does that mean?
Been using low end fully integrated Bluetooth in a low end car for several years now, and no problem with the acoustics - very small simple engineering solution. Methinks you are over-engineering an approach where none is necessary or realistic, (as an end in itself) - hence the 5 years and high end price.

Re GPS - one aspect - it is an almost head up display on a single use device, with no temptation to be anything else, that provides only the visual and audio information specific and required to aid your driving, not to distract from.
With our poor signage it is often easier and safer than trying to figure out or search for confusing or absent signs. It wont attempt to interrupt for any other reason that to guide the journey as input before setting off. Placed properly it provides no more distraction than the instrumentation a fighter pilot uses to make split millisecond decisions, rather, provides information without which, could otherwise distract from safer driving. It has a place and tool for driving, but so far does not do driving for us, and so still needs to be used appropriately.

wil · 13-04-2014 2:08pm

At first glance, this appears to be a response to idiots by idiots, a poorly thought out law to deal with those who refuse to use common sense let alone simple basic safety, whether law or not.
And some of the responses despite the credentials, are little thought out too.

"I can use play my cd but not my iphone music, I can use my radio but not my gps, I can turn on my aircon but not my grindr, I can use my indicators but not my alarm, I can hoot the horn but cant browse for ......"
Simple test - can you do it without looking, with very little if any thinking, with little or no visual feedback?

Touch phone provides little if any physical touch feedback.
I can turn up the volume, change source and station on my radio with my eyes shut, or at most a glance to estimate the approximate position of the major components.
A touchphone, despite touch in the title, gives only at most a haptic response to a precise sight guided touch, and invariably requires visual feedback to decide the next input to be performed.
Yes while many, after some training might be able to play piano with their eyes shut, or may be able to touch type with accuracy on a pc keyboard eyes closed, there are not too many who can accurately interact with a 4 inch screen without some visual feedback.

Meanwhile back to the idiots - a law was made to try to curtail manual phone use, but as the multitude of phone uses become ubiqitious, so too do the reasons to ignore the common sense of the original laws, with common place flouting, the norm.

And personally, its not the young and careless I have the biggest problems with, it's the executive in his Merc SLK, the mother on the pickup run in her SUV, the office worker in their fiat 500, the civil servant in his white and striped, the trucker in his cab....., all with phone held at dashboard height (now more commonly), on the lap:eek: (see I know it is illegal), or to the ear, chatting or thumbing away.
If they cant keep their hands or eyes off their phone, while reversing, driving past schools, parking, turning, overtaking, approaching pedestrian crossings etc, well, how can you expect those they are meant to be influencing?

I CAN NOT UNDERSTAND how the driver of a new or very expensive car does NOT have bluetooth installed and used. It makes no sense ( and little cost), as most, if not all the possible excuses can not be present. It does not make sense why the driver of a van/truck has a phone to his ear while his passenger looks at the scenery.

While you have all these geniuses flouting sense and law, you are eventually going to have the broad poorly thought out kneejerk law response by much the same geniuses in office.
And equally, while we have judges who decide the letter of the law flounces the spirit and fairness, we are going to be forever biting our own tails.

So go apportion the blame where it is appropriate, and next time your latest clever app calls for visual attention while driving, remind yourself why a picture is worth a thousand words euros.

; Anyone got the enforcement checkpoint schedule app on IOS working yet? )

posted from my iHome

dr.fuzzenstein · 13-04-2014 2:19pm

delthedriver wrote: »

Perhaps the legislation could also include smoking in the car?

Is the driver in control of the vehicle while driving and lighting a cigarette?

Good point!
This should also include eating and drinking.
Next would be changing stations on the radio, fiddling with the heater controls and talking to passengers.
Current behavior in cars is very poorly regulated. You see people doing all sorts of things.
So the only things that should be legal are gripping the wheel with both hands at all times (so no more hand over hand steering) and staring straight ahead.
If a cop sees you doing ANYTHING else, it should be automatic 5 points and €500 fine.
Since this will statistically improve road safety by a tiny margin, there cannot be an argument against it, otherwise you are in favor of babies getting killed!

AugustusMinimus · 13-04-2014 2:27pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Good point!
This should also include eating and drinking.
Next would be changing stations on the radio, fiddling with the heater controls and talking to passengers.
Current behavior in cars is very poorly regulated. You see people doing all sorts of things.
So the only things that should be legal are gripping the wheel with both hands at all times (so no more hand over hand steering) and staring straight ahead.
If a cop sees you doing ANYTHING else, it should be automatic 5 points and €500 fine.
Since this will statistically improve road safety by a tiny margin, there cannot be an argument against it, otherwise you are in favor of babies getting killed!

Only those who have passed the Garda Driving Course should be allowed to drive IMO.

That eliminates about a 1/4 of all Gardaí straight away.

Phill Ewinn · 13-04-2014 2:34pm

GarIT wrote: »

Once you're not touching the phone it's not a problem. No matter what you are doing with a phone if it's GPS or whatever you shouldn't be doing it while the vehicle is moving.

How about vehicle systems like Beemers idrive. Should we get all high horsey about those too. They function as hands free phones, sat-navs and car setup systems to be used WHILE DRIVING.

dr.fuzzenstein · 13-04-2014 2:44pm

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

How about vehicle systems like Beemers idrive. Should we get all high horsey about those too. They function as hands free phones, sat-navs and car setup systems to be used WHILE DRIVING.

Exactly. All cars that have a slot for a SIM card, any type of LCD display or touch screen should be outlawed, since they are essentially a mobile phone on wheels. Touch a button, €1k fine.

henryporter · 13-04-2014 2:51pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Exactly. All cars that have a slot for a SIM card, any type of LCD display or touch screen should be outlawed, since they are essentially a mobile phone on wheels. Touch a button, €1k fine.

I know - it's terrible having to press a button on the steering wheel to activate the voice command system - hope I don't get done for it

dr.fuzzenstein · 13-04-2014 3:18pm

henryporter wrote: »

I know - it's terrible having to press a button on the steering wheel to activate the voice command system - hope I don't get done for it

That will get treated the same way we treat everything else to do with legislation:
There's nothing specific written down, so it depends on the mood of the Gard on the day.
:cool:

wil · 13-04-2014 3:44pm

henryporter wrote: »

I know - it's terrible having to press a button on the steering wheel to activate the voice command system - hope I don't get done for it

What about those who DONT press buttons?

those who forget to switch on their lights,
those who think that indicating is an optional procedure when turning, stopping,
those who think fog lights only have an on position,
who cant sound horn when appropriate,
or think a vague hand beckoning behind a reflective windscreen is a visual clue to their intention when a flash of headlights would be more immediate and effective but far too sensible.

Oh wait, we already have laws that aren't enforced for some of those, lets make more.:rolleyes:

wil · 13-04-2014 3:48pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That will get treated the same way we treat everything else to do with legislation:
There's nothing specific written down, so it depends on the mood of the Gard on the day.
:cool:

or there is something written down, so it depends on the mood of the super what the rank and file have be seen to enforce today.

gctest50 · 13-04-2014 3:59pm

Rally style helmets will be the next thing - would eliminate a massive amount of head injuries

AugustusMinimus · 13-04-2014 5:15pm

The next obvious move is to outlaw the sale of cars with manual gearboxes. Keep both hands on the wheel from now on.

dr.fuzzenstein · 13-04-2014 5:22pm

I wonder how this will fare with self-driving cars.
I expect a ton of technophobe, red-flag laws to govern these in Europe, i.e. have your hands hover over the steering wheel at any second and don't blink.

13-04-2014 5:23pm

spurious wrote: »

Good God what did we do before the mobile phone?

Seriously, so many people who cannot do without the phone for a short period of time. Are we all that important that phone calls won't wait? The mind boggles.

Driving is an ideal time for making and taking calls. If I've to call someone and I've a drive ahead I always wait until the drive as it passes the time while driving while also being more efficient than doing it around the house.

Also I regularly drive a few hours home across the country on Friday evenings and it's an ideal time for making and taking calls for planning the weekend ahead with family, friends etc. that's just two examples of why phone use in a car is important to me.

I don't find it distracting at all, I regularly made calls with the phone to my ear before I had a kit and it was often driving much bigger machinery than cars (tractors, vans etc).

Zascar · 14-04-2014 2:52pm

As someome mentioned already, I make calls while driving and my concentration remains fully on the road - I may stop talking or listening to the person on the call, but my driving is the priority. It's no more distracting than having someone in the car. I have a proper cradle in my car - and a "Car Mode" app that makes everything big and easy - mainly i use voice recognition to call people so I only touch the phone once and speak. I also use Google Maps for navigation as I find it better than my TomTom.

They can fek right off if they think I deserve a €1000 fine for doing this.

"Drivers caught on mobiles to face €1,000 fine"

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