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Want to replace UPC with best Soarview & Freesat setup

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  • 14-09-2015 10:25am
    #1
    dinneenp
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭


    Hi,
    We have UPC and I was thinking of changing to Sky (€19 pm & €100 cash back offer) but I'd like to see how much it'd cost & how good Soarview, Freesat etc. would be.

    We have tv in 2 rooms; in 1 room I'd like 'as close a substitute to UPC/Sky' as you can get-
      [/
    1. good selection of channels (RTÉs, BBCs, UTV, Channel 4, News channel would be the 'core', some extra channels would be nice. Sports & film channels would be great, even if costs a small bit extra)
    2. ability to record 1 show and watch another
    3. ability to pause, rewind
    4. good EPG
    5. Easy use/good UI
      LIST]

      In the other room I'd go with either just Saorview or else same as in the main room.
      If I do go for 'full' set up in both rooms can I watch different channels in each room- I presume yes? There's be separate boxes but using the same dish.

      Do I need two boxes, 1 for Soarview and on for the other channels?
      Can anyone suggest specific boxes/equipment?
      How slick are the UIs on modern boxes, one of the main complaints I've heard are that they're not user friendly. UPC interface can be annoying (freezes, have to dive deep for functions etc.) so I don't want to go backwards. Are there samples of the UI for them online?
      Anything else to note?

      I'd love to be able to get the information to evaluate and decide this week on which to go for. I know there's various threads for recommendations but I'm creating a new thread as I'm looking for lots of info & want definitive answers.

      I have to check but am presuming that both tvs are saorview compatible.

      Thanks in advance,
      Pa.


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    #2
    winston_1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭winston_1


    If you are paying for sky that will include the Irish channels so you only need one box for that TV. It can only be a sky branded box.

    In the other room you can feed off the one box (so same channel on both TVs) or have a second sky box or if you rely on Saorview get an aerial installed. Depending on the TV you may need a Saorview box as well.


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    #3
    kooga
    Registered Users Posts: 2,882 ✭✭✭kooga


    i have to say €19 x 12 + €30 set up less the €100 cash is good value to essentially get a dish set up and tv for the year for €158. with this offer is multiroom the full €15. The only thing is longterm if you want to go FTA with saorview you will need an aerial as well. Not to sure how much would an aerial install cost.


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    #4
    dinneenp
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    kooga wrote: »
    i have to say €19 x 12 + €30 set up less the €100 cash is good value to essentially get a dish set up and tv for the year for €158. with this offer is multiroom the full €15. The only thing is longterm if you want to go FTA with saorview you will need an aerial as well. Not to sure how much would an aerial install cost.

    If I get sky for a year do I get to keep the dish at the end? And if I go down the soarview/freeview/FTA can I then use that dish? If that's the case then it seems like sense to get Sky for the year.
    I don't know if the multiroom is an extra €15 pm on top of the deal.


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    #5
    kooga
    Registered Users Posts: 2,882 ✭✭✭kooga


    dinneenp wrote: »
    If I get sky for a year do I get to keep the dish at the end? And if I go down the soarview/freeview/FTA can I then use that dish? If that's the case then it seems like sense to get Sky for the year.
    I don't know if the multiroom is an extra €15 pm on top of the deal.

    yes you keep the dish and box

    yes you can reuse that dish for FTA Satellite

    you will still need an aerial for saorview

    the beauty of the sky box connected to the dish is that the box can combine all the channels both uk and irish together.


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    #6
    dinneenp
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    kooga wrote: »
    yes you keep the dish and box

    yes you can reuse that dish for FTA Satellite

    you will still need an aerial for saorview

    the beauty of the sky box connected to the dish is that the box can combine all the channels both uk and irish together.

    Sky here I come!


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    #7
    kooga
    Registered Users Posts: 2,882 ✭✭✭kooga


    dinneenp wrote: »
    Sky here I come!

    stick to the original at €15 pm. don't be tempted to pay the extra for variety as the cash back on that deal is only €30 not the €100 plus its a more expensive package.

    apologies according to bonkers.ie the variety has a €100 cash back offer now


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    #8
    dinneenp
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    Last question - what's the best way to be able to watch sky channels in another room. I don't mind if you have to watch and change channels in the main room. Ideally change channels in 2nd room but not if it means €15 extra pm for multiroom.


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    #9
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    dinneenp wrote: »
    Last question - what's the best way to be able to watch sky channels in another room. I don't mind if you have to watch and change channels in the main room. Ideally change channels in 2nd room but not if it means €15 extra pm for multiroom.

    Sky eye in the other room connected to an I/O link on the Sky box via co-ax cable.


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    #10
    dinneenp
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    The Cush wrote: »
    Sky eye in the other room connected to an I/O link on the Sky box via co-ax cable.

    Thanks. And is there any option so that I can change channels in the 2nd room please?
    Might just go with Saorview but just wondering what options are for watching Sky in 2nd room


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    #11
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Sky eye just delays the inevitable.
    When you eventually go FTA/Saorview you would still need the satellite wiring in the second room and they won't install that without paying multiroom.

    The addition of an aerial later should be very cheap and you can use the same cables.

    I think the VU+ Duo Box is one of the best boxes and is very well supported. You will pay a premium though.

    There are plenty of cheaper options which imo are just as good.
    Here is one I've used that is reduced at the moment

    http://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/Digital-Satellite-Receivers/Gigablue-HD-Linux-Enigma-2-Satellite-Receivers/GiGaBlue-HD-QUAD-PLUS-Linux-Enigma-2-HD-PVR-Digital-Satellite-Receiver-2-DVB-S-S2-2-C-T-T2-cable-satellite-terrestrial

    It will get you full 7 day EPG, FTA channels and record functionality without any problems.
    You could always get a cheaper combo box in the second room.
    The Ariva 253 would be a good option

    https://www.satellitetv.ie/Saorview_Combo_Receiver/ferguson-ariva-253-combo

    I think you have 2 options

    1) Get Sky plus multiroom and then add the Aerial in a year and buy FTA/Saorview boxes.
    2) Pay for the Satellite/Aerial install with cabling yourself and buy the boxes now.

    I guess it all depends on price. The Sky deal looks good if you can get the cost of multiroom down.


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    #12
    dinneenp
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    dubrov wrote: »
    I think you have 2 options

    1) Get Sky plus multiroom and then add the Aerial in a year and buy FTA/Saorview boxes.
    2) Pay for the Satellite/Aerial install with cabling yourself and buy the boxes now.

    I guess it all depends on price. The Sky deal looks good if you can get the cost of multiroom down.

    Thanks for all the information. Last question ( I think)- what's the ROUGH cost of getting a FTA box/Soarview, installed and set up? taking the 2nd box you suggested- €120 & dish & soarview box (to record) & installation costs- would you be looking at €300 or thereabouts?
    Thanks.


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    #13
    kooga
    Registered Users Posts: 2,882 ✭✭✭kooga


    lets break it down i would suggest the install of a dish and and an aerial and wiring to two rooms in and around €200 markish.

    The next cost are the boxes themselves which can vary from a generic combo box for €100 to some of the slick linux boxes and technomates which could cost in and around €300 -€400 including hard drives etc.

    I stand open to correction on these prices.


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    #14
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭dubrov


    The €120 Ariva combo box I mentioned will cover both Satellite (UK) and Saorview(Irish) channels.
    There is no need for a separate Combo box.

    Pretty much all TVs sold in Ireland in the last 10 years are Saorview compatible so for the second room you could just run the aerial cable directly into the TV for the Irish channels.

    So based on Kooga's €200 estimate you'd still be looking at around €300.


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    #15
    dinneenp
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    Hi. Almost there, very last question for now-
    I'm getting sky in main room (good deal for 1 year).
    In second room multiroom would be €180 for 1 year.
    For second room I presume I could use the dish that'll be in place for Sky?
    Then only need to pay 4 box and wiring. Or could I get multi room for one room sky what do the wiring cancel after one month the multi room and then just buy the box?


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    #16
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    dubrov wrote: »
    Pretty much all TVs sold in Ireland in the last 10 years are Saorview compatible
    MPEG-4 TVs started to appear here in about 2008 but even then they it was mostly MPEG-2 Freeview or analogue only sets in the shops.


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    #17
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭dubrov


    dinneenp wrote: »
    Hi. Almost there, very last question for now-
    I'm getting sky in main room (good deal for 1 year).
    In second room multiroom would be €180 for 1 year.
    For second room I presume I could use the dish that'll be in place for Sky?
    Then only need to pay 4 box and wiring. Or could I get multi room for one room sky what do the wiring cancel after one month the multi room and then just buy the box?

    If you can, get the multi room and cancel after a month so that all the required cabling is installed. They may try and lock you into a contract though. You can combine Saorview and Satellite in a single cable.

    When you add the aerial later, it should be very easy to connect it to the already installed cable. You might even be able to do it yourself. You would use something like this on both ends.

    http://www.satworld.ie/satellite-and-terrestrial-combiner-indoor.html


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    #18
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭dubrov


    The Cush wrote: »
    MPEG-4 TVs started to appear here in about 2008 but even then they it was mostly MPEG-2 Freeview or analogue only sets in the shops.

    Cush is correct so make sure to check the TV specs if you plan on using it instead of a box for Saorview


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    #19
    kooga
    Registered Users Posts: 2,882 ✭✭✭kooga


    just to wrap it up

    the multi room will be a 12 month sub so €15 x 12 = €180

    or

    at a later date get a tv aerial and the second room wired up from the existing dish, I assume the lnb on the sky dish will be a quad.

    The question you have to ask is which is cheaper

    multi room for a year plus price of an aerial install

    or later install of this room , erection of an aerial and purchase of a set top box for that room either in the form of a combo box or existing saorview tv and freesat box.


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    #20
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    kooga wrote: »
    just to wrap it up

    The question you have to ask is which is cheaper

    Indeed, so don't invest in one system that will be useless to you in a years time.

    I honestly do not get the whole sign to Sky for a year stuff with the intention of going FTA afterwards.

    Sky boxes do not have dvb-t tuners. They have limited use after a year with no recording and a clunked menu.

    To the OP. A 60cm Sky like dish with Quad LNB will cost you €20. An aerial about €30.

    A Combo box Saorview/Satellite will cost you less than €100 and will have the ability to record via USB. A more expensive Linux Combo box will cost you €150.

    Dont buy twice.


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    #21
    dinneenp
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    Hi,
    So Sky engineer called out, said dish has to go in front of house but he's not allowed onto the roof.
    So he can get someone who will put it in the roof but it'll cost about €70 extra and cable will run externally and then hole near ground level.
    1. Is €70 expensive considering the dish is from Sky (guy putting dish up isn't providing the dish, Sky are)?
    2. Is running the cable externally the standard?
    Thanks again,
    Pa


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    #22
    winston_1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭winston_1


    dinneenp wrote: »
    Hi,
    So Sky engineer called out, said dish has to go in front of house but he's not allowed onto the roof.
    So he can get someone who will put it in the roof but it'll cost about €70 extra and cable will run externally and then hole near ground level.
    1. Is €70 expensive considering the dish is from Sky (guy putting dish up isn't providing the dish, Sky are)?
    2. Is running the cable externally the standard?
    Thanks again,
    Pa

    I would be sending an email to sky asking why the "installer" was only prepared to install the dish illegally (dishes on the front of houses are illegal in Ireland), and that if they want your custom they should send someone competent enough to do an installation within the law.

    jeremy.darroch@bskyb.com or something similar is what you want.


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    #23
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Sky won't insure engineers to install dishes on the roof due to the increased risk of an accident. You would essentially be hiring your own engineer.

    I'm guessing they install the wire on the outside as it is easier than running wire behind walls. I'd get him to show you an example to make sure it isn't messy


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    #24
    winston_1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭winston_1


    dubrov wrote: »
    Sky won't insure engineers to install dishes on the roof due to the increased risk of an accident. You would essentially be hiring your own engineer.

    I'm guessing they install the wire on the outside as it is easier than running wire behind walls. I'd get him to show you an example to make sure it isn't messy

    If sky were prosecuted a few times instead of 90 year old ladies they would soon change their tune and insure their "installers".

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057501076


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    #25
    Get In There
    Registered Users Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Get In There


    dubrov wrote: »

    http://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/Digital-Satellite-Receivers/Gigablue-HD-Linux-Enigma-2-Satellite-Receivers/GiGaBlue-HD-QUAD-PLUS-Linux-Enigma-2-HD-PVR-Digital-Satellite-Receiver-2-DVB-S-S2-2-C-T-T2-cable-satellite-terrestrial

    It will get you full 7 day EPG, FTA channels and record functionality without any problems.
    You could always get a cheaper combo box in the second room.
    The Ariva 253 would be a good option

    https://www.satellitetv.ie/Saorview_Combo_Receiver/ferguson-ariva-253-combo

    Hi interesting post.
    When you say 7 day EPG, I wonder if that's applicable for both Irish and UK channels?

    Furthermore as i'm deaf, I wonder if the boxes above can record programmes with subtitles? Some of my friends have mentioned that their boxes are indeed capable of recording but when they sit down to watch a recorded program, the subtitles don't play.

    Thanks.


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    #26
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭dubrov


    You'll always get a 7 day EPG with Saorview, no matter what box.
    For satellite, you'll need a box capable of running an addon called CrossEPG.
    The Gigablue Quad HD Plus will handle this but the Ariva 253 cannot so will only give you now and next.

    I'd say subtitles on recordings are hit and miss as it is probably an afterthought for a lot of develoeprs.
    I have setup the Gigablue Quad HD Plus for my parents so can check it for you the next time I am out.
    That would be at least until next weekend and I may not remember.
    You'd probably be better off posting on the world of satellite forum and someone should answer you pretty quickly.


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    #27
    budgemook
    Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭budgemook


    Hi,

    Rather than starting a new thread I thought I would post in this one. My mother cancelled Sky a few months back and is not happy with her new service. She has the following:

    - Two cables coming from Sky dish into room 1
    - UHF aerial coming into room 1 (TV does not have saorview)
    - UHF aerial coming into room 2 (TV has saorview)
    - UHF aerial coming into bedroom (TV has saorview)

    She spends most of her time in room 1. When Sky was cancelled some dodgy guy sold her a small TV box and it had premium channels etc but that's not working anymore for most channels and the guy isn't answering his phone. She's agreed not to go down this route any more. I explained what channels are available for free using soarview and UK satellite channels so she would like to get set up on that.

    So I want to get her a good TV box for room 1. The box should:

    - Be easy to set up and use
    - Have EPG - 7 days if possible
    - Support recording. As many combinations as possible but watch 1, record 1 would be okay.
    - Not require retuning or much maintenance at all

    I have looked around a bit. The 3 in 1 combo boxes on freesat.ie look pretty good. The GigaBlue HD Quad + looks very good but is a lot more expensive than the combo boxes. What are the main advantages of it? On the link above, what would be the best options in the drop down menus? I don't really know what the tuners and Enigma firmware options mean. I see that there is a fitted HDD option which is good. Does it need WIFI?

    Can someone recommend a good box that would suit her needs? Also, although the other rooms are fine as they are with saorview, it would be no harm if the box in room 1 supported multiroom - how would that work?

    Thanks


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    #28
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    dinneenp wrote: »
    Hi,
    So Sky engineer called out, said dish has to go in front of house but he's not allowed onto the roof.
    So he can get someone who will put it in the roof but it'll cost about €70 extra and cable will run externally and then hole near ground level.
    1. Is €70 expensive considering the dish is from Sky (guy putting dish up isn't providing the dish, Sky are)?
    2. Is running the cable externally the standard?
    Thanks again,
    Pa

    Planning permission is required for any dishes put on the front of a house.

    €70 extra to put it on a chimney ? So what is a standard install these days ? Surely Sky installers are not sticking the dishes on the front of peoples houses and potentially leaving the householders open to prosecution !

    I am sure a member of ISIA who post here will be able to answer this better.


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    #29
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    budgemook wrote: »
    Can someone recommend a good box that would suit her needs? Also, although the other rooms are fine as they are with saorview, it would be no harm if the box in room 1 supported multiroom - how would that work?

    Thanks

    A gigablue quad would suffice with a 2xdvb-t 2xdvb-s config. This would enable recording.

    However, you want a walk away scenario. You then need to get a simple programmable remote with limited buttons, as the gig has loads (most Linux boxes do) and then program those buttons to the giga.

    You will also need to have autobouquets loaded (this prevents having to re-tune scenarios when stations move). Unfortunately that will not include the Saorview stations. I don't know anyone who has figured out how to combine both yet.

    OR

    If you don't use autoboquets you can simply combine both the sat and saorview channels in one fav list that you can customize to your hearts content. But you will have to re-tune and re-add stations if they move on satellite, which happens occasionally.

    No you do not need Wifi to load 7 day epg. The box can also be programmed to grab the epg data off Sky's openepg transponder on 28.2.


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    #30
    budgemook
    Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭budgemook


    STB. wrote: »
    A gigablue quad would suffice with a 2xdvb-t 2xdvb-s config. This would enable recording.

    However, you want a walk away scenario. You then need to get a simple programmable remote with limited buttons, as the gig has loads (most Linux boxes do) and then program those buttons to the giga.

    You will also need to have autobouquets loaded (this prevents having to re-tune scenarios when stations move). Unfortunately that will not include the Saorview stations. I don't know anyone who has figured out how to combine both yet.

    OR

    If you don't use autoboquets you can simply combine both the sat and saorview channels in one fav list that you can customize to your hearts content. But you will have to re-tune and re-add stations if they move on satellite, which happens occasionally.

    No you do not need Wifi to load 7 day epg. The box can also be programmed to grab the epg data off Sky's openepg transponder on 28.2.

    Thanks for your response. I am certainly looking for something on the simpler side. Maybe I'll look at some of the cheaper boxes with an external HDD and autobouquets installed.


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    #31
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭dubrov


    To simplify a bit, each tuner will allow you to watch or record a single program.
    So to allow simultaneous watching and recording you would need two tuners.
    DVB-T tuners can handle terrestrial signals while DVB-S tuners decode satellite ones.
    So 2 of each would cover all possibilities but most people are happy to have 1xDVB-T and 2xDVB-S as it is unlikely to want to watch/record 2 Saorview channels simultaneously.

    I'm afraid if you want a hassle free box (something you won't want to have to reconfigure constantly) you'll need to spend the money. The cheaper boxes just don't have the hardware to handle running all the functionality you need. They will crash more and need more maintenance.

    You'll need to also use an internal hard drive if you want recordings to be reliable. Recordings to external hard drives are likely to have more issues.

    To be honest, if you want a service comparable to Sky, you would need to be looking at least at a gigablue quad HD Plus with internal hard drive and 1xDVB-T and 2xDVB-S tuners. Go for the OpenVix firmware as well as it seems to be the most bug-free for Irish use.
    WiFi is needed to download software updates and possibly the 7-day EPG. You can also use it for other addons that play RTE player, TV3 player. It doesn't come with Wifi but adding the WiFi dongle will allow this.

    If you just want the channels with basic recording and Now/Next EPG, the Ariva 253 would do the job. It just won't be quite as slick.

    For the other rooms you would need to add a satellite feed if you want the UK channels. If you are happy with Saorview only, jsut connect direct to the Saorview TVs. A Saorview box is pretty cheap as well.

    Just to add, the latest version of autobouqets can now handle Saorview as well as Satellite channels. You just need to select your nearest transmitter when configuring it (i.e. Three Rock for Dublin).


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