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Why Does Connor Murray start over Eoin Reddan?

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Comments

  • #102
    thebaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,713 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    calls to drop murray and mcloughlin at this stage , are crazy IMO


  • #103
    19543261
    Registered Users Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭19543261


    When people referred to his speed I always thought it was when he looked up to go for the pass, but I only noticed today how he'd pause over the ball before picking it up. Seems rather odd because I'm not sure what he could be thinking of at that point. Maybe how pretty the shape of the ball is.


  • #104
    matthew8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    Murray
    thebaz wrote: »
    calls to drop murray and mcloughlin at this stage , are crazy IMO

    There's no harm in seeing what Henry and Reddan can do.


  • #105
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    19543261 wrote: »
    When people referred to his speed I always thought it was when he looked up to go for the pass, but I only noticed today how he'd pause over the ball before picking it up. Seems rather odd because I'm not sure what he could be thinking of at that point. Maybe how pretty the shape of the ball is.

    It's not even just that. The time between him picking it up and passing it is completely wasted.

    If you look at Will Genia, he will pick the ball and his footwork will mimic a break until he gets the ball away. The players around the ruck are held and that creates extra space for his first receiver. Murray on the other hand doesnt do that, he takes a few lateral steps, comes upright, then throws his pass. It serves no purpose other than slowing down play and giving the oppositions defense an extra split second on the break. Its a fatal flaw in his technique IMO.

    Saying that, everything else was absolutely fine today and I reckon he did better than Reddan would have overall. If he plays like that from now on we'll be fine with Reddan on after 60. However if that's him "playing well" and his average level of performance is below that then we need another option.


  • #106
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    There was a brief moment where we were really starting to get into a rhythm and NZ were unable to slow us down, and for a few phases in that period we saw exactly what Murray is capable of.

    He has a very good pass when he gets it away, he's got reasonable pace for a big guy, and he was just picking and going on the run, giving us great go-forward ball. He was able to fix defenders and looked really dangerous.

    He needs to learn how to play like that consistently, and when combined with his defence he becomes a really useful player. Hopefully people will be pointing this stuff out to him, I'm sure they are.


  • #107
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    On today's evidence it seems that Murray and Sexton seem to be getting used to each other. Shame it has taken so long for that to happen but here's hoping that they continue to click


  • #108
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Tox56 wrote: »
    There was a brief moment where we were really starting to get into a rhythm and NZ were unable to slow us down, and for a few phases in that period we saw exactly what Murray is capable of.

    He has a very good pass when he gets it away, he's got reasonable pace for a big guy, and he was just picking and going on the run, giving us great go-forward ball. He was able to fix defenders and looked really dangerous.

    He needs to learn how to play like that consistently, and when combined with his defence he becomes a really useful player. Hopefully people will be pointing this stuff out to him, I'm sure they are.

    David Mannix will be starting from scratch with him, effectively. Strikes me as a pretty honest chap!


  • #109
    padraig.od
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 779 ✭✭✭padraig.od


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    It's not even just that. The time between him picking it up and passing it is completely wasted.

    If you look at Will Genia, he will pick the ball and his footwork will mimic a break until he gets the ball away. The players around the ruck are held and that creates extra space for his first receiver. Murray on the other hand doesnt do that, he takes a few lateral steps, comes upright, then throws his pass. It serves no purpose other than slowing down play and giving the oppositions defense an extra split second on the break. Its a fatal flaw in his technique IMO.

    Saying that, everything else was absolutely fine today and I reckon he did better than Reddan would have overall. If he plays like that from now on we'll be fine with Reddan on after 60. However if that's him "playing well" and his average level of performance is below that then we need another option.

    Fair point. Is it a coincidence that Murray (or any half back for that matter) look much better when playing behind a pack that is on top? I think there is an issue with his "meercat" impression but from what I've seen he's cut that out a lot (only once or twice today for example) but I don't think his delivery is noticeably slower than, say Philips for example.


  • #110
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,284 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    His delivery was never the problem. It was the interminable amount of time before his delivery which manifested in both dithering at the ruck and taking far too long to get there in the first place.


  • #111
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    His delivery was never the problem. It was the interminable amount of time before his delivery which manifested in both dithering at the ruck and taking far too long to get there in the first place.

    This was a massive issue, imo the absolute biggest thing. I can remember in the 6N there was a space of about 2 minutes in which 4 or 5 different players ended up having to pass from the base of the ruck, one of the Mike Ross ffs who I'd imagine could be relatively speaking the worst passer on the team, because Murray was AWOL.


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  • #112
    Phonehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭Phonehead


    Murray
    It looks like we may just accept that Kidney does not change, the Backrow were so dominant yesterday that Murray wasn't put under pressure! Something he has consistently shown he can't cope with due to his need to spend half a minute deciding what to do.


  • #113
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Conor Murray has started 29 professional games (21 for Munster, 8 for Ireland). He is massively, massively inexperienced, and people here are confusing inexperience for inability.

    By comparison, Reddan has started 21 times for Ireland, so should Reddan start next week, he'll have started more times for Ireland than Murray has for Munster.

    Murray could be a super player, he has all the attributes but ideally he'd spend a full season just with his head down working away in Munster.


  • #114
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,140 ✭✭✭fitz


    Murray
    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Conor Murray has started 29 professional games (21 for Munster, 8 for Ireland). He is massively, massively inexperienced, and people here are confusing inexperience for inability.

    By comparison, Reddan has started 21 times for Ireland, so should Reddan start next week, he'll have started more times for Ireland than Murray has for Munster.

    Murray could be a super player, he has all the attributes but ideally he'd spend a full season just with his head down working away in Munster.

    IBF's analysis of his flaws is spot on, and I agree with everything you've said there Amazo. I'm really hopefully that Penney/Mannix can help Murray realise his potential, because if he can do that, he'll be some player.


  • #115
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Conor Murray has started 29 professional games (21 for Munster, 8 for Ireland). He is massively, massively inexperienced, and people here are confusing inexperience for inability.

    By comparison, Reddan has started 21 times for Ireland, so should Reddan start next week, he'll have started more times for Ireland than Murray has for Munster.

    Murray could be a super player, he has all the attributes but ideally he'd spend a full season just with his head down working away in Munster.

    I agree. The guy has a decent pass on him when he chooses to use it, just doesn't do so often enough.

    Unfortunately, he is now the undisputed first choice for Ireland so the chances of him getting a full season with Munster are precisely zero.


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