Eircom fibre for direct to exchange news?

billyduk · 24-01-2015 8:43pm

Got a return contact on my expression of interest for eFibre... the max speed I can get on my newly enabled DF line 2.3km from the exchange is????? 7MB... <deflated trombone music> This is roughly what I am getting without eFibre. I'm ignorant to telecoms tech and I fully expected significant falloff, but this doesn't seem right...

ED E · 24-01-2015 8:46pm

billyduk wrote: »

Got a return contact on my expression of interest for eFibre... the max speed I can get on my newly enabled DF line 2.3km from the exchange is????? 7MB... <deflated trombone music> This is roughly what I am getting without eFibre. I'm ignorant to telecoms tech and I fully expected significant falloff, but this doesn't seem right...

Its short range optimized. Great speeds within 500m, nada past 2k.

NB: This graph is very conservative. With vectoring the drop off isnt quite that steep.

If I was you I would NOT take up fibre. Upload will be better, but the minimum profile is 7Mb, so it may end up being borderline and not very stable.

yuloni · 24-01-2015 8:58pm

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Gonzo · 24-01-2015 9:21pm

yuloni wrote: »

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I guess that is why they don't bother to connect people to cabinets if they are not living within a densely populated housing estate. Those who live within a close to far range to the cabinet but live on a street instead of the housing estate don't get connected to the cabinet as Eircom's eFibre is useless to most people beyond 1.2km as their ADSL2+ speeds are probably better.

Im 2km from a cabinet but will be left waiting anything from a minimum of 4 years to anything up to 30 years before the NBP start's connecting people up!

By the time the NBP gets going even speeds of 30meg will be not that great by then so hopefully Eircom are looking at proper FTTH for the rest of us. Those who are on eFibre who suffer low speeds beyond 1km should be moved to the NBP too I reckon.

ED E · 24-01-2015 9:31pm

yuloni wrote: »

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Gonna edit that post, the graph is old.

kaizersoze · 24-01-2015 9:33pm

yuloni wrote: »

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That graph isn't 'real world' though and doesn't look like it accounts for vectoring. I've seen connections at 500/600mtr pulling ~60 meg down.

dimsumss · 24-01-2015 9:37pm

planned means nothing,even just installed means 6 months wait

billyduk · 24-01-2015 9:45pm

ED E wrote: »

Its short range optimized. Great speeds within 500m, nada past 2k.

NB: This graph is very conservative. With vectoring the drop off isnt quite that steep.

If I was you I would NOT take up fibre. Upload will be better, but the minimum profile is 7Mb, so it may end up being borderline and not very stable.

Thanks for the post. That is quite a cliff...:eek:

Ya I told Eircom as much (Got a little satisfaction from the deflated trombone sound of the salespersons voice). It's just frustrating as I run a business from an outbuilding conversion in my home and deal in high volume DL/UL of large media files (about 20/10GB DL/UL volume per day) on a daily basis. At the moment we have to plan this and run the process overnight so that we don't get bottlenecked during the day. It's embarrassing. We don't need to move as the office can cater for another 8 desks comfortably, but we will have to if we continue to grow and can't get the service required to enable us to work efficiently. That's a significant overhead added to the business for something as trivial as decent broadband.

yuloni · 24-01-2015 9:49pm

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bk · 24-01-2015 9:51pm

yuloni wrote: »

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While very informative, that graph is out of date and doesn't reflect Eircoms VDSL2 with vectoring.

Eircoms VDSL definitely well out performs ADSL2+ out to at least 1.2km

godskitchen · 24-01-2015 10:19pm

billyduk wrote: »

Thanks for the post. That is quite a cliff...:eek:

Ya I told Eircom as much (Got a little satisfaction from the deflated trombone sound of the salespersons voice). It's just frustrating as I run a business from an outbuilding conversion in my home and deal in high volume DL/UL of large media files (about 20/10GB DL/UL volume per day) on a daily basis. At the moment we have to plan this and run the process overnight so that we don't get bottlenecked during the day. It's embarrassing. We don't need to move as the office can cater for another 8 desks comfortably, but we will have to if we continue to grow and can't get the service required to enable us to work efficiently. That's a significant overhead added to the business for something as trivial as decent broadband.

Can you not find someone closer to the cabinet and relay that connection to your place? There's really not a lot to it if you have clear line of sight.

billyduk · 24-01-2015 10:31pm

godskitchen wrote: »

Can you not find someone closer to the cabinet and relay that connection to your place? There's really not a lot to it if you have clear line of sight.

Good idea, but unfortunately its a no-go. The only neighbours I know on those terms are either side of me and they are DF also.

dbit · 26-01-2015 9:55am

It is sad to learn that you are DF and to sit here trying to speculate or eek out the info that they don't supply and to wonder will it improve my situation or not . 4-5 months and sadly this has caused me to have to move for the same reasons , My job i need to have industry standard broadband . I don't want to leave the area i am in but the pipes demand it . God damn you to hell DF lines.

MBSnr · 26-01-2015 11:23am

billyduk wrote: »

Got a return contact on my expression of interest for eFibre... the max speed I can get on my newly enabled DF line 2.3km from the exchange is????? 7MB... <deflated trombone music> This is roughly what I am getting without eFibre. I'm ignorant to telecoms tech and I fully expected significant falloff, but this doesn't seem right...

Interesting... I'm at 2.5Km and would take the 7Mb/1Mb profile (which I hope is an option to me) as it's an improvement over my ADSL 6Mb/384kb. Even just to reduce the contention issues alone. Fed up of it working fine then 'oh look buffering'....

PFFFFFFFFFT · 27-01-2015 11:32pm

I live really close to the exchange (50-100m) and I only get 6Mb DL and .5 Mb UL.First of all,why is this?Why am I getting so low speeds when I live right by the exchange?My exchange has turned Blue on the NGA map.When eFibre does come to my exchange,will I get high speeds despite the low speeds I get right now?

Zack Morris · 27-01-2015 11:36pm

PFFFFFFFFFT wrote: »

I live really close to the exchange (50-100m) and I only get 6Mb DL and .5 Mb UL.First of all,why is this?Why am I getting so low speeds when I live right by the exchange?My exchange has turned Blue on the NGA map.When eFibre does come to my exchange,will I get high speeds despite the low speeds I get right now?

Post a screenshot of your router's stats. What's the name of your exchange/hometown? Your exchange might only be enabled for 8Mb.

hesker · 27-01-2015 11:47pm

godskitchen wrote: »

Can you not find someone closer to the cabinet and relay that connection to your place? There's really not a lot to it if you have clear line of sight.

So how does this work. Do you have to install some kind of transmitter at the source and receiver at the other end.

ED E · 28-01-2015 12:18am

PFFFFFFFFFT wrote: »

I live really close to the exchange (50-100m) and I only get 6Mb DL and .5 Mb UL.First of all,why is this?Why am I getting so low speeds when I live right by the exchange?My exchange has turned Blue on the NGA map.When eFibre does come to my exchange,will I get high speeds despite the low speeds I get right now?

Thats a 7Mb package, so its probably an ADSL1 exchange. Ask your provider if its possible to upgrade to a 24Mb package. If its not, they havent fitted ADSL2+ racks in the exchange yet.

hesker wrote: »

So how does this work. Do you have to install some kind of transmitter at the source and receiver at the other end.

A modem and a ubiquiti point to point link back to the real premises, then another router or access point there to connect devices too.

Barry5714 · 28-01-2015 11:17am

I also live in a small village where the exchange is only ADSL enabled get 6MB download speed 2km from exchange..

Would it not be better to upgrade these areas to ADSL2+ where alot more people could benefit from higher speeds cause from what i understand EVDSL is only gonna reach about 1km??

ED E · 28-01-2015 11:20am

When they run the fibre backhaul to the remote exchanges then they can fit ADSL2+ cards easily. Problem now is the bandwidth usually isnt there to support the increased load.

Barry5714 · 28-01-2015 11:31am

ED E wrote: »

When they run the fibre backhaul to the remote exchanges then they can fit ADSL2+ cards easily. Problem now is the bandwidth usually isnt there to support the increased load.

Hopefully they can find a way of doing this, i'd probably get close to 12MB then which i'd be happy with for a few years anyway and i'm sure alot of other people in my situation would be as well

MBSnr · 28-01-2015 12:39pm

Barry5714 wrote: »

Hopefully they can find a way of doing this, i'd probably get close to 12MB then which i'd be happy with for a few years anyway and i'm sure alot of other people in my situation would be as well

My local exchange is on the fibre backbone but only ADSL1. I'd have over double my speed with ADSL2+.... Imagine. :eek:

bk · 28-01-2015 1:40pm

Barry5714 wrote: »

I also live in a small village where the exchange is only ADSL enabled get 6MB download speed 2km from exchange..

Would it not be better to upgrade these areas to ADSL2+ where alot more people could benefit from higher speeds cause from what i understand EVDSL is only gonna reach about 1km??

Actually VDSL can operate over long distances and performs roughly the same as ADSL2+ over long distances.

So far they are limiting people who can get VDSL to those only within 2km because so far VDSL has mostly been only rolled out to areas that already have ADSL2+ and there is no point moving them over the VDSL as they will see no change.

However as they enable EVDSL and install it in more rural exchanges that are ADSL1 only, then I'd imagine they will enable VDSL2 for people much further out to give then ADSL2+ type speeds. Just speculation, no confirmation of this yet, but it seems logical.

dbit · 28-01-2015 1:50pm

Kamasutra has invented a new sex position it's called the "Eircom appointment" you stay in all day and no one comes.

lucernarian · 28-01-2015 8:46pm

bk wrote: »

Actually VDSL can operate over long distances and performs roughly the same as ADSL2+ over long distances.

So far they are limiting people who can get VDSL to those only within 2km because so far VDSL has mostly been only rolled out to areas that already have ADSL2+ and there is no point moving them over the VDSL as they will see no change.

However as they enable EVDSL and install it in more rural exchanges that are ADSL1 only, then I'd imagine they will enable VDSL2 for people much further out to give then ADSL2+ type speeds. Just speculation, no confirmation of this yet, but it seems logical.

A lot of it has to do with valuable ports. Why waste it on someone who gets a 25% to 50% speed boost when others can get double or triple their existing speeds? I know cabinets in Drogheda in particular (except for those at the edges of the town on radial routes out) are often extended and would contain easily over 200 lines in various locations.

But any line would benefit from a reduction in line length and it's annoying to see underused cabinets, like DBC010/DBC014 where half of the citizenry of Tullyallen have 1 mbit max connections even though those cabinets are 3km to 4km away. Scores of lines could be covered but two VDSL2 cabinets between them are serving less than 50 lines currently? Madness.

I will give eircom a clap on the back when these situations can be sorted out but to my mind, leaving cabinets upgraded and underutilized is just incompetent. Termonfeckin (TFN) has 2 or 3 cabinets, 2 of which are 2 to 3 km away from the exchange itself and ironically I don't think anyone within the village/town are able to access eFibre - at least they get >18 mbit ADSL2+

Btw bk, do you have any tech documents or sources that show VDSL2's long range abilities? I found it very hard to google for such searches and I don't have enough tech knowledge to sift through the specs themselves. The wiki source is broken too.

PFFFFFFFFFT · 30-01-2015 1:56pm

Wait...so,when my exchange gets upgraded to eFibre (It's blue at the moment), would I be able to get high speeds even though my exchange is ADSL1 at the moment?D:

Gonzo · 30-01-2015 3:36pm

PFFFFFFFFFT wrote: »

Wait...so,when my exchange gets upgraded to eFibre (It's blue at the moment), would I be able to get high speeds even though my exchange is ADSL1 at the moment?D:

if your very close to the exchange you should do grand, it's all depending on your line length rather than road distance to exchange.

ED E · 30-01-2015 3:44pm

PFFFFFFFFFT wrote: »

Wait...so,when my exchange gets upgraded to eFibre (It's blue at the moment), would I be able to get high speeds even though my exchange is ADSL1 at the moment?D:

VDSL2 will service those within 1800m of the exchange. If you're on ADSL1 now they may fit ADSL2+ cards that you could be swapped to if outside the VDSL2 coverage area.

PFFFFFFFFFT · 30-01-2015 4:03pm

ED E wrote: »

VDSL2 will service those within 1800m of the exchange. If you're on ADSL1 now they may fit ADSL2+ cards that you could be swapped to if outside the VDSL2 coverage area.

I'm only about 50-100m from my exchange lol.So that means I'll get VDSL2?

ED E · 30-01-2015 4:18pm

PFFFFFFFFFT wrote: »

I'm only about 50-100m from my exchange lol.So that means I'll get VDSL2?

Yep, 60 or 70Mb to start with, more later with vectoring most likely.

PFFFFFFFFFT · 30-01-2015 4:36pm

ED E wrote: »

Yep, 60 or 70Mb to start with, more later with vectoring most likely.

Nice!Do you have an idea of when they're gonna finish rolling out eFibre for Exchange Only lines?

ED E · 30-01-2015 5:23pm

So,

This has come up a couple times and I wanted to have a look. Why is eircoms VDSL2 running up to 2KM at best, not 3KM and thus a lot lower than ADSL2+ which can function at 6KM(slowly).

Well, first thing is profiles:

Eircom/Huawei have decided that the minimum profile is 7Mb_1Mb whereas ADSL products go as low as 128Kb_64Kb. That means ADSL will prequalify on a line that will barely barely get the tone at the far end. But thats only a small factor, even if they allowed a 1_0.5Mb profile we'd only get an extra few hundred meters based on current charts.

BB Forum.org have published a nice summary (see sources) of current xDSL technologies. This is an interesting table:

And more so, this graph:

Note:
30Mhz: Over 200Mb at 0M, ending at 3KM
12Mhz: Circa 100Mb at 0M, ending at 1.5KM

Seems we fit right smack in the middle of the two doesnt it? Eircom are using 17A (as some modems will tell you):

Compared to wiki:

So eircom using the 17A profile is the range limit. Thats the standard theyve chosen. People have mentioned that the VDSL2 cards could reach further, yes, but not without a big change in thinking from eircom, and the decision was probably made for a good reason.

Then theres eVDSL as eircom call it, or exchange launched VDSL. The solution for "direct fed" lines. How does that match up?

Currently the CLFMP from eircom and COMREG limits as follows:

Its safe to assume though that this has been ratified upwards to match cabinets, or at least to 12Mhz. I know a trialist on 40Mb and it doesnt seem likely they'd get that with only 2Mhz to go on (am I correct here JCA/Hackery/Spacetime?). The maps include eVDSL for a while so somethings moved along anyways but hasnt been published yet. They may or may not go the full way to 17Mhz, maybe more like 12Mhz, or go all out crazy and use 30Mhz. We'll have to see. 12Mhz wouldnt be terrible as eVDSL is really there to service the core of towns, not reach areas, they should be done with cabs and network rearrangement.

Lastly I've just glanced at the topic we touched on before, and I think I was wrong with, of the co-existence of ADSL, VDSL, ISDN and PSTN services coming from the MDF outward on main cables.This doc gives a laymans explanation of the potential issues:

The present spectrum allocation proposals use the ADSL downstream frequency band for VDSL downstream as well. From the point of view of the crosstalk between ADSL and VDSL, there is a subtle difference between the two configurations of Figure 1. In the FTTEx* case the presence of the VDSL does not affect ADSL performance, because VDSL power spectral density (PSD) is less than ADSL PSD. Conversely, the presence of ADSL in the same binder may have a serious impact on VDSL performance. In FTTCab configuration the situation is reversed. VDSL signals from the ONU may generate unacceptable noise levels for the ADSL downstream signal, as it becomes heavily attenuated along the path from CO to ONU [1].

*eVDSL AKA FTTEx

We knew part of this already, VDSL can only Vector for modems that the DSLAM is talking to, so ADSL lines running parallel cannot contribute data to reduce FEXT or Far End Crosstalk. They'll slow VDSL lines to some extent, but as theyre weaker by the time they reach the PCP cab it may not be significant, and as VDSL takeup increases ADSL use proportionally decreases. Better vectoring, less "bad lines". Beat your neighbour with a stick until he upgrades

The bad news here is that page suggests the noise for extended reach DSL lines that are already very weak when they pass a VDSL cab. Eircoms CLFMP does mention this though, but its importance Im unsure of:

Theres more that could probably be added here, but I havent the time right now. I'll update it later to fact fix and add anything else thats notable.

Sources:
http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg1472.pdf
http://www.broadband-forum.org/downloads/About_DSL.pdf Kudos to those lads
www.eircomwholesale.ie/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=1166

Hackery · 30-01-2015 6:01pm

Good post

MBSnr · 30-01-2015 6:10pm

Am I right in assuming that Eircom could use the 8b profile for eVDSL then? If so the top end speed is 50Mbits/s but the downstream power (20.5db instead of 14.5 db) is higher to overcome direct feed line issues and increase the reach?

ED E · 30-01-2015 6:24pm

For xTalk reasons they probably want to keep the transmit power low at exchanges, keep it low relative to ADSL which will be in use for the longest lines for a while.

bk · 31-01-2015 12:14pm

Excellent research and investigation ED E, thanks.

lucernarian · 03-02-2015 1:02am

ED E wrote:

Eircom/Huawei have decided that the minimum profile is 7Mb_1Mb whereas ADSL products go as low as 128Kb_64Kb. That means ADSL will prequalify on a line that will barely barely get the tone at the far end. But thats only a small factor, even if they allowed a 1_0.5Mb profile we'd only get an extra few hundred meters based on current charts.

That "extra few hundred metres" may not be true in quite a lot of cases. Not because of problems with the chart but the placing of cabinets is not consistent across towns and cities within Ireland. 2 of the 3 cabinets in Termonfeckin are about 2km away from the exchange and VDSL to all distances there would make a huge difference to dozens of customers and businesses.

BB Forum.org have published a nice summary (see sources) of current xDSL technologies. This is an interesting table:

There's a big problem with that table. For the basic variant of DSL, they report a max speed of G.dmt as 7 Mbit when this presentation from the ITU says it's 8 Mbps and indeed eircom used and still use ADSL1 to provide their "up to 8 mbps" service.

Apparently there was a good reason when eircom limited all their 512 kpbs and above connections to lines reaching about 5.5 km. It was based on the attenuation measurements I think and in my old home, apparently it was 78 dB though with their 1 km = 12 dB rule of thumb, this was an accurate estimate of the distance (which would never qualify). One day, in one fell swoop, eircom decided that the attenuation limit for all lines could be increased from 66 to 72 and then after another couple of months, 78. When we finally got DSL we got a very comfortable 1 mbps with 14 dB signal margin and 53 dB attenuation. You wouldn't think that was possible for me or my neighbours who also get this, by looking at those graphs.

bk · 03-02-2015 10:54am

^^^

Yes, these graphs are very conservative and should only be taken as a general guideline of the differences between the different tech rather then exact numbers.

ED E · 03-02-2015 12:01pm

lucernarian wrote: »

That "extra few hundred metres" may not be true in quite a lot of cases. Not because of problems with the chart but the placing of cabinets is not consistent across towns and cities within Ireland. 2 of the 3 cabinets in Termonfeckin are about 2km away from the exchange and VDSL to all distances there would make a huge difference to dozens of customers and businesses.

The catchment area in between 2000m and 2150m or 2200m is going to be very small. Probably made a cost/benefit call for these lines. They can always add additional profiles in a year or two and reprequal.

There's a big problem with that table. For the basic variant of DSL, they report a max speed of G.dmt as 7 Mbit when this presentation from the ITU says it's 8 Mbps and indeed eircom used and still use ADSL1 to provide their "up to 8 mbps" service.

Apparently there was a good reason when eircom limited all their 512 kpbs and above connections to lines reaching about 5.5 km. It was based on the attenuation measurements I think and in my old home, apparently it was 78 dB though with their 1 km = 12 dB rule of thumb, this was an accurate estimate of the distance (which would never qualify). One day, in one fell swoop, eircom decided that the attenuation limit for all lines could be increased from 66 to 72 and then after another couple of months, 78. When we finally got DSL we got a very comfortable 1 mbps with 14 dB signal margin and 53 dB attenuation. You wouldn't think that was possible for me or my neighbours who also get this, by looking at those graphs.

Eircoms old racks give out 7.61Mb LT cards in ADSL1 exchanges, this is often rounded down to 7Mb. NGN exchanges have 2+ cards and can do the full 8(or 24).

Its conservative on the ADSL distance, but it really can depend on the cable quality and noise.

dbit · 04-02-2015 12:15pm

Top notch research ED will use that as a baseline in future . Fantastic Job .

lucernarian · 04-02-2015 1:53pm

ED E wrote: »

The catchment area in between 2000m and 2150m or 2200m is going to be very small. Probably made a cost/benefit call for these lines. They can always add additional profiles in a year or two and reprequal.

Eircoms old racks give out 7.61Mb LT cards in ADSL1 exchanges, this is often rounded down to 7Mb. NGN exchanges have 2+ cards and can do the full 8(or 24).

Its conservative on the ADSL distance, but it really can depend on the cable quality and noise.

They do have racks that allow 8128 profiles though, I had such an ADSL1 connection in or around June 2010 from the Merrion exchange. Specifically not ADSL2. I presume I was connected to a normal Alcatel-Lucent DSLAM. Also this ITU presentation seems to suggest that 8 Mbps is the top speed of the standard also. I thought the 7616 kpbs "max speed" came from the use of interleaving in a particular way (like a high interleave depth) or that the interleave path had a lower potential max speed than using fastpath. I can't remember exactly the difference but I will search the archives later.

ED E · 04-02-2015 3:36pm

lucernarian wrote: »

They do have racks that allow 8128 profiles though, I had such an ADSL1 connection in or around June 2010 from the Merrion exchange. Specifically not ADSL2. I presume I was connected to a normal Alcatel-Lucent DSLAM. Also this ITU presentation seems to suggest that 8 Mbps is the top speed of the standard also. I thought the 7616 kpbs "max speed" came from the use of interleaving in a particular way (like a high interleave depth) or that the interleave path had a lower potential max speed than using fastpath. I can't remember exactly the difference but I will search the archives later.

Yeah, had a look further:

It should also be pointed out that whilst BTw state that applying interleaving shouldn't reduce your line speed, it does reduce the maximum line rate achievable from 8128kbps to 7616kbps due to the additional overhead required for check bytes.
Note: although BT state 7616 is maximum sync speed with interleaving, many instances of higher sync speeds have been reported by users. This is dependent upon your router being able to support S=1/2 mode which effectively combines two RS code words into a larger logical code word of 510 bytes (ANSI T1.413)

Read more: http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm#ixzz3QmpCOxPn

I've seen a struggling modem falling back to ADSL and using the 7.6 profile, so it might be set as the default profile after a certain number of sync brokers.

ClonNGB · 25-02-2015 2:45pm

Anybody know if Commreg have approved EVDSL for the direct fed lines ? Where is it now ? Eircom were talking last year about early 2015, but nothing yet. I can't understand why such a delay.

mailsanchu · 25-02-2015 2:56pm

This is what i have
========================
As yet the eVDSL rollout has not commenced. There are still regulatory elements underway therefore the launch has not occured. We would anticipate that this would commence in March however there is no guarantee as this is outside our control.

Unfortunately I do not have any further information at this point.

bk · 27-02-2015 2:04pm

Ok, some really good news, I've heard that eVDSL has gotten the go ahead and that the following exchanges will go live on the 18/03/2014:

AFD1
CRT1
LCN1
RUY1
ASN1
CRW1
LHA1
SAN1
BBS1
CTY1
LKD1
SHN1
BCA1
CVN1
MAH1
SKS1
BDT1
DBN1
MGN1
SND1
BLP1
DBT1
MGR1
SRL1
BMN1
DGS1
MHZ1
STN1
BRN2
DNN1
MNT1
THS1
BSE1
DNU1
MSN1
TLR1
BTE1
DSN1
MYN1
TRM1
BUO1
FBK1
NAS1
TWV1
BWM1
FNG1
NWT1
VGA1
CAB1
FOX1
OGT1
WAL1
CEL1
GMR1
PGS1
WST1
CHD1
GRS1
PMK1
CLS1
ISL1
PRP1
CLT1
KDN1
RCL1
CNR1
KGN1
RSL1
CPH1
KLO1
RTD1
CRL1
KME1
RUS1

bk · 27-02-2015 2:06pm

This is great news as it means a lot more people will finally get access to high speed broadband

Please note, that of course the above date and list could slip or change, no guarantee.

dbit · 27-02-2015 2:07pm

bk wrote: »

This is great news as it means a lot more people will finally get access to high speed broadband

Please note, that of course the above date and list could slip or change, no guarantee.

You de man well done super find!! where pray tell did you dig this up ?

dbit · 27-02-2015 2:08pm

Dammit no sign of MRMA balls....... macroom is going to rot.

bk · 27-02-2015 2:09pm

dbit wrote: »

You de man well done super find!! where pray tell did you dig this up ?

Ah, you know, here and there :P

dbit · 27-02-2015 2:12pm

i need to live near this one, just for its name sake DBT1

Eircom fibre for direct to exchange news?

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