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Manager correcting me on personal issues

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  • 27-03-2014 12:19am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi guys,

    I'm an Intern working for a 6 month period for a certain company. Today we had a social to celebrate some company achievements.

    I was in the bar and I got talking to my manager (head of my department) and an other work colleague. The manager was the guy that interviewed me and gave me the position. Anyhow, during the course of the conversion my manager mentioned that I need to improve upon my speech. He said that I don't speak clearly nor do I pronounce my words very well. I was a little taken back and as I'm quite new (only an intern) and I little on the shy side I tried to play it as cool as possible, I don't like conflicts. So at first I agreed to a degree, I said I am probably guilty of mumbling at times. I then said I was never picked up on it before. He went on and on, he even did a slight impression on how I speak. At some point I said am I really that bad? His answer was "I could bull**** you but to be honest it's crap. I kinda didn't answer, but didn't disagree. Shortly after I said I have to go and left. He had a fair few drinks on him and all this was said in front of another colleague.

    I'm a slightly annoyed with myself for not defending myself more. Up to this point the manager was relatively nice and I've had no problems with him, after all he gave me the job. So, my question is what your thoughts on what happened? What would you do if you were me? Was he completely out of order? I know I should have been more defensive, but am I too late to say it to him tomorrow? What should I say? Any help on the matter greatly appreciated, preferably before tomorrow morning. Thanks


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,717 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    If it was performance advice about your job, then it shouldn't have happened in front of a colleague.

    But it if was just general personal discussion as opposed to specific work performance, then it was probably a bit insensitive, but IMHO not offensive. Others will disagree, because as a manager he's in a position of power.

    TBH, this sort of feedback is actually valuable. You might not like it, but at this stage of your career, lap it up and be grateful. It's far better than they tell you, rather than not tell you and let you go because of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,947 ✭✭✭dixiefly


    Hi,
    I had to answer this even though it is quite late.

    In my opinion he is out of line and shouldn't have spoken about a negative work issue on that occasion. I think that it says more about him than you and he may have a problem communicating generally and can only do it with drink taken- totally inappropriate.

    I was the 3rd person in a conversation like that on one occasion not having being long with the company and my boss was criticising someone who was not even reporting to him. I stayed out of it and the other person mentioned it to me the next day and I said that I didn't listen to any of it. The same boss tried to discuss work issues with me a few years later after drink taken when we were away on business and I completely stopped him and said we could talk the next day.

    I have worked closely with some interns and realise how much they want the experience to work out so I appreciate your upset at this. Is your supervisor in the company a different person? If so and you feel that you get on with him or her then try and broach the issue with them and try and tease out whether they feel the same about you. If this manager is your main supervisor I think you should try and speak to him on a more formal basis.

    If you are speaking to any of them you should decide what to say and write down points and try and memorise your points as best as possible. Look at it this way, the company use you for work and you are using them to fine tune your work skills.

    Don't let it upset you. Get an idea of how much this could be an issue for you and, if it is, practice and work on making it better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Hennesm


    Sorry I felt I had to answer. There is constructive criticism and then there is bullying. This is bullying. This social event was not a forum for feedback and in any case it should not be given in front of an audience. Doing an impression is completely out of order.
    I would definitely mention it to my supervisor if possible , plus would not let it effect me.you were obviously the easy target for him and no doubt he has a history of this sort of behaviour and I would not put any stock in his drunken 'feedback'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,112 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Are you upset because he offered this criticism, or because he offered it in the place, and on the occasion that he did?

    The criticism itself is fine. I don't know, of course, how justified it was, but even if it was not substantially justified the fact that people - people senior to you, people with management responsibility over you - perceive you as someone who speaks indistinctly or who mumbles is information that it is useful to you to have. If nobody else ever says anything of the kind to you, then possibly this is your manager's problem, not yours. But now you'll be alert to the fact that there may be an issue here, or at least the perception of an issue.

    As regards the place and time where he delivered this criticism, as others have said he was obviously out of line. Likewise the manner in which he delivered it, including doing his impression of you. But I'd let it go. You're an intern; this is a temporary position; he is not going to be your manager long-term. His shortcomings as a manager, though serious, are not a long-term problem for you, whereas if you really do speak indistinctly, that could be a long-term problem. So the think you should take away from this is attentiveness to your own communication skills, not a gripe about his management skills. The first matters to you, and you can do something about it. The second, not so much.

    It's an internship. You're in it for what you can get out of it towards your longer-term career. Pursuing a complaint against your manager, though it might be justified, is a distraction.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    The forum was absolutely wrong but OP you are an intern there to learn. If your job involves dealing with the public or your colleagues struggle to understand what you are saying, it us better you know this before you interview for a permanent position. You have a chance to improve this now and get a good reference. If you don't improve, this guy may be in a position to dictate whether or not you get offered a full time job. He was wrong to do it in public but your colleagues must have mentioned the issue with your speech to him or he noted it when observing you dealing with customers. Take it on board and move on.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    Plain and simple your manager is a bully who can not hold his alcohol. OP report him and the incident.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Plain and simple your manager is a bully who can not hold his alcohol. OP report him and the incident.

    And prepare to leave immediately after. The criticism may be justified but the forum was wrong. OP is not a full time employee, if she was on probation and her manager wasn't happy with her she would be out the door. This may be constructive criticism given in the wrong place and time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    davo10 wrote: »
    And prepare to leave immediately after. The criticism may be justified but the forum was wrong. OP is not a full time employee, if she was on probation and her manager wasn't happy with her she would be out the door. This may be constructive criticism given in the wrong place and time.

    +Don't drink with the boss it never works!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭Red Crow


    It might have taken you back but at least you know that they're not happy with the clarity of the way you speak. As an intern you should be looking to impress and improve yourself. Just because nobody mentioned it to you before doesn't mean there is nothing wrong. IMO I would say something like this to friends and close family members and see what they say to you. You'll be surprised how honest some people can be when they know somebody has already broken the ice on a subject.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Gokei


    Ah op, it wasn't that bad. You don't have to feel defensive if you don't want to. Just put it down to him annoying you and move on.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Red Crow wrote: »
    It might have taken you back but at least you know that they're not happy with the clarity of the way you speak. As an intern you should be looking to impress and improve yourself. Just because nobody mentioned it to you before doesn't mean there is nothing wrong. IMO I would say something like this to friends and close family members and see what they say to you. You'll be surprised how honest some people can be when they know somebody has already broken the ice on a subject.

    Well put, when I started working in the UK 20 years ago I was shy and not especially confident in what I was saying. My boss took me aside after a couple if weeks and told me I was "too softly spoken and people couldn't understand what I was saying", he followed that up by saying " now either talk louder and clearer or you are f**k all use to me". I didn't need to be told twice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    OP

    Unfortunately this individual is fairly typical of the poor standards of management aka those ' in a position of power' employed as managers. Managers please note.

    The situation ie his consumption of alcohol and his behaviour towards you were totally out of context and improper.

    For anyone who would excuse this type of behaviour - there is a proper place for feedback. >An individual under the influence of alcohol in a bar is not<

    It is unfortunate that this type of behaviour is nearly never dealt with adequately. I would suggest you avoid as much contact with this individual in the future, they sound like an office bully. And neither should you be eternally grateful to them as having given you the intern position as I doubt from what you said it is his company. It is likley it was more than one person making this decision. If you had been that poor at interview - do you think the company would have taken you on as an intern?

    From what you have said you disagree with the statement that you do not speak clearly. Just remember that because he is a manager neither makes him right or infallible. You come across as very clear in your writing.

    So practical advice:
    Avoid this person as much as possible, especially in any social setting.
    Keep a diary of any future incidences or negative behavior towards you.
    Ask for a one to one with your direct supervisor (presuming it's not the same individual) and ask for feedback on your performance to date. No need to mention anything particular but you could ask if there are areas that you can improve on.
    Work on these areas to improve.
    As you can see from here - never give anyone ammunition to use against you. You will notice that others will take the criticism voiced against you and throw it at you as if by the fact what was said is definitely true, ignore this bias.
    Chin up - the manager sounds like a complete plonker.


  • Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Quatre Mains


    Hi OP

    That guy was totally in the wrong. That wasn't advice or guidance, as other posters have already said, it was mean-spirited bullying. Being an intern is tough enough on the soul and self-esteem as it is without crap like that. If he has any respect for you he'll apologise unprompted, but I doubt that will happen. None of this is your fault. Your voice was clear enough for him to understand you when you interviewed for the position.
    I can tell from your mail that you don't want to just let the matter slip away, and you are right - it will only eat away at you and annoy you for ages if you do that. the tough part is deciding what to do haha. You could make a complaint, but if there's a prospect of a full-time job in the future, you might be thinking to yourself it's best not to rock the boat. Only you can decide that. If you don't go down that route, you could confront the manager directly and let them know they were totally out of order last night. One of those two would be best. But if you want public humilation (I dont advise this option lol), next time your manager says something to you, thank him for his personal advice about your speech, especially the impression part in front of others. Tell him you aspire to be a mentor like him someday, pointing out people's weaknesses... telling people they're too fat or they walk funny, and doing impersonations of the people working for you. No wonder everyone really respects you in here. BOOM. :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    I think you're blowing this out of proportion.

    Just speak louder / clearer / more confidentially.

    He was not slagging you, it sounds like he was trying to give you an example.

    Don't always look to stand up for yourself - this occasion did not warrant it.

    You're an intern, you're there to learn.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Maybe the manager did you a favour. You might otherwise go for hundreds of interviews for jobs or promotions, not understanding why you don't get the gig; he's told you that you need to learn to speak clearly.

    Have you thought of taking elocution classes?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Bullying: Bullying is repeated inappropriate behaviour that undermines your right to dignity at work. A one off event is not bullying.

    The guy told her she mumbles her words and demonstrated this to her as she wasn't aware of it. OP is an intern, the manager gave her some informal advice at a social event rather than allowing her to go to the end of her internship thinking she was doing great when all the time her colleagues and management might have thought otherwise.

    OP might react to this by thinking, well I'm glad it was done on the QT, now I have a chance to impress them for the rest of the internship or she can take the moral high ground, continue to mumble and bomb.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,959 ✭✭✭gugleguy


    OP, from now on ARTICULATE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,712 ✭✭✭BabysCoffee


    It doesn't sound like the most appropriate setting to be given constructive criticism. However, use this advice positively and look at how I can improve my public speaking, etc.

    Don't let this incident knock your confidence use it as a learning experience to build yourself up and better yourself.

    You may not have been aware how you sound to others - you do now!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭Popescu


    Pay no attention to a drunk in a bar.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Only thing is… looking at it from the manager's point of view, I can see a scenario where it would be a good way to say it. He might be thinking "I really should tell the kid - she's going to mess up her career if she doesn't get help with her diction… but it's not something I could bring up in a formal setting - maybe a gentle word in her ear…"

    Reason I say this is that I used to know a kid - *very, very* bright - who suffered endless prejudice, which I think was mainly because he had a very strong Dublin accent complicated by a heavy 'R' lisp. He sounded as if he was talking regional French, and people just couldn't understand him. So they thought he was stupid. He was put into the remedial class in school - this is a kid who could beat any local child or adult in chess - and when he went for interviews for further education he was told he wasn't suitable. He got a perfectly good semi-skilled job, but this was someone who should have been doing a degree in computing.

    OP, your manager may have been tactless, but I'd listen to his advice. Take elocution lessens, and a course in public speaking. Don't lose your accent, if you have one, but gain clarity.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Popescu wrote: »
    Pay no attention to a drunk in a bar.

    Yip, carry on mumbling, great for the career.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Why is everybody convinced this chap is a drunk who can't hold his drink ,
    It seems he offered advice in a informal way and pointed something out to the op which the op may actually find was useful in his current position as an intern ,
    If it was me I'd gladly take any advice that might help improve my chances of a job now or in the future


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    I don't know it seems people just can't respond to criticism any more. That's not just you OP I'm referring to but more so a lot of the replies.
    This is an issue that will hold you back in your career and you might not even be aware of it yourself. At the same time it is a bit personal rather than actual work performance.
    Would you have preferred if it was brought up in a formal performance talk?

    People tend to get all high and mighty over everything these days, inappropriate this bullying that. But it is still human beings interacting and not everything should be all formal and super professional and nothing but rules. Do you really want to live in a world where everything is by the book at all times? If at this stage of the career a senior gives you a bit of personal advice in a not so serious manner you should be thanking them not finding an issue at all cost.
    Would your reaction be the same if he had commended you over something in a slightly pisstake manner? I dare say not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭Popescu


    davo10 wrote: »
    Yip, carry on mumbling, great for the career.
    Or mimic the sloshed slob to stay in his good book before you are let go at the end of a cheap internship for the company.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭geeky


    My tuppence worth: the guy may well have been trying to give constructive advice to articulate better.

    He picked a bad time and setting to do it (on a social occasion, with drink taken) which probably made his choice of words rather poor and made the experience pretty upsetting. There are two things you can address: the criticism and the manager's approach.

    The criticism:
    I think it's worth trying to make an extra effort to speak clearly and have confidence in what you're saying. Easier said than done, I know.

    The approach:
    I'd be inclined to let it slide for now, but make a note of it. This was a one-off incident but, if it becomes a bullying pattern that merits a complaint, you should be able to name specific days and times.

    Maybe you could follow up with the manager in a friendly but professional way at work - just ask for a quick five minute chat about what you can do to address the issue. I would hope that, if he genuinely feels the point is valid, he'd express it in a more professional way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Gatling wrote: »
    Why is everybody convinced this chap is a drunk who can't hold his drink ,
    It seems he offered advice in a informal way and pointed something out to the op which the op may actually find was useful in his current position as an intern ,
    If it was me I'd gladly take any advice that might help improve my chances of a job now or in the future

    The 'advice' is made irrelevant by the way and how it was delivered...
    Today we had a social to celebrate some company achievements.

    I was in the bar and I got talking to my manager (head of my department) and an other work colleague. ...He said that I don't speak clearly nor do I pronounce my words very well. ...He went on and on, he even did a slight impression... At some point I said am I really that bad? His answer was "I could bull**** you but to be honest it's crap...He had a fair few drinks on him and all this was said in front of another colleague.

    IF the OP lacks confidence in speaking taking the P/ss in such a venue in front of others is neither proper nor acceptable as a manager.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭kitchenkid


    The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to take one session with an elocution/public speaking/speech expert - ask them for utterly honest feedback and a plan for improvement - in the long term this will be well worthwhile, and even if your manager is completely incorrect, you can only benefit from a session, since everybody can brush up on this aspect of their image, even if they are pretty good already.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭superfurry1


    This has cheered me up immensely, Now i remember why i dont work in an office anymore with stuck up pricks and greasy ladder climbing prepster's.:P


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,608 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Pros - you found out something you need to work on

    Cons - He/she was drinking, it was at a social occasion, it was done in front of someone else

    Solution: Go into his/her office and using your outside voice say, "thanks for the constructive criticism but I'd appreciate it if in future you spoke to me privately"

    First they came for the socialists...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭Rose35


    Not the correct setting to be giving constructive feedback to an intern, he needs to brush up on his managerial skills.


This discussion has been closed.
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