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SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

12357…159

Comments

  • #202
    football_lover
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭football_lover


    murphaph wrote: »
    You may make some good points (farms need to be able to avail of quality broadband as well as farming is becoming more and more high tech) but to be honest you ruin any valid points you have by pretending that rural one off housing is not even a problem/issue.

    The vast vast majority of people living in one off housing do not work on the land and don't even work in associated sectors (vets etc.). We all know the majority of rural one off dwellers could just as well live in clusters.

    Your definition of "cluster" (houses up to 200 metres apart strung along a road) is actually one off housing and not a sustainable cluster type development at all.

    Here is what rural Ireland looks like and here is what rural Germany looks like (same scale!). Can you not see why provision of utilities including broadband is so much more difficult in rural Ireland because we have chosen this one off development pattern? It is actually an American import. It is not how our forefathers settled rural Ireland.

    I have not said that rural one off's are not a problem just that majority of Irish rural houses are not one off.

    The number of houses that are one off are in the minority but still they are important as a lot of these are farms some of them because issues like communications may become abandoned and this will be lost farm production as well.

    Farms are part of a community and if there is no community these farms will be highly isolated if everybody decides to move to the urban areas.

    Houses that are 200m apart are not isolated houses they more than likely have telephones lines and mains water.

    These are not some one of house in the middle of no where. If telephone cables can be put there so can fiber optics.


    Farming of the no so distant future will rely on genetics and distributed sensor networks and automation and these will require fiber optics communications systems to deal with large bandwidth applications.

    If you look at the bigger picture you will see that Ireland needs every advantage it can get and this will be one of them.

    Disease monitoring, rapid reaction, soil monitoring, livestock monitoring and many more techniques will enable advanced agricultural practices.

    it is projected that over the coming years agriculture will be come more important to Irish GDP.

    Cost is not a real issue when this is being analysed in terms of development and investment on a large scale is required.


  • #203
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    nuxxx wrote: »
    I dont mind if it takes time , eircoms rollout has been a disaster
    Don't think that's fair at all. I was pleasantly surprised at the speed of the rollout.


  • #204
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    murphaph wrote: »
    Don't think that's fair at all. I was pleasantly surprised at the speed of the rollout.

    That was my point. I've seen nothing but complaints from efiber customers about massive contention at peak hours, many of which now experience slower speeds than they had with DSL.


  • #205
    football_lover
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭football_lover


    Davy wrote: »
    Did you even read it?



    We aren't even a month into 2014 yet. If its costing 400million surely it makes sense to get it right if it takes a few months longer.

    Also just because the trials weren't on there website doesn't mean they don't exist.

    To have a widespread rural fiber optics systems will be in billions not hundreds of million and this will not cover everybody.

    But over the long term it could be achieved and the benefits of such systems will be very important to the Irish economy.

    The Irish government actually has a chance to give Irish agriculture a massive advantage on the Global Scale with these fiber optics systems but my gut feeling is that Ireland does not have the vision to build these systems.

    There are even those on these forums that will keeping bring up the cost issue for rural broadband.

    And there solution is for rural communities to move to urban centers. If we want to keep our agriculture alive then this is one of the ways of doing it.


  • #206
    Davy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭Davy


    football_lover wrote: »
    To have a widespread rural fiber optics systems will be in billions not hundreds of million and this will not cover everybody.

    But over the long term it could be achieved and the benefits of such systems will be very important to the Irish economy.

    The Irish government actually has a chance to give Irish agriculture a massive advantage on the Global Scale with these fiber optics systems but my gut feeling is that Ireland does not have the vision to build these systems.

    There are even those on these forums that will keeping bring up the cost issue for rural broadband.

    And there solution is for rural communities to move to urban centers. If we want to keep our agriculture alive then this is one of the ways of doing it.

    I'm not making any point about the cost, just quoting the amount from the article linked, it mentioned the €400m.


  • #207
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    football_lover wrote: »
    I have not said that rural one off's are not a problem just that majority of Irish rural houses are not one off.

    The number of houses that are one off are in the minority but still they are important as a lot of these are farms some of them because issues like communications may become abandoned and this will be lost farm production as well.

    Farms are part of a community and if there is no community these farms will be highly isolated if everybody decides to move to the urban areas.

    Houses that are 200m apart are not isolated houses they more than likely have telephones lines and mains water.

    These are not some one of house in the middle of no where. If telephone cables can be put there so can fiber optics.


    Farming of the no so distant future will rely on genetics and distributed sensor networks and automation and these will require fiber optics communications systems to deal with large bandwidth applications.

    If you look at the bigger picture you will see that Ireland needs every advantage it can get and this will be one of them.

    Disease monitoring, rapid reaction, soil monitoring, livestock monitoring and many more techniques will enable advanced agricultural practices.

    it is projected that over the coming years agriculture will be come more important to Irish GDP.

    Cost is not a real issue when this is being analysed in terms of development and investment on a large scale is required.
    Your definition of a one-off house is at odds with the accepted definition used by everyone else so it's very hard to debate the issue with you to be honest. In any case, the vast vast majority of homes in rural Ireland do not belong to farmers or those in allied sectors, far too many belong to people who work in urban centres but want to live 200m from the next house. That's a lifestyle choice that brings with it poorer availability of utilities.


  • #208
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    successive governments have allowed for congregation of our population into 3-4 urban sprawls.
    Ireland is one of the worst offenders for having its population so concentrated. The only way to combat the constant pressure on our cities is to make living rurally a bit more attractive.
    Towns and villages will grow (and will grow from loosely clustered housing) if the facilities are passable. How could you convince someone to live outside a city, if they can not even connect to the net, never mind the larger logistical issues of school locations/work opportunities/cinema/shops etc.

    We already have too much internal migration to our cities as is and, as Ireland really is reliant on its agri-business, this is not a good thing


  • #209
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Our rural towns and villages have been dying for decades as people have chosen not to build on to the village but to build a couple of kilometres away. People build a house 2km from a historic village core and then they need a car, so then they do their shopping in a shopping centre, rather than in the nearby village and the spiral of decline continues. No governments are to blame for peoples' choices to live apart from the village. That is a 100% lifestyle choice. Only farmers with livestock really need to live in such isolation, any one else is doing so out of a desire to do so. On the continent even most farmers live in the local village and travel to their farms each day, but that's just by the by.

    The facts simply do not agree with your hypothesis that successive governments have "allowed for congregation of our population into 3-4 urban sprawls". Successive governments have failed to get tough on rural one off development as was done over in Britain and elsewhere. In England, which is one of the most densely populated countries in Europe, you still have plenty of areas of true wilderness. In Ireland, both north and south (because NI also failed to reign in rural one off development) you are (almost) never more than a few minutes drive from someone's house. England is a similar size to Ireland yet has a population about 10 times bigger, yet manages to maintain green belts and large and numerous national parks...look at any map of the UK & Ireland and you'll see the handful of national parks we have compared to theirs. We should be ashamed of ourselves really.

    Rural Ireland has been suburbanised at an ultra low density.


  • #210
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    GBCULLEN wrote: »
    this was announced in July last year and it was said a decision would be made in Sept. Its now Feb 2014 ... and nothing.

    I rest my case.

    http://www.uswitch.ie/broadband/news/2013/07/22/esb-pursue-partnerships-for-new-super-fast-fibre-broadband-network/

    Career tip, never become a barrister.

    nuxxx wrote: »
    That was my point. I've seen nothing but complaints from efiber customers about massive contention at peak hours, many of which now experience slower speeds than they had with DSL.

    You've seen some report on an internet message boards. Most people FTTC has been perfectly fine, mine included so far albeit I don't have it long.


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  • #211
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    murphaph wrote: »
    Don't think that's fair at all. I was pleasantly surprised at the speed of the rollout.

    Eircom at least is doing something. Who'd would have thought a few years ago any villages in Ireland would get Fibre, really think about it.

    However Eircom, i doubt myself will expand further beyond the 2016 plan? I only see those villages and towns with local exchanges been upgraded. People who're living in the very remote parts of Ireland may see 4G broadband eventually, but it could be a long wait for them.

    ESB is looking for a partner to sell broadband on a wholesale basis. With that its very unlikely we will ever see 100% per cent fibre connectivity. I think 80% is a more realistic target and that could be reached by 2020.

    My view of what's likely to happen.
    70% of Irish homes and businesses will be able to get FTTC from Eircom by (2016-2018)

    Eircom may upgrade in that period some homes to FTTH

    ESB will likely bring FTTH to semi urban towns first and then villages?

    My view could be entirely wrong and urban areas will see ESB broadband first, but i think that's the wrong decision.

    Does urban Ireland really need another broadband provider? UPC and Eircom and ESB, i have my doubts.


  • #212
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,658 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Indo article today - http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/esb-broadband-wont-improve-rural-experience-much-29983827.html
    Contrary to all the recent coverage indicating such an eventuality, there is a very slim chance of rural businesses receiving ESB-based fibre broadband any time soon.

    Why? Because the ESB and its partner telecoms network (a multi-platform telecoms firm yet to be announced) aren't planning it. In fact, it's highly unlikely that the new network will get anywhere near the countryside: it is being geared up for "selected urban areas" and "will be utilised where it is practical to do so".

    This isn't the whisper of any insider: it's what the ESB has written down in black and white on its tender contract.

    "The core activity will be the deployment of Fibre-To-The-Building to individual homes or premises in Ireland, in selected urban areas, using the ESB electricity overhead and underground infrastructure," says the ESB broadband document.

    "Phase 1 is expected to ... focus on urban and semi-urban conurbations outside of Dublin city. It is anticipated that in the deployment of the network, this electricity infrastructure will be utilised where and to the extent it is practical to do so."

    In other words, any ESB-related fibre broadband will most likely simply be in areas that already have – or are scheduled for – high-speed broadband deployment already.
    According to the ESB itself, the initial network rollout is planned to reach around 450,000 buildings. That's around a quarter of the country's homes and businesses. Why so limited? Partly because the ESB has about 1,300km of fibre-optic cable in Ireland, compared to around 12,000km held by Eircom. In these terms alone, it's easy to see the geographical limits of any ESB-based network.

    To reach into rural networks would require far, far more cable: many rural areas are defined by their spaced-out housing, with no more than a handful of buildings per kilometre. In telecoms circles, this is regarded as simply uneconomic. (Or, in the words of the ESB tender, it is not "practical".)


    This is probably why the ESB has indicated that it will only look at towns of at least 4,000 buildings for new broadband services.



  • #213
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    Well that's not good news :(


  • #214
    hallo dare
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭hallo dare


    Aw man!!!


  • #215
    bealtine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    The Cush wrote: »
    Indo article today - http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/esb-broadband-wont-improve-rural-experience-much-29983827.html

    This has been well flagged up on many occasions now...


  • #216
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,658 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    bealtine wrote: »
    This has been well flagged up on many occasions now...

    but now it comes from the ESB tender documents, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak.


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  • #217
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Not surprising at all unfortunately.


  • #218
    MajesticDonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭MajesticDonkey


    The government needs to get its arse in gear regarding this.

    First we had Fine Gael's "Broadband 21" project in 2009, which was going to invest €2.5bn in developing a 50-100 "megabyte" (apparently, not "megabit") fibre network which would be available to 90% of the population by the end of 2013. Nothing since.

    In 2010, there was Labour's "Plan for a Digital Ireland", which was going to invest €2bn, which would, quote, "connect the vast majority of the population to fibre optic cables which will allow speeds 100 Mpb/s and greater. The vast majority of homes would be directly connected utilising Fibre to the Home - FTTH, with a wireless solution only being offered in remote areas". Nothing since.

    If this €4.5bn, or anything close to it, was invested when it was supposed to be, we would have one of the best fibre internet networks in the world now. It's just sickening.

    Yes, I agree that there must be a trade off between rural, one-off dwellings and urban or semi-urban towns and villages as regards available services, but some people do not have a choice about where they live. I don't accept that it's just too expensive to connect one-off houses. All that's needed is for the state to invest the money in it - a once-off investment - instead of making silly election promises to cover the country with good BB (like Labour in 2010) and then not even mentioning then after being elected. Don't make a promise about it - just go and do it!


  • #219
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    MajesticDonkey wrote: »
    The government needs to get its arse in gear regarding this.

    First we had Fine Gael's "Broadband 21" project in 2009, which was going to invest €2.5bn in developing a 50-100 "megabyte" (apparently, not "megabit") fibre network which would be available to 90% of the population by the end of 2013. Nothing since.

    In 2010, there was Labour's "Plan for a Digital Ireland", which was going to invest €2bn, which would, quote, "connect the vast majority of the population to fibre optic cables which will allow speeds 100 Mpb/s and greater. The vast majority of homes would be directly connected utilising Fibre to the Home - FTTH, with a wireless solution only being offered in remote areas". Nothing since.

    If this €4.5bn, or anything close to it, was invested when it was supposed to be, we would have one of the best fibre internet networks in the world now. It's just sickening.

    Yes, I agree that there must be a trade off between rural, one-off dwellings and urban or semi-urban towns and villages as regards available services, but some people do not have a choice about where they live. I don't accept that it's just too expensive to connect one-off houses. All that's needed is for the state to invest the money in it - a once-off investment - instead of making silly election promises to cover the country with good BB (like Labour in 2010) and then not even mentioning then after being elected. Don't make a promise about it - just go and do it!


    From then on, much like current utilities, when you build your one off house, you pay for the connection and lay down your own fibre optic.

    It can be budgeted into the house construction cost


  • #220
    garroff
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭garroff


    Just rang my local Labour TD. Will let you know what response I get.
    If the Indo is correct....this is awful news.....ok to erect pylons in rural to supply electricity to towns and cities but not ok to hang BB on them.


  • #221
    MajesticDonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭MajesticDonkey


    norrie rugger wrote: »
    From then on, much like current utilities, when you build your one off house, you pay for the connection and lay down your own fibre optic.

    It can be budgeted into the house construction cost
    Exactly. I would have no problem paying to get fibre connected, €1000 or whatever it is.

    Even right now with my existing house, I would have no problem paying €1000 to get fibre connected. All I have at the moment is 2Mb wireless, which costs €35/month. The max I could get is 5Mb which would cost me €55/month. My connection is essentially unusable at night when everyone is on it.

    I live about 7 miles from the nearest fibre-enabled town (Mitchelstown, eFibre) and about 10 miles from another fibre-connected town (Cahir, UPC). The only possible hope I can have at the moment is that this ESB network will provide a good backbone which my wireless ISP (based in Cahir) can use, which will somewhat improve my connection, but my internet will still have to travel wirelessly over the 10 miles to and from Cahir.


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  • #222
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,658 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    From the Indo - http://www.independent.ie/tablet/technology/vodafone-in-talks-with-esb-over-400m-fibre-broadband-network-29996678.html
    VODAFONE has entered into exclusive negotiations with the ESB for the rollout of a new €400m fibre broadband network to 450,000 Irish homes and businesses.

    ...

    "ESB has entered into exclusive negotiations with Vodafone Ireland as the preferred bidder to form a Joint Venture Company, which will roll out fibre to homes and businesses across Ireland," a Vodafone spokesman told the Irish Independent.
    The new network will be based outside Dublin and concentrated in towns of at least 4,000 premises.

    ...

    It is not yet clear whether a new fibre partnership between the ESB and Vodafone will allow other telecoms operators to gain access to ESB's network. However, the ESB has stipulated that it hopes to engage in a phased rollout, with the first section extending to 1,300km of fibre.

    "The core activity will be the deployment of Fibre-To-The-Building to individual homes or premises in Ireland, in selected urban areas, using the ESB electricity overhead and underground infrastructure," said the ESB tender document.

    "Phase 1 is expected to focus on urban and semi-urban conurbations outside of Dublin city. It is anticipated that in the deployment of the network, this electricity infrastructure will be utilised where and to the extent it is practical to do so."


  • #223
    garroff
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭garroff


    Does not look good for majority of rural customers. Still awaiting clarification from local TD.


  • #224
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The Cush wrote: »
    The new network will be based outside Dublin and concentrated in towns of at least 4,000 premises.[/url]

    Seriously though - How many "towns" have 4000 premises??

    List of Towns by Population

    This is a list of towns/cities by population - Not sure of a good rule of thumb for converting population to number of premises , but I'd be fairly comfortable saying that virtually nothing outside of the top dozen or so listed here would have 4k premises..

    So - ESB is just another provider offering the same thing to the same people....

    Extremely disappointing and a huge missed opportunity for them (and the country to be honest)


  • #225
    MajesticDonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭MajesticDonkey


    I emailed Minister Rabbitte last week - got this reply yesterday...
    I refer to your recent email to me concerning the availability of high speed broadband services in your area.

    Since market liberalisation in 1999, broadband services are delivered in the first instance through private sector operators. The provision of telecommunications services, including broadband services, is primarily a matter for the service providers concerned who operate in a fully liberalised market, regulated by the independent regulator, the Commission for Communications Regulation (ComReg). The market has developed into a well-regulated market, supporting a multiplicity of commercial operators, providing services over a diverse range of technology platforms. Details of broadband services available in each County can be found on a number of websites, including ComReg’s website at www.callcosts.ie as well as the websites of individual commercial operators.

    Decisions by private operators, including Eircom, relating to investment in infrastructure to provide broadband services are taken purely on commercial grounds, having regard to the cost of service provision and the anticipated revenue returns from any such investment. You will appreciate therefore, that I do not have a statutory authority to direct commercial companies in this regard.
    The Government’s National Broadband Plan, which I published in August 2012, aims to radically change the broadband landscape in Ireland by ensuring that high speed broadband is available to all citizens and businesses. This will be achieved by providing:
    a policy and regulatory framework that assists in accelerating and incentivising commercial investment, and

    a State-led investment for areas where it is not commercial for the market to invest.

    During the preparation of Ireland’s National Broadband Plan, the commercial market operators indicated that they expect to provide 70Mbps to 100Mbps services to 50% of the population by 2015. Since the publication of the Plan, there is evidence that industry is investing beyond the targets to which they committed in the Plan with
    investment underway in both fixed line and mobile high speed broadband services, particularly in urban and semi-urban areas.
    The ESB Electronic Communications Bill, which I introduced recently, is a further step in promoting investment in competitively priced high speed broadband. The Bill will, when enacted, enable the ESB to utilise its electricity distribution network to provide telecommunications services in the Irish market.
    In tandem with these developments, intensive work is underway in my Department to progress a State-led investment to secure the countrywide introduction of next generation broadband access. In order to progress the State-led investment for areas where it is not commercial for the market to invest, a full procurement process must be designed and EU State Aids approval must be obtained.
    My Department is engaged in a comprehensive mapping exercise of the current and anticipated investment by the commercial sector over the coming years, the results of which will inform the areas that need to be targeted in the State-led investment as envisaged in the National Broadband Plan.
    Intensive technical, financial and legal preparations, including stakeholder engagement, are ongoing. All relevant matters, including issues related to pricing, will be considered as the process of the detailed design of the intervention develops. The procurement process for the approved intervention will be carried out in accordance with EU and Irish procurement rules and it is expected that it will be launched in 2014.
    Through the implementation of the National Broadband Plan, we are committed to increasing the availability of next generation speeds significantly, with a view to ensuring that all citizens and businesses can participate fully in a digitally enabled society.


    Yours sincerely,


    Pat Rabbitte T.D.
    Minister for Communications, Energy & Natural Resources


  • #226
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    garroff wrote: »
    Does not look good for majority of rural customers. Still awaiting clarification from local TD.

    Why do you think you local TD will know anything about this?

    This is a commercial venture and the information they share with the government will be restricted and likely only available to key people in Department of Communication, etc.

    Frankly some of the people posting on this forum, know far more about what is going on then your local TD will ever. I've been saying all along exactly what the above article says. Don't know why people wouldn't believe it.


  • #227
    garroff
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭garroff


    BK....I hate to say it....you were right.....well done.
    Rural BB users.....get lost....that's the message.

    Roll on 23 May....local and European Elections.


  • #228
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    garroff wrote: »
    BK....I hate to say it....you were right.....well done.
    Rural BB users.....get lost....that's the message.

    Roll on 23 May....local and European Elections.

    Like that'll change anything. Even if we had a minister for communications who didnt have his head up his arse Comreg and the ISPs would still be the same. NBS would still be a joke. 4G would still be crippled.

    If you're rural and want decent BB, start a community BB scheme. Thats the only thing that'll happen any time soon.


  • #229
    Chris The Hacker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Chris The Hacker


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Seriously though - How many "towns" have 4000 premises??

    List of Towns by Population

    This is a list of towns/cities by population - Not sure of a good rule of thumb for converting population to number of premises , but I'd be fairly comfortable saying that virtually nothing outside of the top dozen or so listed here would have 4k premises


    For the past few weeks I've been reading the rollout thread and I stumbled upon this last night.

    So, bk reckons there's 2,000,000 premises in Ireland. The population is 4,600,000. That's a ratio of 46:20 or 23:10 or 2.3:1

    Or you can divide 2,000,000 into 4,600,000 = 2.3

    So, for every 1 premise, you have 2.3 people.

    Divide a town's population by 2.3 and you'll get a rough idea of how many premises are there.

    Looking at the list of towns, the first 51 towns have roughly 4,000 premises.


  • #230
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Chris The Hacker, excellent work, however per the 2011 CSO stats, there is an average of 2.7 people per household. So that would get the top 41 towns on the list.

    However I wouldn't take that as gospel, obviously the ESB will take into account where their existing fibre backbone network runs.

    So some smaller towns might end up getting serviced, while some larger towns might not.


  • #231
    MajesticDonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭MajesticDonkey


    ED E wrote: »
    If you're rural and want decent BB, start a community BB scheme. Thats the only thing that'll happen any time soon.
    How would one go about this?


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  • #232
    Chris The Hacker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Chris The Hacker


    bk wrote: »
    Chris The Hacker, excellent work, however per the 2011 CSO stats, there is an average of 2.7 people per household. So that would get the top 41 towns on the list.

    However I wouldn't take that as gospel, obviously the ESB will take into account where their existing fibre backbone network runs.

    So some smaller towns might end up getting serviced, while some larger towns might not.

    Yeah, but we're not talking about households, we're talking about premises. When we're not at home, we're in work, which distributes the population from 2.7 to 2.3.


  • #233
    Gonzo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    they are only supplying broadband to areas with 4,000 premises and upwards, are they having a laugh? There's barely 2 towns per county with that amount of premises. So much for finally supplying broadband where it is really needed. The same people get even more choice and the rest of us are left out yet again...


  • #234
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    MajesticDonkey wrote: »
    I emailed Minister Rabbitte last week - got this reply yesterday...

    He's obviously referring to Eircom here.

    During the preparation of Ireland’s National Broadband Plan, the commercial market operators indicated that they expect to provide 70Mbps to 100Mbps services to 50% of the population by 2015.

    Eircom if they're telling the truth are ahead of schedule and could achieve 50% by the summer of 2014 (1 million homes and businesses approximately)

    That's leaves just 20% to make 70% which is 1.4 million

    400,000 so to get done from the summer of 2014 to July 2016. And i see no reason to why the rollout would slowdown and be ahead of schedule also?


  • #235
    MajesticDonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭MajesticDonkey


    Yes, I agree, and it's good to see Eircom being reasonably pro-active with all this. I just wish the government would pump money into rolling out a fibre infrastructure to EVERY home, and then leasing that infrastructure to all the national ISPs, thus keeping the "liberal market".

    I fear it'll be at least 10 years before I even get a reliable DSL connection, let alone fibre. I am seriously considering getting a community BB scheme going, or at least looking into it for the moment. This is a rather fascinating story: http://www.forbes.com/sites/alisoncoleman/2014/02/06/europes-fastest-rural-broadband-network-british-farmers-are-digging-it/


  • #236
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    VDSL rollout has actually gone really well. It took off more than expected and KNN are having a hard time keeping up with orders.

    It will naturally slow down a bit soon enough as the "easy" to do cabs are all done. That leaves the more dispersed cabs and underground cabs which are slower or provide less fibre enabled premises per cab done.

    All around its very positive though. Nothing at all to do with Rabbite.


  • #237
    Chris The Hacker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Chris The Hacker


    ESB in talks with Vodafone regarding €400m broadband deal

    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/35762-esb-in-talks-with-vodafone/
    The ESB looks close to partnering with telecoms company Vodafone Ireland to roll out a fibre broadband service across Ireland to the tune of €400m, as part of the Irish Government’s National Broadband Plan.

    The ESB had recently been in discussions with a number of broadband providers and will provide its broadband service through the electricity poles that crisscross the country.

    It was believed that fellow telecoms company BT had been Vodafone’s biggest competitor in the competition but for unknown reasons the company decided to pull itself out of the running.

    Vodafone confirmed negotiations are at an advanced stage.

    “ESB has entered into exclusive negotiations with Vodafone Ireland as the preferred bidder to form a joint venture company which will roll out fibre to homes and businesses across Ireland.”

    As part of the National Broadband Plan, the ESB has ambitions to bring broadband to more than 500,000 homes and has set itself a target to have a national minimum broadband speed of 30Mbps for every home by 2015.

    It is understood any plans for ESB to enter the broadband market will need to be looked over by the Competition Authority and will no doubt be a major challenge to Eircom and UPC’s more established networks.


  • #238
    garroff
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭garroff


    interesting..................


  • #239
    hallo dare
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭hallo dare


    Chris The Hacker wrote: »
    ESB in talks with Vodafone regarding €400m broadband deal

    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/35762-esb-in-talks-with-vodafone/

    30mb for "every" home, or just the 500,000 it talks about?


  • #240
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    Well that's the question isn't it?

    or is it every home (every = 80-85% coverage)


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  • #241
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    hallo dare wrote: »
    30mb for "every" home, or just the 500,000 it talks about?

    I believe they are conflating two different things.

    The 500,000 homes that get ESB FTTH should be easily capable of 150mb/s

    The National Broadband Plan is a government plan to have every home in Ireland having at least 30mb/s by 2015:

    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communications/Communications+Development/Next+Generation+Broadband/

    It is a good idea, but there is little reality or money behind the government NBP.

    What this article is saying is that the ESB FTTH rollout will help towards achieving the NBP. Don't read anything more into this.


  • #242
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    MOD: There is a lot of off topic talk about rural broadband on this thread, so I've split off some of the posts so it can continue to be talked about here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057153058, please keep this thread for discussion specific to the ESB rollout only please. Thanks


  • #243
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Haven't read all the recent posts, but I had a very interesting call yesterday.

    Eircom are DESPERATE to get people back to their services, and I had yet another long call from one of their sales reps, trying to persuade me to move back to them from my present provider and Sky.

    During an interesting conversation, it was mentioned that "Eircom are negotiating with ESB to be able to use their fibre service". I'm not convinced that wasn't just sales B$, he was desperate to try and get me to go with them, and I think they would have promised almost anything to get me to move over.

    I didn't go into that in much depth, because I'm not sure that it would be relevant here, we're already able to get Efibre locally, my reservation is that we are going to be at the end of the line range wise, so the speeds may not be that good, and if Evision is added to the package, with multiroom, that's going to take a big bite out of the overall speed available, and the other deal breaker is that we get up to 1 hour per call free to the UK with our present provider, and as we have family in the UK, that's a significant saving, being that Eircom would be nearly €5 per hour for a UK call, so a real deal breaker for me.

    It's still all a joke, when are our politicians going to get wise to the requirement to have a decent broadband package that has good upload speeds as well as good download speeds. The whole focus of broadband at the moment is on being able to provide "entertainment" level services, and anything that might actually allow people to work sensibly from home, or provide a web presence or acceptable level of support from their business premises, is only a wet dream, due to the appallingly bad upload speeds that are on offer! "the Cloud" is exactly what that implies, vapourware, long on promises and very short on real reliability and security, which leaves many companies with very few options other than to find some way to outsource much of their service provision, and that can be a very fraught situation, and moving provider is not the simple and easy task that some would say it is.

    Then again, most of the state services expect us to have all our interactions with them through info@whoever.ie, so what does that tell us about the degree to which real computing has penetrated the government services!

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #244
    football_lover
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭football_lover


    murphaph wrote: »
    Your definition of a one-off house is at odds with the accepted definition used by everyone else so it's very hard to debate the issue with you to be honest. In any case, the vast vast majority of homes in rural Ireland do not belong to farmers or those in allied sectors, far too many belong to people who work in urban centres but want to live 200m from the next house. That's a lifestyle choice that brings with it poorer availability of utilities.

    People have lived in rural Ireland for many generations and did not just move out of the cities to there.

    Yes there are people who have moved out there but that does not change the fact there are communities that have been there for centuries.

    I am sorry to shock you but farms and the people who run them are based in the countryside not Dublin 4/6.

    And the supporting structure around them are in some cases rural or small towns based.

    The few billion that would be spent developing a rural fiber optics system not a national system would be monies well invested.

    We either stick our heads in the sand and watch Ireland argi-sector disappear to other nations or we literally grab the bull by the horns.

    We either sit and do nothing or we do something. I find it funny that motorways which where built in this country costing billions but a fiber optics system that would cost the same is considered too expensive.

    We should be building small manufacturing industries around our agriculture instead of people worrying about one of builds we are what we are.

    Germany's Mittelstand is what we in Ireland should be aspiring to only it could be food based.


  • #245
    sparky63
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭sparky63


    Another network from another provider:mad:. What this country needs is some sort of joint venture between the three network operators, Eircom, UPC and ESB to give every household, high speed broadband. Not another provider like UPC which will compete in towns and cities. Interesting to note Eircom extended invitations to all the providers to come together for talks to try and achieve this. Not one provider responded:(


  • #246
    Mr. G
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 4,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr. G


    Sounds awful but I'm not surprised.


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  • #247
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    sparky63 wrote: »
    Another network from another provider:mad:. What this country needs is some sort of joint venture between the three network operators, Eircom, UPC and ESB to give every household, high speed broadband. Not another provider like UPC which will compete in towns and cities. Interesting to note Eircom extended invitations to all the providers to come together for talks to try and achieve this. Not one provider responded:(

    I'm sorry, but this is absolute rubbish. The ESB and UPC were absolutely right not to respond.

    Eircom would love to get together with the ESB and UPC to create a Oligarchy where they all agree to divide up the market and not to compete directly and keep prices high!

    Remember this is Eircom who just a year ago made proposals to Comreg that they should be allowed to charge cheaper prices in areas served by UPC and more expensive prices where they faced no competition. In other words charging more expensive prices to rural Ireland!

    Eircom increasing the number of homes they are rolling out VDSL to from 1 million to 1.4 million (in particular in rural areas) is a direct response to the ESB FTTH network.

    From what I've been told it is a "cut them off at the pass" manoeuvre before the ESB even arrives. So even the possibility of increased competition from the ESB has already forced Eircom to be more competitive.

    Don't kid yourself, the only reason Eircom is doing 70mb/s VDSL and soon vectoring is because of intense competition from UPC and soon from the ESB.

    The ESB FTTH network bringing extra competition to the Irish market is the best thing that has happened since UPC arrived on the market. It will ensure we have a high quality network and real competition that will keep Eircom on their feet and competitive.


  • #248
    sparky63
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭sparky63


    The ESB was not a provider at the time, and i doubt it extended to UPC. The offer was to the telecoms providers, should have stated that. The idea was in response to the NBP. As from the lack of participants, Eircom went alone with the fibre project. In relation to increased competition, yes why wouldn't any company up the stakes and become more competitive. As for vectoring and kidding myself, they moved from 56k to ISDN and DSL with no competition from UPC or the ESB, its the next step in being able to provide higher speeds and used widely by similar providers in Europe. The higher the speed, the more products can be offered. My argument is that the introduction of the ESB into the broadband market while it will increase competition and the prospect of lower prices to the consumer, its looking like only benefiting areas that will be served by fibre already. My comment as to the joint venture of the three providers was in the hope that the expectation of providing areas that are cost prohibitive with providing fibre can be overcome.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/esb-broadband-wont-improve-rural-experience-much-29983827.html


  • #249
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    sparky63 wrote: »
    As for vectoring and kidding myself, they moved from 56k to ISDN and DSL with no competition from UPC or the ESB, its the next step in being able to provide higher speeds and used widely by similar providers in Europe.

    Again, what more revisionist nonsense.

    I was there for all of these as part of Ireland Off Line, I sat in front of the CEO of Eircom and The Minister of Communications at the time. Eircom had to be dragged kicking and screaming to rollout broadband.

    Eircom had no interest at all in rolling out affordable consumer broadband, they were far happier making a fortune on crappy per minute dial up costs.

    It was the members of Ireland Off Line who convinced the Minister of Communications that he did have the legal power to require Eircom introduce a FRIACO (Flat rate dial-up product) product, which he did. Within one month of Eircom (and Esat/BT) introducing FRIACO, Eircom then responded by cutting the price of Broadband in half and announcing the big rollout of Broadband.

    I can assure you that before this, Eircom had no plans on doing extensive consumer broadband. It was being forced to do FRIACO that convinced them it would be preferable to do Broadband then FRIACO as FRIACO removed the massive per minute dial up bills.

    Also you are also wrong about cable broadband, it was available from NTL Ireland even back then.
    sparky63 wrote: »
    My comment as to the joint venture of the three providers was in the hope that the expectation of providing areas that are cost prohibitive with providing fibre can be overcome.

    And again I'm saying any joint venture was pure nonsense on Eircom's part.

    How exactly would a joint venture make any difference to rolling out broadband to rural Ireland?

    Eircom has a larger fibre network then any company in Ireland. UPC would be no help as they are only in urban areas. And what Eircom expected the ESB to let Eircom use their electricity poles for free!

    All pure nonsense, everyone knew that at best, this was just another stalling tactic by Eircom and at worst an attempt to divide up the market and reduce competition.

    Honestly it would be very naive to think anything else, this is Eircom we are talking about here.


  • #250
    Azhrei
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 308 ✭✭Azhrei


    Do we have any more news on this? Any idea when they will start offering their services?


  • #251
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    I'd venture that it will be years before we get anything other than a pilot.


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