"Drivers caught on mobiles to face €1,000 fine"

Comhrá

About time too:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/drivers-caught-on-mobiles-to-face-1-000-fine-1.1759612

Chriscl1

Good!

bumper234

Should tag on a three month ban as well.

Gosub

Long overdue. The amount of times I've had to avoid another driver only to see them poking away on their phone with their thumb.

OK Leo, middle lane hoggers next?

colm_mcm

Call me cynical, but being Ireland, a lot of these are likely to get thrown out in court with the driver getting no penalty points.

ironclaw

Drivers caught texting and using mobiles or smartphones, even if they are on a hands-free kit, will be given a mandatory court summons and a fine instead of just penalty points under new road safety regulations.

So, what about those of us that have a GPS App running in a cradle? Am I not allowed even touch my phone? Is that 'accessing information'? Best of luck trying to convince a Garda it was a GPS App. I run a good few custom Apps I've written myself and some look like fb etc from a distance.

It should be a €160 fine (Double the current) but with an onus on the Garda to categorically prove you were using the phone while driving. Its a little 'I said, he said' at the moment. An inclusion banning handsfree is mental. Unless by handsfree they mean people using in-ear headsets, then fair enough. But a blanket ban is not appropriate and neither is €1000 fine. It should increase by €80 on each offence. I know a good few people caught more than once.

GarIT

1000 isn't enough. Its as bad as drunk driving, 2 year ban is appropriate.

faceman

ironclaw wrote: »

So, what about those of us that have a GPS App running in a cradle? Am I not allowed even touch my phone? Is that 'accessing information'? Best of luck trying to convince a Garda it was a GPS App. I run a good few custom Apps I've written myself and some look like fb etc from a distance.

I was wondering this too as I use gps apps on my phone. Will non mobile phone gps devices be covered here too?

GarIT

ironclaw wrote: »

So, what about those of us that have a GPS App running in a cradle? Am I not allowed even touch my phone? Is that 'accessing information'? Best of luck trying to convince a Garda it was a GPS App. I run a good few custom Apps I've written myself and some look like fb etc from a distance.

It should be a €160 fine (Double the current) but with an onus on the Garda to categorically prove you were using the phone while driving. Its a little 'I said, he said' at the moment. An inclusion banning handsfree is mental. Unless by handsfree they mean people using in-ear headsets, then fair enough. But a blanket ban is not appropriate and neither is €1000 fine. It should increase by €80 on each offence. I know a good few people caught more than once.

Once you're not touching the phone it's not a problem. No matter what you are doing with a phone if it's GPS or whatever you shouldn't be doing it while the vehicle is moving.

zenno

Happy days. But how can you educate a dumb person ? they will still do it even if they are told not to.

We need to find a brain-doner (a mechenism of biological impregnation to their cpu to make the click). My car horn is worn out at this stage beeping them to get off the phone while they are smoothly sliding onto my side of the road, and almost in a ditch.

While I'm driving to Spidel Co. Galway. Where is the rose..?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGMKmYL-vn4

tayto lover

Good but what about someone eating a bag of chips while driving, drinking from a water bottle or just changing the radio station etc?
All the above have the potential to cause an accident.

ZENER

The news bulletins are saying that even hands free use of a phone is forbidden !? Is this true ?

Ken

3rdDegree

GarIT wrote: »

1000 isn't enough. Its as bad as drunk driving, 2 year ban is appropriate.

No it's not! Get over yourself there

So in ear hands-free are bad? Why is that? I would think that MAKING a call with such a device would result in fiddling with a phone and as such should be avoided, but what is wrong with receiving a call on them? Are they saying that if a gard spots me passing him when I have one of those in my ear, he can pull me over? Hope he doesn't mistake my hearing aid for one

Also poster above is correct. Provided you are not actually moving, you should be able to adjust your GPS app on your phone.

nd

Learners who don't display L plates or drive unaccompanied are supposed to have a minimum 1000 euro fine also. Yet anyone around here who has got caught recently have got at most a 100 euro fine.

endacl

We managed to drive around the place before the invention of mobile phones and gps apps. Stick it in the glove box till you get there. You'll survive.

3rdDegree

endacl wrote: »

We managed to drive around the place before the invention of mobile phones and gps apps. Stick it in the glove box till you get there. You'll survive.

I find that my GPS doesn't work so well in the glove box! As for the phone, yep, we did survive. I fully agree with you there!

GPS had made me a MUCH safer driver. I always know where I'm going. I'm in the right lane a safe distance from my turn. I'm not hesitating and making erratic movements on the road. And I'm not messing with huge road maps. It has made driving so much more relaxed and safer for me. Texting and using GPS (while stationary) are not the same, so I hope they keep that in mind - but we all know they won't.

Guy:Incognito

Meh, I predict no change. Just like I can still spot people driving around with kids sitting on their laps or climbing in the back seat.



OOO, 25,000th post.:)

metroburgers

ironclaw wrote: »

So, what about those of us that have a GPS App running in a cradle? Am I not allowed even touch my phone? Is that 'accessing information'? Best of luck trying to convince a Garda it was a GPS App. I run a good few custom Apps I've written myself and some look like fb etc from a distance.

Same as, I normally play flappy bird on my Ipad while driving, surely this can't be viewed as “accessing information”

It will probably all come down to garda discretion and the interpretation of “accessing information”, e.g. "Guard my alarm clock suddenly went off on my phone and I had to turn it off as it was too distracting... :rolleyes:"

Boaty

All the Christmas parties will be paid for in a day..
But seriously drove 200 meters yesterday on the N11 saw 3 people on their phones.

silverbolt

ironclaw wrote: »

So, what about those of us that have a GPS App running in a cradle? Am I not allowed even touch my phone? Is that 'accessing information'? Best of luck trying to convince a Garda it was a GPS App. I run a good few custom Apps I've written myself and some look like fb etc from a distance.

It should be a €160 fine (Double the current) but with an onus on the Garda to categorically prove you were using the phone while driving. Its a little 'I said, he said' at the moment. An inclusion banning handsfree is mental. Unless by handsfree they mean people using in-ear headsets, then fair enough. But a blanket ban is not appropriate and neither is €1000 fine. It should increase by €80 on each offence. I know a good few people caught more than once.

theres a difference between having a phone in a cradle using GPS - which tbf you should be setting up before you start your journey and can then just leave it (or park up to reset) and having it in your hand texting away or up to your ear talking.

And frankly good, I used to work as a claims handler and the amount of accidents caused by some idiot using their phone instead of paying attention.

And im in favour of the fine and the ban, the sterner the better if it stops some prat texting away from running over a child

jack presley

I hook the phone into the aux port and play music from it. I take it I have to pick the album I want before I turn on the engine and no changing until I arrive? Yet I could fiddle with radio till my heart's content.

I have a parrot hands free attachment thing on the dash which I can use to dial a number in the phone. Is this off limits now too?

GarIT

3rdDegree wrote: »

No it's not! Get over yourself there

So in ear hands-free are bad? Why is that? I would think that MAKING a call with such a device would result in fiddling with a phone and as such should be avoided, but what is wrong with receiving a call on them? Are they saying that if a gard spots me passing him when I have one of those in my ear, he can pull me over? Hope he doesn't mistake my hearing aid for one

Also poster above is correct. Provided you are not actually moving, you should be able to adjust your GPS app on your phone.

They were two separate points, having a phone to your ear makes you as bad at driving as alcohol does. Touching anything, phone, GPS, food, make-up, the radio or anything should be illegal when driving (driving as in moving).

ted1

Good thing for Siri and voice commands in general.

brooke 2

ZENER wrote: »

The news bulletins are saying that even hands free use of a phone is forbidden !? Is this true ?

Ken

The law was updated to include texting on a hands free.

If it's enforced properly it's a great idea

nuttlys

ted1 wrote: »

Good thing for Siri and voice commands in general.

question is will voice commands be considered "accessing information" and "hands-free"? From what I'm reading it looks like it could be.

This legislation has the possibility to wipe out value-adding, driving related apps like Hailo/Waze in Ireland overnight. More clarity and a bit of consideration needed I think.

jack presley

nuttlys wrote: »

More clarity and a bit of consideration needed I think.

Definitely. What qualifies as 'use' needs to be explained further. Touching the phone, turning it on, skipping a song etc?

ironclaw

silverbolt wrote: »

theres a difference between having a phone in a cradle using GPS - which tbf you should be setting up before you start your journey

Of course its set up before I go but what about a re-route? One button press and I get a €1000 fine? Sorry, ridiculous. Theres a huge difference between re-routing on a GPS and texting / fb. And of course many would say 'Well pull over' but there are times when you need to re-route or adjust immediately as your coming up on a junction or ramp. There's other Apps I use and develop for driving, all of which may require a tap or two of driver input whilst in motion. And I stress, minimal driver involvement but there is the potential they have to touch the screen.

I'm completely against texting, fb or in/over ear headsets while driving. I also believe handsfree talking is fairly distracting to the point I don't do it myself. I refuse to answer a call while driving much to the annoyance of others, but I prefer to concentrate on what I'm doing.

I believe blanket banning all phone usage whilst cradled is nonsense. As another posted said, say you were cancelling an alarm? That can take two or three button presses. Even cancelling an incoming call in a cradle and re-opening your GPS App (if it closed, which many do) on an iPhone could take three taps. Best of luck explaining any of that to a Garda.

And for those suggesting Siri, I suggest you put a phone in cradle and try use it. In any car with a decent level of road noise, its fairly useless. We explored it as part of a Thesis project. Even with a headset and some road noise, it would often cease to function.

dudara

Good idea in theory, hope they find a practical way to enforce it. It's scary the amount of times I've passed a driver blatantly texting on the motorway at 120 km/h. It's a Darwin Award in the making.

I'd like to see a clearer definition of what they mean by hands-free though. It's not immediately obvious to me.

johnmcdnl

nuttlys wrote: »

question is will voice commands be considered "accessing information" and "hands-free"? From what I'm reading it looks like it could be.

This legislation has the possibility to wipe out value-adding, driving related apps like Hailo/Waze in Ireland overnight. More clarity and a bit of consideration needed I think.

Was about to jump into the thread to say just this - is the actually wording of the law available yet so we can read over it?

"accessing information" could be easily classified as using a GPS map or even talking on the phone for that matter across a hands-free device.

nuttlys

ironclaw wrote: »

And for those suggesting Siri, I suggest you put a phone in cradle and try use it. In any car with a decent level of road noise, its fairly useless. We explored it as part of a Thesis project. Even with a headset and some road noise, it would often cease to function.

I've used Siri in a cradle a lot in all types of road conditions for simple tasks like calling specific people or finding out what the weather will be like. Siri connects through my bluetooth radio and uses my built in car microphone. Only time it hasn't worked was when I was out of 3G coverage.

littlelulu

I honestly see more guards using their mobiles while driving than regular drivers.

If the enforcers don't follow the rules themselves then I think its a bit rich of them penalising others.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Kintarō Hattori

I imagine when they were working handsfree into the law they had something like the below in mind and not a bluetooth headset:


http://vip-ceg.com/images/iphone-headphones.jpg

LiamoSail

jack presley wrote: »

I hook the phone into the aux port and play music from it. I take it I have to pick the album I want before I turn on the engine and no changing until I arrive? Yet I could fiddle with radio till my heart's content.

Agreed, this is nonsense.

Why can I change the station on the radio but not the song on my phone?

I have a screen in the car that will display the phone on it,will that be illegal?

Personally I think this is overkill. €1000 fine for using the phone while driving is a money making exercise pure and simple. I regularly use the phone while driving, and don't see much of a problem with it. Granted, one hand is occupied, but the same can be said when smoking while the distraction argument applies as much to using the phone while driving as it does to having a conversation while driving. Will we fine people for that too?

I think its way off to be honest, surprised so many people are so supportive. It's far far too harsh, the standard fine and 2 points is a fair punishment. It's another bandwagon like "speeding" I fear.

If they are really trying to stop the use of hands free kits then the county is a joke. People pay hundreds of euro for kits so that they can abide by the law and use their phones while driving. It's totally ridiculous to expect people to not use their phone in anyway while driving in this day and age.

Alun

LiamoSail wrote: »

... while the distraction argument applies as much to using the phone while driving as it does to having a conversation while driving. Will we fine people for that too?

This has cropped up before and I understand there have been studies done that show that they are very different situations regarding the level of concentration you have on the road in each case.

Alun

With my handsfree I can both initiate and answer calls just by pressing buttons on the steering wheel, so how anyone will be able to tell I'm using the phone as opposed to just changing the radio station or volume I don't know.

LiamoSail

Alun wrote: »

This has cropped up before and I understand there have been studies done that show that they are very different situations regarding the level of concentration you have on the road in each case.

These studies, I'm assuming are qualitative rather than quantitive. The above maybe true for some, but I don't believe it to be true for most

Neilw

littlelulu wrote: »

I honestly see more guards using their mobiles while driving than regular drivers.

If the enforcers don't follow the rules themselves then I think its a bit rich of them penalising others.

They are exempt from the rules while on duty.

Alun

Alun wrote: »

This has cropped up before and I understand there have been studies done that show that they are very different situations regarding the level of concentration you have on the road in each case.

To be honest I think these studies on phone use, driving after small amounts of drink etc are fixed to be in agreement with what road safety authorities etc want to hear as their would be uproar if they came back with results saying phone use had little effect etc.

K.Flyer

Using and touching your car radio is accessing information, are they going ban using them as well?
I had a stupid driver crash into me while they were looking the wrong way, did not hear me blasting the horn at them because the music was too loud in their car. They will have to ban the listening to music as well so!!
So what are they going to do about those we see every morning, having their breakfast, doing their makeup, reading the paper, (not all at the same time I hope) while driving!!
But to be fair, every day that I am out driving I will see a lot of drivers, both men and women, either driving Cars, Buses, H.G.V.s and Emergency Vehicles holding a hand sets up to their ears.
These people I have no sympathy for if they are caught.

Alun

LiamoSail wrote: »

These studies, I'm assuming are qualitative rather than quantitive. The above maybe true for some, but I don't believe it to be true for most

I believe they were performed at one of the big automotive safety testing centres in the UK. They put you in a simulator and can track stuff like eye movements while they put you through various tasks and can also assess your reaction times to hazards etc, so quantitative.

As far as I can tell the idea is that if you're speaking to an inanimate voice you tend to kind of withdraw into yourself and don't pay as much attention to the road as when you're holding a conversation with a real person.

Alun

Neilw wrote: »

They are exempt from the rules while on duty.

But not from the laws of nature.

Mr Cumulonimbus

dudara wrote: »

I'd like to see a clearer definition of what they mean by hands-free though. It's not immediately obvious to me.

Yes. Reading the piece in the Irish Times, it says 'drivers caught texting and using mobiles'. I originally thought it meant a blanket ban. The piece on the RTE News website states 'if caught texting on their mobile phones.'

Clarification needed.

ted1

ironclaw wrote: »

Of course its set up before I go but what about a re-route? One button press and I get a €1000 fine? Sorry, ridiculous. Theres a huge difference between re-routing on a GPS and texting / fb. And of course many would say 'Well pull over' but there are times when you need to re-route or adjust immediately as your coming up on a junction or ramp. There's other Apps I use and develop for driving, all of which may require a tap or two of driver input whilst in motion. And I stress, minimal driver involvement but there is the potential they have to touch the screen.

I'm completely against texting, fb or in/over ear headsets while driving. I also believe handsfree talking is fairly distracting to the point I don't do it myself. I refuse to answer a call while driving much to the annoyance of others, but I prefer to concentrate on what I'm doing.

I believe blanket banning all phone usage whilst cradled is nonsense. As another posted said, say you were cancelling an alarm? That can take two or three button presses. Even cancelling an incoming call in a cradle and re-opening your GPS App (if it closed, which many do) on an iPhone could take three taps. Best of luck explaining any of that to a Garda.

And for those suggesting Siri, I suggest you put a phone in cradle and try use it. In any car with a decent level of road noise, its fairly useless. We explored it as part of a Thesis project. Even with a headset and some road noise, it would often cease to function.

The new iOS has specific features for use in cars and all the new integration will be in top level cars this year. It won't take too long to trickle down. You will see it being more and more usefull and functional.

What was your thesis on?

3rdDegree

ironclaw wrote: »

I'm completely against ... in/over ear headsets while driving.

Do you include bluetooth headsets also and if so why? What is wrong with them?

ironclaw wrote: »

I also believe handsfree talking is fairly distracting to the point I don't do it myself. I refuse to answer a call while driving much to the annoyance of others, but I prefer to concentrate on what I'm doing.

Do you refuse to talk to someone sitting in the car with you also?

kupus

colm_mcm wrote: »

Call me cynical, but being Ireland, a lot of these are likely to get thrown out in court with the driver getting no penalty points.

Thats not cynical, its just the truth.
I personally know of two cases with drink drivers that got off free because the judge didnt agree with the cops version of events.
If i felt like it and went digging I could proably find out a lot more about others in the area that got off.

Any way, One of the drunk di1ckheads had to be carried into the station, the other gobsh1te couldnt even talk.

But of course our superior judges know better than the likes of us simple folk. It doesnt matter that these guys are known for having a drink and a drive, or the cops made mistakes when booking them in.

the judges seem to know whats best for everyone concerned so who am i to question their authority.

I just hope neither of these two guys ever crash into the judges family and end up killing them and leaving the judge paralyzed.
Seriously I dont.
But if it did happen, i often wonder what the outcomes of these court cases would be.

3rdDegree

GarIT wrote: »

They were two separate points, having a phone to your ear makes you as bad at driving as alcohol does...

Sorry mate, but although I agree with you that having a phone stuck to your ear while driving is very dangerous, I really can't equate it to sitting in behind a wheel drunk. There simply is no comparison.

catallus

Surely there could be some sort of built in app in all phones which can detect if it is moving over let's say 30 kmph and shuts off all the interface. Problem solved

Alun

3rdDegree wrote: »

Do you refuse to talk to someone sitting in the car with you also?

Again the tests I mentioned have shown that there is a subtle difference between these two activities. Talking to a disembodied voice seems to cause a greater degree of distraction than talking with a real person in the car with you. I'm not sure of the reason but I know that when I'm talking to someone in the car, they pick up on small almost imperceptible signals from me or the surroundings when I need a bit more concentration, such as encountering heavy traffic or performing a tricky manoeuvre and either consciously or subconsciously stop talking for a bit. The person on the other end of the phone doesn't have that benefit.