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"Drivers caught on mobiles to face €1,000 fine"

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  • Options
    #272
    JillyQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭JillyQ


    EazyD wrote: »
    Whether your in motion or stopped, the offence is using a mobile phone while operating a vehicle.

    Thats the part that most people dont seem to get.


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    #273
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Going Forward wrote: »
    I can't understand what the fuss is about.

    The usual hysteria caused by a couple of accidents.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2387903/Using-mobile-phone-car-does-NOT-make-driving-dangerous-claims-study.html
    That's just one study.
    There are plenty more that show a link between using your mobile phone and reduced driving performance. Here's two for example.

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1204142

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199702133360701#t=abstract


  • Options
    #274
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JillyQ wrote: »
    Thats the part that most people dont seem to get.

    That may be the case but it's beyond stupid imo, there is no reason someone shouldn't be able to sue their phone while stopped.


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    #275
    EazyD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭EazyD


    Justin Incalculable Statue wrote: »
    That may be the case but it's beyond stupid imo, there is no reason someone shouldn't be able to sue their phone while stopped.

    I'm assuming that you mean using the phone while parked up? Because that's perfectly fine, otherwise it's not


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    #276
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Justin Incalculable Statue wrote: »
    That may be the case but it's beyond stupid imo, there is no reason someone shouldn't be able to sue their phone while stopped.

    Whether you are stopped or not, you are supposed to be paying full attention to the road at all times.


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    #277
    JillyQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭JillyQ


    Justin Incalculable Statue wrote: »
    That may be the case but it's beyond stupid imo, there is no reason someone shouldn't be able to sue their phone while stopped.

    You are supposed to be parked up. You are supposed to be in full control of your car while you are driving it, be it stopped @ lights etc or not


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    #278
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Never really understood the mad desire to be on a phone when driving. If you are that important / busy / need to be be contacted you'll have (And be able to afford) a handsfree. If not, why have your phone out at all?

    Often a 5 second phonecall would save about 10 texts. People just seem to do anything to avoid a phonecall these days.


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    #279
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Never really understood the mad desire to be on a phone when driving. If you are that important / busy / need to be be contacted you'll have (And be able to afford) a handsfree. If not, why have your phone out at all?

    Often a 5 second phonecall would save about 10 texts. People just seem to do anything to avoid a phonecall these days.

    When driving up and down the the N7 daily from a high driving position , the amount of fools I see trying to text and drive is scary. Rush hour car commuters being the biggest offenders . Some even use the knees to steer. I would go as far to say that 1 in 30 drivers are tapping a smart phone while driving 100kph at 6.30pm. Rushing past me while I am in the left.

    They seem to bounce from one white line to another , traveling 20 or 30 meters at a time, blind.

    To be completely honest. The only way to stop this is cameras on the roads.


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    #280
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I had boss who used to go mental if I didn't answer calls while driving and if I was unaware of emails while driving.

    I ended up having a major 'discussion' about how dangerous and illegal it was and how if they

    I think people need to be able to let calls roll to voicemail when driving.

    I put my phone on silent these days when driving


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    #281
    allthedoyles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    I had boss who used to go mental if I didn't answer calls while driving and if I was unaware of emails while driving.

    I ended up having a major 'discussion' about how dangerous and illegal it was and how if they

    I think people need to be able to let calls roll to voicemail when driving.

    I put my phone on silent these days when driving

    If you are an employee , and your job is driving , then of course you need to answer the phone while driving .
    That is not breaking any law , - its the method you use to answer the phone that breaks the law .
    If I was a boss , I too would go mental if trying to contact someone during office hours .

    You or your employer need to equip yourself with , bluetooth , hand-free , or car-kit , whatever option you need to do your job responsibly ( and drive safely )


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    #282
    Comhrá
    Registered Users Posts: 4,765 ✭✭✭Comhrá


    So has anyone been prosecuted for texting while driving under the recent legislation?

    I had kind of expected there would be a few highly publicized cases just to highlight the efforts of the Gardai.


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    #283
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,767 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    No court cases yet for texting while driving http://www.herald.ie/news/no-court-cases-yet-for-texting-while-driving-30545731.html 17th july https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-07-17a.1549&s=texting+speaker%3A338#g1550.q
    only have figures for the general holding phone while driving offence for the earlier part of the year http://www.thejournal.ie/mobile-phone-driving-offence-1640270-Aug2014/


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    #284
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,767 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Frances Fitzgerald (Minister, Department of Justice and Equality; Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
    17 September 2014
    https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-09-17a.1842&s=texting+driving#g1846.q
    The Deputy will be aware that, under the provisions of the Courts Service Act 1998, management of the courts is the responsibility of the Courts Service and I have no role in the matter. Section 4(3) of the 1998 Act provides that the Courts Service is independent in the performance of its functions, which includes the provision of information on the courts system.

    The Road Traffic Act 2006 (Restriction on use of Mobile Phones) Regulations 2014, which is the responsibility of my colleague, the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, came into effect on 1 May 2014. The Courts Service has indicated that it is currently not in a position to report on convictions for the offences created under the Regulations, however, in view of the fact that the Regulations only came into effect on 1 May 2014 it considers that it is unlikely that any prosecutions have yet come for hearing before the courts.


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    #285
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    The new laws and penalties do not seem to be deterring many people. Still a large percentage of drivers around Dublin City holding handsets while driving.


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    #286
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    The new laws and penalties do not seem to be deterring many people. Still a large percentage of drivers around Dublin City holding handsets while driving.

    And every where else too.
    Without causing carnage.

    Maybe the penalties are just a bit OTT.


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    #287
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,767 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    still no info on this law being used


    Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Independent)
    350. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the number of drivers summoned to court to date for the offence of accessing data on a mobile telephone while driving or texting while driving; and the number of drivers convicted of this offence since the offence was established in law. [48062/14]
    Frances Fitzgerald (Minister, Department of Justice and Equality; Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
    The Deputy will be aware that, under the provisions of the Courts Service Act 1998, management of the courts is the responsibility of the Courts Service and I have no role in the matter. Section 4(3) of the 1998 Act provides that the Courts Service is independent in the performance of its functions, which includes the provision of information on the courts system.
    The Road Traffic Act 2006 (Restriction on use of Mobile Phones) Regulations 2014, which is the responsibility of my colleague, the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, created the new offence to which the deputy refers. The Courts Service has indicated that, a new offence code was updated to the relevant IT systems on 7 December 2014 and, consistent with normal recording procedure, it will be a number of months before any meaningful data can be provided on the numbers of drivers summoned to court and convicted of this offence.

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-12-16a.671&s=speaker%3A42#g672.q


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    #288
    Turtle-TM
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭Turtle-TM


    expectationlost wrote: »
    still no info on this law being used


    Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Independent)
    350. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the number of drivers summoned to court to date for the offence of accessing data on a mobile telephone while driving or texting while driving; and the number of drivers convicted of this offence since the offence was established in law. [48062/14]
    Frances Fitzgerald (Minister, Department of Justice and Equality; Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
    The Deputy will be aware that, under the provisions of the Courts Service Act 1998, management of the courts is the responsibility of the Courts Service and I have no role in the matter. Section 4(3) of the 1998 Act provides that the Courts Service is independent in the performance of its functions, which includes the provision of information on the courts system.
    The Road Traffic Act 2006 (Restriction on use of Mobile Phones) Regulations 2014, which is the responsibility of my colleague, the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, created the new offence to which the deputy refers. The Courts Service has indicated that, a new offence code was updated to the relevant IT systems on 7 December 2014 and, consistent with normal recording procedure, it will be a number of months before any meaningful data can be provided on the numbers of drivers summoned to court and convicted of this offence.

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-12-16a.671&s=speaker%3A42#g672.q


    Another gombeen minister in the dail asking a question about a pice of legislation they have obviously never read. There is no such offence related to "accessing data on a mobile telephone while driving"


  • Options
    #289
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,767 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Turtle-TM wrote: »


    Another gombeen minister in the dail asking a question about a pice of legislation they have obviously never read. There is no such offence related to "accessing data on a mobile telephone while driving"

    yeah, its pity especially Broughan spends alot of time on transport issues, although not the main point of the question he should have the detail down, this detail was argued out at the time.


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    #290
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Turtle-TM wrote: »



    Another gombeen minister in the dail asking a question about a pice of legislation they have obviously never read. There is no such offence related to "accessing data on a mobile telephone while driving"

    Accessing a text message is technically accessing data as data, by definition, is information. In fact, if they used the term 'data' in the legislation it would actually be far better.


  • Options
    #291
    Turtle-TM
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭Turtle-TM


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Accessing a text message is technically accessing data as data, by definition, is information. In fact, if they used the term 'data' in the legislation it would actually be far better.


    In the legislation it is defined as an sms text message sent to a phone number registered in accordance with the national phone number framework (not a direct quote from legislation) so even if you are typing a "text" message using say, an instant messaging service that is being sent to a username rather than phone number you are technically not committing an offence. The 2014 amendment is an absolute shambles, I can see what they are trying to do, they don't want people touching a phone in a cradle on the windscreen, but for what ever reason, they completely botched the wording of the legislation, then somehow got the media to spin that "accessing data is now illegal on a phone even in a cradle" taxi drivers ringing joe saying they use their phones for gps and hailo etc and this will put them out of business blah blah blah

    All it'll take is one case to come up where a guard says "well judge I witnessed the driver sending a text message on his phone while it was in a cradle" the only response needed? Prove it was a text I was sending guard.


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    #292
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,767 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Accessing a text message is technically accessing data as data, by definition, is information. In fact, if they used the term 'data' in the legislation it would actually be far better.

    that may or may not have been better but its not what in the law http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/en/si/0178.html


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    #293
    Outkast_IRE
    Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Pointless fine as the law is completely unenforced at the moment. If you put a camera at a set of traffic lights and actually tracked the number of drivers on phones throughout the day the numbers would be scary high. Its just as bad on the motorways/dual carriageways.

    The only way to enforce these laws is with gardai on the street and in the traffic corp which unfortunately there seems to be less and less of them over the last few years.

    Less pointless changes to the law and more gardai numbers to enforce them please !


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    #294
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,767 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    This Regulation does not apply to the sending of messages via the internet (for example using Viber, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Twitter, Facebook, Facetime etc.) or to access phone apps (including Hailo App) when a phone is not being held (i.e. when it is resting in a cradle). However, motorists are advised never to use their phones or any other electronic devices for any purpose while driving.
    http://www.dttas.ie/press-releases/2014/new-penalties-texting-while-driving

    think they did as much as they were going to do as part of secondary legislation.


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    #295
    Zascar
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 12,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zascar


    I have my phone mounted on the dash, and using Google voice, without touching it at all, I can say "Ok Google" and something like then "Call Mum" or "Navigate to Dundrum" etc, and do what I want without touching my phone. There's no way I'd get done for that is there??


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    #296
    Turtle-TM
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭Turtle-TM


    Zascar wrote: »
    I have my phone mounted on the dash, and using Google voice, without touching it at all, I can say "Ok Google" and something like then "Call Mum" or "Navigate to Dundrum" etc, and do what I want without touching my phone. There's no way I'd get done for that is there??

    Exactly the same with iPhone. When plugged in you can say, "hey Siri, text my mum saying I'll be late for lunch" or "reply to the last text from mum saying I'll be late" now say you get pulled over for a secondary reason, and the gard sees a text on the screen, they could try to say you were writing a txt. But then again you could be writing an iMessage to someone on an iPad using their email as way of contacting them. It's not an email. It's not an sms. So there's another technicality!

    By the way, your example above, you could just open google maps and put Dundrum in to search, no need for voice use, legislation doesn't cover sat nav apps! Really just saying it to prove my point more of what a mess the legislation is and how unenforceable it is!


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    #297
    Zascar
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 12,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zascar


    I use the google maps satnav all the time, so you're saying if I get caught my a guard I can say I was doing satnav, and I'll be ok? I doubt it but I wish! :D


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    #298
    Turtle-TM
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭Turtle-TM


    Zascar wrote: »
    I use the google maps satnav all the time, so you're saying if I get caught my a guard I can say I was doing satnav, and I'll be ok? I doubt it but I wish! :D



    Exactly! Doesn't say anywhere here http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/en/si/0178.html about using your sat nav on your phone does it?!


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    #299
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Turtle-TM wrote: »
    In the legislation it is defined as an sms text message sent to a phone number registered in accordance with the national phone number framework (not a direct quote from legislation) so even if you are typing a "text" message using say, an instant messaging service that is being sent to a username rather than phone number you are technically not committing an offence. The 2014 amendment is an absolute shambles, I can see what they are trying to do, they don't want people touching a phone in a cradle on the windscreen, but for what ever reason, they completely botched the wording of the legislation, then somehow got the media to spin that "accessing data is now illegal on a phone even in a cradle" taxi drivers ringing joe saying they use their phones for gps and hailo etc and this will put them out of business blah blah blah

    All it'll take is one case to come up where a guard says "well judge I witnessed the driver sending a text message on his phone while it was in a cradle" the only response needed? Prove it was a text I was sending guard.

    Yes, I'm aware:

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/05/01/legal-coffee-break-2/

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90168798&postcount=18

    And btw folks, the catch all of dangerous driving and driving with undue care and attention still exists, so I wouldn't get too technical at the roadside with a Garda. If you have a DVR, that shows you and your hands, I'd take my chances. Otherwise, you'll need a very favourable judge.


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    #300
    Turtle-TM
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭Turtle-TM


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Yes, I'm aware:

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/05/01/legal-coffee-break-2/

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90168798&postcount=18

    And btw folks, the catch all of dangerous driving and driving with undue care and attention still exists, so I wouldn't get too technical at the roadside with a Garda. If you have a DVR, that shows you and your hands, I'd take my chances. Otherwise, you'll need a very favourable judge.


    Unless the gard stands up and says that they saw you driving dangerously then they can't get you on dangerous driving or with out due care etc.

    If a gard stopped me and said I saw you using your phone in a cradle I'd be polite, as I always am with a gard on the roadside, and say, yes, I was indeed using it, but I wasn't doing so in a manner covered by the road traffic act, as in I wasn't sending a text, and in my opinion I wasn't driving in a dangerous manner. If he wants to try to get a case out of it, I'd happily go to court with a good solicitor and a view to highlighting the inadequate legislation.


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    #301
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,109 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Its a fine line isn't it?

    What about using a touchscreen Sat Nav?
    Or eating a chocloate bar with one hand?
    Or reaching over to change radio channels, or get a CD from the passenger seat to put into the CD player?

    All take your mind of the task of driving and could potentially be dangerous, yet none of that will get you a 1k fine.


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