Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Lelantos · 28-08-2012 2:21pm

profitius wrote: »

Murphy was good but error prone. Dempsey was easily the better player.

Whether or not things worked out for Murphy in the Irish set up aside, Dempsey wasn't in the same class as Murphy, ever imo

jm08 · 28-08-2012 2:21pm

GerM wrote: »

Your reasoning have no context at all. He made the comments about Dempsey being first choice full back long after Dempsey had established himself ahead of Murphy. I think it was the 2008 6N, long after EOS had dropped him as called for by the majority of the public and a section of the media. That was years after EOS selected him non stop for a couple of seasons and backed him despite heavy pressure. He gave him about 40 starts for Ireland before 2008 without any comment.

He didn't single Murphy out at all. He was asked a direct question about GM in a press conference (by Thornley, I believe). He answered it quite poorly but there was no singling out whatsoever. "I think historically Geordan's last two games haven't been a hunting ground for him." That's the "criticism". Quite tame considering what most of us actually thought of Murphy's showings against France earlier that year and in 2006.

Your all over the place with your reasoning and information here, jm.

This is the quote I'm thinking of:

On Friday I was parachuted straight into the side. Eddie insisted that this was all just a temporary inconvenience: “Obviously, Girvan is our starting full-back, there’s no question about that, and Geordan is our number two full-back. I know he’s very happy to be back.”
Imagine the dent in confidence for a guy reading those comments from his coach before a match? It was a disgraceful way to treat anyone. Thankfully, I was bulletproof by then.
When Rory Lamont burst through in the early stages of the match, I could have been swatted aside, but I hit him hard and he went to ground. Soon after, I put a neat kick into Scottish territory that led to David Wallace going over off a scrum, and was involved in two more tries.

I thought it pitiful that Eddie, in the immediate aftermath, felt the need to say: “I’m delighted for Geordan but Girvan has been outstanding for Ireland at full-back.” Girv had been outstanding, but to say this after the performance I had just produced seemed very petty. “He’s a different type of player to Geordan and he’s often maligned unfairly. But his strike rate is extraordinary. He’s scored many key tries — against Georgia at the World Cup and against Italy in our first Six Nations match.”

I think it would be only human to be a bit annoyed by that. He is dismissing him even when he did do well.

I seem to recall some people getting really annoyed on here that Kidney didn't praise Sexton enough when he had a good game (said something along the lines that it was great that we had two world class players with Sexton & O'Gara).

jm08 · 28-08-2012 2:27pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He absolutely was the same player. He just never showed that at international level. That was his fault as much as it was EOS's and Kidney's.

The guy is seen by Leicester fans as one of their best ever players. That's an incredible compliment to pay to someone at any club, let alone a club of that stature. The difference between the games he was excelling at when he and Leicester were in their prime and the games he was looking poor for Ireland was very small. He just wasn't comfortable in the setup and seemed to flounder a bit. He was still one of the best players at one of the best teams that European rugby has seen, and I don't believe they were that far behind where we were at the time.

His attacking game was a great example of it. The Irish guys were so far behind in an attacking sense that he just couldn't get on their wavelength. I think it's still the case for some of our players, certainly Joe Schmidt believed it when he arrived.

Geordan Murphy made the dream team of the first 15 years of the Heineken Cup. Thats some compliment considering who would have played in that comp over that period.

profitius · 28-08-2012 2:32pm

Lelantos wrote: »

Whether or not things worked out for Murphy in the Irish set up aside, Dempsey wasn't in the same class as Murphy, ever imo

I disagree. Dempsey was very underrated. He was Irelands Mr Consistent and good in both attack and defense. Under the high ball he was one of the worlds best.

Tox56 · 28-08-2012 2:35pm

jm08 wrote: »

I seem to recall some people getting really annoyed on here that Kidney didn't praise Sexton enough when he had a good game (said something along the lines that it was great that we had two world class players with Sexton & O'Gara).

So what, you think Kidney was wrong to say that?

Even I don't think that, I'm shocked you would.

jm08 · 28-08-2012 3:39pm

Tox56 wrote: »

So what, you think Kidney was wrong to say that?

Even I don't think that, I'm shocked you would.

I think he was right to praise both. Some posters thought he should have praised Sexton more and not mention O'Gara!

WW3 would have broken out if he said "I’m delighted for Geordan Johnny but Girvan Ronan has been outstanding for Ireland at full-back outhalf.”

totallegend · 28-08-2012 4:02pm

jm08 wrote: »

Geordan Murphy made the dream team of the first 15 years of the Heineken Cup. Thats some compliment considering who would have played in that comp over that period.

Doesn't it just further emphasise the opinion that he was great for Leicester but never replicated that or made a step up for Ireland?

Tox56 · 28-08-2012 4:38pm

jm08 wrote: »

I think he was right to praise both. Some posters thought he should have praised Sexton more and not mention O'Gara!

WW3 would have broken out if he said "I’m delighted for Geordan Johnny but Girvan Ronan has been outstanding for Ireland at full-back outhalf.”

As you were referencing it I presumed you felt it was a comparable situation

jm08 · 28-08-2012 4:46pm

totallegend wrote: »

Doesn't it just further emphasise the opinion that he was great for Leicester but never replicated that or made a step up for Ireland?

There might be question marks over it if it English premiership dream team of the first 15 years, but he was selected over multiple HC winners like Poitrenaud.

jm08 · 28-08-2012 4:50pm

Tox56 wrote: »

As you were referencing it I presumed you felt it was a comparable situation

It was a situation where both coaches were asked leading questions and one dealt with it a lot better than the other (from a player's point of view). The meeja would probably have preferred a bit of controversy.

irishbucsfan · 28-08-2012 4:50pm

jm08 wrote: »

There might be question marks over it if it English premiership dream team of the first 15 years, but he was selected over multiple HC winners like Poitrenaud.

No, it shows nothing about his international performances. Which is totallegend's point. It's about his Heineken Cup performances.

Murphy never played as well for Ireland as he did for Leicester. I don't believe at all that it was down to his own level of ability though.

EDIT: And for those saying Murphy's defense wasn't good enough. It was no worse than Rob Kearney's is currently.

Tox56 · 28-08-2012 4:59pm

jm08 wrote: »

It was a situation where both coaches were asked leading questions and one dealt with it a lot better than the other (from a player's point of view). The meeja would probably have preferred a bit of controversy.

If you wanted to show how much better DK dealt with a similar situation, why would you highlight the fact many people were complaining about how he dealt with it?

I would have thought praise of a player's performance would be more reassuring from a player's point of view.

28-08-2012 5:01pm

Awful lot of Murphy-bashing esque posts.

Girvan Dempsey was possibly the most dependable full back we have had in the pro era, and also a clinical finisher with gas to boot.

Yes, Murphy had an X-factor about him. But sometimes that cost us dearly. He was always liable to try something, which I personally think is an admirable trait, but in much the same vein as Quade-Cooper has shown for Australia, sometimes you just need someone to come in and solidify what's going on, as there's plenty of hands around you that can provide the flash.
In fact, the Berrick Barnes <-> Quade-Cooper comparison is pretty apt.

On their best days, Quade-Cooper is electrifying and can magic something out of nothing. Barnes would make no errors, make every tackle and kick, and provide clinical distribution that would undoubtedly be finished.
However, on their worst days, QC can throw two intercept passes, miss tackles left right and centre, and generally have a massive negative influence on the game. Barnes might miss a few kicks, and throw a few wayward passes, but his bad games wouldn't be as detrimental to the team around him.

High Risk, High reward is great when it pays off, and is definitely the best rugby to watch. However, someone like Girv was a low risk option, while still providing plenty of reward.

Had Murphy gotten no caps, or had a massively inferior player taking caps out of his hands, he might have a case to make. But Girv was never caught out, had far less high profile howlers, and consistently proved himself to be a very-more-than-capable selection.

Murphy was "gambled" upon often enough, and did really well too many times. He was a great option to have to provide electricity when needed. Unfortunately for him, it was decided that we needed a rock at full back, and Girv was as solid as it comes.

CatFromHue · 28-08-2012 5:10pm

profitius wrote: »

Murphy was good but error prone. Dempsey was easily the better player.

I'd agree with this but add on that Dempsey was a more effective player imo. Murphy was a skillful player but in the Irish set up the tricks that he had never went very far whereas Dempsey imo added more to backline moves whenever he came into them.

totallegend · 28-08-2012 5:39pm

jm08 wrote: »

There might be question marks over it if it English premiership dream team of the first 15 years, but he was selected over multiple HC winners like Poitrenaud.

No.

He got into that team on the basis of his performances for Leicester, not for Ireland.

So no.

shuffol · 28-08-2012 6:53pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, it shows nothing about his international performances. Which is totallegend's point. It's about his Heineken Cup performances.

Murphy never played as well for Ireland as he did for Leicester. I don't believe at all that it was down to his own level of ability though.

EDIT: And for those saying Murphy's defense wasn't good enough. It was no worse than Rob Kearney's is currently.

Out of curiosity what tries conceded over the last few years would you lay at Kearneys door.

irishbucsfan · 28-08-2012 6:56pm

shuffol wrote: »

Out of curiosity what tries conceded over the last few years would you lay at Kearneys door.

There have been a couple for both Leinster and Ireland. The one against New Zealand being the biggest example for Ireland that I can recall and the time he was swatted away like a fly by the imposing presence of Keith Earls being the most obvious example for Leinster. It's definitely his biggest weakness.

shuffol · 28-08-2012 7:02pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There have been a couple for both Leinster and Ireland. The one against New Zealand being the biggest example for Ireland that I can recall and the time he was swatted away like a fly by the imposing presence of Keith Earls being the most obvious example for Leinster. It's definitely his biggest weakness.

Agree on it being his biggest weakness but I cant remember too many occasions where he's let Ireland down, whats the NZ one you're referring to?

Quint2010 · 29-08-2012 8:29pm

Bumped into a certain pro-Kidney journalist late on Sat night and he confirmed Kidney would be gone next June.

molloyjh · 29-08-2012 8:40pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Bumped into a certain pro-Kidney journalist late on Sat night and he confirmed Kidney would be gone next June.

Jesus I'd bloody we'll hope so. Could you imagine if he were kept on!?

thomond2006 · 29-08-2012 8:41pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Jesus I'd bloody we'll hope so. Could you imagine if he were kept on!?

Nightmare sorted tonight, cheers.

jm08 · 29-08-2012 8:44pm

Welcome Michael Bradley

Quint2010 · 29-08-2012 8:53pm

jm08 wrote: »

Welcome Michael Bradley

I want a foreign coach this time-someone who isnt alligned to any province.

Step forward Nicholas Vivian Howard Mallett

jm08 · 29-08-2012 9:14pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

I want a foreign coach this time-someone who isnt alligned to any province.

Step forward Nicholas Vivian Howard Mallett

ummm ... So you met Hugh Farrelly late on Saturday night (who apparently is giving up his rugby gig with the Indo because he is fed up of internet hards having a go at him) and he told you what you wanted to hear

Quint2010 · 29-08-2012 9:16pm

jm08 wrote: »

ummm ... So you met Hugh Farrelly late on Saturday night (who apparently is giving up his rugby gig with the Indo because he is fed up of internet hards having a go at him) and he told you what you wanted to hear

You might think that...I couldn't possibly comment

PS It was the other Kidneyite..

chancer12 · 30-08-2012 12:47pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Bumped into a certain pro-Kidney journalist late on Sat night and he confirmed Kidney would be gone next June.

Do you promise?!!!

phog · 31-08-2012 12:33pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Bumped into a certain pro-Kidney journalist late on Sat night and he confirmed Kidney would be gone next June.

I hope Ireland win the Grand Slam

CatFromHue · 03-09-2012 8:27pm

Vincent Hogan's rebuttal of Geordan Murphy's book:

"Yet, reading 'The Outsider', you get no glimpse of a life spent fighting prejudice.

Rather you get the reflection of a beautiful talent for whom the mundane business of tackling an opponent never quite seemed to register as a skill worth mastering.

That, you suspect, was the beginning and the end of Geordan Murphy's story with Eddie O'Sullivan.

Just too many impressions of a human turnstile."

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/vincent-hogan/vincent-hogan-murphys-tackle-on-old-boss-is-badly-misjudged-3216546.html

Fairly hard hitting but if you go to 6min 51sec you can see why people think that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWU8kXwwVdo

GerM · 03-09-2012 8:54pm

I read another extract on a British website over the weekend. Murphy speaks about his first cap but also mentions that he thinks it came after a few members of the media gave him a bit of hype so he was put on the radar. I believe he was 21 at the time. Most interestingly though, is that he said he'd probably have declared for England if the call didn't come as he'd have been qualified at the age of 22. Apparently Woodward was keen. Would have been very interesting to see how he'd have gotten on alongside the likes of Robinson and Greenwood.

CatFromHue · 03-09-2012 9:11pm

There didn't seem to be a follow up in The Times so I didn't get to read any of the other bits from the book.

I don't think he would have been as successful with England as he was with Ireland though. Robinson and Balshaw were better attackers and Lewsey was a very good player.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Comments