Ballyhoura trails?

Oryx · 27-05-2015 12:53pm #1

I just read on Facebook that the enduro trails have been demolished? Is Ballyhoura no more for mtb?

Tenzor07 · 27-05-2015 12:57pm

Only the "unofficial" trails are closed up, all the Coillte stuff is still open as usual....

Still a great place for people living in the Munster area of course. Just nothing really that good to make people drive down from Dublin... or even come down from the North/UK etc...

JBokeh · 27-05-2015 2:22pm

^^ as said above, some lads had carved their own lines on the steeper parts of the forest, that were a bit more hardcore than the smooth gravel on the official tracks, this is frowned upon, probably due to how fast the lines would wear down to the roots of trees from not being a hard wearing surface. Tried them and it was mighty craic, but they were pretty unsustainable

FirstinLastout · 27-05-2015 2:45pm

So MTB equals Enduro??? That's funny.

Oryx · 27-05-2015 2:51pm

FirstinLastout wrote: »

So MTB equals Enduro??? That's funny.

It wasnt clear in the report I read whether just enduro or all trails were closed.

Tenzor07 · 27-05-2015 2:53pm

No, just the good ones! :pac:

Biopace · 27-05-2015 2:57pm

The new 'tech' trails have also been nannified.

mossym · 27-05-2015 2:58pm

Biopace wrote: »

The new 'tech' trails have also been nannified.

the official ones coillte put in? that sucks, they were good crack

Biopace · 27-05-2015 3:06pm

mossym wrote: »

the official ones coillte put in? that sucks, they were good crack

Yep, all steps/jumps have been made rollable, by doing this they have made them much faster, which means some of the berms and rock gardens - which they didn't 'fix' - are now hit faster and are not up to the job. An accident waiting to happen for inexperienced riders on those trails.

Tenzor07 · 27-05-2015 3:11pm

Apparently the rock gardens are now puncture pits, and they have rocks at pedal height, so possibility of catching your pedal and falling off..

Better off to head up to Norn Iron, or over to Wales or Scotland if you're looking for a decent MTB experience and holiday...

nak · 27-05-2015 3:12pm

Biopace wrote: »

Yep, all steps/jumps have been made rollable, by doing this they have made them much faster, which means some of the berms and rock gardens - which they didn't 'fix' - are now hit faster and are not up to the job. An accident waiting to happen for inexperienced riders on those trails.

Genius. Sometimes Coillte's plans make no sense. They could learn a lot from the trail centres in NI etc.

JBokeh · 27-05-2015 3:27pm

Biopace wrote: »

Yep, all steps/jumps have been made rollable, by doing this they have made them much faster, which means some of the berms and rock gardens - which they didn't 'fix' - are now hit faster and are not up to the job. An accident waiting to happen for inexperienced riders on those trails.

Did they put chicken runs around them or did they just get wiped out completely?I once mullered a chainring on the set of 4 drop offs, by jumping off the first, clearing the second, and landing straddling the 3rd, straightened the thing with a rock and carried on down it.

The berms on it aren't great,one of them in particular if you hit at a bit of speed will try eject you over the outside as you exit the corner, there is also a tree with a bit of white paint in the enclosed section, that nails nearly everyone too :pac:

I like that once you're off the green and brown trails the large boulders at the edge of the trails go away, those do more harm than good,over the years i've seen a few people on rental bikes that have clipped a front wheel on them and got fired over the bars, which in my view has much more potential for injury than the drop offs, especially when you consider that most families or tourists might not go down the tech loops, but will be doing the trails

muckwarrior · 27-05-2015 6:08pm

Wow. This is such a load of bollox.

Not only was Ireland moving at a snail's pace compared to the UK with regard to harnessing our natural resources for sport & tourism, but they're now moving backwards! Why not just build massive fences around all forests and mountains in case someone trips and bangs their knee :rolleyes:

rizzodun · 27-05-2015 9:43pm

muckwarrior wrote: »

Wow. This is such a load of bollox.

Not only was Ireland moving at a snail's pace compared to the UK with regard to harnessing our natural resources for sport & tourism, but they're now moving backwards! Why not just build massive fences around all forests and mountains in case someone trips and bangs their knee :rolleyes:

I don't think this matches with the rest of the above posts but thought I'd address it anyways. I think you're wrong to say Coillte are doing this because they are worried about people hurting themselves (which is the impression I get from your post). Trouble is that in Ireland you have to be careful you can't be held accountable for people's misfortunes, knowing the risks in advance doesn't stop people from taking people/organisations to court and saying 'you should have made it so I couldn't hurt myself'

Also, if this (http://www.facebook.com/1541297972788179/photos/a.1559540510963925.1073741829.1541297972788179/1563541817230461/?type=1&theater) is anything to go by, I would say Coillte are looking to expand like NI and the UK, but at the same time, they have to make sure the land is not adversely affected by the trails being built, people building and using the trails have to work with Coillte to make sure they are both safe (to a point, remember, they are open to everyone) and don't affect the forest, first and foremost, they are there to manage the forests.

Ireland as a whole needs to band together and make centres/areas to ride, once complete then the steps can be taken to make areas for the more extreme side of the sport.

Tenzor07 · 28-05-2015 8:54am

Coillte are a timber products company who also happen to be mandated to look after recreation on the lands they manage, so they will block up anything which could cross a fireroad where there machinery will operate on. Essentially the forests are factory sites, and they don't want any unofficial MTB trails interfering in that... In terms of trail centres and quality of, southern Ireland is up to 20 years behind the U.K.

As for putting a national mountainbike centre in Sligo, 2.5+ hours from Dublin, in a county with the population of Blanchardstown, doesn't make sense. Why not build it in Carrick where the EWS was, and close to 70% of the mountain bikers in Southern Ireland?

muckwarrior · 28-05-2015 10:13am

rizzodun wrote: »

I think you're wrong to say Coillte are doing this because they are worried about people hurting themselves (which is the impression I get from your post). Trouble is that in Ireland you have to be careful you can't be held accountable for people's misfortunes, knowing the risks in advance doesn't stop people from taking people/organisations to court and saying 'you should have made it so I couldn't hurt myself'

I didn't mean to imply that coilte would actually be concerned for someone's wellbeing, I meant they would be worried about being blamed for someone hurting themselves. Although, to me it makes less sense to bulldoze the unofficial trails on safety grounds as they would have a lesser degree of accountability if someone hurt themselves on those as opposed to the trails built by coilte (which are higher speed and lined with massive rocks to smash your face on :rolleyes:).

rizzodun wrote: »

Also, if this (http://www.facebook.com/1541297972788179/photos/a.1559540510963925.1073741829.1541297972788179/1563541817230461/?type=1&theater) is anything to go by, I would say Coillte are looking to expand like NI and the UK,

Yes, there are plans for more trails, but compare what's been built in Ireland over the past 5 years to NI and you'll see there's huge difference in the rate of progress.

As for putting a national mountainbike centre in Sligo, 2.5+ hours from Dublin, in a county with the population of Blanchardstown, doesn't make sense. Why not build it in Carrick where the EWS was, and close to 70% of the mountain bikers in Southern Ireland?

That's not really an argument not to build it, but yes it would make sense to have something close to Dublin as well. We're already lucky in that we have lots of great trails nearby, but some facilities would be nice!

Tenzor07 · 28-05-2015 10:54am

muckwarrior wrote: »

That's not really an argument not to build it, but yes it would make sense to have something close to Dublin as well. We're already lucky in that we have lots of great trails nearby, but some facilities would be nice!

Sure yes, build it, as a regional trail centre, but don't create it as "the National" trail centre, so it can be checked off Coillte's list, leaving Dublin with only Ticknock.
Not to mention Ballinastoe, which was built in 2008 and is very poorly maintained, if at all. And is quite dangerous in places. And no facilities in B'Stoe/Ticknock either.

rizzodun · 28-05-2015 1:55pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Sure yes, build it, as a regional trail centre, but don't create it as "the National" trail centre, so it can be checked off Coillte's list, leaving Dublin with only Ticknock.
Not to mention Ballinastoe, which was built in 2008 and is very poorly maintained, if at all. And is quite dangerous in places. And no facilities in B'Stoe/Ticknock either.

It's proposed as one of four or five national centres I believe. The big cycle centres in Wales tend to be hours from big towns, hasn't stopped them being popular.

It's also on the route of the Wild Atlantic Way, that's hours from Dublin, and will tie in to other activities on the west coast.

Anyways, just pointing out that while the progress is slow, there is progress.

xxyyzz · 28-05-2015 2:57pm

Killarney would be ideal. Big mountains, Ireland's main tourist town nearby and a small airport nearby.

MugMugs · 28-05-2015 3:40pm

JUst out of interest, why don't other Coilte lands get this kind of hassle ?

It's rare that The Cooleys every come up in topic like this.

Eamonnator · 28-05-2015 4:21pm

MugMugs wrote: »

JUst out of interest, why don't other Coilte lands get this kind of hassle ?

It's rare that The Cooleys every come up in topic like this.

Quite a lot of the trails in The Cooleys are on common land, nothing to do with Coillte.

booooonzo · 28-05-2015 10:19pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

As for putting a national mountainbike centre in Sligo, 2.5+ hours from Dublin, in a county with the population of Blanchardstown, doesn't make sense. Why not build it in Carrick where the EWS was, and close to 70% of the mountain bikers in Southern Ireland?

Makes perfect sense, relatively speaking Dublin is spoiled with 3rock, ballinastoe, djouce so near and then all that Wicklow has. you also then have Rostrevor less than an hour away etc..

A national trail center is designed as a local revenue producing short break destination to give back to a community. attracting domestic and foreign visitors.
Coolaney is on the wild atlantic way and not far from some of the best surf breaks in the world. So saying it doesn't make sense because you would have to drive 2 hours from Dublin is a bit of an ignorant and flippant remark.

I'd be supporting a trail center no matter where it's built in Ireland as long as it's built, not moaning about its location! I've spent the last 5 years travelling the length and breath of Ireland to races and events from Sligo, so always 2hours+ and never complained, but sure some people are never happy! :cool:

Boomchickawawa · 29-05-2015 9:13am

booooonzo wrote: »

Makes perfect sense, relatively speaking Dublin is spoiled with 3rock, ballinastoe, djouce so near and then all that Wicklow has. you also then have Rostrevor less than an hour away etc..

A national trail center is designed as a local revenue producing short break destination to give back to a community. attracting domestic and foreign visitors.
Coolaney is on the wild atlantic way and not far from some of the best surf breaks in the world. So saying it doesn't make sense because you would have to drive 2 hours from Dublin is a bit of an ignorant and flippant remark.

I'd be supporting a trail center no matter where it's built in Ireland as long as it's built, not moaning about its location! I've spent the last 5 years travelling the length and breath of Ireland to races and events from Sligo, so always 2hours+ and never complained, but sure some people are never happy! :cool:

+ 1 on this comment........ Also if you travel to rostrevor you will see that all the events HAVE to be run on the trail centre trails... of which most are terrible! Coillte have been very supportive of the gravity enduro series in roi i cant see them banning the use of off piste trails..... Id hope!!

Tenzor07 · 29-05-2015 9:24am

booooonzo wrote: »

A national trail center is designed as a local revenue producing short break destination to give back to a community. attracting domestic and foreign visitors.Coolaney is on the wild atlantic way and not far from some of the best surf breaks in the world.

Building the National trail centre to attract tourism to the regions and bringing revenue to local regional communities is great of course...

What's also great would be to see Coillte putting some money into maintenance of Ticknock and Ballinastoe near where the vast majority of mountain bikers live.

hans aus dtschl · 29-05-2015 10:20am

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Building the National trail centre to attract tourism to the regions and bringing revenue to local regional communities is great of course...

What's also great would be to see Coillte putting some money into maintenance of Ticknock and Ballinastoe near where the vast majority of mountain bikers live.

It's reasonable that you would argue for centralization of services, particularly given your own geographical location. I'm much further from Sligo than you are, but my argument is simply thus: not everything in the country needs to be in Dublin.

It's not a big deal to have to travel a few hours from Dublin to a national centre of excellence: I believe the national centre of excellence for rowing, for example, is in Cork.
And the "population of users" argument ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Tenzor07 · 29-05-2015 10:45am

Put "the service" where the majority of users live. Or make it so very good that people are willing to travel.

Take Ballyhoura, it's the south's best Coillte trail centre, I don't know of many(any) who travel down there from the Dublin area unless there is a big event on there..

booooonzo · 29-05-2015 2:28pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Put "the service" where the majority of users live. Or make it so very good that people are willing to travel.

Take Ballyhoura, it's the south's best Coillte trail centre, I don't know of many(any) who travel down there from the Dublin area unless there is a big event on there..

Afaik there are plans to link 3rock to djouce or ballinastoe and to become a national centre.

Coolaney Is some of the largest Coillte owned single land area with no restrictions or objections. That counts for a lot.
Ballyhoura was the first of it's kinda. We've learned a lot from that and this won't just be another trail centre not worth travelling for. 80km of fun flowy single track!

Anyway if you want a service where you live...do something about it.

Tenzor07 · 29-05-2015 2:31pm

booooonzo wrote: »

Afaik there are plans to link 3rock to djouce or ballinastoe and to become a national centre.
Coolaney Is some of the largest Coillte owned single land area with no restrictions or objections. That counts for a lot.
Ballyhoura was the first of it's kinda. We've learned a lot from that and this won't just be another trail centre not worth travelling for. 80km of fun flowy single track! Anyway if you want a service where you live...do something about it.

I hope you(Coillte?) have learned a lot from Ballinastoe.

Linking B'stoe to Djouce should be quite interesting, first i've heard of it.

Anyways, as i've said I hope they get the funding for Coolaney, will be great for tourism in the region

rizzodun · 29-05-2015 4:36pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Building the National trail centre to attract tourism to the regions and bringing revenue to local regional communities is great of course...

What's also great would be to see Coillte putting some money into maintenance of Ticknock and Ballinastoe near where the vast majority of mountain bikers live.

I don't think the Forestry commission in the UK put too much money into maintenance of trails, are the funds not raised and trail maintenance completed by the local MTB users and clubs, with only some funding coming from government schemes?

Why don't the local clubs approach Coillte about fund raising for maintenance?

rab!dmonkey · 29-05-2015 9:39pm

rizzodun wrote: »

I don't think the Forestry commission in the UK put too much money into maintenance of trails, are the funds not raised and trail maintenance completed by the local MTB users and clubs, with only some funding coming from government schemes?

Why don't the local clubs approach Coillte about fund raising for maintenance?

My hunch is that Coillte is so hostile to building trails for anyone but the lowest common denominator that clubs avoid dealing with them to avoid giving anyone the impression that Coillte's trails are a satisfactory solution for their members. That and the fact that most members of MTB clubs would use the Coillte trails for little else than as a link to the technically challenging trails that they actually enjoy using, so they have little interest in seeing them maintained to a high standard.

rizzodun · 29-05-2015 11:31pm

rab!dmonkey wrote: »

My hunch is that Coillte is so hostile to building trails for anyone but the lowest common denominator that clubs avoid dealing with them to avoid giving anyone the impression that Coillte's trails are a satisfactory solution for their members. That and the fact that most members of MTB clubs would use the Coillte trails for little else than as a link to the technically challenging trails that they actually enjoy using, so they have little interest in seeing them maintained to a high standard.

That's counter productive, it seems people expect Coillte to develop and maintain the trails, they just provide the land. The local club here have access to the woods and build and maintain the trails themselves, with no funding from Coillte, they communicate with Coillte regularly and any new trails they check with them first. Plenty of great trails have been built and maintained for all types of riding. The last local XC race had some people saying that they couldn't believe it wasn't a round of the NPS.

I think that if more clubs dealt with Coillte rather than just trying to build some trails in the hope they aren't destroyed there would be a lot more trails and riding areas all over the island.

If people want places to ride they may well have to be prepared to engage in fundraising and volunteering with trail builds, too many people expect to have everything handed to them it seems.

xxyyzz · 30-05-2015 8:53am

rizzodun wrote: »

That's counter productive, it seems people expect Coillte to develop and maintain the trails, they just provide the land. The local club here have access to the woods and build and maintain the trails themselves, with no funding from Coillte, they communicate with Coillte regularly and any new trails they check with them first. Plenty of great trails have been built and maintained for all types of riding. The last local XC race had some people saying that they couldn't believe it wasn't a round of the NPS.

I think that if more clubs dealt with Coillte rather than just trying to build some trails in the hope they aren't destroyed there would be a lot more trails and riding areas all over the island.

If people want places to ride they may well have to be prepared to engage in fundraising and volunteering with trail builds, too many people expect to have everything handed to them it seems.

The problem is that it depends on the good will of the local Coillte manager.My local club couldn't get the time of day from Coillte. They had most of their trails destroyed and were banned from riding on Coillte land and this would be considered a very responsible club. Coillte are primarily a timber company who just happen to manage the land where mtb takes place. They have no joined up thinking or strategy for the promotion of mtb.

xxyyzz · 30-05-2015 10:11am

There's huge scope for private mtb enterprises in this country imho. Look at the massive success of bikepark Ireland with a relatively small hill. They've done a fantastic job and they'll host the xc nationals this year also. There are so many farms in this country with wooded hillsides lying idle, it would just take some entrepreneur spirit to get them off the ground.

Tenzor07 · 30-05-2015 6:04pm

xxyyzz wrote: »

The problem is that it depends on the good will of the local Coillte manager.My local club couldn't get the time of day from Coillte. They had most of their trails destroyed and were banned from riding on Coillte land and this would be considered a very responsible club. Coillte are primarily a timber company who just happen to manage the land where mtb takes place. They have no joined up thinking or strategy for the promotion of mtb.

Absolutely spot on there xxxyyyzz!

And just because the lads up in Union Wood in Sligo have a good arrangement with the local Coillte forestry manager it doesn't mean they can go around accusing other clubs/MTB'ers of being lazy/layabouts!

Although I hear that the big cheese at Coillte is due for mothballs soon, so hopefully someone without a vendetta against MTB'ers will takeover at the top of the organization!

Eamonnator · 30-05-2015 6:54pm

In the last century, I ran races, including Irish XC and DH Championships in a Coillte forest. I had a reasonable relationship with the local forest manager. As long as forest was left litter free and with no artificial jumps, he was happy.
He retired. I approached his successor, who told me, that there would be no further races in that forest. I attempted to go go above his head, by approaching head office. I was told, basically, that as long as the local manager had objections, I was on a loser. As far as I know, since then, no Coillte sanctioned event has taken place in that wood.

rizzodun · 30-05-2015 7:02pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Absolutely spot on there xxxyyyzz!

And just because the lads up in Union Wood in Sligo have a good arrangement with the local Coillte forestry manager it doesn't mean they can go around accusing other clubs/MTB'ers of being lazy/layabouts!

Although I hear that the big cheese at Coillte is due for mothballs soon, so hopefully someone without a vendetta against MTB'ers will takeover at the top of the organization!

I wasn't accusing of other clubs/MTB'ers being lazy/layabouts, and I am most certainly not speaking on behalf of any club, only pointing out that they do have a good relationship here with Coillte.

You yourself posted that you wished Coillte would fund maintenance of the trails of Ticknock or Ballinastoe, but why don't the locals maintain it?

I'm sure there are probably Coillte managers that may be still behind the times, but I don't see that as a reason to moan and complain about the areas that have made progress.

These managers may well not want to deal with local people, but maybe if enough people got behind it and included some local politicians they might get more traction?

rizzodun · 30-05-2015 7:06pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

In the last century, I ran races, including Irish XC and DH Championships in a Coillte forest. I had a reasonable relationship with the local forest manager. As long as forest was left litter free and with no artificial jumps, he was happy.
He retired. I approached his successor, who told me, that there would be no further races in that forest. I attempted to go go above his head, by approaching head office. I was told, basically, that as long as the local manager had objections, I was on a loser. As far as I know, since then, no Coillte sanctioned event has taken place in that wood.

Just on this Eamon, did you approach yourself or as part of a club? Do you think that if you had formed some sort of group and maybe included local government you might have gotten further with this? When was the last time you approached him? Do you think you may get a better response now?

Eamonnator · 30-05-2015 7:10pm

rizzodun wrote: »

Just on this Eamon, did you approach yourself or as part of a club? Do you think that if you had formed some sort of group and maybe included local government you might have gotten further with this? When was the last time you approached him? Do you think you may get a better response now?

I even tried to get Cycling Ireland involved, nothing worked.
I'm afraid my interest has waned. I cannot imagine the situation, where I would bother again.

JBokeh · 30-05-2015 9:12pm

rizzodun wrote: »

You yourself posted that you wished Coillte would fund maintenance of the trails of Ticknock or Ballinastoe, but why don't the locals maintain it?

I had a few nice trails made in one of the local forestry's to me years ago, I'd say they started by deer and we started riding it on scramblers, a few weeks later went in with a quad, MTB and shovels built up a few medium berms, a couple of dips and a jump over the space of a couple of evenings, I think the loop was 7 Km of downhill, 4 of which was single track and 13 of a forest road climb back to the top.

We got about 6 months use out of it, and brought another one of the lads out to it, he is the type that slows down by locking the back wheel and just dragging it down the trail, the damage that one guy did in 2 runs of it, was worse than the wear 6 of us had put on it in 6 months. A few trees came down on it that bad winter 2 years ago, and we didn't really want to bring in chainsaws in case that was frowned upon.

If Coiltie were to pay people to maintain a heavily trafficked area of MTB trail it would be a full time job for them, thats why the ballyhoura trails are pretty much gravel that has been flattened down with a whacker plate, fairly low maintenance for them, but a bit boring for someone that has a bit of a taste for natural trails made of mud and roots.

Theres some built around cork city too, I think they were made by a club down there with permission from the land owners, provided they keep within a set of rules that were agreed on. I think they have a day or two where the members go out and repair to trail

danceswithwolf · 30-05-2015 9:47pm

Coiltie badly need to put a bit of effort into the Ballinastoe trails. They've really worn down over the last couple of years.

C3PO · 30-05-2015 10:18pm

rizzodun wrote: »

Why don't the local clubs approach Coillte about fund raising for maintenance?

Because the local clubs have no interest in riding the Coillte trails other than as a route from one area of proper mountain biking to another!

Biopace · 31-05-2015 12:43am

Eamonnator wrote: »

In the last century, I ran races, including Irish XC and DH Championships in a Coillte forest. I had a reasonable relationship with the local forest manager. As long as forest was left litter free and with no artificial jumps, he was happy.
He retired. I approached his successor, who told me, that there would be no further races in that forest. I attempted to go go above his head, by approaching head office. I was told, basically, that as long as the local manager had objections, I was on a loser. As far as I know, since then, no Coillte sanctioned event has taken place in that wood.

Hmmm, sounds almost identical to what is currently happening in Clare/Limerick right now.

booooonzo · 02-06-2015 9:02am

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I hope you(Coillte?) have learned a lot from Ballinastoe.

Linking B'stoe to Djouce should be quite interesting, first i've heard of it.

Anyways, as i've said I hope they get the funding for Coolaney, will be great for tourism in the region

Nope, i'm definitely not Coillte but have been dealing with them a lot in recent times and like others it's never too easy.

However you have to remember they are a timbre logging company only at the moment. also they are 'allowing' a lot of land to be used (1500ha in our case) for biking.

maintenance wise, trails should either pay for themselves (showers/bikewash/car park) or use community schemes or have an active bike club willing to keep them in good nick.

However this is based on the trails being good enough in the first place to warrant interest in maintenance i guess

xxyyzz · 02-06-2015 9:37am

booooonzo wrote: »

However you have to remember they are a timbre logging company only at the moment.

I think this is the biggest part of the problem, there doesn't seem to be a realisation at the top level in this country about the potential of adventure tourism which is massive imho. New golf courses seems to be about as far as their imagination extends. If we are good enough to host a round of the enduro world series then we should be promoting the sh*t out of mtb in Ireland. Wales and Scotland are absolutely light years ahead of us. Coillte aren't equipped to do this, I get the impression that mtb is more of a hassle for them than anything else.

Having said all that, I'm not a big trail centre fan myself anyway. Ballyhoura does nothing for me, its very sterile and dumbed down. There are miles and miles of quiet natural trails near me with plenty of tech sections and I'd head to bikepark Ireland for sh*ts and giggles the odd weekend.

ford2600 · 02-06-2015 9:50am

booooonzo wrote: »

However you have to remember they are a timbre logging company only at the moment. also they are 'allowing' a lot of land to be used (1500ha in our case) for biking.

They are the largest land owner in state; other than mtb they have a massive responsibility for preserving habitat for out wildlife, amentities for the general public etc

Through weak willed politicians they have been left get away with not managing their huge land bank to the benefit of the state in general.

A private company when it comes to selling of road frontage for sites at height of boom(or entire land bank to Chinese if they got away with it) and a state company when it comes to cosy protected jobs.

That so semi state manager can, at a whim, inhibit the responsible development of outdoor activities is a national disgrace.

Where I use mtb, usually solo or with one or two others I have to compete for space with deer hunters(in season) who aren't too happy to see me. Typically they pay 10,000 per annum for the right to hunt; guess who'll get squeezed out when bikers and hunters comes into conflict.

Tenzor07 · 02-06-2015 10:06am

ford2600 wrote: »

They are the largest land owner in state; other than mtb they have a massive responsibility for preserving habitat for out wildlife,

Based on what I've seen and heard, I don't think Coillte have any responsibility for preserving habitat for wildlife.
They practice clear cutting, and leave forests looking like the aftermath of World War 3! There's a lot of logging in the Ticknock area right now so they've been busy widening the fireroads and adding a lot of hardcore for the heavy trucks and machinery..

I'm pretty sure it's the National parks and Wildlife service(Npws) who look after anything outside of commercial forestry.

ford2600 · 02-06-2015 10:09am

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Based on what I've seen and heard, I don't think Coillte have any responsibility for preserving habitat for wildlife.
They practice clear cutting, and leave forests looking like the aftermath of World War 3! There's a lot of logging in the Ticknock area right now so they've been busy widening the fireroads and adding a lot of hardcore for the heavy trucks and machinery..

I'm pretty sure it's the National parks and Wildlife service(Npws) who look after anything outside of commercial forestry.

Most of the country's farmers are signed up to environmental proetection schemes, but the company managing state lands get a free pass? Of course they have a massive responsibility; the disgrace is the politics that allows they to walk away from it.

NPWS look after national parks

CramCycle · 02-06-2015 10:12am

Who Coillte claim to be:

About Coillte
Coillte's core purpose is to enrich lives locally, nationally and globally through the innovative and sustainable management of natural resources
Coillte is a commercial company operating in forestry, land based businesses, renewable energy and panel products.
The company employs approx 1,000 people and was established in 1988. It owns over 445,000 hectares of land, about 7% of the land cover of Ireland.
Coillte manages its forests to deliver social, economic and environmental benefits.
One of the key areas where Coillte has a positive, measurable impact is in the provision of public goods. Public goods are “non market services” that cannot be traded but are enjoyed by many. These include contributing to national biodiversity, providing extensive recreation opportunities, protecting cultural heritage and improved water quality.
The value of these Public Goods can be measured:
Coillte and the Heritage Council commissioned research which found that Nature and Biodiversity, Landscape and Cultural Heritage together have a value of over €500m per annum in benefit to the Irish people.
Separate research commissioned by Coillte and the Irish Sports Council estimated that forest recreation makes a public goods contribution of €97m per annum.
It was also estimated that the economic activity generated by these visits is in the order of €270m annually – a significant contribution to rural economic development.

Plastik · 02-06-2015 10:33am

To bring this back to a discussion in terms of the general merits of Ballyhoura as a MTB venue, as someone that has only a passing interest in MTB outside of the road season I think that Ballyhoura is a fabulous resource and have traveled to it from Wicklow on day trips a few times - and will continue to do so. Plus there are enough combinations of short and long loops for people that are only trying it out and for younger kids.

I was there again on Saturday with my 11yo and we have built up to 30km through a combination of the Brown, Green and technical loops. Next trip down we'll head for the 35km White Loop. He's delighted with this. Where else would be be able to ride trails of that sort of length without having to resort to mind numbing loops of the same.

From a layman, casual user perspective, I can't speak highly enough of the place.

xxyyzz · 02-06-2015 10:54am

Plastik wrote: »

To bring this back to a discussion in terms of the general merits of Ballyhoura as a MTB venue, as someone that has only a passing interest in MTB outside of the road season I think that Ballyhoura is a fabulous resource and have traveled to it from Wicklow on day trips a few times - and will continue to do so. Plus there are enough combinations of short and long loops for people that are only trying it out and for younger kids.

I was there again on Saturday with my 11yo and we have built up to 30km through a combination of the Brown, Green and technical loops. Next trip down we'll head for the 35km White Loop. He's delighted with this. Where else would be be able to ride trails of that sort of length without having to resort to mind numbing loops of the same.

From a layman, casual user perspective, I can't speak highly enough of the place.

It's grand but TBH it is pretty dumbed down to cater for beginners. There's kms and kms of singletrack with no variation. Ideally there should be sections with options e.g. a descent with a green line for beginners up to a black line for experienced MTBers. More imagination is needed.

booooonzo · 02-06-2015 11:38am

I totally agree with the adventure tourism being missed currently
(i lived in Queenstown New Zealand and seen it first hand how huge it can be and how to do it right)

However, even though we are behind Scotland, Wales and NI in MTB terms they also had the same issues with the forestry in their beginnings.

It won't change overnight, unfortunately.

Coillte will say they fulfil their mission statement by providing access to walkers, families, hunters etc.. and very slowly bikers

They are stuck in their ways and need very high level (Governmental) direction and policy change if they are to change.

from what i have gathered the main fear is insurance and claims, it's this old irish, ingrained farmer attitude of 'keep off my land' purely due to fear and ignorance for the most part.

It's changing but means educating people on the benefits of what we do.

you'd be surprised the amount of people who presume you're talking about MX bikes until you spell it out for them

Ballyhoura trails?

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