Beat this: Dublin Bus stop game

Great OP, a real eye opener.

Given walking pace is about 6kmph then a walker of normal fitness can cover 100 metres in 60 seconds.

AFAIK when Dublin Bikes set up they allowed for never having more than 400 metres between bike stations. They must have done a calculation where they estimated the amount of time by which people wouldn't feel too incovenienced if the bike station they arrived at had no bikes on it to collect. That calculation was 400m which I guess is about four minutes walking time. I've had a handful of occasions where there was no bike at a station but as I know another bike is likely only a four minute walk away then using Dublin Bikes still seems like the best option. If it was six or seven minutes walk away well then you might decide just to get the bus instead.

So if Dublin Bikes works on a system where their stations are 400m apart and its proven to work quite well there's no reason why placing bus stops at least 800m apart wouldn't work equally as well. That way the longest anyone will have to walk is 4 minutes which really isn't a big ask in fairness. It would improve the networks efficiency vastly IMO.

We've had Network Direct and by and large its worked quite well. Now we need Network Efficiency which should be a combination of eliminating stops, Garda enforcement of bus lanes and reducing dwell times through a cashless system and unloading buses through the middle doors when at busy city centre stops.

KD345 wrote: »

The responsibility of bus stop locations transferred to the NTA last year.

Would any better-informed posters know who to suggest to in the NTA that they cull Dublin Bus stops by at least 60%?

richardjjd wrote: »

New stop just installed in front of Concern offices on Camden St. 56m from the stop in front of Daintree, according to Google maps (although it serves different routes!).

Muahahaha wrote: »

Are two stops on the same route 56m apart? If so thats even shorter than the 70m between two stops on the 140 route that Ixflyer pointed out. It is incredible that we have bus stops less than 90 seconds walk apart.

Just on a side note, I think the reason for a lot of these stops is previous routes being amalgamated with duplicity of stops not being adequately removed. Was this because of local poltical interference in the bus system? If so have things changed much since the NTA took over the locations of bus stops or are they still open to interference ?

This is a total red herring - these two stops on Camden Street serve two completely different groups of routes.

It's perfectly acceptable to have two stops for different routes within this distance.

Ideally bus stops on routes should be about 400m apart, but local circumstances may dictate a need for closer spacing, such as in the city centre and in suburban housing estates where people may already have had to walk a reasonable distance to get to the bus route.

I don't think calling for the removal of 60% of bus stops is exactly sensible either - I think some people are a bit too zealous in what sort of bus service they want, which could exclude many older people for example. Don't get me wrong, I certainly think some stops could (and should) be removed, but 60% is going OTT.

Personally I think a full review of bus stops is long overdue, primarily from a safety and design perspective, but this could also incorporate the spacing as well.

There is also a need, as the economy begins to revive itself, to look at potentially reintroducing and increasing Xpresso services from the outer suburbs at peak times to try and deliver a faster service for those customers. Simply physically removing half the stops is not the right answer.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Why would they need to be closer in the city or housing estates? An extra 1/2 minute walk isn't going to affect most people

Read what I said above again.

People may already have walked a not insignificant distance to get to the bus route already due to the way some estates are designed - extending that further is not always the right idea.

There is a balance to be struck here.

Does the 84 still loop into cherrywood and stop on both sides of the r118? If so those stops are only physically 50m or so apart but longer by actual road distance of corse

LeinsterDub wrote: »

We need to stop bending over backwards to help every possible minority to the detriment of the service to the overall whole. The needs of the many and all that. We are talking about an extra 200 metres of a walk

We are actually talking about a bus service here. That's something that is there to serve the entire community, provide a convenient service, and transport people from A to B.

I would entirely agree that there are definitely quite a few stops that could be removed from the network and merged with others, because of their proximity, but I don't think that they come anywhere close to 60% of stops.

There are most definitely circumstances where stops can be legitimately be located less than 400m apart. As I have quoted above, there are estates in suburban Dublin where buses operate along a main road, which then has spine roads joining it, the far ends of some of which can be over 600m away. I don't think that removing stops from the junction of these spine roads and merging them into a stop a further 200m away is exactly "serving the community", where each stop would already be busy at peak times.

You have to look at the individual circumstances of each stop and see what the impact is going to be. You certainly cannot just decide to remove stops with a strike of the pen.

What you are focussing on is getting people from A to B faster. That can be achieved at peak times by reintroducing more Xpresso services, that serve all stops in the outer areas and then operate limited stop to the city in the morning, and back in the evening. There needs to be a mix of services to deliver a proper bus service, between limited stop, local and QBC routes.

I don't see why this should be a Dublin-only game.

In Galway we have the stops outside Mervue Health Centre and Michael Collins Flats - a massive 59m apart! And yes, the 405 buses DO stop at both.
https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/''/St+James+Road+(Mervue+Church)/@53.2818034,-9.0167961,19z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x485b96cc7057021b:0xc2dfbf32de15adba!2m2!1d-9.016655!2d53.281771!1m5!1m1!1s0x485b96cc65a305a7:0x9f4afbfd2c75609!2m2!1d-9.016228!2d53.281442


And I've always been fond of this picture showing old and new bus shelters just metres apart on Coolough Rd in Menlo (I'm not actually sure which one the buses were stopping at: the new one, or the one with the BE sign.

3 stops on Ballinteer avenue. First stop opposite Maxols - next is 150 metres away at spar and then another one 160 metres further down. Served by the 75 and 14 (and the 116?). They could drop the other bus stops and just keep the Spar one as this is a off road bay big enough for two buses.

There are three stops on the other side of the avenue as well but these are more widely spaced.

KD345 wrote: »

Dublin Bus and the council have tried to install a bus gate in Littlepace many times but it has always been opposed. You can't blame the bus company for how a hosing estate was designed and how residents block attempts to improve public transport.

Is there a way to force this through? This penalizes a larger number of users from upper the route (Dunboyne mainly), and this would allow the 270/70 to serve more users from Blanchardstown.

I could see why residents would be opposing opening that road to all traffic, but a gate allowing buses, and buses only, would not create significant disturbance.

Bambi wrote: »

Anyone mentioned 254 and 253 ( I think) outside beaumont hospital? about 0 meters apart

Those stops serve the 27B going in different directions.

stop number 47 & 48 on Drumcondra road.... not even 5 minute walk between them!

Coat22 wrote: »

I really can't see why a bus gate is required. There is absolutely no reason for the bus to stop more than twice in Littlepace, once at the shopping centre and once at the Hartstown end is more than enough. The problem in Littlepace isn't the cul the sac its the number of bus stops - is it 8? Why when they built this place they thought they would need a bus stop every couple of metres is beyond me - its more like a door to door taxi service than a public transport service if you live along that road.

I'm pretty sure a much bigger improvement would come from that bus gate being fitted than removing some of the stops (and directly inconveniencing people even further). Instead, there is no bus priority measures that would help every bus user, all because of the imagined fears of some residents. NIMBYism at its worst.