Category reorganisation (this is a big one)

Mint Sauce · 12-03-2015 9:29am

Dav wrote: »

Regional:

So we've taken Region out and given it a slight seperation from the rest of the site. There are a few reasons for this, but mostly the sorts of conversations that happen on the regional forums are quite different from the rest of the site. For example, if you're in Blanchardstown and you want an electrician, you're more likely to hit the D15 forum up rather than the Electrical as you're looking for someone specific to an area. You can have any number of different conversations on any number of different topics on the Regional forums, so giving them their own space makes a lot of sense to us.

One thhng i have noticed Dav, is the the NW Region, unlike all the other is that, there is not a Forum for the NW as well as the counties within this. Being a small region, there as questions or subjects, that may apply to the whole region, rather than just individual counties.

Edit

My bad, there is, although it is laid out diferently when you open up the NW forum. Still wonder why this is the case though.

cdeb · 12-03-2015 10:28am

I'll echo what's been said about the chess forum alright. Doesn't really fit with model-making, the paranormal and zombie survival!

Ditto Poker I'd say - lots of competitions there.

Darts is (correctly) in the sports forum though there's not much exertion involved - I think chess (and poker) should follow.

Hyzepher · 12-03-2015 10:38am

Not 100% sure Poker would fit in Sports. It is seen by a lot of poker players as a sport but thats not necessarily where people would go to find it. With the dwindling numbers on the forum placing it in sports may not be wise.

We may just have to put it under Gambling in the Rec section

Dades · 12-03-2015 11:30am

I'd support moving Chess to Sport, but definitely not Poker.

EDIT: I can also see Accomodation & Property belonging in Soc.

Lovely Bloke · 12-03-2015 12:29pm

Chess isn't sport lads, it's a game.

Black Swan · 12-03-2015 12:30pm

The new Science & Health category looks grand Dav.

Tabnabs · 12-03-2015 12:35pm

Maritime as a business sub forum seems bizarre, should be in Transport with the likes of Aviation.

The_Conductor · 12-03-2015 12:40pm

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Chess isn't sport lads, it's a game.

If my memory serves me right- its actually recognised as a sport by the International Olympic Committee....... So too are many other 'games' though.......

L1m1tless · 12-03-2015 12:48pm

in India, the 2012 sportsperson of the year was Viswanathan Anand - a chess player.

reunion · 12-03-2015 1:00pm

Rather than get into an argument about if chess is a sport or not, Ireland does not see chess as a sport but internationally it is a sport.

so for new/old foreign players, looking up sport to find chess would make sense before rec & hobbies (IMHO).

For Irish players, neither rec & hobbies or sport are a good fit. Sport suits players who play for >1 year and rec & hobbies suit players who play online every once in a while. Education could also be a location for it.

But out of the choices I have now, I'd have to go for sports since for Irish players it makes no difference (neither really suit) but for foreign players it would be one of the first avenues that they would consider.

cdeb · 12-03-2015 1:08pm

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Chess isn't sport lads, it's a game.

Either way, Sports as a forum makes a lot more sense than Recreation and Hobbies. Particularly when you look at what else is in R&H. It mayn't be ideal, but it's the best place for it IMO.

@OSI - no, computer games aren't recognised as a sport. Chess is (recognised by the IOC).

Harry Palmr · 12-03-2015 1:10pm

Why not have a Sports and Games combined category?

cdeb · 12-03-2015 1:10pm

Meant to suggest that actually.

Dades · 12-03-2015 1:18pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Why not have a Sports and Games combined category?

Well there's no "Games" catagory anymore. That Cat is really Computer Games now. Apart from Chess, the only other type of games are in the general tabletop and board gaming forum, which I don't think justifies renaming the Sports cat and sits quite happily in Rec & Hobbies.

I think "Sports" is big enough, and if Chess belongs there, great.

Ken. · 12-03-2015 1:25pm

In my opinion if they test for drugs under WADA its a sport.

cdeb · 12-03-2015 1:28pm

ken wrote: »

In my opinion if they test for drugs under WADA its a sport.

Not entirely sure if I agree with that, but there is drug testing in chess. See here for example.

Ken. · 12-03-2015 1:32pm

cdeb wrote: »

Not entirely sure if I agree with that, but there is drug testing in chess. See here for example.

That's what I was getting at. I only found out yesterday through a 'fun fact' in the star newspaper. Up to that I always thought of chess as a game but drug testing players puts it in the sports category for me from now on.

cdeb · 12-03-2015 1:36pm

Yeah, it was brought in a few years ago so chess could get IoC recognition (which it's got now) and maybe get into the Olympics (which obviously hasn't happened as yet)

For the record, it doesn't bother me as a chess player if it's a sport or not - but I do think the Sports section here fits better than R&H.

Dav · 12-03-2015 1:43pm

OK, let's not get derailed about chess, for what it's worth, and since my opinion carries most of the weight around here (:p), Chess *is* a sport, so lets proceed on that basis and I'll move it into the Sports category.

I'm going through the rest of the feedback, so please keep it coming, it's been a big help so far. I think bar a few small niggles, we're generally on the right path, yea? I'll be back later on today with more detailed comments and to let you know what's likely to change.

The Hill Billy · 12-03-2015 2:30pm

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Chess isn't sport lads, it's a game.

Soccer is a game too. :pac:

Please don't move it to Rec & Hobbies!

Beasty · 12-03-2015 2:34pm

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Soccer is a game too. :pac:

Please don't move it to Rec & Hobbies!

I will support this - along with Rugby, GAA, American Football and Pro Wrestling:p

tricky D · 12-03-2015 2:40pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Really??

That's baffling, why is it under business when no other transport related forum is? The vast bulk of that forum is directly transport and/or enthusiast related with few, if any, actual hard business topics in it.
Why is it different to motors, C&T, Trains & Rail, buses, Aviation & Aircraft all of which sit under one heading?

Incidentally what's the difference between trains and planes that one is a main cat and one sits under C&T?

Tabnabs wrote: »

Maritime as a business sub forum seems bizarre, should be in Transport with the likes of Aviation.

Agree with the above. X post from discussion in Maritime.

tricky D wrote: »

It should logically follow the Aircraft and Aviation category. Both have a bit of Biz, a bit of Rec, but Motoring and Transport is the best and apt category.

muffler · 12-03-2015 2:53pm

Mint Sauce wrote: »

My bad, there is, although it is laid out diferently when you open up the NW forum. Still wonder why this is the case though.

That was done a few years back to accommodate me when I was stepping down from modding the Sligo forum. At that time once you were a mod of the NW forum you were also mod of Donegal, Leitrim and Sligo by default so you couldn't step down from any of the county forums without stepping down from them all.

Im not into the technicalities but in order to accommodate my request there was basically another North West forum set up and whatever way the guys in the office worked it I was able to remain as mod of the other forums at the time.

Dav or one of the developers might be able to explain it a bit better than that though

2bts · 12-03-2015 6:53pm

Of the multitude of card and board games, the IOC recognise only Bridge and Chess as sports
see olympic.org/chess and olympic.org/content/the-ioc/recognised-sport-federations/federation27/

Mint Sauce · 12-03-2015 7:19pm

muffler wrote: »

That was done a few years back to accommodate me when I was stepping down from modding the Sligo forum. At that time once you were a mod of the NW forum you were also mod of Donegal, Leitrim and Sligo by default so you couldn't step down from any of the county forums without stepping down from them all.

Im not into the technicalities but in order to accommodate my request there was basically another North West forum set up and whatever way the guys in the office worked it I was able to remain as mod of the other forums at the time.

Dav or one of the developers might be able to explain it a bit better than that though

I vaguely remember asking the question along time ago my self, either of you in PM, in the staff room (when i modded sligo), or on the forum its self, when i think the discussion was on how to improve the place. Cant for the life of me remember the answer though.

Into The Blue · 12-03-2015 9:53pm

For the craic, can zombie survival be moved to survivalisim and self sufficiency?

Doctor DooM · 13-03-2015 10:44am

Myrddin wrote: »

Arts & Entertainment

The Sci-Fi and Fantasy sub-cat in Arts I'd question. At least for me personally, Doctor Who & Torchwood, Red Dwarf, Star Trek, Star Wars and Stargate franchises are all by far and away cemented in tv shows and films. If the goal is user friendliness and intuitiveness, then I'd be an advocate of moving the mentioned sub-cat/forums to the Entertainment category. As a user, I'd expect to find all those forums in the category that caters to tv and film, not the one that caters predominantly to creative arts etc.

There are many Doctor Who fans who will cut you for saying it's a TV show

There's IDW comics, Big Finish audio books (the first people who managed to get Tom Baker back), and the seemingly endless novels.

I'm pretty much sure for Stars War and Trek the same is true too.

I personally don't really feel it's a point worth arguing over, everyone knows Doctor Who is a TV show and Star Wars is a movie, but the hardcore for all of those franchises might get their noses out of joint. Just something to be aware of!

Dav · 13-03-2015 3:27pm

Right folk, I'm gonna re-do the lists with your suggestions, should get a revised set posted later on.

Myrddin · 13-03-2015 5:00pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

There are many Doctor Who fans who will cut you for saying it's a TV show There's IDW comics, Big Finish audio books (the first people who managed to get Tom Baker back), and the seemingly endless novels.

I'm pretty much sure for Stars War and Trek the same is true too.

I personally don't really feel it's a point worth arguing over, everyone knows Doctor Who is a TV show and Star Wars is a movie, but the hardcore for all of those franchises might get their noses out of joint. Just something to be aware of!

Of course, and as you say it's the same for Star Trek & Wars too. I'm coming at it from the point of popular opinion though, and intuitive usability, which perhaps could throw a few noses out of joint in the hardcore fan camps...but make much more sense for a lot more people potentially. As fans of all these franchises, some for a long long time, I feel that their roots are firmly planted in tv and film. Placing these forums alongside other Arts related forums just looks wrong, & feels wrong. My opinion only

The_Conductor · 13-03-2015 5:13pm

Myrddin wrote: »

Of course, and as you say it's the same for Star Trek & Wars too. I'm coming at it from the point of popular opinion though, and intuitive usability, which perhaps could throw a few noses out of joint in the hardcore fan camps...but make much more sense for a lot more people potentially. As fans of all these franchises, some for a long long time, I feel that their roots are firmly planted in tv and film. Placing these forums alongside other Arts related forums just looks wrong, & feels wrong. My opinion only

I was the librarian in the UCD Science Fiction and Fantasy Society for a few years. I know its been a while- but sci-fi books were and continue to be massive. Think of all the classics- Assimov, Heinlein, Philip K Dick, Douglas Adams, Ray Bradbury, etc etc. Or go a little further back- and you have the most influential science fiction writer of all time- H.G. Wells- but also remarkable authors like Jules Verne etc......

Science fiction does not sit happily under TV or Film for me- give me a good book any day of the week.........

Dades · 13-03-2015 5:52pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Science fiction does not sit happily under TV or Film for me- give me a good book any day of the week.........

I read SF almost exclusively, but that spills over into all things SF - movies, TV, etc. I doubt I'm alone in that.

The boards SF forum is pretty quiet with the exception of the "What are you reading?" thread. I can't help but wonder if the forum would benefit from relocating to somewhere like Entertainment.

Though I do also see your point.

wnolan1992 · 13-03-2015 6:01pm

An File wrote: »

Society & Culture

I would have expected Clearasil & Hormones and Oulwans & Oulfellas to be in "Social & Fun", but otherwise everything seems to make perfect sense. Impressive work!

LoonyLovegood wrote: »

Society and Culture

I think Clearasil and Hormones would do better under the Social and Fun category. It's more of a social forum than a cultural one.

Have to agree with AF and my esteemed co-mod. C&H doesn't really fit into Society and Culture at all if I'm honest. It's a social forum which focuses on a subset of society IMO. We can start a poll on the forum, but I think I can pre-empt the results tbh (unless I've totally misjudged the place for the past 4 years :pac:).

Other than that, good work guys. The reorganisation has needed doing for a while.

Myrddin · 13-03-2015 6:20pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

I was the librarian in the UCD Science Fiction and Fantasy Society for a few years. I know its been a while- but sci-fi books were and continue to be massive. Think of all the classics- Assimov, Heinlein, Philip K Dick, Douglas Adams, Ray Bradbury, etc etc. Or go a little further back- and you have the most influential science fiction writer of all time- H.G. Wells- but also remarkable authors like Jules Verne etc......

Science fiction does not sit happily under TV or Film for me- give me a good book any day of the week.........

Not disputing what you're saying, but Red Dwarf, Stargate, Star Wars, Star Trek & Doctor Who were specifically what I'm referring to. The franchises outside of those I'm not familiar with, so wouldn't presume to argue where they should go. The ones I mention though, are definitely a better fit in tv/film, given the association people have with them - despite whatever accompanying novels exist for them (imho).

Mr. G · 13-03-2015 10:47pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Technology and Internet:

Any chance the Mac forum could be moved out of Operating Systems and into Computers and Technology, or even Consumer Electronics? The forum has always been for the discussion of Mac hardware and software, not just the Mac operating system. This was never really an issue in the past, but since Apple Media Devices was renamed Apple Devices, it loses a lot of traffic to that forum. New users assume “devices” also means computers. The Apple Devices mods are good about moving threads over, but I get tired of reporting them all.

What would you do about topics on Windows-branded tablets?

Sad Professor · 13-03-2015 10:52pm

Mr. G wrote: »

What would you do about topics on Windows-branded tablets?

I’m not sure what you mean. There’s a forum for Windows mobile devices. My issue is just with the Mac forum, which is misplaced in the Operating Systems sub-category.

sdanseo · 14-03-2015 5:11am

Motoring and Transport

I'm not sure that the Infrastructure forum belongs in here. While transport infrastructure is the most popular topic of discussion, there are many topics in here that are not remotely related to motoring or transport. I'd say this would be better placed under science along with things like Engineering. That or perhaps have a category for the environment incorporating these types of forums?

Regional

I've noticed that for example with Dublin County North, there is a needless sub-forum to click through if you don't have the forum bookmarked. It's sorted East -> Dublin County North -> Dublin County North. A nitpick no doubt, but any chance the extra hop could be eliminated? Think this happens in a few other region boards also. Edit: this was mentioned in the OP as pointed out below. Nevermind!

They're my only two cents here, everything else looks great and very much more organised. Sterling work as usual guys

CabanSail · 14-03-2015 8:44am

Maybe the whole Politics Category should be a sub-section of either Recreation & Hobbies, Sports or Entertainment?

Hat, Coat .... Door.

Beasty · 14-03-2015 10:57am

sdanseo wrote: »

Regional

I've noticed that for example with Dublin County North, there is a needless sub-forum to click through if you don't have the forum bookmarked. It's sorted East -> Dublin County North -> Dublin County North. A nitpick no doubt, but any chance the extra hop could be eliminated? Think this happens in a few other region boards also.

From the OP:

Dav wrote: »

We'rte no deleting anything except some superfluous sub-categories like you'll see in Region -> Dublin County South -Dublin County South for example.

looksee · 14-03-2015 12:18pm

Oulwans an Oulfellas - There really does not seem to be any great desire in O&O to get into aging issues. The vast majority of posts are chatty and light. A feedback thread was offered and did not get much response. There have been a couple of minor attempts to discuss implications of illness, but they have been treated in a very positive way rather than discussing the problems. Which is fine, that is obviously what people want to do.

I have given some thought to figuring this out, without a lot of result. I suspect it is a combination of:
- very few of the O&Os are over 70 and only a handful are over 60. The forum needs time for people to get old enough to be in the older age group, given computer literacy etc.

- Those who are on the site may have problems, but they don't want to be identified as such (there is an anon option, but I don't think it has been used at all) they would rather just keep it cheerful. I have seen an instance of someone elsewhere on the site saying rather disparagingly that they would not post in O&O as they were not 'old enough' - mentally, they meant. Though the overall effect in O&O is self-deprecating aging and not the slight grouchiness that the poster was exhibiting.

- There is a bit of a sense that real life is enough of a challenge, lets keep it chatty and social here. Which is fine.

What I am getting to in a long winded way is that, O&O appears to be more suited to 'Social and Fun' the way it is operating at the moment. I am a bit reluctant saying that as my original notion was that there was a social service to be offered, in the sense of pension advice, health issues etc, but there really doesn't seem to be the demand for it. I am a bit on the fence about it, and I suppose, tbh being a bit earnest, and kind of against my Hyacinth Bouquet tendencies, it should be in S&F.

dball · 14-03-2015 8:55pm

Vaping & E-Smoking
Possibly worth considering giving this its own sub category as many vapers will tell you were not giving up smoking were choosing to vape instead.

Smoking has its own subcategory and I think Vaping should have the same acknowledgement

I just dont know if a subcategory of giving up smoking is the correct placement
eg: Smoking, Beer, Wine and Spirits & Coffee tea etc

tricky D · 15-03-2015 9:06pm

Dav wrote: »

We're not deleting anything except some superfluous sub-categories like you'll see in Region -> Dublin County South -Dublin County South for example.

Can or will the same be done for Film > Film and all other ones with the same parent and child category names?

evolving_doors · 15-03-2015 9:25pm

Teaching and Lecturing ----> Secondary Teaching

The lecturing component has always been a bit of a tumbleweed on the T&L forum to my mind. There was an odd few primary teachers knocking about so it'll be sad to cut the apron strings and move on to big school

.

The Teaching Abroad sub forum raises an anomaly though if the T&L is to become the new Secondary. TA encompasses TEFL, Primary, Secondary and the odd universities, maybe a forum on it's own!
It's a pretty hot topic considering the numbers emigrating and the demand for such superb Irish teachers:D. It might need a new mod though as generally we let em at it until I get reported posts or spot some blatant spam. Within that sub-forum education recruiting agencies need to be handled by someone in the know as there's a fine line between advertising/information and outright scammers (there's a few long term posters in that forum that would be good mods if needs be).

Educational theory sub forum is a bit 'quiet'.

looksee · 16-03-2015 12:00am

Regardless of which forum ends up where, I think the two titles 'Social and Fun' and 'Society and Culture' are going to cause endless confusion, they are too similar sounding.

Aard · 16-03-2015 8:00pm

Motoring and Transport
I really dislike the name. In "Commuting and Transport" for example, very little of the discussion has to do with cars, and is more concerned with bus/rail services and maybe even cycling.

I think that having "Motoring" as the first part of the name of the category gives the wrong impression of the type of posts that are encouraged. There are often, for example, "motorists vs cyclists" threads and the likes, and having "Motoring" in the title is just emphasising this adversarial standpoint.

sdanseo wrote: »

Motoring and Transport

I'm not sure that the Infrastructure forum belongs in here. While transport infrastructure is the most popular topic of discussion, there are many topics in here that are not remotely related to motoring or transport. I'd say this would be better placed under science along with things like Engineering. That or perhaps have a category for the environment incorporating these types of forums?

I agree to a certain extent. In reality, a lot of Infrastructure posts are transport-related. I think that having a "Transport & Environment" category or something along those lines could work well. Also bring in Construction and Planning, Sustainability & Environmental Issues, Aviation & Aircraft, even Architecture. It's a very difficult subject to draw boundaries on.

Beasty · 16-03-2015 9:12pm

Aard wrote: »

Motoring and Transport

I think that having "Motoring" as the first part of the name of the category gives the wrong impression of the type of posts that are encouraged. There are often, for example, "motorists vs cyclists" threads and the likes, and having "Motoring" in the title is just emphasising this adversarial standpoint.

Motors is one of the most popular forums on the site and already attracts around twice as much traffic as the rest of the proposed category (looking at both posts and threads to date). Including "motoring" in the category title is likely to make it easier to find the forum and probably boost its traffic, which is presumably one of the main purposes of this reorganisation.

Avada · 18-03-2015 2:35am

For me, the infrastructure forum should not be here, it suggests that the forum is transport infrastructure only, which it really isn't.

Polar101 · 18-03-2015 11:12am

Regional
It was mentioned that some subcategories will be deleted in Regions, hopefully that means getting rid of this:

Region > East > Dublin County West > Dublin 15

Currently it's a Dunnes Stores store locator style "what country do you live in? What county? what post code?" trek to get to the D15 forum.. why not have it under "East"?

Dav · 18-03-2015 12:53pm

But if you're finding it hard to navigate to, why isn't it on your "Followed" list so it's always available on your My Forums menu?

Infrastructure needs to find a better home, I'll work on that today along with the rest of the feedback, thank you very much folks.

Peregrine · 18-03-2015 10:52pm

I don't think Maritime belongs in Business & Finance, I think it should be in Motoring & Transport with Aviation & Aircraft and the like.

Infrastructure is a tough one. While transport infrastructure are popular topics, there's plenty of other debates going on. Recent topics include the metric system, census and postcodes. I think Society and Culture might be the best place to put it.

"Chess, sport or not?" is a whole other discussion and is probably just a matter of opinion.

And I echo what others have said about C&H and O&O but I see there are already discussions going on in both forums about this.

Dont be at yourself · 19-03-2015 2:06pm

Can I suggest changing 'Computer Games' to 'Videogames' [or Video Games, at a push!] -- the latter is much more widely used these days and applicable in a much broader context than 'Computer Games', which increasingly comes across as the gaming equivalent of 'motion picture' for movies.

Category reorganisation (this is a big one)

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