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Irish Rail seat reservations - what's the point?!

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    #122
    Jem72
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭Jem72


    In fairness those commuting regularly learn to know what works. I haven't stood on a train for several years. The most annoying thing about reservations is the fact that you can unwittingly sit in a reserved seat. I tend to stick to the 20 minute rule myself - I'll move if it's 20 minutes before departure but if it's closer to departure and there is nowhere obvious to go, I'll politely decline. It's only ever happened a couple of times though as bookings tend to mostly be in one carriage.

    But it is a little silly that every online booking gets an automatic seat reservation. It would be much better to charge a euro extra for a seat reservation or allow an open return in place of seat reservations. A lot of time on the Sligo line, people don't even take up their seat reservations. If a seat reservation is free for an on-line booking, it is only fair that it should also be free for commuters paying 4 grand a year or more for their ticket.


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    #123
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Jem72 wrote: »
    In fairness those commuting regularly learn to know what works. I haven't stood on a train for several years. The most annoying thing about reservations is the fact that you can unwittingly sit in a reserved seat. I tend to stick to the 20 minute rule myself - I'll move if it's 20 minutes before departure but if it's closer to departure and there is nowhere obvious to go, I'll politely decline. It's only ever happened a couple of times though as bookings tend to mostly be in one carriage.

    But it is a little silly that every online booking gets an automatic seat reservation. It would be much better to charge a euro extra for a seat reservation or allow an open return in place of seat reservations. A lot of time on the Sligo line, people don't even take up their seat reservations. If a seat reservation is free for an on-line booking, it is only fair that it should also be free for commuters paying 4 grand a year or more for their ticket.

    :confused: It's not free for an online booking. It costs €5 extra each way.


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    #124
    Jem72
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭Jem72


    iguana wrote: »
    :confused: It's not free for an online booking. It costs €5 extra each way.

    That would be excellent if in the case, but I don't think it is. The last time I booked a ticket on-line to Westport about a year ago, the seat reservation was included in my €9.99 fare. I just checked on the Sligo line for a booking next week and it appears to be included in a €19.99 fare but I didn't go all the way through the process so perhaps they include the fee later. It appears to be the same process as when I last got a free seat reservation.

    It was extra for a seat reservation a couple of years ago but I don't think it is any more on the Sligo line at least. There is a 5 euro charge if you just want to reserve a seat without buying a ticket.


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    #125
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    iguana wrote: »
    :confused: It's not free for an online booking. It costs €5 extra each way.
    booking your seat is compulsory on most tickets booked online, there is no extra charge for this and a random seat will be allocated if one is not chosen.

    walk up passengers and those with free travel can reserve a seat at a cost of €5 per leg of the journey afaik


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    #126
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Jem72 wrote: »
    That would be excellent if in the case, but I don't think it is. The last time I booked a ticket on-line to Westport about a year ago, the seat reservation was included in my €9.99 fare. I just checked on the Sligo line for a booking next week and it appears to be included in a €19.99 fare but I didn't go all the way through the process so perhaps they include the fee later. It appears to be the same process as when I last got a free seat reservation.

    It was extra for a seat reservation a couple of years ago but I don't think it is any more on the Sligo line at least. There is a 5 euro charge if you just want to reserve a seat without buying a ticket.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    booking your seat is compulsory on most tickets booked online, there is no extra charge for this and a random seat will be allocated if one is not chosen.

    walk up passengers and those with free travel can reserve a seat at a cost of €5 per leg of the journey afaik

    Nope. That changed a while back. It's been €5 each way since at least the end of 2014. I paid it several times last December and it was €5 per seat on top of the full fare I was paying. I just checked it on a number of different lines now actually bothering to go the whole way through it so I wouldn't be making a false assumption and it's €5 per reserved seat even though the site initially makes it look like it's €5 to make several reservations.


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    #127
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭wench


    iguana wrote: »
    Nope. That changed a while back. It's been €5 each way since at least the end of 2014. I paid it several times last December and it was €5 per seat on top of the full fare I was paying. I just checked it on a number of different lines now actually bothering to go the whole way through it so I wouldn't be making a false assumption and it's €5 per reserved seat even though the site initially makes it look like it's €5 to make several reservations.

    There is no extra cost, I get the train to Cork a couple of times a month, and it is always included.
    The €5 is only applicable if you have a ticket already, and want to reserve a seat.
    If you select a full fare, and a seat reservation, the system will treat that as booking two seats on the next screen.


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    #128
    Heisenberg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    Jem72 wrote: »
    In fairness those commuting regularly learn to know what works. I haven't stood on a train for several years. The most annoying thing about reservations is the fact that you can unwittingly sit in a reserved seat. I tend to stick to the 20 minute rule myself - I'll move if it's 20 minutes before departure but if it's closer to departure and there is nowhere obvious to go, I'll politely decline. It's only ever happened a couple of times though as bookings tend to mostly be in one carriage.

    But it is a little silly that every online booking gets an automatic seat reservation. It would be much better to charge a euro extra for a seat reservation or allow an open return in place of seat reservations. A lot of time on the Sligo line, people don't even take up their seat reservations. If a seat reservation is free for an on-line booking, it is only fair that it should also be free for commuters paying 4 grand a year or more for their ticket.

    You would politely decline that you move from a reserved seat? I hope you never sit in my seat that I have paid for you would be out on your ear.


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    #129
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,442 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    iguana wrote: »
    Nope. That changed a while back. It's been €5 each way since at least the end of 2014. I paid it several times last December and it was €5 per seat on top of the full fare I was paying. I just checked it on a number of different lines now actually bothering to go the whole way through it so I wouldn't be making a false assumption and it's €5 per reserved seat even though the site initially makes it look like it's €5 to make several reservations.
    I travel Galway to Dublin a couple of times a month. You've no option but to reserve a seat (from what I can tell) be it automatic or picked.
    I've never seen an option "NOT" to reserve a seat and never seen a mention of a fiver each way for a reservation.
    Maybe I am missing something.


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    #130
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    iguana wrote: »
    Nope. That changed a while back. It's been €5 each way since at least the end of 2014. I paid it several times last December and it was €5 per seat on top of the full fare I was paying. I just checked it on a number of different lines now actually bothering to go the whole way through it so I wouldn't be making a false assumption and it's €5 per reserved seat even though the site initially makes it look like it's €5 to make several reservations.

    A return ticket to Dublin next Thursday will coost €19.15 which includes the reservation because you CAN'T book a ticket without getting a seat allocated to you!

    If you just want to reserve a seat instead of buying a ticket online the cost is €5 per leg of the journey for each person.

    351068.png


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    #131
    cython
    Registered Users Posts: 4,758 ✭✭✭cython


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    A return ticket to Dublin next Thursday will coost €19.15 which includes the reservation because you CAN'T book a ticket without getting a seat allocated to you!

    If you just want to reserve a seat instead of buying a ticket online the cost is €5 per leg of the journey for each person.

    351068.png

    Actually, had you captured a wider screenshot, it even says "All tickets include reserved seating where available" when you are selecting the service(s) you want to travel on, which is pretty conclusive about there being no charge to reserve a seat if you purchase online. Obviously reserving a seat with a walk up ticket is a different story.


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    #132
    stephenl15
    Registered Users Posts: 5,885 ✭✭✭stephenl15


    cython wrote: »
    Actually, had you captured a wider screenshot, it even says "All tickets include reserved seating where available" when you are selecting the service(s) you want to travel on, which is pretty conclusive about there being no charge to reserve a seat if you purchase online. Obviously reserving a seat with a walk up ticket is a different story.

    A seat comes free with a ticket booked in advance online, however there is also the option for free travel pass holders to reserve a seat only at a cost of €5.00 each way. Walk on passengers are not guaranteed a seat.


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    #133
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #134
    Jem72
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭Jem72


    Heisenberg1 wrote: »
    You would politely decline that you move from a reserved seat? I hope you never sit in my seat that I have paid for you would be out on your ear.

    That would constitute an assault if you tried this personally. Since I travel so often, I am quite friendly with most of the regular staff on the Sligo line so I doubt you'd be much in luck if went looking for assistance to move me where I was in the right.

    It clearly states in the conditions of carriage that you must be available to board 20 minutes before departure from a terminus. Failure to do so results in the reservation being forfeit. That being said, I'll repeat what I said - I will offer to move if there is an obvious alternative and I won't sit in a marked reserved seat at all.

    In over three thousand journeys between Connolly and Edgeworthstown or Longford, this conflict has happened to me twice. In both cases when I pointed out the reservation was unmarked and that there was another seat, the person involved said there was no need for me to bother packing away my laptop and stuff. Obviously some people are more reasonable than others.

    I think it would actually add to Irish Rail's service offering if they offered people the choice between a reserved seat and an open return with some restrictions on the same day. Since so many people don't take up their reserved seats on the Sligo line, this is something that people don't value. It may be the case that the flexibility is more valued than the seat reservation and everyone would end up happy.


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    #135
    stephenl15
    Registered Users Posts: 5,885 ✭✭✭stephenl15


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    No, incorrect I'm afraid. if they book online the seat comes free with the ticket. However if they already have a ticket ie a free travel pass, they can book a seat online for €5


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    #136
    stephenl15
    Registered Users Posts: 5,885 ✭✭✭stephenl15


    Jem72 wrote: »
    That would constitute an assault if you tried this personally. Since I travel so often, I am quite friendly with most of the regular staff on the Sligo line so I doubt you'd be much in luck if went looking for assistance to move me where I was in the right.

    It clearly states in the conditions of carriage that you must be available to board 20 minutes before departure from a terminus. Failure to do so results in the reservation being forfeit. That being said, I'll repeat what I said - I will offer to move if there is an obvious alternative and I won't sit in a marked reserved seat at all.

    In over three thousand journeys between Connolly and Edgeworthstown or Longford, this conflict has happened to me twice. In both cases when I pointed out the reservation was unmarked and that there was another seat, the person involved said there was no need for me to bother packing away my laptop and stuff. Obviously some people are more reasonable than others.

    I think it would actually add to Irish Rail's service offering if they offered people the choice between a reserved seat and an open return with some restrictions on the same day. Since so many people don't take up their reserved seats on the Sligo line, this is something that people don't value. It may be the case that the flexibility is more valued than the seat reservation and everyone would end up happy.

    You're a right boll*cks aren't you. Igonarance of you!! If somebody reserves a seat and can provide proof of reservation, you must move.


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    #137
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    stephenl15 wrote: »
    You're a right boll*cks aren't you. Igonarance of you!! If somebody reserves a seat and can provide proof of reservation, you must move.

    If somebody has a reservation then presumably they've read the attached terms and conditions at booking, which clearly state that they must be available to take up the reservation 20 minutes before departure.


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    #138
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,562 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    MOH wrote: »
    If somebody has a reservation then presumably they've read the attached terms and conditions at booking, which clearly state that they must be available to take up the reservation 20 minutes before departure.

    Which is a rule that needs to be dropped.

    It's quite ridiculous in this day and age when time is very often at a premium.


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    #139
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭wench


    stephenl15 wrote: »
    No, incorrect I'm afraid. if they book online the seat comes free with the ticket. However if they already have a ticket ie a free travel pass, they can book a seat online for €5

    He's not incorrect.
    The seat reservation option is not just for free travel pass holders.
    Anyone with a valid ticket may pay the €5 to reserve a seat.

    http://www.irishrail.ie/index.jsp?p=118&n=306&a=59


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    #140
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Which is a rule that needs to be dropped.

    It's quite ridiculous in this day and age when time is very often at a premium.

    I agree, but it's still in the current terms.

    It wouldn't be necessary if IE could be relied on to actually reserve the seats, turn on the reservation system when the train begins boarding, and leave it on for the duration of the journey.

    But I fear such basic competence will remain beyond them for years yet.


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    #141
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Jem72 wrote: »
    It clearly states in the conditions of carriage that you must be available to board 20 minutes before departure from a terminus. Failure to do so results in the reservation being forfeit.

    The conditions of carriage do not mention the reservation being forfeit. They also say you need to be available to board, with the previous condition saying you must claim the seat before the scheduled departure. In that case you can say you were available to board but didn't take you seat until a few minutes before departure.


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    #142
    stephenl15
    Registered Users Posts: 5,885 ✭✭✭stephenl15


    wench wrote: »
    He's not incorrect.
    The seat reservation option is not just for free travel pass holders.
    Anyone with a valid ticket may pay the €5 to reserve a seat.

    http://www.irishrail.ie/index.jsp?p=118&n=306&a=59

    Yes exactly. I didn't mean they were specifically for FTP holders. A valid ticket bought online INCLUDES a seat so you would not need to pay the extra €5. The reason you can reserve a seat only is for free travel pass holders and parents with children under 3 who don't require a ticket. Or even for family tickets as these cannot be booked online and only purchased at a booking office.


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    #143
    Chloris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Chloris


    What I can't for the life of me fathom is why they don't just allocate one or two specific carriages especially for the reservations and then let the rest be a free for all. That way, if you know you have a seat booked, you just go into the carriage with the bookings and anyone who doesn't goes to the rest of the train.

    Any particular reason that wouldn't work?


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    #144
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Chloris wrote: »
    What I can't for the life of me fathom is why they don't just allocate one or two specific carriages especially for the reservations and then let the rest be a free for all. That way, if you know you have a seat booked, you just go into the carriage with the bookings and anyone who doesn't goes to the rest of the train.

    Any particular reason that wouldn't work?

    Mainly because there are trains that sell out and these are the ones that have the reservation issues.


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    #145
    Heisenberg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    Where does it say that you forfeit your reservation if you are not in your reserved seat 20 minutes before departure?


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    #146
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Heisenberg1 wrote: »
    Where does it say that you forfeit your reservation if you are not in your reserved seat 20 minutes before departure?

    It doesn't


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    #147
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    Heisenberg1 wrote: »
    Where does it say that you forfeit your reservation if you are not in your reserved seat 20 minutes before departure?

    Section 43.6 of the Conditions of Carriage:
    Passengers at terminal stations who wish to claim their reserved seats must
    be available for boarding at least twenty minutes prior to the advertised
    departure time of the train

    The website Terms of Use says
    ***Please take your seat 20 minutes in advance of departure***

    The passenger charter says
    You should arrive at the departure gate at least 20 minutes before your Intercity train is scheduled to leave

    It doesn't say your reservation is forfeit, but it's pretty clear that it's a condition of reservation that you're present 20 minutes in advance if you want to claim your reserved seat.


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    #148
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,290 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    stephenl15 wrote: »
    You're a right boll*cks aren't you. Igonarance of you!! If somebody reserves a seat and can provide proof of reservation, you must move.

    No personal abuse please

    Do not respond to this post on-thread.

    Moderator
    Jem72 wrote: »
    It clearly states in the conditions of carriage that you must be available to board 20 minutes before departure from a terminus. Failure to do so results in the reservation being forfeit. That being said, I'll repeat what I said - I will offer to move if there is an obvious alternative and I won't sit in a marked reserved seat at all.
    It's not your place to enforce the reservations policy.


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    #149
    Heisenberg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    MOH wrote: »
    Section 43.6 of the Conditions of Carriage:


    The website Terms of Use says

    The passenger charter says


    It doesn't say your reservation is forfeit, but it's pretty clear that it's a condition of reservation that you're present 20 minutes in advance if you want to claim your reserved seat.

    So as Michael said it doesn't. I would imagine this 20 minute rule is for a timely departure for the train.


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    #150
    Heisenberg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    Jem72 wrote: »
    That would constitute an assault if you tried this personally. Since I travel so often, I am quite friendly with most of the regular staff on the Sligo line so I doubt you'd be much in luck if went looking for assistance to move me where I was in the right.

    It clearly states in the conditions of carriage that you must be available to board 20 minutes before departure from a terminus. Failure to do so results in the reservation being forfeit. That being said, I'll repeat what I said - I will offer to move if there is an obvious alternative and I won't sit in a marked reserved seat at all.

    In over three thousand journeys between Connolly and Edgeworthstown or Longford, this conflict has happened to me twice. In both cases when I pointed out the reservation was unmarked and that there was another seat, the person involved said there was no need for me to bother packing away my laptop and stuff. Obviously some people are more reasonable than others.

    I think it would actually add to Irish Rail's service offering if they offered people the choice between a reserved seat and an open return with some restrictions on the same day. Since so many people don't take up their reserved seats on the Sligo line, this is something that people don't value. It may be the case that the flexibility is more valued than the seat reservation and everyone would end up happy.


    Did you just make up the forfeit your seat bit? if your not in your paid seat 20 minutes prior to departure.


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    #151
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,562 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Section 43.5 of the Conditions of Carriage also adds:

    Reserved seats must be claimed prior to the advertised departure time of the train.



    Again, nothing about 20 minutes before departure.


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