Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
Alternatives to Catholicism?
-
18-02-2012 5:30pm#1
Comments
-
-
Why did you answer 'Atheist' Stinicker if you believe in God in the census
Anyway, sorry to see you having a hard time, lots of us Catholics are having a hard time - However, I will disagree with you that we as Catholics condone the rape of children, but I can see why the scandals can create an inner turmoil.
- I guess the first thing is to find out what you actually do believe and why for yourself, especially as regards Christ being a 'Christian'. There are very many Christian denominations, and then there are non denominational Christians too. It depends I guess on where you see yourself in relation to your faith. Most mainstream groups are represented on this forum - sorry to see you go, but the very best of luck, I hope you find peace.0 -
-
There are a lot of alternatives to Catholicism.
A good book to get you started would be Awareness by Anthony De Mellow, he was a Jesuit but in his book Awareness he never preached about the Adversary or fire and brimstone Walking on water is good too.
John Donoghue Anam Cara is easy on the conscious too .
I read John Moriarty Books but its heavy going but his writing is outside the box but if you have the eyes to see into the box your in for some surprise.
John Moriarty has a lecture online called "Prometheus and the Dolphin" Google it
0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
I was born and raised a Catholic like so many others in Ireland. I no longer consider my Catholic and no longer believe in the Catholic Church or want anything to do with them. I have no respect for a Religion that condones pedophillia and covers it up, refuses to allow their priests to have sex with women like normal people yet condones the rape of little Children!!
I no longer consider myself a Catholic and answered Atheist in last years Census, I do beleive in God and the afterlife but don't need the Criminal Catholic Church to act as a go between for my faith.
What other Christian religions offer a true alternative to the RCC?
The first question to ask yourself is if you ever believed in the doctrines of the Catholic church. You say you were born and raised Catholic but that of course doesn't have anything to do with whether you actually believed. There are plenty of Catholic web sites that can give you summaries of the core beliefs of Catholicism. Or you could talk to a priest.
If you did then the next question to ask is if the recent scandals are actually relevant to these beliefs. While I think all have been disgusted by the behavior of the Church hierarchy with relation to sexual abuse, you have to ask does this actually alter the core beliefs of the Church. Rejecting something you actually believe in just because others who claim to share that belief acted badly is a bit silly. I'm an atheist, the fact that Stalin was as well has no effect on my beliefs If the scandals have changed your beliefs with regard to the core beliefs of the Catholic church then obviously you are no longer a believing Catholic.
If you didn't ever really believe in the Catholic church then you were never a Catholic to begin with. Either way the next question is if you were ever a Christian to being with? You should study the beliefs common to all Christian denominations and if match what you believe (it is a bit more than God exists and there is an afterlife) then the next step would be to study the differences and decide which is closest to your personal interpretation of the Bible.
If you find nothing in Christianity that you believe, yet still believe in a god and an afterlife perhaps other religions would be worth exploring.0 -
Advertisement
-
-
-
Christian Churches in Ireland.
Baptist Church.
Church of Ireland/
Evangelical.
Methodist.
Plymouth Brethren.
Presbyterian.
Quaker/Friends.
Roman Catholic.
Obviously Roman Catholic being the dominant Church in the ROI, but seeing as you have disowned it I have crossed it out for you) 0 -
Christian Churches in Ireland.
Baptist Church.
Church of Ireland/
Evangelical.
Methodist.
Plymouth Brethren.
Presbyterian.
Quaker/Friends.
Roman Catholic.
Obviously Roman Catholic being the dominant Church in the ROI, but seeing as you have disowned it I have crossed it out for you)
Lumping "Evangelical" into one grouping is a bit silly... There are a lot of different Evangelical denominations, the major (Pentecostal) ones being Assemblies of God, Church of God, Vineyard, Elim, Plumbline (not techincally a denomination), etc... And the the other non-pentecostal ones...0 -
Northclare wrote: »There are a lot of alternatives to Catholicism.
A good book to get you started would be Awareness by Anthony De Mellow, he was a Jesuit but in his book Awareness he never preached about the Adversary or fire and brimstone Walking on water is good too.
John Donoghue Anam Cara is easy on the conscious too .
I read John Moriarty Books but its heavy going but his writing is outside the box but if you have the eyes to see into the box your in for some surprise.
John Moriarty has a lecture online called "Prometheus and the Dolphin" Google it
I like where you are going with these names, I even like that you renamed de Mello as De Mellow! A typing faux pas!
De Mello was of course, as you say, a Jesuit and very much in demand as a Catholic retreat director. A wonderful human being. He got into a bit of hot water with more traditional Catholics, as the Franciscan Fr Richard Rohr might be considered doing...
There is another Jesuit called Paul Coutinho who seems to be very much like de Mello, he's even part Indian. He will be giving a series of talks in Ireland on the subject of his new book 'How big is your God?' he will in the Jesuit church in Gardiner street on March 2nd at 7.30pm.
Fr. Coutinho, as a professor in Georgetown must be considered a big gun in the Jesuits, if that image is not heretical! I'm guessing he would be happy to answer any theological question anyone here might have.
Incidentally Fr. Gerard Manley Hopkins knew this church well, as a Jesuit, and his sense of God was certainly greater than mine or most people I know!
The crimes and mistakes of some of the Catholic hierarchy have been extremely painful for ordinary Catholics but as Zombrex says these car crashes to our attention can be a good time to really investigate what God and Catholicism really mean.
Whatever you decide to do, OP, just take your time.0 -
Christian Churches in Ireland.
Baptist Church.
Church of Ireland/
Evangelical.
Methodist.
Plymouth Brethren.
Presbyterian.
Quaker/Friends.
Roman Catholic.
Obviously Roman Catholic being the dominant Church in the ROI, but seeing as you have disowned it I have crossed it out for you)
No mention of the Unitarians or the Lutherans either? For shame.0 -
Christian Churches in Ireland.
Baptist Church.
Church of Ireland/
Evangelical.
Methodist.
Plymouth Brethren.
Presbyterian.
Quaker/Friends.
Roman Catholic.
Obviously Roman Catholic being the dominant Church in the ROI, but seeing as you have disowned it I have crossed it out for you)
The Redeemed Christian Church of God (a Nigerian Church) is the third largest denomination in the Irish Republic. Not pale enough for that list? 0 -
-
Cavehill Red wrote: »No mention of the Unitarians or the Lutherans either? For shame.
Easy on chaps, is was just a brief list off the top of my head.Lumping "Evangelical" into one grouping is a bit silly... There are a lot of different Evangelical denominations, the major (Pentecostal) ones being Assemblies of God, Church of God, Vineyard, Elim, Plumbline (not techincally a denomination), etc... And the the other non-pentecostal ones...
Dear Lord you lot are picky, I just inserted Evangelical so that it was on the list (off the top of my head), to be honest there are sooo many variations of so many denominations that you cuold be here all day sifting them out, then some bright spark will point out that I left out the lesser know 'Assembly of unorthodox brethern of outer mongolia' or some such . . . If somebody wants to makle a comprehensive list of every single variation of every single denomination then be my guest, and make sure not to leave one out 0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
Christian Churches in Ireland.
Baptist Church.
Church of Ireland/
Evangelical.
Methodist.
Plymouth Brethren.
Presbyterian.
Quaker/Friends.
Roman Catholic.
Obviously Roman Catholic being the dominant Church in the ROI, but seeing as you have disowned it I have crossed it out for you)
Coptic Church? Various Greek/Russian/Syrian Orthodox Churches0 -
-
Im still making my mind up about my spiritual beliefs but for me it all boils down to having peace of mind,helping other's being there for family and friends and not beating the ****e out myself in my head because things don't go my way.
Atheists and God heads can both live that way one day at a time.
It's a life time job 0 -
Northclare wrote: »Im still making my mind up about my spiritual beliefs but for me it all boils down to having peace of mind,helping other's being there for family and friends and not beating the ****e out myself in my head because things don't go my way.
Atheists and God heads can both live that way one day at a time.
It's a life time job
Well, at least you are clear about what you are looking for, as many people lurch from one faith to another to just find that they are different shades of the same thing.
The only difference you will find between two individuals or groups, is attitude, so maybe look for something that you don't feel uncomfortable with and doesn't seek to shoehorn you into stuff that goes against your sense of reason and balance? You seem to want something 'practical', but I don't really know how you can reconcile that with belief systems, as they are very often based on acceptance without question, elaboration and ritual.0 -
Just don't sit near the amplifiers or else bring some industrial ear plugs.HamletOrHecuba wrote: »Are you being serious?
About it being the third largest church in the State? Absolutely. They have well over 100 congregations & at least 20,000 members in Ireland, and have gathered 10,000 at one single meeting in Dublin. The same denomination, back in Nigeria, gather over 3.5 million each year for their annual Prayer Conference and have a building just outside Lagos that seats 1 million people (I've visited this and seen it with my own eyes).
About them being too pale to be on Lord Sutch's list? No, that was a little joke about how ethnocentric we tend to be here so as to miss out on huge social phenomena occurring under our very noses.
Sat through 3 hours and was almost deaf going home. 0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
Florence Old-fashioned Ace wrote: »Just don't sit near the amplifiers or else bring some industrial ear plugs.
Sat through 3 hours and was almost deaf going home.
It's not the amplifiers I'd be worried about, its the speakers (pun intended) 0 -
-
-
-
gimmebroadband wrote: »OP, you are basing your faith on sinners in the Church and not by what it teaches. Sure you'll find bad eggs everywhere, and in ALL religions. My faith is based on what the Church TEACHES and not by the wrongs some of the clergy did. Did Jesus pick out saints for his disciples, no he didn't, St. Augustine himself was a sinner who became saint!
.
'Some' of the clergy.
The current Pope has popped up in the news over allegations he oversaw the transfer of a dirty, sick, twisted, paedo priest, from one parish to another, in Germany. Fresh children to work on. Who cares? Certainly not these 'holier than thou' clergymen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hullermann
German Catholic Priest Admits to 280 Counts of Sexual Abuse
http://news.yahoo.com/german-catholic-priest-admits-280-counts-sexual-abuse-224600657.html
Admits to 280! How many more were there?
A list of 'some' of the allegations, listed by country.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10407559
My point is, the rot in the church goes right to the top. These guys in their robes and gold bling are in it for the money. Anyone who can't see that, good luck to you.
Some people like being told how to live. I don't. I'm not a child and I'm not interested in a paedo telling me I've sinned.0 -
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
There is no right or wrong church.
At the end of the day its a personal choice ill never listen to anyone who tells me which is the right or wrong church for me.
The catholic church has a lot to answer for.
There is good and bad everywhere but if its true that Mr Infallible sent a known sick bstrd from parish to parish well that says enough.
And stop making excuses for the catholic church as the hole is only getting bigger and bigger.
Infallible (yeah right)
The church of Ireland sounds more appealing 0 -
Northclare wrote: »There is no right or wrong church.
At the end of the day its a personal choice ill never listen to anyone who tells me which is the right or wrong church for me.
The catholic church has a lot to answer for.
There is good and bad everywhere but if its true that Mr Infallible sent a known sick bstrd from parish to parish well that says enough.
And stop making excuses for the catholic church as the hole is only getting bigger and bigger.
Infallible (yeah right)
The church of Ireland sounds more appealing
I too would rather see somebody at the expense of my particular 'Catholic' faith; commit to a Christian one, any Christian one, because they are most certainly my brothers and sisters, and a persons faith is worth more in their lifetime and being real to it, to them than understanding - but my Catholic faith, is imo the ultimate expression of Scripture and what it's all about - being united is the perfect expression, and there is only imo one expression of faith that calls for it - Christs Church.
In saying that, I think you misrepresent me and Catholics in general, and the idea of 'Church' or 'infallible' - the 'hole' is not filled in particularly by those who claim Christ and every other deity or let themselves be wrote on by same, you either belong to Christ or you don't, but fill it in with any kind of Spirituality that happens to suit, and is, absolutely, a very long mile from Christianity.
Christianity doesn't mean perfect people always - perhaps you need to look at this and understand exactly what following Christ as a Catholic means, and not jump the gun with some kind of spiritual understanding you have aquired outside the Gospels. It's not easy, it's not meant to be - but we don't dress it up with some kind of false newage spirituality either. Christ is Christ, Scripture is scripture, his Church is his Church no new age ingredients necessary to add or subtract or clarify his word.0 -
-
-
-
Northclare wrote: »I don't see catholic priests walking the streets of our villages towns and cities helping the poor and leading the morally deaf and blind to salvation.
I never spat on any church that's something that was created in your head.
Have you ever read any of Bishop Berkleys work.
Christian mystics are not mentioned in the church too often.
Oh, no, you don't see Catholics because you don't want to - we're there in every home that accepts the SVDP - every home that a priest phones in order to bring the Eucharist to old age folk who can't get out to mass - you would have to be there I guess - every home that every single Catholic goes to in order to express their faith in all it's patience and love.
Christian mystics are part and parcel of the Church, for heavens sake some of them are declared 'saints' - and not because of their 'mystic', but because they lived very Holy lives and brought people home to Christ.
In other words it's not mysticism that matters so much as the message of those saints who lived the Gospel. Mysticism or contemplation has it's place in Christianity, so long as it's guided and the contemplation is on Christ, but it can be dangerous if it's mixed with new age philosophy -
For instance, the 'law of attraction' that the 'secret' bestselling books message ecompasses is that one is responsible soley for themselves, not for any body else - in fact, if somebody emits 'negative' vibes you should seperate yourself from them in order to receive good things from the 'universe' and not associate with negative 'vibes'..
Heck, that's just mad imo, Jesus wants us to be responsible and actually questions us on how responsible we are to the underdog, the persecuted, the poor - he never asks us to step boldly over them in the name of the universe he wants us to be part of life, responsible for others, not contemplate ourselves beyond earth, meditate ourselves out of reality, but to be active, live life, love others, be part of life, and be couragous in our convictions. 0 -
Horses for courses.
I sense anger in you, maybe a few weeks in Mount Melery would be a good start.
They cater for people from all walks of life.
Your vision of the catholic church isn't as good as I thought it was.
People were filled with fear for centuries by priests telling them they will burn in hell for their sinful ways and hardly ever spoke about repentance or forgiveness.
How can someone have faith in someone who promotes burning in hell and all those beatings that were given out, is that promoting the church ?
And by the way I never spat on any church it might be a moral decision on your behalf to delete that vile comment
Do you drink late at night ?
Check out Mount Melery as I said their doors are open to everyone the prayer and meditation will do a person good
God bless you 0 -
Northclare wrote: »Horses for courses.
I sense anger in you, maybe a few weeks in Mount Melery would be a good start.
They cater for people from all walks of life.
Your vision of the catholic church isn't as good as I thought it was.
People were filled with fear for centuries by priests telling them they will burn in hell for their sinful ways and hardly ever spoke about repentance or forgiveness.
How can someone have faith in someone who promotes burning in hell and all those beatings that were given out, is that promoting the church ?
And by the way I never spat on any church it might be a moral decision on your behalf to delete that vile comment
Do you drink late at night ?
Check out Mount Melery as I said their doors are open to everyone the prayer and meditation will do a person good
God bless you
I'm not really sure what point you're making here - you appear to castigate the Catholic church for de-emphasising Christian mystics, which as lmaopml rightly points out simply isn't true (Hildegard of Bingen, St.Therese of Avila, Thomas Merton... and so on) but then praise Mount Mellary, which as far as I'm aware is a Trappist monastery (and Catholic).0 -
-
Advertisement
Advertisement